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{
"id": 1402671,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402671/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Chute. Sen. Syengo."
},
{
"id": 1402672,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402672/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Beth Syengo",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to speak to this Bill. I congratulate Sen. Cherarkey, whom I usually call Nandi’s finest. I usually call him that. When there is cheap or weak threshold for removing CECMs, then they become grounds for corrupt governors to deal with those they feel are not dancing to their tune. It is important that there is a proposal to increase the threshold from one-third to two-thirds, so that there are good grounds to remove a CECM from office. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when a CECM is working under fear and is not sure how long they can remain in office, they may not perform their duties well. This amendment will make them accountable as they perform their duties without fear, and they will deliver. As the Senate, we are to protect and take care of devolution and then it will work. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402673,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402673/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Beth Syengo",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I am also concerned about the independence of county assemblies. How I pray that the Mover of the Bill will include their independence. When they have their financial autonomy, they will perform duties effectively. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is important that we have clear thresholds of removal from office for public servants. When political differences are used to remove a governor or a CECM from office, it is not right. I will give the example of hon. Governor Sonko, who was removed from office under unclear grounds. Maybe, it was because of political interests or personal hatred. It is a pity that the young man of this country cannot serve in any other public office. I repeat that it is important to have clear grounds and we should increase this threshold for impeachment. Our duty as Senators in this House is to make sure that Kenyans are served effectively. If there are people who feel they have been removed from office because of victimization, such as hon. Mike Sonko, what are we telling the young generation, which is looking at taking up leadership positions in this country? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to add my voice slightly on the intimidation of our staff and their sacking, just for making Kenyans know that things are not done right in the Assemblies and Parliament. When the media brought up the issue of the incomplete Bunge Tower, that is when things were done hurriedly. Some of us who had been suffering in squeezed offices were then relocated to other offices. I cry for justice for those staff members who were victimized because they allowed the media to expose what was hidden. As many of us have said, let us clean our house first. Let us do things right so that we may have the authenticity to speak of rot and other bad things in other institutions. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to finish by saying that I strongly support this Bill. I look forward to having a strong and good Bill that will be used when moving an Impeachment Motion for a CECM or even governors. I support."
},
{
"id": 1402674,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402674/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Proceed, Sen. Mungatana."
},
{
"id": 1402675,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402675/?format=api",
"text_counter": 174,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to support this Bill. First, I want to congratulate the Mover of this Bill, Sen. Cherarkey, for shifting the attention of this Senate. Since we came in, we have focused a lot on governors and discussed deputy governors, but we have not really engaged on the CECMs or the ‘ministers’ at the county level. This is a good opportunity for us to discuss the ‘ministers’ at the county level. I fully support the protection of the ‘ministers’ at the county level. Increasing the threshold for removal of ‘ministers’ at the county level makes that office respected. Respect and protection is critical for the performance of their duty at the county level. We, in Tana River County, have had the sad experience of having a CECM who has gone for a formal engagement and then the driver tells her, “I have been asked to take the car back by the governor.” So, the CECM finishes her work and finds that she has no car to take her back to the station because the governor has ordered that the vehicle be taken back to the station. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402676,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402676/?format=api",
"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The lack of respect and the lack of protection for CECMs has hampered the execution of their duty. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this amendment that gives focus on the offices of the CECMs in our county is a good amendment. In fact, I dare say it is a historic amendment because, many years to come, the office of these ‘ministers’ will be highly respected. These are people who formulate policies that determine how we live in the countryside and determine how our lives will happen when we formally retire from public service. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the amendment that we have made; the law that we are writing in this House today, will serve this nation very well 40 to 50 years from today. As of now, since they have not really asserted their presence, these CECMs are treated like appendages of governors, and this should not be the case. I remember in my older life when we served under President Mwai Kibaki, Ministers used to have full-delegated authority. When a Minister said that a road would be built or he came to your constituency and said they would start the construction of a bridge the following year, they never used to suffer the humiliation of supplementary budgets. Currently, your programmes are removed or wiped out. You cannot become a CECM or Cabinet Secretary who is just picking salaries and not executing a single duty. For us to return honour, respect and authority to the office of the CECMs in the counties, we need to pass this amendment. For us to be on the right side of the history of devolution, we need to pass this amendment, so that we can give power and authority to the CECMs to execute their functions. Even when they disagree with the governors, but they are doing the correct thing, we should support them. This Bill is a step in the right direction. In the Senate of the future, we should have laws that specifically deal with the authority of CECMs. This amendment is a good beginning, but we need to protect them, so that they are able to execute their duties. When they sit down, write those programmes and propose budgetary allocations, it should not be so easy for governors to just bring a supplementary budget and wipe off the entire development vote from the CECM, taking it back to special programmes of the office of the governor, leaving the CECM without a single cent of development vote. We are not being fair to the spirit of devolution in this country. We should have a law that protects them so well that when the governors push them to do the wrong things, they are protected. This Bill today is a beginning. It is protecting the CECMs against the force of the county assembly. We are increasing the threshold for their removal. However, we need to have another law on the other side that also protects CECMs from the threats of governors who want to use them to do the bad things. I can name a few CECMs in these counties who are extremely respected. Some have served for a very long time in national Government and they have retired back home. They have no interest in making money. They are contributing to their county when given this position. Some governors who have foresight have even picked professors. I know of two professors who served as CECMs in some of the coastal counties, not that they did not have good jobs where they were, or could not raise good money wherever they were The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402677,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402677/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "working. They wanted to contribute to their counties and the development of the spirit of the devolution. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you can imagine a very good civil servant who maybe served as a Principal Secretary (PS) or a Director, whose contract came to an end after three years at the national Government. He is then taken to serve as a CECM. A professor who is a lecturer at the university is tapped to come and serve as a CECM. Such a respected professional is then treated like an extension or person of no consequence within the administration of a county. It is unfortunate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my prayer is that we have started well by giving this office some protection. However, we must also create further protection from the side of governors. We are creating good protection for the CECMs from the side of the county assembly from this law. However, as we write this law, we must also think of creating protection for the effective management of counties or from the side of governors. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I support this, I believe it is on the right side of the history of devolution that, for the first time, we have focused on CECMs. My prayer is that we will write a full law on how CECMs should be protected, how they will carry out their functions, and how they can make a solid contribution to the management of counties and the spirit of devolution. With those many remarks, I beg for support."
},
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"id": 1402678,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402678/?format=api",
"text_counter": 177,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Members, there being no other Senator seeking to contribute to the Bill, I call upon the Mover, Sen. Cherarkey, to reply."
},
{
"id": 1402679,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402679/?format=api",
"text_counter": 178,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
"slug": "cherarkey-k-samson"
},
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will make it precise. I would like to start by thanking colleagues who have contributed to this Bill. I am happy that this Bill has received the necessary input and comments from Members. Any suggestion of improving this Bill is welcome. You can bring ideas to enrich it and even amend it for the better. The ultimate goal is to ensure that we enrich, widen, deepen and flourish devolution. I thank colleagues led by Sen. Mohamed Abass, the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations, for agreeing that it will ensure stability in our counties and ensure our professionals are protected. As Sen. Mungatana said, you may have a senior person with a wealth of experience, only to subject them to unpredictability. Sen. Abass has also been challenged as the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations for coming up with an omnibus review of the County Governments Act. It has been long since 2013, when devolution started following promulgation of the 2010 Constitution. Therefore, it is important to take stock of the entire Bill in terms of devolution. As Sen. Cheruiyot suggested, we should not do a review for the county governments only. We should review all laws on devolution. It has been more than 10 years. We now know what works. I also thank Sen. Maanzo. I agree with him that we should not allow it because sometimes it perpetuates political witch-hunt. If the threshold of impeachment of a CECM is low, that can be a ground for a political witch-hunt. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1402680,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402680/?format=api",
"text_counter": 179,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13217,
"legal_name": "Cherarkey K Samson",
"slug": "cherarkey-k-samson"
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"content": "Sen. Cheruiyot said that the threshold is okay. He proposed that we should review all laws on devolution. Sen. Osotsi said that we need to strike a balance, and I agree and thank him. Sen. Orwoba said that we need to enhance impeachment proceedings and the transition. I agree and welcome those ideas. Sen. Faki is in full support. Sen. Seki talked about stability of the counties. Sen.Wambua, the Senate Deputy Minority Leader, talked about assessment of impeachment procedure, which I agree with. If the Senate Majority Whip takes long, any Member should pick it up, so that we have decency. Sen. Thang’wa gave his testimony. We were lucky that we had a testimony by someone who has gone through an impeachment in a county assembly. Those were insightful comments. He is also the sponsor of the Impeachment Procedure Bill. I want to assure him that when it comes up, we will support him. Sen. Kavindu Muthama said that we should try to protect both the primary oversight role of MCAs, while at the same time, ensure that it is maintained. She proposed that we have a mirror-like glow, where national legislation should reflect other jurisdictions. Sen. Chute talked about the need to fight corruption and have MCAs welfare. You are aware that I am the biggest champion for that. I am happy the President directed that we need to review and look at the welfare of MCAs, not only their salaries and emoluments, but also their welfare and mileage allowances. He has said it takes two days to go through the ward. Kilibwoni ward in Nandi is one of the largest. From Kemeloi, Maraba to Songhor/Soba, which is one of the biggest wards. You can imagine the type of car required. Let us look at the salary disparities. Under labour laws, when MCAs started, the basic salary was around Kshs140,000 to Kshs200,000. However, the basic salary is now Kshs80,000. In contrast, the Speaker of the County Assembly and the CECMs are earning over Kshs450,000. The governors are earning Kshs1.1 million. In the principle of a third, the MCA should be earning the same basic salary as Senators. The President and the Deputy President earn Kshs1.2 million and we are earning Kshs500,000. The basis of their salary should be half of what the governor is earning, so that it gives value to MCAs. I am happy that the issue of MCAs has received the necessary attention. We must protect the MCAs. Even if we give power to MCAs and they are not well-resourced in terms of the chambers and systems they use, I thank your office because every time a county assembly team comes to your office, the secretariat is always at hand to build capacity for both the MCAs and the secretariat. MCAs play a critical and pivotal role in protecting devolution in our Republic. Along with other colleagues, I will continue championing the fact that we must protect the MCAs and give them their resources. I hope the County Assemblies Forum (CAF), the Council of Governors (CoG), and the Association of Members of County Assembly (AMCA), led by my brother Mwalimu the MCA from Naivasha in Nakuru County, should fast-track the proposed policies. This is not just about MCAs, it is about the future of devolution in our country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}