HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, POST, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"count": 1608389,
"next": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=137897",
"previous": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=137895",
"results": [
{
"id": 1395371,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395371/?format=api",
"text_counter": 227,
"type": "heading",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "ADOPTION OF A REPORT ON THE MEDIUM-TERM DEBT MANAGEMENT STRATEGY, 2024"
},
{
"id": 1395372,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395372/?format=api",
"text_counter": 228,
"type": "other",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on the 2024 Medium Term Debt Management Strategy, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 7th March, 2024."
},
{
"id": 1395373,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395373/?format=api",
"text_counter": 229,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Sen. Ali Roba on 19.3.2024)"
},
{
"id": 1395374,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395374/?format=api",
"text_counter": 230,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Resumption of debate interrupted on 19.03.24)"
},
{
"id": 1395375,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395375/?format=api",
"text_counter": 231,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kathuri",
"speaker_title": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13590,
"legal_name": "Murungi Kathuri",
"slug": "murungi-kathuri"
},
"content": " Hon. Senators, Sen. Eddy Oketch had a balance of 12 minutes. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if you are ready, you proceed and consume your time. If you are not, then you can give it to any other Senator who would like to contribute. Proceed."
},
{
"id": 1395376,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395376/?format=api",
"text_counter": 232,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was born ready. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1395377,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395377/?format=api",
"text_counter": 233,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Just to perhaps rekindle our minds about yesterday's conversation, we were talking about this particular Motion that was moved by the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget that I sit in, on how we can deal with debt in the country. I did allude to some conversations yesterday to do with fiscal consolidation, and I want to dedicate my conversations around how, as a country, we can start thinking about serious fiscal consolidation; what are these major drivers that are making us not come out of this debt menace in the country. Just perhaps to redeem some of the areas that I focused on yesterday, the current fiscal deficit that we are looking at in this year’s Budget Policy Statement (BPS) that has been put forward is Kshs703.9 billion. That is the money that the Government is looking at in terms of trying to close that fiscal deficit that it has. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has been proposed in this Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy (MTDMS), 55 per cent of that is going to be borrowed externally and 45 per cent is supposed to be borrowed domestically. I have always held the view that domestic borrowing in whichever form, as long as it goes to the edges of 25 per cent and above, brings the idea of crowding out; where the Government will be borrowing more at an advantage of businesses that are locally in the country than how the businesses will be able to borrow in a commercial setting, where commercial banks will find it more lucrative for them to make quicker money and give more stable loans to the Government than they would ordinarily to businesses. I can attest to this in the sense that even the lower part of the pyramid that this current Government has wanted to focus on in the narrative of the Hustler nation--- If you remember, last year, the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) gave a report on the Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) landscape that we have in this country. The challenge that we had entire last year, and I think we will still face this year, is that in MSMEs, for about Kshs10 that they borrow, they end up defaulting on Kshs6. They are defaulting because the capacity that they have in terms of running a business is not there. Therefore, banks will be dissuaded even more when they realise that these MSMEs cannot borrow more predictably. Therefore, they just become unbankable. As a country, this is something that we must start thinking about. How do we ensure that even before we get to the domestic and external borrowing conversations, we can shrink the fiscal deficit in this country? I talked very passionately about some of these areas that are enticing capital for Government to spend in. I have held the very strong view that we are borrowing money, and it does not go to development. For instance, right now, we are ranging between 65 and 68 per cent of our national Budget going on recurrent budgets. We are just financing a budget that is not on development. If we continue borrowing, as a country, in order to eat, buy Panadol for workforce and to just consume, then we shall end up in trouble. I have been sitting in the Standing Committee of Public Investment and Special Funds (CPIC). In the Committee, we have observed a serious problem with regards to pending bills and consumption that mirror the national levels. In fact, counties are facing a situation where if they do not learn from the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1395378,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395378/?format=api",
"text_counter": 234,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "conversation that we are having in this House on debt management strategy; they are going to reach a point where the pending bills are going to be more in terms of nominal value than the equitable shares that they are getting. We are going to wake up one day and find our counties in a lot of contract pressure from suppliers that need their money paid. The suppliers in the counties come on the basis of a contract. If there is one thing that the Constitution of Kenya and our laws protect is contracts to investors, suppliers and anybody who ends up getting into a dealing with any form of Government, whether national Government or county government. From where we are seeing ourselves heading as a country, the counties must start learning from this MTDS conversation in the Senate and Parliament in general. Counties are facing a serious challenge in terms of their own fiscal consolidation. Just to give you a perspective, currently, counties are spending on domestic travel, subsistence and hospitality. These areas are gobbling a lot of money from counties to the extent that the expenditure in some of these areas could be used to pay some of the pending bills. We know that in the national Government, as we try to raise money, the ordinary revenue from different Eurobonds and grants from external sources, the first charge has always been nationally paying for this debt. In fact, I remember last year, there were some weeks that the national Government was paying a whooping Kshs100 billion per week in debt. Our counties are going to start facing a situation where they pay the first charge of their money to suppliers in terms of pending bills, and rightfully so. If the counties and the national Government do not pay our suppliers, the common people in this country who are working day and night to supply goods and services to our Government, we shall be killing this economy. This is because without guaranteeing payment to these suppliers, the young people in this country that are working to supply goods and services to Government, then there is no enterprising economy that can go on. Therefore, this conversation should be larger. The idea of fiscal consolidation should be a larger conversation that we are having both at the county and national level. Otherwise, that is what ends up pressuring the national Government to keep adding taxes that sometimes do not make sense in whichever way you think about it. Even the pressure about the Affordable Housing Bill that we had here, was all the effort of the Government to see how to solve the housing equation for areas that they did not have their own money to put up the housing. Therefore, you end up forcing the common mwananchi to put their money into this fund because you cannot raise it by yourself. It ends up being another additional tax burden that they already have. If we do not solve this issue of Government expenditure, we will still have a problem in this debt management strategy. Lastly, I invite the House to start keeping the National Treasury to account with the data points that it has forwarded to this House with regard to shrinking that debt to GDP ratio. There is desire that by 2029, they are hoping to reduce it all the way to 55 per cent. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1395379,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395379/?format=api",
"text_counter": 235,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "They made a commitment of this formula, moving us from a numerical value last year to this ratio value. However, since last year, we have not had an engagement, not at the Committee nor at the House level. The Ministry has not given us quarterly data on how they are going about it, the adjustments on the GDP index projections that we are seeing or the kind of debts that we are taking in terms of concessionary debts, which we have this particular month, so that we ensure we are on track. By the time we were closing December last year, the debt to GDP ratio stood at a higher level than where we found it at 70 per cent because there is no proper monitoring by this House. Therefore, I want to invite the House to pay a lot of attention to the National Treasury figures that have been given in this MTDS. It is a proper oversight and update to this House, so that we can tell the country that the number of indices in terms of debt that we are taking from different places can be dealt with. Alongside that, we cannot sit pretty on the idea of the €1.5 billion eurobond that was floated the other day because it did not come as a factor in the debt management strategy. It came as a factor in the business cycle in the United States of America (USA), where the US Government showed an interest in reducing the interest rates on the Dollar. That pushed the markets to adjust. One of the observations of the Committee was that this act brought confidence to investors to put some dollars into our economy and bolster tourism. This is not a sustainable indication of stability in our foreign exchange and the value of our Kenya Shilling. As a House, we must monitor this in the next few months and ensure that it does not put us in danger, where we keep on borrowing because we are borrowing against the Dollar. Should any bump happen, especially after the US elections---"
},
{
"id": 1395380,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1395380/?format=api",
"text_counter": 236,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kathuri",
"speaker_title": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13590,
"legal_name": "Murungi Kathuri",
"slug": "murungi-kathuri"
},
"content": " Thank you. Next is Sen. Maanzo."
}
]
}