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"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402151/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"id": 13599,
"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
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"content": "Senate Majority Leader; that somebody is holding a law in his hand that is going to regulate your business and he starts by saying, he does not understand that business."
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{
"id": 1402152,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair]"
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"content": "[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]"
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
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"content": "This is why I encourage people to look very carefully at the people they send to the Houses of Parliament. This is because at the end of the day, if you have somebody with a law-making power who does not understand your business, it is very easy for that person to legislate you out of business. I am sure the Senator for Nakuru County understands exactly what I am saying. I have very serious concerns about the sort of country that we are trying to create. We are creating essentially a ‘nanny state’; a state where, we are considered children who need to be looked after every single hour of the day. What we eat and drink, where and how we sleep, who we go out with and how we party is regulated. I mean, we are becoming too much. We are regulating everything. At the end of the day, there is a reason there is an age of majority. If I want to go for Aluta, Sen. Karen Nyamu, I am a grown-up spending my own money. What business do you have as a legislator in my life? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is one of those other legislations. I speak as a person who has won money on numerous occasions on account of Arsenal losing. I also want to confirm that I have placed a bet on tonight’s game against Bayern Munich because I know Arsenal is going to lose. So, as a friend to the Members of this House, I encourage you to make a little money today because Arsenal is going to lose again."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kathuri",
"speaker_title": "The Deputy Speaker",
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"legal_name": "Murungi Kathuri",
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"content": " Sen. Sifuna, there is a point of order from Sen. Nyamu. Proceed."
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"content": "Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I presented my issue with Aluta in this House. It is about our young people. Is the Senator for Nairobi City County in order to imply that I am trying to regulate grown-ups from partying whenever they want to? The comeback that we are about to put up, will silence him forever."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kathuri",
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"legal_name": "Murungi Kathuri",
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"content": " Sen. Sifuna, you cannot bring issues to do with Arsenal without bringing a substantive Motion. Proceed."
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
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"content": "Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, do you want me to bring a substantive Motion to discuss Arsenal? The point that I was making is that this is something that the Senate Majority Leader alluded to, some of these things are personal choices. Although this facility is available for everyone, not everybody engages in gambling. However, what we should not do, I have seen this very worrying trend where we want to demonise and criminalise everything such that ‘ Sherehe’ is being painted as something very evil and that it is somehow targeting young people. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"content": "Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have laws in our books to prevent operators of a club, just like this law that we are debating this afternoon. It has restrictions on the age limits of the people who can participate. There is a restriction on the age of persons who can enter into a club in Nairobi or anywhere else. Having the rules there should be sufficient for us not to criminalise the activities. We are trying to make sure that the activity is conducted safely and does not endanger the lives of people or, in fact, jeopardise the future of young people. I went through the Fourth Schedule to ascertain that, in fact, this is a function that can be properly undertaken by the national Government. If you look at the submissions by the Senate Majority Leader, I think it is one of the speeches that have earned him applause from our side. This is because he has reinforced things that we have been saying about legislations that come before this House. Not least among them is the need for leaders; MPs and Members of committees to read Bills before passing them. I was very happy to hear him say that. This is because some of us have been sounding like madmen when we insist that in this House we must consider, read and be given sufficient time to debate Bills. I am very happy that the Senate Majority Leader is echoing those sentiments, so that we are able to debate and consider these Bills. I also do not know where some of us get the moral authority to condemn the young people who have also learnt from us. That money can be made in easy ways. We have developed a society that encourages easy money. We cannot be the ones to condemn people for placing a bet and trying their luck. All we need to do as a House is to make sure that the activity is properly regulated. I was trying to read through this Bill and compare it with the existing legislation on betting, lotteries and gambling, to try and see if there are any differences. I was not catching too many of those differences. Let me start my analysis of the Bill with Clause 5. One of the problems I have always had with some of the legislation we pass in various sectors is this requirement of local ownership. It has been argued for and against. I am a strong believer that you unknowingly end up dissuading people from investing in your own country if you put up restrictions such as this. If you look at Clause 29 of the Bill, there is a requirement that for you to be given a license to conduct this gambling business in the country, 30 per cent of your company has to be ceded by a local person. It is very difficult. I remember the discussions during the Energy Committee inquiry into the high cost of electricity. It is not always easy to find somebody who has the same vision as you in business and is ready and willing to put up the resources that are required for you to be able to undertake that business. It is also not easy for you to find somebody who will not abandon you along the way. I think you have seen in the betting industry, especially online sports betting, famous companies that started this have ended up disintegrating. I do not want to mention names. This is because of the squabbles amongst shareholders who were basically yoked together against their will because the law requires that you have a certain local shareholding. If you go to Clause 68(2) of the Bill, this is something that Sen. Cherarkey was worried about. I can see that it has provided that a person licensed to carry online The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1402160,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"content": "gambling activity shall conduct activity under a gambling control system approved by the authority. The authority cannot approve a system under that subclause unless you, as the licensee, provide amongst other things, at subclause 2(g), responsible advertising. What he was concerned about is something I think the legislation has already anticipated and provided for. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Clause 69 of the Bill, there is a definition of when online transactions begin and end. There is a minimum number of days provided for your payout to be made. The concerns by Sen. Cherarkey that you can win money and the betting firm refuses to remit that money is something that has also been anticipated in this particular Bill. I believe it has also been properly taken care of. I would want someone to explain to me the rationale of the minimum betting in Clause 71. The minimum bet has been set at Kshs20, which is inclusive of a saving component. If you bet Kshs20, there is an amount of money that is set aside as savings for you by the authority. The minimum bet by the authority is set at Kshs20. I would want some clarification from the Committee during the debate on what that is about. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you go to Section 73(6), you will see the need for us to not appear as if there are gaps in legislation when it comes to protecting young people. In that section, an operator is made to require proof of age of majority prior to the registration of every player. You cannot register as a player on an online betting site without having produced proof of your being of age of majority. For me, other than some of the concerns that have been raised by the Senate Majority Leader on the adequacy of fines for some of the penalties that have been prescribed, I believe that this is one of the few pieces of legislation that has come before this House that I have minimum problems with. I also encourage us not to be in the business of demonizing everything and making everything appear unholy and ungodly, especially when it comes to choices that are being made by grown people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the feeling of Parliament is that a person of 18 years or any other age should not probably be exposed to some of these things, it is very much in order for us to require even a higher age. If we say that for someone to participate in gambling, he or she has to be above 30 or 40 years old, it is possible for us, as a House, to do this. However, I do not condemn without asking myself what the systemic problems that have given root to the abuse of some of these practices are, with some people ending up addicted. The underlying socioeconomic factors are the things that we, as a House and leaders, have to address. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, someone who completed university 10 years ago and has never got any opportunity to be employed anywhere, they have degrees and yet, they need to eat and a place to sleep, who are you who has failed to provide that environment where they can sustain themselves and pay for their expenses? Who are you to judge that person when they decide that if they make Kshs50, they are going to put Kshs20 on Arsenal losing this afternoon? It is not right for us, as leaders, especially when we have not addressed the socioeconomic challenges, to judge people and say that the people who engage in gambling are evil. Who are you, who has never provided any opportunity for people to be employed to judge a person who has nowhere to go on Monday morning? There is no The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
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