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{
"id": 1392721,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392721/?format=api",
"text_counter": 633,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, in consideration of the National Security Council Act, noted very good points. I agree with the Committee that these are issues touching on security that need to be ironed out within the Executive. Once the Executive agrees on how the National Security Council (NSC) should be constituted, who the members would be, how the appointment of the National Security Advisor will be done and what the role of that office will be, they can always re-introduce whatever the Executive may want. Hon. Murugara will tell you that, as the Committee considered this Bill, it was not clear what the Executive really intended to do with this particular law. Therefore, by mutual agreement, we agreed that this can be re-considered in another Bill. I am sure that since there is another National Government Coordination (Amendment) Bill that is on the way, there is an opportunity, if they want to entrench the Office of the National Security Advisor, to expand The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1392722,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392722/?format=api",
"text_counter": 634,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "the NSC or make amendments to that, they can use it or any other Act. It can also be an amendment to the National Security Act to rectify some of the things that may be achieved through this Bill. Therefore, when we get to the Committee of the whole House, we will propose amendments in line with the joint committees’ report to amend and drop some of the proposals in this Bill. With those many remarks, I beg to move and request the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, the one and only Member for Tharaka Constituency, Hon. “Sir” George Murugara, to second."
},
{
"id": 1392723,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392723/?format=api",
"text_counter": 635,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Rachel Nyamai): Hon. Murugara."
},
{
"id": 1392724,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392724/?format=api",
"text_counter": 636,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to second the Second Reading of the National Government Administration Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.73 of 2023). I fully associate myself with the observations and debate by the Leader of the Majority Party when moving the Bill. To start with, it is important that Hon. Members of this House get hold of the Committee Reports. The Reports by the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs are two: the main report and an addendum. It is important for Members to get these reports and read them so that they understand exactly how the Committee reasoned before it came to the decisions it made. It is also important to point out that there is even a dissent by Hon. Otiende Amollo. Whoever is keen can look at it. It is important that this is debated in both ways. These laws are especially very important because they touch on security and administration of our country. We did not have problems with the Assumption of the Office of the President Act. We agreed to most of this apart from observing that we had difficulties with the Office of the National Security Adviser, which does not exist but it was to be formed under this law. We agreed to increase the number of persons to represent the President-elect to six. When it came to the amendment of Section 2 of the National Security Council Act to introduce the National Security Council Committee, we had difficulties because it was actually being introduced by Section 5 of the proposed amendment. The problem we had was about the constitutionality of the proposed committee. It is supposed to be a committee of the NSC but we were legislating that members who are not members of the NSC sit in the committee. The net effect would be introducing new members who are not members of the NSC to sit there and make security decisions. One such person is the National Security Advisor. Sub clause 3 seeks to make the secretary to the NSC to become the secretary of the committee. That may be the case in reality but that office is not constitutional. We rejected the whole of Clause 5 and went to Clause 7, which again we were not able to approve because we could not find the constitutionality of the office. That is why it is proposed that if we are to create the office, we may have to look at other laws including the National Administrative Laws. From there, we went to Section 28 on the Office of the Attorney General’s Office in which it was proposed that the National Seal be removed from there and kept by the Head of Public Service. Unfortunately, it was agreed unanimously that the custodian of all the legal instruments of the country is the Attorney-General. Therefore, it would be improper and unwise to move the National Seal. There may exist other seals in the country, including the Presidential Seal. We do not have a problem with them being held by other persons in accordance with whatever law. However, when it comes to the Republic Seal, this, like all the laws of the country, must be kept by the custodian of those laws. From there, we went to the National Government Coordination Act 2013. This is where the Office of the Chief Administrative Secretary (CAS) is proposed. We made proposals to this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1392725,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392725/?format=api",
"text_counter": 637,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": "to make it an office in the Public Service. The appointment is to be done by the Head of State, who is the President of the country, with recommendation from the Public Service Commission (PSC). We removed the requirement that they would have to be approved by Parliament because we never thought it necessary. In any event, we made a qualification. How you qualify to become a CAS is by holding a degree from a recognised university, which makes it quite high in hierarchy. I warn Members of Parliament that they do not have such requirements for their qualification and so, these persons will possibly be placed higher than Members of Parliament in the Government hierarchy. We also gave the other requirements and their responsibilities. They will perform all functions relating to their portfolio as assigned to the office by the Cabinet Secretary. They will also perform any other functions as will be assigned to them from time to time. There was a proposal that they become liaison officers with Parliament. This was rejected on the basis that the persons who are supposed to come to Parliament are only cabinet secretaries. The CAS do not have that mandate. They may come in as observers and they may be sent as messengers but they cannot bring any communication to the House from the Cabinet Secretary or whatever quarters because they do not qualify for that. The Leader of the Majority Party has hinted to the capping of the number of CAS below what was proposed. However, eventually, after debate, the capping was removed. This is because we evaluated this office to show that it is an office in the Public Service, which has the power to create offices and so does the President. Therefore, depending on need, he should be free to make whatever appointments he considers desirable and necessary for effective management of public affairs of the country. They can be 10, 15, 22 or even 40 depending on the exigencies of the offices that the President may be dealing with. At the Committee of the whole House stage, we will introduce some amendments to ensure that this House produces a law that cannot be challenged in court. We are doing this today because there was a court decision which said that these offices were unconstitutional. Indeed, when we looked at this Bill, some of the provisions attributing to these offices may have been in contravention of the Constitution. Finally, we worked on the Office of the Head of Public Service. We debated Sections 2 and 12 of the National Government Coordination Act, on the Office of the Chief Administrative Secretary, so that they can be read together. Section 8, which is the last bit, is on the Office of the Head of Public Service. There was debate on this because many Members felt that the Constitution does not provide for such an office. However, we agreed on the Head of Public Service since he heads the public service from the Office of the President and he is the Chief of Staff. We renamed this as Head of Public Service in the Executive Office of the President. That way, he would appear as if he is the Head of the entire public service when that role is constitutionally vested in the Public Service Commission. We were able to propose his roles amongst other responsibilities and how he would be appointed with the approval of the National Assembly and the President. We said he would be the Chief of Staff for the President, in-charge of administrative functions in the Executive Office of the President. We removed the function of being the custodian of the public seal. This, in our view, is a function of the Office of the Attorney-General. We concluded by saying that he will perform such other functions as may be assigned to him by the President. Eventually, we created the Office of the Chief Administrative Secretary as we concluded the laws we were looking into. Hon. Members, please find some time to read through the Report and acquaint yourself with this debate on the two offices being created. With those very many remarks, I beg to second this Bill. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1392726,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392726/?format=api",
"text_counter": 638,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much, Hon. Murugara."
},
{
"id": 1392727,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392727/?format=api",
"text_counter": 639,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
},
{
"id": 1392728,
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"text_counter": 640,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Hon. Members, bearing in mind that this was handled by two Committees, I would like to give this opportunity to Hon. Tongoyo, Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, to make his contribution."
},
{
"id": 1392729,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392729/?format=api",
"text_counter": 641,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Narok West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. It is good that you have mentioned this because there was less reference made to the same. I take this opportunity to also support the National Government Administration Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.73 of 2023) as moved by the Leader of the Majority Party, who is the sponsor of this Bill, and seconded by my colleague, Sir George. As we all know, this amendment Bill has largely four issues. There is the proposed amendment to the Assumption of the Office of the President Act to include the National Security Advisor; amendments to the National Government Coordination Act, and the National Security Council Act, and amendment to the Office of the Attorney-General Act. First of all, I want to appreciate both Committees – the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs (JLAC), which was the lead Committee, supported by the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. They put a lot of time and commitment to come up with this Report. The issue of the National Seal was unanimously agreed, based on reason, logic, and traditions among the Commonwealth countries, and also as supported by our Constitution. The National Seal should always remain with the Attorney-General. That has been the practice as clearly stated in the Constitution. It was the opinion of the Committees that it should remain as so and should not be changed. You know, when something is working, you should not interfere with it. I think the issue of the Assumption of Office of the President has clearly been stated by the Leader of the Majority Party and my colleague. Of course, the President-elect always needs a helping hand when preparing to take-over. We thought that the membership of three people was little and there was need to increase that membership to six so that it gives him an advantage when preparing for the swearing-in. This was not contested by the committees. We all agreed. On the issue of the National Security Advisor, Members felt that attempting to expand the NSC through the backdoor by introducing an advisor or stranger was unconstitutional. It would have offended Article 240 (2) of the Constitution. This is because the National Security Council Act clearly states the membership of the National Security Council. The members include the President, the Deputy President, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration, the Cabinet Secretary for Defence, the Inspector-General of Police, and the Chief of Kenya Defence Forces. Of course, there was a window in the Constitution that says the National Security Council, at any given time can appoint a secretary. Looking at the Constitution and other prevailing laws, it was the feeling of the Membership of the joint Committee that the Secretary can come from the membership of the NSC. So, on the issue of introducing a sub-committee, the Constitution is very clear. It gives the NSC the mandate and leeway to appoint sub- committees as they see fit. Article 240 of the Constitution goes further to state that if there is need to co-opt any person based on the merits of their expertise, the National Security Council Act gives them the power to do so. We saw it was an offence to the Constitution to introduce a sub-committee through the backdoor. So, the Committee rejected that amendment. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1392730,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1392730/?format=api",
"text_counter": 642,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Narok West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "On the issue of the National Government Coordination Act, it largely talked about entrenching of the Office of the CAS and the Head of the Public Service, who doubles as the Chief of Staff to the Executive Office of the President. We took into consideration the fact that this office has been in existence for a long time. It has had many holders like Nyachae and"
}
]
}