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{
"id": 1402631,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
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"content": "exercise our power of impeachment, that power must be seen to have been exercised fairly and effectively. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, even as we seek to enhance the threshold of removal of CECMs, it is also important for them to perform their roles effectively. Some CECMs in most counties are not diligent in their work because they have not delivered in their various portfolios. We cannot continue sustaining such people and make it difficult for MCAs to remove them. Some of them may be close to the governor and, therefore, removing them becomes a problem. We need to look at both ends. We should enhance the threshold, but at the same time, how do we make them accountable to MCAs? Our role here is secondary oversight. We also need to help MCAs to perform their role of primary oversight effectively. One way is by making CECMs accountable to county assemblies. I look at it from both perspectives. Perhaps the Mover of this Bill needs to look at that fact. On one hand, we are making it difficult for MCAs to remove a CECM, but on the other hand, we could be encouraging impunity in our counties. It could become difficult to remove incompetent CECMs or those who just refuse to do their jobs for one good reason that they are friends of the governor. I think we need a balance. I support this Bill, but on the other hand, I also encourage that we look at ways of enhancing primary oversight for MCAs. One way is to make sure that CECMs are also accountable. In my county, for example, most of them are invited to appear before MCAs, but they ignore the summons. The MCAs cannot do much because these people are friends and relatives of the governor. A lot needs to be looked at from that perspective, so that we do not just cripple MCAs, but also make them effective while at the same time ensure that we maintain fairness to CECMs. At some point, we had said that we need to fast-track the impeachment law. However, every time we finish an impeachment process, we somehow forget about it. Even as we discuss this, I encourage that we look at that law, so that we have a proper law that guides the process of impeachment. The Senate Majority Leader has said that we are making many amendments to the County Governments Act. I also think the same applies to the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. Perhaps it is time we had a holistic view of some of these laws that are attracting many amendments such as the Powers and Privileges Act, the PFM Act, the County Governments Act and--- I have forgotten the other one. I will mention it if I remember. We should have a holistic approach of these laws in order to reduce the many amendments, which are making the whole thing untidy. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, now that the Senate Majority Leader has talked about the building, whereas I agree with what Members have said, it is also important to question why that project has taken long and exceeded the budget. These things should not be swept under the carpet. I was a bit perturbed when I heard the Speaker of the National Assembly cautioning Members that we should not discuss this matter. Parliament is a House of free speech. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we cannot be intimidated not to talk about our welfare here. We cannot be intimidated! We have to talk about it. Someone was saying The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402632,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402632/?format=api",
"text_counter": 131,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
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"content": "they want to see how Parliament will oversight itself, but the relevant Committee should do that. They should look at this matter On one hand, I agree on the suitability of that office. I have been to that office allocated to me and I have never had an office like the one I have been given."
},
{
"id": 1402633,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Laughter)"
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{
"id": 1402634,
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"text_counter": 133,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
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"content": "I want to move into that new office like tomorrow, but at the same time, I am questioning the other concerns being raised by the Members and the general public on the length of time and cost of the project. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill."
},
{
"id": 1402635,
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"text_counter": 134,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Orwoba Magoma Gloria."
},
{
"id": 1402636,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402636/?format=api",
"text_counter": 135,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I had formally requested to be referred to as Sen. Gloria Orwoba. I do not know whether they forgot that name in the middle, the one that I do not want. I rise to support this Bill by Sen. Cherarkey. I have the privilege of coming from the corporate background. I have worked in various industries, the field of architecture and construction, production and the creative industry. One thing that is usually clear from the corporate world is that institutional memory is key and valued. When I look at how at some of these county governments are run with a high turnover of members of staff, then this is something we have to legislate, and I am happy that Sen. Cherarkey has brought this Bill. A County Executive Committee Member (CECM) is a very senior position and has many responsibilities. They are tasked with the duty of preparing county policies, budget planning and implementation of all the bylaws that are passed in the county assemblies. They are also there to give reports of the operations and the goings-on of the county governments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, these kinds of responsibilities are roles that should be protected and should not be taken as casual labour. Hence, moving the threshold from a third to two-thirds is not something we should do with the County Governments Act, but it needs to be looked at. This is because a look at how we are impeaching our Cabinet Secretaries, their threshold is a quarter and it needs to be amended. At the end of the day, it is not about whether 10 people or a handful do not like an individual, but it is about sustaining the operations of that county government. Some of the advantages of retaining staff members, and this is my experience from the corporate world, it reduces lost knowledge. It takes a long time for a new employee to come in and build relations so that they can collaborate with stakeholders, and when they are ready to effectively implement their tasks, you call for transfers and impeaching of the CECMs. That has been a big hindrance to devolution. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not sure whether this Senate is aware that after we impeached the Deputy Governor of Kisii County, where I come from, it has been a headache, a political one and a continuity headache because the Governor has proposed a name and he wants to move on with ensuring that the services are being provided to the people. However, because of that impeachment, many issues have mushroomed and we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402637,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402637/?format=api",
"text_counter": 136,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "have a section of politicians running to the courts ensuring that the next Deputy Governor is not impeached. Therefore, we need to understand that it is not only the impeaching of that person in office, but what happens next has a huge effect on the services being delivered to the people. It is sad that until today, more than a month after the impeachment, my County of Kisii, has been unable to swear in the nominated Deputy Governor. Perhaps when Sen. Cherarkey is done with this one, because he has a history of knowledge on these kinds of Bills, I challenge him to also bring some amendments that will ensure that once the Senate, the ‘Upper’ House has executed a matter as grave as impeaching a governor or a deputy governor, there should be no other legal loopholes that are being explored by rogue politicians that will make the people of that county, for instance, Kisii County, not get a replacement for the impeached individual, in this case, the Deputy Governor. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as this Bill is being tabled, one of the things I would have as an amendment is on continuity. We are talking about from one-third to two- thirds, and that is okay. We have raised the threshold. However, in the event that the threshold has already been raised and a CECM is still impeached, we will need a transition plan that is within a legal framework. This is because sometimes you have a governor wanting to get rid of their cabinet and it takes up to five or six months because of all the loopholes of people running to court. There has to be a piece of legislation that is brought to the ‘Upper’ House, meant to protect devolution, to ensure that devolution is working. The business of impeaching CECMs, governors or deputy governors should also be accompanied with the business of continuity. I hope I am making sense. There has to be framework even if we are guided by the number of days. However, we have to make that process more efficient by legislating on what happens next after that impeachment. I have heard my colleagues say that we are only impeaching governors and their deputies and not anyone else. If I am not wrong, the National Assembly that deals with all oversight issues of the national Government has a Motion to impeach a Cabinet Secretary. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there should be a first time for everything. I truly hope that the Motion in the National Assembly will be taken seriously and if there are grounds enough to impeach the Cabinet Secretary, because the issue of fake fertilizers is something we do not take lightly, let it be an example. This is so that other Cabinet Secretaries who are taking their appointments lightly will understand that they might have favour from God and the appointing authority, but when it comes to oversight, the National Assembly and the Senate are not here to give favours. We are going to do our work as it is and give a strong message. I am glad that we are discussing only impeaching governors and deputy governors, and not their cabinet secretaries. We should even be asking why we are not impeaching Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) of state agencies. Sometimes, you look at the work we do in these committees. We are constantly calling in CEOs of state agencies and our business is just inviting them to explain this or that. However, we should legislate on a threshold like how many times you should be called because your Ministry or the institution you are running to ask you what is happening. At one point, we will need to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402638,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "have a way to impeach these people. There is a misconstrued notion that some of these Cabinet Secretaries have favour or are the favourites of the President, and they think they can get away with anything. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a fallacy. You can be the President’s favourite, but as long as you are not working or delivering to the people, he is very clear and he keeps saying that he has not appointed you because you are a friend, but because you are supposed to deliver to the people. When I look at this piece of legislation that Sen. Cherarkey has brought, I think it should be scaled up to cover many other people who should be impeached.We probably need to look at those State agencies in a manner that if they affect county governments, the impeachments should be carried out here. This is one of the moments where I suspect the President requires that we also do our work as legislators, as Members of these two Houses carrying out oversight, to ensure that if anyone is sleeping on the job, we do not have to wait for him to reshuffle the Cabinet or drop someone. We can just do our work here as the holders and protectors of devolution. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not want to comment on the Bunge Tower, but I want to encourage my colleagues to do the work that we have been given here. Some of us have been conducting this work without offices. I have not had an office given to me by the Senate. Therefore, now that you are being allocated offices, it will make your work easier. However, I must say this carefully. My background is in architecture and when I looked at how the use of space in that building was crafted, someone slept on the job or someone with fake architectural papers was given that job to design. Some offices do not have windows. In some offices, you have to sit under air conditioning for all the hours. We put in four hours in the Chamber in the afternoon. Some of us are in committees from 9.00 a.m., and we also have to see the electorate. How will you be sitting under the air conditioning? When I see Sen. Cherarkey raising concerns, I can tell you that those concerns are valid. I know that my area Member of Parliament from Bobasi Constituency in Kisii County is involved as a quantity surveyor. I can tell you that coming from the field of construction, with a background in architecture, we need to ask for a proper audit of the monies that were paid to each contractor, from the architect, the quantity surveyor, to the person who supplied those lifts. You cannot be waiting for lifts for 15 minutes. I was there yesterday. I stood there pressing all the buttons on that floor waiting for a lift, which took me about 15 minutes. It is not that we want a soft life, but things must work. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very happy to have been allocated an office there. I have seen the office and from a person who has come from no office at all to an office, I appreciate that at least my office has a window. I cannot complain, but point out that as legislators with different delegations of people to address, I have a staffer who deals with sexual reproductive health and rights, periods and menstruation. I am sharing an office with a person who wants nothing to do with those things. All my guests who will be coming there with menstruation cups and sanitary towels et cetera will be forced to interact with those members of staff. What was the necessity of forcing legislators who have nothing to do with each other's constituencies to share an office; at the cost of Kshs9 billion and how many years later? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
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"speaker": null,
"content": "Truly, if we are a House of oversight, we must start within ourselves. If there is money that has been spent that we cannot see from the auditor, starting from my MP in Bobasi Constituency as the quantity surveyor, they should be called to order. Let them refund that money. You cannot be billed for services that you never provided. If they have already spent that money -we are talking about asset recovery and the other institution that we were questioning here - we are willing to also take back the assets that they have acquired through the proceeds of this particular project. With those few remarks, I will be there tomorrow to launch the office because as much as I criticise, as I have said I have not had an office for 20 months plus. I am happy to have an office. Thank you."
},
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"text_counter": 139,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Proceed, Sen. Mohammed Faki."
}
]
}