HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, POST, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"count": 1608389,
"next": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=138963",
"previous": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=138961",
"results": [
{
"id": 1406031,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406031/?format=api",
"text_counter": 359,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
},
"content": "(2) An adjustment of repurposing the scrapped Managed Equipment Scheme (MES) programme allocation, which amounted to about Kshs5.86 billion. These adjustments take into account the non-discretionary financial obligations resulting out of- (1) Housing levy. (2) Increased contribution to the National Social Security Fund (NSSF). (3) Contribution to the Social Health Insurance Fund's wage drift. (4) The need for counties to provide matching allocation for the County Aggregation Industrial Parks (CAIPs). Remember, there has been commitments by the community health promoters’ programme, where the county and national Government meet their stipend on a 50-50 basis. Therefore, there is need to first take into account that counties will be expected to additionally shoulder that burden, before even having a conversation on the projected growth. The same way the national Government makes provisions in its funding needs, there is this proposal. Pursuant to Article 118 of the Constitution as read together with 145 (5) of the Senate Standing Orders, the Ccommittee facilitated public participation and took into account the views and recommendations of the public in its report. There was an advertisement inviting the public to submit memorandum. The chairperson of the committee will inform the House on who participated and made their contribution during these stakeholder conferences. A consideration of the stakeholder submission proposed that the Bill should allocate as much as whatever amount that people are proposing and the justification thereon. The committee has tabled their report and Members will find time to read through and see what has been established. The Bill has Kshs391 billion as a proposal, but the Standing Committee on Budget and Finance has taken time to read their report. As much as I will read the Bill as proposed, I must also make my comments on what the committee found and what I agree with them. That, the national Government share be Kshs2.5 trillion and the county equitable share be Kshs415.9 billion as what they had already observed during the annual BPS. We have said times without number, that BPS is not just a rosy suggestion to the National Treasury. It is well founded on good reason and logic. There are actuarial studies to it that are undertaken by Members of Budget and Finance Committee and even our colleagues from the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) on how you arrive at that figure. I have explained, that there are additional resource needs to our counties on account of laws that have been passed by the Houses of Parliament, which if we pass directly to our county governments, we will be unfair. This is because we know for a fact, that there will be more revenue raised or collected than was the previous financial year. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know the actual and projected growth that has been relayed here is 6.4 per cent. If we expect the same to be seen in our county governments, then we must begin by having a baseline that takes into consideration the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406032,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406032/?format=api",
"text_counter": 360,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
},
"content": "need to first contain or pay statutory deductions that arise out of laws that we have passed in this House together with agreements that county governments have entered into partnership with the national Government. There is no harm about counties agreeing with the national Government to have the Kenya Youth Professionals (KYP). This is a good and well thought-out programme which I expect each county government to think through and establish what their own people can produce in order to accelerate access to markets for farmers in that region. The matching condition allocations of county governments on their aggregation industrial park is Kshs11.75 billion. There is a matching allocation on the Community Health Promoters (CHPs) of Kshs3.23 billion and housing levy deductions. Remember county government staff are deducted and the employers’ contribution is Kshs4.5 billion. Enhanced contribution to the National Social Security Fund (NSSF) due to the yearly growth is an extra Kshs3 billion and a wage drift on account of yearly growth of about Kshs3 million. I appeal to the distinguished Senators of this House to support the report of this Committee and their proposals, so that we conclude this exercise. We made a final observation. Perhaps this is my last comment on this issue. We have not concluded the conversation on funding of our counties until we have a conversation about own source revenue. Many counties continue to underperform in terms of own source revenue collection. They fail intentionally due to pilferage. Many counties have refused to adopt modern practices for own source revenue collection, as is the case of what we are observing with the national Government. This is something that will help us at least keep tabs and know the true and actual potential of a particular county. To have a conversation on Division of Revenue without putting an equal demand for counties to find ways in which they can collect the intended revenue--- We have recently passed the National Rating Bill, so that we standardize payment of land rates, which is the leading source of own source revenue for nearly all our counties. We have equally passed the County Licensing (Uniform Procedures) Bill, so that we ensure that our counties have a standardized way of collecting revenue. If it becomes impossible, then I shall challenge my colleagues to think of a way of developing a standard system that is applicable to all the 47 counties, instead of having governors or county governments with different methods of raising revenue. That is our duty because we can legislate. We are the only body that can make national law that is applicable to all our 47 counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with the comments of my colleagues. I know many Senators want to contribute to this Bill. Therefore, I do not intend to be long with my comments, so that I also get a chance to listen to the wisdom of the committee and colleague Senators on what they have to say on this Division of Revenue Bill. A final request. If possible, I request colleagues that we debate and conclude this exercise on Second Reading today. However, if there will be many colleagues who want to speak on it, then we will have to carry on until Tuesday, next week, because it is an important Bill. I do not see how you can be a Senator and not have a say on the annual Division of Revenue Bill. Kindly say as much as you can. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406033,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406033/?format=api",
"text_counter": 361,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
},
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I beg to move and request the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Budget and Finance, the Senator from Mandera, Senator, Captain, Dr. Ali Roba, His Excellency, to second this Bill. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1406034,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406034/?format=api",
"text_counter": 362,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Ali Roba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the Division of Revenue Bill as moved by the Senate Majority Leader. I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House that the committee had taken diligent steps in terms of subjecting the Bill to public participation, where a number of stakeholders have participated; including the National Treasury, the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA), the Council of Governors (CoG), the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK), the International Budget Partnership (IBP), Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), the County Assemblies Forum (CAF), Katiba Institute, the Rift Valley Budget Hub, the Lake Region Budget Hub, and the Youth Senate of Kenya (YSK), in terms of trying to pick the opinions that they had in coming up with recommendations to this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the most important issue that we picked as a committee is the fact that the Bill had an error in terms of anchoring of its base. The Bill considered the base for allocation both by the CRA and our colleagues in the National Assembly as Kshs374 billion as opposed to Kshs385.425 billion. This is anchored in the Division of Revenue Act (DORA) which is a law. Hence, that error cascaded into an erroneous indication of consideration that stated that the Bill had considered an increase of allocation to county governments of Kshs16.6 billion, whereas the actual allocation as considered was only Kshs5.6 billion or thereabout. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have also thoroughly interrogated the Bill and we realized a major error. Whereas the CoG appeared before the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, they have been making a feel-good political statement whereby they end up making pronouncement such as we will share 50/50 without looking at the implication it would have on their budgets. For example, the issue of aggregation of markets and the Community Health Promoters (CHPs) which they said they will have 50/50, without looking at budget implications. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as we interrogated, we also looked at issues that the Senate Majority Leader has shared. There are legislations that have financial implications to county governments, which is the agenda for the national Government to pass. For example, the housing levy and the NSSF and the implication it will have on the payroll of county governments is an issue that we looked at. Looking at these issues, we determined that there is non-discretionary expenditure, which county governments will not avoid. For example, issues to do with the current strike of doctors. The national Government, through the Ministry of Health, has already committed that they are going to pay the arrears amounting to over Kshs3 billion in terms of when the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) was signed up to 2024. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from when the arears are settled, county governments are required to inherit that expenditure directly. That also amounted to an average expenditure of about Kshs5.8 billion, which is not discretionary. There is no way The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406035,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406035/?format=api",
"text_counter": 363,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Ali Roba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "county governments will reduce this expenditure. Once they inherit, the doctors must be paid because that is an expenditure and the payroll numbers are going to increase. Hence, it is non-discretionary expenditure to county governments because they have to foot that bill of Kshs5.8 billion. We also looked at the payroll impact the housing levy will have to county governments. It came to about Kshs4 billion in terms of the upwards growth of the payroll. We also looked at the enhanced contribution to NSSF which amounted to about Kshs3 billion. This is going to really adversely impact the overall payroll of the county governments. These are legislations that are passed nationally and we are all subject them. The impact in terms of the cost needs to be rationally looked at when allocating vertical share of revenue between national and county governments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we also looked at county aggregation and industrial parks that I have just shared. The county governors have made some political statements and commitments that have very serious financial implications of Kshs11.75 billion. The national Government was going to contribute Kshs250 million while the county governments have committed to match it up by contributing another Kshs250 billion. The cumulative effect of Kshs250 million times 47 counties is Kshs11.75 billion. Most of them have advertised that they did not have any money in the budget for that construction. Where will that bill go if Kshs11.7 billion from county aggregation and industrial parks is an impact on the budget, yet the proposal in the current Bill is moving it from Kshs385.425 billion to Kshs391 billion? Already, Kshs11.75 billion is increased on only one item. We looked at the issue of matching allocation commitment; another feel-good political commitment by governors without looking at its impact. When they appear before the Committee, they start saying that these numbers impact the payroll negatively when paying the CHPs. Why then commit if you are not able to meet? The impact also comes to Kshs3.23 billion on the payroll. I was a governor for 10 years and I will keep on saying this because experienced is not sometimes replaceable by other issues. Mandera County did not have a dialysis machine, a CT scan and advanced x-ray machines. Today, they do have, thanks to the Medical Equipment Services (MES). That structure of MES has ceased to be. County governments have obsolete equipment that require replacement or servicing. The machines have also not been built anywhere in the wisdom of the community. We looked at the importance of enhancing service delivery for county governments at the county level. It is an issue that the national Government came up with in its wisdom. Many people that used to seek dialysis by travelling to Nairobi and paying so much were able to access it in their respective counties. Thanks to this MES that was put in place through a national Government policy and supported by county governments. However, it has since been discontinued. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406036,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406036/?format=api",
"text_counter": 364,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Ali Roba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The question that then puzzled the committee is; what happens now and these services had already been introduced? Are we going to subject our public to a situation where they will have to seek such services from Level 5 hospitals or, do we need to support to make sure that the bare minimum services that had been put in place do not fall back? Even if we cannot improve, then we should be able to sustain. As such, we have looked at allocation of Kshs5.64 billion for that purpose. There is also the issue of the Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) automatic wage bill adjustment that happens without any consultation. For that factor, we said that it is only realistic for a factor of about Kshs2.857 billion be allocated for that purpose. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appeal to the Senators to understand that it is the determination and commitment of this Kenya Kwanza Government to make sure devolution is protected and services are improved at those levels. From the start, we are working on a situation where, the Constitution has capped the sharable revenue to be from the last audited and approved account, which is for financial year 2020/2021. We are already behind because the figures we are looking at are from financial year 2020/2021 when the current financial year is 2023/2024. We looked at it from the wisdom of the fact that all items that I have listed are non-discretionary expenditure to county governments. That is not something that you can say, “we have solved the doctors strike. The county governments should now inherit the bill.” Yet, there is no corresponding allocation of Kshs5.8 billion to pay the doctors. Where will they get the money to pay the doctors when they are already struggling? Also, the marginal growth of the revenues allocated to county government has been extremely marginal, not even enough to cater for the normal inflationary expenditures. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I appeal to my colleagues, I shared with them this critical information. This committee has recommended the vertical share of revenue between the national Governments to be at Ksh2,524,318,490,857 and for the county governments equitable share the Committee has recommend Kshs415,952,200,000. This is arrived at by making those adjustments said. The Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) has recommended Kshs398 billion. However, the Bill as approved by the National Assembly, has recommended Kshs391 billion. The base, which is the Division of the Revenue Act (DORA) of the previous financial year, has recommended Kshs385.425. I appeal to this House that since we represent the interest of the nation by making sure that devolution works. That reduces pressure on the national Government if health care, provision of water services, roads and personnel being paid commensurate to their work, works. We came up with that bare minimum using that wisdom. As I support, I appeal to the House to concur with the committee. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1406037,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406037/?format=api",
"text_counter": 365,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
},
{
"id": 1406038,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406038/?format=api",
"text_counter": 366,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Ali Roba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406039,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406039/?format=api",
"text_counter": 367,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Senators, at this point, we will allow contributions. Sen. Osotsi, you may have the floor."
},
{
"id": 1406040,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406040/?format=api",
"text_counter": 368,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
},
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to make my valid contributions on the Division of Revenue Bill, 2024. From the onset, I support it, but with amendments that the committee is proposing that the shareable revenue to the counties be Kshs415.9 billion. We cannot be seen to be going against our word. In this House, we passed the BPS and said we would like the share of the counties to be Kshs415.9 billion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a surprise that the National Assembly has said Kshs391 billion. We are in this House to represent our counties. We are in this House because of Article 96 of the Constitution - to protect county governments and their interests. We cannot go for a lower figure of Kshs391 billion. I have heard the Senate Majority Leader say that if we disagree with the National Assembly, it will go to the Mediation Committee. That is well and good. This is because we are here to look after the counties and protect their interests and not the interest of the national Government. In any case, it is not right at all that this Bill has to originate from the National Assembly. This is a very crucial piece of legislation that touches on our counties and it is important that such a Bill originates from the National Assembly so that we do not go through murky games like what the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and Budget has alluded to, like having deliberate errors in this Bill. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the equitable share base is indicated to be Kshs374 billion, whereas it is supposed to be Kshs385 billion. Then they are saying that it is going to increase with Kshs6.6 billion. That is not true. We passed Kshs385 billion last year and, therefore, that is the base. I request colleagues in this House to stand firm and approve the recommendations by the committee that the shareable revenue for our counties be Kshs415.9 billion. I will comment on the programmes that the national Government is running with county governments and I will give the example of the programme on CHPs. Primary health care is a devolved function. Why would the national Government want to get involved in programmes which are devolved and pretend to want to fund them halfway, when they should just send all the money to counties? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am told that some CHPs have not been paid. In my county, they have gone for three months without being paid their stipend because of delays in releasing the counterpart share from the national Government. We also have the programme of county industrial parks. This is another white elephant in the making. The arrangement was that counties give 50 per cent and the national Government, 50 per cent as well. The then Cabinet Secretary for Industry, Trade and Enterprise Development was busy running up and down, launching the industrial parks. They even launched in my county even though the national Government had not budgeted for the money. The County Assembly had not even approved any money to that programme. That also affected many other counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}