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{
"id": 1406041,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406041/?format=api",
"text_counter": 369,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
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"content": "If the national Government wants to finance programmes in our counties, particularly for devolved functions, they should send that money to the counties and not pretend that they are funding 50 per cent and the counties fund 50 per cent. That is a deliberate way of gradually taking over some of the devolved functions from our counties to the national Government. We have even seen suggestions on the Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE); that the national Government will run the ECDE better and they should help counties in running it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in future, even this Division of Revenue should also include amounts of key devolved functions which are being held in the national Government. This also includes health. There are many functions within the health sector that are still held at the national level. Over 80 per cent of the national budget on health is domiciled in the national Government. We would like to know the devolved programmes they are running. This is so that when we approve the money, we will know clearly that the national Government has these devolved programmes and they are retaining money for them. That also includes ECDE because to some extent, a number of programmes are run by the national Government. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know the national Government keeps on saying that counties should seek to improve their own-source revenue and we agree on them on that. However, that should not be used to deny our counties money. Let us deal with governance issues in our counties. That is why the Senate is there and we deal with that. Let not that be used to deny our counties money. We would like our counties to get a fair share of the nationally generated revenue and apart from that, put pressure on them to maximize on avenues for raising money through own-source revenue. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that some of our colleagues are going to be intimidated to go for the Kshs391 billion that the national Government has approved. I ask our colleagues, especially the ones on the other side to please stand firm for the devolution of this country. They should stand firm. We do not want a scenario like the one for last time, when we were given two choices and we went for the lower amount – Kshs385 billion. This is an opportunity to redeem yourself. We are going to redeem ourselves by pushing for Kshs415.9 billion for our counties, whatever happens. I see Sen. Cherarkey is nodding and I hope he is with us on this. We are here because of our counties and we are not here to push for the interests of the national Government. The national Government interests can be pushed in that “Lower” House called the National Assembly. However, in this “Upper” House, we are here to push for the interests of our counties, even though we have problems in those counties. We have corruption and pilferage of our funds, but the Senate should be seen to be doing our work. Our main function is to take money to the counties. After taking the money to the counties, we oversight them. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me do my first part of the work – take enough money to the counties. Then I will follow this money to oversight it. However, we cannot say that we want to give our counties less money and behave like those guys in the “Lower” House. Those fellows in the “Lower” House get allocated a lot of money. They The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406042,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406042/?format=api",
"text_counter": 370,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
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"content": "get money for roads, National Government Constituency Development Fund (NG-CDF) and many other allocations. The work of Senators is to basically push for more money for our counties. I, therefore, fully support the report by the Committee on Finance and Budget which is chaired by Sen. Ali Roba and other strong Members, like my neighbour, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It also has my Member in the County Public Investments Committee and Special Funds (CPICSF), Sen. Tabitha. These are people who have stood firm. They should continue standing firm with the rest of us. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this time round, we want to see a Senate that will speak with one voice. Whether you are in the Minority or the Majority side, I request that we speak in one voice on this matter. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support."
},
{
"id": 1406043,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406043/?format=api",
"text_counter": 371,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Danson Mungatana."
},
{
"id": 1406044,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406044/?format=api",
"text_counter": 372,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa nafasi niongee kidogo kuhusu Mswada huu ulioko mbele yetu. Mwaka wa 1963, Kenya ilipopata Uhuru, kulichaguliwa Maseneta 41. Maseneta hawa walikuwa wanasimamia majimbo yao. Katiba ya kwanza ilikuwa imepeana nguvu kwa majimbo. Siasa hii ya majimbo iliendelezwa na wakubwa wetu waliotutangulia kama Ronald Gideon Ngala, Masinde Muliro na Daniel Moi waliokuwa kwa Chama cha Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU). Hayati Mzee Jomo Kenyatta na Jaramogi Oginga Odinga walikuwa kwa Chama cha Kenya African National Union (KANU). Walitaka Serikali moja. Hawakutaka hata Seneti iwepo. Mpango uliotumika hasa ni kuyanyima majimbo pesa ili yafe kifo cha kawaida. Walitumia pia njama ya kuvunja KADU nguvu kwa kuwaringisha mikono wale viongozi ili Maseneta wahame. Walihama na kuingia upande wa Serikali na hatimaye wakateuliwa kama Wabunge wa kawaida. Kuua gatuzi zetu ambazo tuko nazo wakati huu, njia inayotumika ni kuzinyima pesa. Sisi hapa kamati yetu imekaa na kuangalia sababu nyingi. Mwenyekiti wetu Ali Roba amezielezea kwa undani, singetaka kurudia tena. Kisha akasema kwamba sisi kama kamati ya Seneti, tumekaa na kusema pesa ambazo zingefaa ziende kwa gatuzi zetu ni shiling billioni mia nne kumi na tano nukta tisa. Hawa wengine wameleta Mswada huu na kusema pesa zinayofaa ziende haswa kutumia maelezo ya Hazina ya Kitaifa ni shilingi bilioni mia tatu tisaini na moja. Nakubaliana kabisa na wenzangu ambao wamesema hapo awali ya kwamba wakati huu ni lazima tusimame kidete. Sisi sote tuseme ripoti hii ya Kamati yetu ya Fedha na Bajeti, tunaiunga mkono. Tusiangalie tuko mrengo gani wa kisiasa katika Seneti. Na sababu ni kwamba, ukiangalia sheria hii, Kipengele cha tisa kinaelezea sababu tisa ambazo Hazina ya Kitaifa wametoa tupeleke kwa gatuzi ni shilingi bilioni mia tatu tisaini na moja (Kshs391 bilioni). Lakini moja ya hizo sababu ukiangalia Kipengele cha 9(b) (c) wamesema umaarufu wa sarafu ya Kenya inashuka kwa sababu ya hali ya biashara ulimwenguni. Ninaomba wenzangu msome, Kipengele cha 9(e). Wanasema sarafu ya Kenya inashuka eti kwa sababu kuna vita Ukraine na Urusi. Imeandikwa kwa Mswada huu The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406045,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406045/?format=api",
"text_counter": 373,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "tunaouzungumzia leo. Kama waliziandika sababu hizo kwa sheria na kusema hizo ni kati ya sababu ambazo wanazitumia kugandamiza gatuzi. Hivyo basi, mgao unaofaa ni Shilingi 391 bilioni. Tunataka kuambia Hazina ya Kitaifa kwamba sababu hizo hazina maana tena wakati huu. Sarafu ya Kenya imepata nguvu na sababu walizotoa zimepitwa na wakati. Ni kweli sheria tunayoizungumzia sasa hivi na wakati walipopendekeza kiwango cha mgao huu, sarafu ya Kenya kweli ilikuwa hafifu. Lakini, sasa hivi, sarafu ya Kenya imeimarika. Kwa hivyo, zile sababu za kimsingi ambazo Hazina ya Kitaifa ilitumia ili kugandamiza mgao wa pesa za kutosha, mbali na yale makosa walifanya wakati wanafanya mahesabu ya base, walisema ya kwamba sarafu ya Kenya imezorota. Lakini sasa hayo mawazo hayapo tena. Kwa hivyo, tunawaomba wale wanaosema kupitia sheria hii ya kwamba pesa iwe ni Shilingi 391 bilioni, hatutaki hivyo. Wakubaliane na hali iliopo saa hii. Kamati ya Seneti imesema hali iliopo sasa, mgao wa gatuzi zetu 47 ni Shilingi 415.9 bilioni. Mimi nataka kusema jambo moja. Ni kweli kuna shida katika kaunti zetu. Kwa mfano, Tana River na nyinginezo ziko na shida. Lakini hata kama tuko na shida kwa boma zetu kuhusu matumizi ya pesa, hiyo sio kusema baba ambaye anaenda kuchukua mshahara, basi mshahara wake upunguzwe. Ule mshahara lazima uje wote jinsi inavyotakikana. Zile shida za kule nyumbani, tutazifuatilia na kuzitatua. Kama baba wa nyumba ni mlevi na anapeleka pesa kwa watu wasiohusika na hiyo familia, anaharibu pesa za familia, hayo ni mambo ya kule nyumbani. Tutayatatua. Tutamuitia wazee na tutamfunga. Lazima tumrekebishe. Hata hivyo, hatuwezi kwenda kwa ofisi yake tuseme mshahara wake upunguzwe. Kuna mazungumzo ambayo watu wengine wanasema serikali za kaunti zinatumia pesa zao vibaya. Hivyo basi, tupunguze ili haki inayotakikana ifanyike kwao. Mimi nasema hizo shida tutaziangalia kama Seneti na tutajaribu kuzitatua. Lakini, ule mgao wetu wa sawa kwa kaunti zetu hatutaki ukatwe. Tunawaomba wale walioleta Mswada huu wakitumia mwongozo wa Hazina ya Kitaifa waambie Hazina ya Kitaifa ilikosea. Yale mapendekezo na maelezo waliweka katika sheria hii imepitwa na wakati. Wakati huu, sarafu ya Kenya imeimarika. Tunataka sasa yale mapendekezo ambayo yametoka kwa kamati yetu yafanyike. Sisi kama Seneti, tushikane na tusimame pamoja na tuseme pesa zetu za kaunti ni Shilingi 415.9 bilioni. Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda."
},
{
"id": 1406046,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406046/?format=api",
"text_counter": 374,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, very much. Sen. Olekina."
},
{
"id": 1406047,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406047/?format=api",
"text_counter": 375,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support this Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bills No.14 of 2024) between the two levels of government; that is the national Government and the county governments. From the onset, let me begin by appreciating, once again, the distinguished Senator for Mandera; the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget and his entire team for being extremely diligent in making sure that the youth are tooth- comb to go through what is presented in their committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406048,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406048/?format=api",
"text_counter": 376,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to be very candid that what had been indicated in the Bill falls short of nothing, but deceitful. It is very shocking that the House of Parliament can introduce a Bill and completely deceive not just this House, but also Kenyans in terms of the content of the Bill. To be told that the baseline indicated in the Bill was a figure of their imagination, so that they can demonstrate to Kenyans that we are increasing money for counties, is very wrong. It is completely uncouth and uncivilised. Whoever did that should be ashamed of himself. We are in this House because of Article 96 of the Constitution of Kenya, which is to defend the interests of our counties and their governments. The Committee on Finance and Budget has shown diligence, fiduciary to the rule of law and has demonstrated to this country that Senate is here to defend devolution. There is a word that my brother, Sen. Ali Roba, used. He said that governors are quick to accept goodies from the national Government. They would go out there to make feel-good political statements that we are doing this and that. It is about time that Kenyans realise that those statements are causing projects to stall. This is when you prioritise someone else's projects at the expense of your own. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the national Government and the county government have their own share of resources. We keep on talking about the challenges that we face in our counties, including the limited resources that we send to our counties. Instead of these 47 executives realizing that they have little money to carry out all the functions which have not even been costed, they rush to say, “national Government, we are happy, come in and help us build industrial parks, we will contribute a huge amount.” That is number one. Number two is that on the issue of the CHP, they would say they will pay 50 per cent. Where is that money coming from? Do these governors understand accounting and financial discipline? They do not understand because, in most cases, all they do is line their own pockets. When they get into office, those who used to live in apartments now go into those apartments and get an earth moving equipment to crash everything together with the cockroaches and build big mansions overnight. I challenge all of you distinguished Senators to traverse counties and ask your governors where they lived last year. When did we vote? Where were they living on 9th August, 2022 and where are they living now? Most of them were living in small huts, which were infested by cockroaches and everything, but they are now living in manicured mansions at the expense of taxpayers, yet no one sees a problem in that. When we come here, we tell Kenyans, ‘wake up, you are being taken for a ride. The Senate is fighting for your rights.’ People then start saying ‘ wacha zako,’ just because their pockets are being lined. Forgive me for trying to ‘impute improper motive,’ but facts are stubborn. It is quite deceitful for even the National Assembly to delay in approving audited financial statements, so that even the figures which are used to determine the division of revenue from two levels of government is dated back to financial year 2020/2021. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406049,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406049/?format=api",
"text_counter": 377,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "We are in 2023/2024, moving to 2024/2025 within the next few months. We are still going to be relying on finances audited and approved by the National Assembly for us to be able to divide the money. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are now told that the share of revenue of county governments is 24.9 per cent of the approved financials of 2020/2021. In reality, what is being shared to the county government is only 13 per cent, which is against the Constitution. Some of these things must be demystified for Kenyans to understand. There are a lot of those feel-good statements out there. A member of the National Assembly would go out to say, “no, we have given county governments 25 per cent of all the shareable revenue that we have.” In reality, it is only 13.3 per cent. It is not right to even demand that county governments contribute to paying these community health workers, a project of the national Government. Health is devolved as stated in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. My good friend, the Chairperson of the Committee on Energy, guess what? The Ministry of Health budget is equivalent to almost 10 counties shareable revenue. That is why you see the Cabinet Secretary in charge of health is untouchable because she has the money. In reality, Kenyans do not understand the pain we go through in this House trying to demonstrate why Kenyans should be happy. Now, I am saying that those doctors must go back to the hospitals because a national Government must pay. We must make sure that we try to be our brothers’ keepers because we are not. It is imperative that all 47 Senators elected to represent their people are here. They take the Division of Revenue Bill and go through it. What the Committee on Finance and Budget did is commendable. What shocks me is that a Bill goes through Parliament, where we have staff that we pay money and is then published with the Kenya Gazette, but it is not accurate. What do you call that? We all know the baseline for last year. How do you reduce it by over Kshs10 billion and then you come say, ‘guess what, we are increasing the allocation to counties by ‘x’ amount of money?’ Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, national Government projects should be national Government projects. The reason today county governments are not able to pay their own pending bills is because county governments, with the same feel-good political statement, are diverting the money. They appease the national Government by probably building those national Government projects with it. Why can we not learn to live within our means? If only all those stakeholders who gave their views to the Committee were the first ones to say, ‘gentlemen, the amount which you are proposing to allocate to county governments is inadequate.’ These are experts, technocrats and people who understand. They are constitutional bodies that have been set up to ensure that, at least, we maintain fiduciary responsibility and help our counties grow. They can come and tell us that the amount of money we are sending to the counties is not enough. Should we ignore it? National Assembly, come on! Some things annoy me and people need to know. Sometimes members of the Executive go out there and say they have given county government ‘x’ amount of money. The Executive does not give county governments money. We, in Parliament, are the ones who divide the money between the Executive and county governments. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406050,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406050/?format=api",
"text_counter": 378,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "In this proposed division of revenue, which I concur with the Committee, they have said that we will give the national Government about Kshs1.570 trillion because the projected revenue is about Kshs2.948 trillion. Out of this, we will give the national Government 86.4 per cent of all the money that we are going to collect. County governments take only 13 per cent. This goes to the Committee on Finance and Budget. Because of your diligence, your agility and dedication to service, which is helping this country, what we need to do is to find a way to push. It may mean coming up with a piece of legislation to push the National Assembly to fast-track approval of the current financials. We should not be relying on 2020, yet we are in 2025. Seriously, what exactly are we doing? Mr. Temporary, Speaker, Sir, because of time and I know my colleagues would want to comment, the people of Kenya must know that the MES project has now been scrapped. That gives us more money. It is almost Kshs5.8 billion, which has now been repurposed. That money should go back to counties. That is why no one in their rightful mind should object to the amount albeit little. I mean the money is not too much, but the amount of Kshs415.9 billion proposed by the Committee is peanuts compared to the amount of money that we are giving the national Government. The fact that we have scrapped a service that was consuming about Kshs6 billion, we have that money. Save the counties. I plead with my colleagues that when you are here, remember your first duty is to the people of Kenya who elected you. Your second duty is to remember the Article of the Constitution that puts you here and what it says. Article 96 of the Constitution is for you to defend the interests of counties and their governments. Thirdly, as I conclude, I also want to remind county governments about Articles 226(5) and 125 of the Constitution. As long as I am a Member of this House, our oversight committees will take you to task to demonstrate how you have been diligent in using public funds. We have a Motion, which I hope we will conclude, to try and instill or inculcate the culture of fiscal discipline in our counties. It is only then that we will leave this country a better country than we found it. County governors should leave feel-good statement, where they want to be seen as if they are supporting the national Government. You should not be kissing asses of other people in the national Government. In fact, what you should do is to go---"
}
]
}