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"id": 1391981,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I request hon. Senators to look at the document filed by the Deputy Governor. It is marked “DG” in blue. If you look at page 56, it contains the only document we received from that public participation, being a memorandum written by one Benson Nyakaga Misario, saying that the Deputy Governor should be retired from his office for various reasons which in general amount to abuse of office."
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"id": 1391982,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
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"content": "That memorandum was part of the invite for public participation because public participation said you can bring either written or oral representation. So, the document was delivered to the Speaker and the Clerk as you can see on the face of it at page 56. It was then copied and delivered to the Governor. In consequence, therefore, when the Governor went to the County Assembly, he defended himself on the five counts that I have just gone through plus the issues of abuse of office."
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{
"id": 1391983,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
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"content": "When my colleague, Mr. Ndegwa, says that you should expunge the contents of paragraphs 48 to 49 because it is new material that was not part of the charge, then it poses the question; what was the intention of public participation and what were we to do with it? The notice was served on us and we knew it is an issue we had to respond to. Therefore, we did a response to it. We have responded to it from Paragraph 48 to the last paragraph. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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{
"id": 1391984,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
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"content": "Therefore, we have factually responded to all the things that Mr. Nyagaka has raised. Our main defense is that these are not issues we are responsible for. It is more of in the hands of the Chief Executive, the Governor himself; the question of a budget that had been passed by the County Assembly having been manipulated and changed after the County Assembly had passed it. The issue of the Kisii County budget not having been utilized for the last over 18 months; the issue of the Deputy Governor’s wife being the one who is actually in charge of the county; all those issues are accusations against the Governor, and we had to respond to them. Mr. Speaker, Sir and hon. Members of the Senate, when you go back to reflect on whether you will expunge these paragraphs from paragraph 48, we request that you keep a clear mind about the dichotomy of this issue. If the reason for wanting to expunge is that it was not part of the case at the County Assembly, then that is wrong on the face of it. This is because it was part of the case. They went for public participation, we were served with this document. So, we had to come and respond to it. However, if their argument is that it is not part of the five grounds that Hon. Siocha moved when he was seeking impeachment before, then he asked for public participation, then that is a different issue. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we pray that you please do not expand them merely because, or rather on the ground that it was not part of the case at the County Assembly. It indeed was part of the case at the County Assembly, and you will see it on the face of the documents. You have been asked to remove those documents because they are not relevant. I would like to submit to you, hon. Senators and Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the question of whether those are relevant or not belongs to you. It does not belong to the judgment of the Assembly. It is not the Assembly that says, “We went for public participation. We enjoyed the part where they say, ‘remove the County Deputy Governor because he disrespects the wife of the Governor and he has taken a bribe. We do not we want this, but we want this.’ It is not for them to choose what should eventually come to you. It is for you to determine whether or not they are relevant. I insist that you retain paragraph 48 to the last and determine, at the end of the whole process, whether they are relevant or not. Nobody should take away your--- If I were in court, I would say, your jurisdiction to determine the relevance of that and to apply it in the question of whether or not you agree with the Motion for Impeachment. My colleague was very specific; he says that, for instance, at paragraph 61, there is a reference to the wife and to the Governor, and that those people are not here to defend themselves. We are saying that, that is not the correct position. We are not here to determine the status, the faith, and the situation of the Governor and his wife. We are here merely to defend ourselves. We received a notice from Mr. Benson telling us, that for these grounds, the Governor should additionally be impeached. We just come here to say, no, you should not impeach us for that reason because these are our reasons. If it were to be then the case, that in our defense we are saying that it is not the Deputy Governor who is responsible for the changes in the budget and for non-use of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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{
"id": 1391985,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
"speaker": null,
"content": "budget. If that is the case, that it is the Governor, that's our defense. It is not intended to bring into issue the Governor and his wife. It is merely meant to persuade you that, indeed, is not a ground upon which you should impeach the Governor. We would, therefore, be asking you to determine the question of the place of public participation in these proceedings because that is actually a product of public participation. I would probably just want to mention one thing to you. If you look at volume One of the County Assembly’s bundle, on page 41, they have brought to you the product of public participation as they say, and, what was said at Birongo Ward is something that appears in quite a number of other places where public participation occurred. The second bullet states as follows- “The members also lamented that the Deputy Governor does not respect the County First Lady and, therefore, the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) should be allowed to perform their duty of impeaching him.” The public participation that was initiated by the County Assembly in many places stated that unless the Deputy Governor is prepared to go and kneel before the First Lady he should be impeached. We are not under any obligation to kowtow the wife of the Governor. I would also like to invite you to page 36, on the output of the public participation. In Volume One of the County Assembly bundle, page 36, there is input from Masimba Ward. It is said that there were no members of the public at the venue when the secretariat arrived. Therefore, there was no product of the public participation. However - and this is our case - there has been a continuous, generation and fabrication of documents and materials to incriminate the Deputy Governor. There is a letter dated 8th March--- I am afraid the hon. Members might not have this. There is a letter dated 8th March, 2024 written to Hon. Onsare Monda telling him to come and defend himself. It is written by one of your staff members, Mr. Ogoso. He says that some of the people he shall respond to, at page three is Mzee Shamba from Masimba Ward. There is a public participation report from the county stating that nothing happened, yet you certainly have somebody who has been set up to come and say that this is what Masimba Ward is saying. This is part of the long and false fabrication of materials to incriminate the Deputy Governor. Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Senate, for those reasons, we pray you do not expunge Paragraph 48 to the end. Probably at this point I should just move to the preliminary objection and call it a day. Mr. Speaker, Sir, unlike my colleagues I pray for just a few more minutes. Could I request for about 20 minutes, kindly?"
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"id": 1391986,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(The Clerk-at-The-Table approached the Chair)"
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"id": 1391987,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " I will give you a further 15 minutes."
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"id": 1391988,
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"text_counter": 205,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you say 50 minutes?"
},
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"id": 1391989,
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"text_counter": 206,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katwa Kigen",
"speaker_title": "The Counsel for the Deputy Governor",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"id": 1391990,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Laughter)"
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