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"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
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"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
"slug": "cherarkey-k-samson"
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"content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not look for a time in my life here on the Floor that Sen. Sifuna would be defending you, but that one is said and done."
},
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"id": 1402612,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
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"content": " Are you saying I am one of those who are feeling guilty?"
},
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"id": 1402613,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402613/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
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"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
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"content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is just a euphemism; a saying that, there are people who are afraid, the guilty are always afraid. I did not mention any name, even the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402614,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402614/?format=api",
"text_counter": 113,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
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"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
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"content": "HANSARD can bear me witness. However, if it is misunderstood, I withdraw that statement and replace that people--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, why is Sen. Sifuna smiling today? He has been told that Uhuru Park cannot be used for political rallies. I hope he is aware. I replace this by stating that everyone within the rank and file of running of Parliament, including ourselves at the Committee level, should be ready to answer questions. We are asking these questions for the sake of our welfare. While moving this Bill, I want to indicate that our business is lawmaking. Let us play this role as we give Members of Parliament an opportunity to do their job. In the proposed amendment in this Bill, the Senator of Kiambu had an impeachment procedure, Bill. As we wait for the Bill to come, this proposed amendment will increase the threshold for removing a Member of the County Executive Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, being the governor emeritus of Kilifi County, Sen. Mandago and Sen. Ali Roba having also been governors, understand what it means to have stability and prediction regarding the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs). This Bill is just rationalizing with the national legislation. If you indicate ‘one- third,’ it means if you have 80 members in an Assembly, 10 members could sign a motion and remove the County Executive Committee. This Bill is rationalized by national legislation. There is a threshold before you impeach or have a vote of no confidence against a Cabinet Secretary. We want to rationalize, so that we can bring stability. In as much as we oversee county governments and other independent institutions, our goal is not to stifle the flourishing and expansion of devolution. We want stability and predictability, so that we can oversee things with ease. The proposals in this Bill do not mean the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) will always have the power to summon the CECMs', Chief Officers, and directors of various departments within the county Government structure to appear before them. We are putting in place a game with rules. We are putting a stopgap, so that the law is not open to abuse. Imagine if only a third of 365 Members of the National Assembly were required to pass a vote of no confidence against a Cabinet Secretary, how many Cabinet Secretaries would have gone home? Are there Cabinet Secretaries who are supposed to go home? This will be an abuse. Section 40 of Act No.17 of 2012, which is proposed to be amended, talks about removing members of the executive committee. The grounds have been laid. Section 40(2) says that a member of the county assembly, supported by at least one-third of all the members of the county assembly, may propose a motion requiring the governor to dismiss a county executive committee member on any of the following grounds— (a) gross violation of the Constitution or any other law; (b) incompetence; (c) abuse of office; (d) gross misconduct, or (e) if convicted of an offense punishable by imprisonment for at least six months. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402615,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402615/?format=api",
"text_counter": 114,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
"slug": "cherarkey-k-samson"
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"content": "Section 40 (3) (a) states- “If a motion under subsection (2) is supported by at least one-third of the members of the county assembly— (a) the county assembly shall appoint a select committee comprising five of its members to investigate the matter.\" We need to rationalize this threshold. The removal of a CECM, the vote of no confidence, impeachment, and the right to recall are political processes that try to bring accountability to our offices. When you swear an oath in Parliament, you swear to uphold the rule of law. In another realm, this is a way of checks and balances. One of the ways of doing this is removing somebody incompetent in office. Sometimes, you could reprimand, recall, give show-cause letters and interdict. I thank the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations, led by my senior, Sen. Abass, for doing a good job on these amendments. We propose deleting \"one-third\" appearing after and replacing it with \"Majority.\" This has been used before. In part (a), we remove the \"one-third” to put into a majority. The County Assembly of Nairobi has around 80 members. The majority will be 50 to 60 MCAs who sign for the removal. This will ensure the stability of your cabinet. I am told there is a viral video of the Speaker of the Nairobi County Assembly trying to hug a Member of the County Assembly forcefully, and it has caused consternation across the nation. We advise MCAs not to hug people forcefully because it can cause a lot of consternation. People such as Sen. Orwoba were up-in-arms on social media over that issue. Most MCAs fear the governor, but do not fear CECMs, chief officers or the directors. They would rather go for low-hanging fruits. As the governor of the region, they could end up undermining and frustrating your development agenda. Part B is deleting the words \"at least one-third\" and substituting them with \"majority.\" The parent Act states that – \"(6) If a resolution under subsection (5) (b) is supported by a majority of the members of the county assembly— (a) the speaker of the county assembly shall promptly deliver the resolution to the governor.\" Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need members to grasp what we are saying. This Bill proposes that the CECMs should be subjected to principles of natural justice. The CECM has a right to appear as we do in the Senate. The accused appears and defends themselves and may have a legal representative. These are the principles of the right of representation. The Parent Act has provided that – “5(b) substantiated, the county assembly shall vote whether to approve the resolution requiring the county executive committee member to be dismissed.\" We are amending subsection six by deleting the words \"a majority appearing after the words \"supported\" with \"at least two-thirds.\" The threshold should be very high to ensure due diligence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1402616,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402616/?format=api",
"text_counter": 115,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
"slug": "cherarkey-k-samson"
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"content": "Mr. Speaker Sir, you have been a governor, while Sen. Sifuna is a Member of the County Public Accounts Committee, as I am. We know that it is hard to have a county assembly clerk who has survived in the seat for a long time, unless that clerk is a unique creature. This is because the threshold for removing the clerk is low. On the issue of CECM, as a governor, you need stability to ensure that your CECMs are not intimidated. Several county executives, chief officers and directors in various departments within the county structure live in fear of being undermined or targeted politically. You know that there is a lot of political witch-hunt in these offices. For you to recall a Member of Parliament through the right of recall, is not as easy as many people want to imagine. Senior learned friends, Sen. Faki and Sen. Maanzo, will state that it is a herculean task. When Sen. (Dr.) Mwaura, the current Government Spokesman, Sen. Omanga alias Mama Miradi, the late Sen. Prengei - may his soul rest in peace - during the \"war\" - had been removed by the Jubilee Party under the arrangement of “handshake,” it was hard to remove them, yet they were nominated. You can imagine a recall of an elected person. Our stopgap measure is that we are so protected, so that we are not exposed as opposed to appointive positions. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is the essence of this Bill. This is a straightforward amendment Bill. I want to ask my colleagues to ensure that we espouse the issues of national values and public power. Article 10 of the Constitution provides for the national values and principles applicable to State officers when exercising public power. These values and principles include good governance, integrity, transparency and accountability. One of the means of ensuring accountability in the exercise of public power is oversight of members of the executive by the legislature at both levels of government. If you may recall, the County Executive Committee Members (CECM) appear both to the county assemblies and the Senate. Therefore, as per Section 40, the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2023 provides for the procedure for the removal of the members of the county executive committee. However, cognizant that the office of the CECM is established by the Constitution and noting the adverse consequence of removal by impeachment of a member of a county executive, the threshold for voting for such a removal in the Act are low. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this House we have a live example, a testimony by the name “miracle” Senator of Kiambu, Sen. Thang’wa. He knows this and I hope that he will have a chance to say something about this Bill because he is in the House. I know he has sponsored another Bill on the Impeachment Procedure Bill, so that he can give us the experience. The reason we are calling him a “miracle Senator” is because in his other life as CECM, he had fought many battles, including being removed during Governor Waititu’s era. If you remember, there was a governor in this county called Waititu “Baba Yao,” and you cannot miss him on the streets of Nairobi. He is a friendly man. He faced tribulations in that there were people at some point who had planned for Sen. Thang’wa not to be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"id": 1402617,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402617/?format=api",
"text_counter": 116,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
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"content": "elected. However, he became a miracle Senator by going through that tribulation, and hence this Bill. When you recall somebody or impeach them, it is almost like threatening him not to be elected. Even Governor Sonko, the immediate former popular Governor of Nairobi City was impeached. The consequence of him being impeached is so painful. You have to stay out of office for more than 10 years. If Governor Sonko was to even contest as governor for Mombasa, he would have won and become the governor of Sen. Faki at that point in time. However, that is the pain of being impeached. These are the things we want to cure, such that by the time you are impeached, you should have committed a serious offence and sin against man, God and the Constitution of Kenya. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. This is a straightforward amendment and I want to ask my colleagues to allow us to process as much as possible. With your permission, I beg to move and request the Chairperson, Sen. Abass, one of the wisest Senators on the Floor of the House, to second me."
},
{
"id": 1402618,
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"text_counter": 117,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abass",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13587,
"legal_name": "Abass Sheikh Mohamed",
"slug": "abass-sheikh"
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank my friend, Sen. Cherarkey, for giving me that kind of title. I think he is in a very good place and I hope to meet that standard. As the Chairperson of the Committee of Devolution, we have gone through all the Acts and laws. We found there is a lot of lacuna in the law, which needs to be changed or improved. As the Mover rightly said, the CECMs are actually people of high calibre. Some of them have come from other ministries, the private sector and some are people who were running their own businesses. However, when they are appointed, they work in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation, such that they cannot deliver their work as required. Whatever qualification they may have, they are at the mercy of the politicians, especially the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) and the governor, who is the appointing authority. We felt that the threshold of a third does not give somebody security to work comfortably in the way one should work. Therefore, as you are aware, this equally happens to the deputy governors. They also experience that problem. Today, as I speak before this House, we have 21 cases where the deputy governors are actually being threatened with removal from office. Many speakers and clerks are also under similar threats. If we continue with the same trend, then devolution will not work properly. People will continue being intimidated. This business of trying to impeach people also encourages corruption and that is why we are losing a lot of money in the counties. As a Committee, we felt that we need to change some of these laws, so that at least we can have job security for all the members who are working under the county. For instance, the removal of a governor requires a two-thirds threshold. So, the CECMs as the highest executives next to the governors and the deputy governors, also need to have security for their work. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, this House has to safeguard devolution and the staff have to be safe from interventions, so that at least they can deliver. I beg to second, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Proceed, Sen. Maanzo."
}
]
}