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{
"id": 1406051,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406051/?format=api",
"text_counter": 379,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Olekina, use parliamentary language. Please, withdraw that."
},
{
"id": 1406052,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406052/?format=api",
"text_counter": 380,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I withdraw that statement. Sorry, let me put it in better terms. I will ask my brother, the Majority Whip, when he is making his contribution - because I know how generous he is with his words - to follow up on where I left it. He should ensure that he sends the message straight to this governor, so that we leave this country a better country than we found it. I support and congratulate my dear brother for the good work. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir."
},
{
"id": 1406053,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406053/?format=api",
"text_counter": 381,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Senator. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406054,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406054/?format=api",
"text_counter": 382,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, proceed."
},
{
"id": 1406055,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406055/?format=api",
"text_counter": 383,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. Allow me to start by thanking our Secretariat, the clerk assistants, the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) and the legal team that has worked with us in the Committee on Finance and Budget. I thank all Members who assist this great committee. I will not forget to thank my colleagues. I am a new Member of Parliament (MP) and this is one of the committees that I serve with a lot of pride. When I sit with Members of this House's leadership like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the captain and doctor to be Sen. Ali Roba, Sen. Faki, and youth Senators like Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I take pride because I have learnt a lot. Our committee deals with matters. We have had the privilege of having stakeholders who are frequent in our deliberations and discussions of the different bills we have. Some of the stakeholders are led by the National Treasury. The Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) plays an important part. The Council of Governors (CoG) and Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK) are amongst many other stakeholders that also play an important part. I have decided to note that because the House needs to know the journey the Committee has walked, keeping in mind where we are coming from. Last year, I had the privilege of tabling the Bill. During voting, I endured the disadvantage of having to amend the figures from what we had tabled as a Committee. Our offer was Kshs407 billion, but it had to be reduced to Kshs385 billion. I have always raised a concern in the committee in terms of the issue of the last audited reports. Sadly, we have to wait for the National Assembly to approve the audited reports. The Constitution states that we use recent audited reports. The last audited reports approved by Parliament are for the financial year 2020/2021, yet we are in the financial year 2023/2024. We are soon closing the financial year 2024/2025. When you ask about the cause of the delay while we have a running Parliament - this should be one of the priorities of the National Assembly. We ask them to prioritise the audited reports, so they can be current. When you look at the 2019/2020, 2020/2021 and 2022/2023 financial years, it is only the COVID-19 period of the financial year 2020/2021, where revenue was low. We all know this is because of the pandemic. From there, when you look at the revenue reports, these amounts have been moderate increments. When you look at that, you wonder why, sadly, the National Treasury and the National Assembly Committee on Budget would sit and propose Kshs391 billion to counties as an increment of Kshs6 billion. You will note that the rate of inflation has gone high. All our 47 county governments also borrow from our commercial banks. The last message I received on my phone from one of my bankers was that the interest rate of borrowing is about 21 per cent. Therefore, interest rates at the commercial banks have also increased. How then do we add Kshs6 billion according to their proposal? Previously, we added to Kshs385 billion. We were coming from Kshs370 billion. That is an increment of Kshs15 billion. So, how do we go down and lower more than The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406056,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406056/?format=api",
"text_counter": 384,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "half, and deny counties money by just giving them an additional of Kshs6 billion only, looking at the issue of the inflation and the interest rate in the commercial banks? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other matter is on the issues of the CHPs, that we have in all the 47 counties. Currently, as we speak, the CHPs are earning Kshs6,000 only, a contribution by the national Government and the county government, yet we know very well that health is devolved. Is Kshs6,000 enough for them? Of course not, but it is something because they started with around Kshs3,000, then there was an increment to Kshs6,000. However, given the cost of living now, more money is needed for them. That aside, with the current amount that they are supposed to get today, and as my Chairperson had indicated earlier, the total budget for the issue of the CHPs is about Kshs3.2 billion for all the counties. If we do not prioritize, as far this particular amount is concerned, are we going to send our CHPs back home? Will they deliver the services that we expect from them? I have always said that a healthy nation is a wealthy nation because there is an important role that the CHPs undertake. It is very critical that we, as a committee, justify the Kshs415.9 billion. These are some of the issues that we have looked at. We had two ways of looking at this. Even before I go into the reasons as to why we have looked into some of these reasons, I will look at the issue of the annual salary increment. You know very well, in the contracts that are given by the counties to their staff, there is always a provision for salary increment every year. So, these monies cannot be constant. There is the cost of the Social Health Insurance Fund (SHIF), the National Social Security Fund (NSSF). There is also the issue of the housing levy that we are all paying today. Therefore, that is an additional cost to the counties. Where is that money going to come from? As Senators, we agree to this figure, but our counterparts in the National Treasury and the National Assembly are not understanding why we came to Kshs415.9 billion. That is why we are trying to explain and tell them some of these facts. They are open. When you look at our base, there is nothing that is scientific and extraordinary that you need to understand. It is factual because all of us, as we speak, are paying the housing levy. It is a cost. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in our continuous deliberations as a committee, we had just looked at Kshs6.4billion as a percentage of economic growth, multiplied by the Kshs385.4 billion, which was the last amount that we gave to counties. Therefore, on that amount, we added the amount for the medical equipment, which is Kshs5.86 billion. Simple mathematics of addition, if you add that, you get Kshs415.9 billion. Apart from these other issues that we have tried to input and say that these are the figures, there is Kshs6.4 billion, which is an increment plus the medical equipment because these are monies that we brought to zero. Therefore, the addition of that then justifies the Kshs415.9 billion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is an animal that we have been debating this week. I call it an animal because it is called the pending bills animal. Our colleague, Sen. Olekina, had brought this Motion and some of the issues that we raised, is the thorny issue of the pending bills. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406057,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406057/?format=api",
"text_counter": 385,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Under normal circumstances, we have always had a maximum of between three to four governors coming before the committee, when the CoG appeared. However, this time round, they came full force. We had to try and squeeze in our small space, but what was important was to execute our discussions. We had about 10 governors who appeared to deliberate on this agenda. Apparently, their proposal was Kshs450 billion. Hon. Senators and governors need to understand that we did not just take and calculate figures. Our Kshs415.9 billion figure is a mathematically calculated figure. That is why, as a committee, we justify this calculation because even the Kshs450 billion was not adding up. Our biggest question to the governors was simple, what are you doing as far as the pending bills is concerned? One common denominator of the answer was that they found these bills in place from the defunct governments and all that. However, there has to be an end to every start. We have emphasised to the governors that it is the high time they also address this issue. The county that I represent, the Nairobi City County, has Kshs107 billion pending bills. It is a shame and we have to call a spade a spade. I am also privileged to serve in the other Oversight Committee called County Public Investment Committee (CPIC), where we have this stakeholder called the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC). Where I sit, in the Committee on Finance and Budget, we give the money. I also sit in CPIC and I oversight the money that we have given. As an oversight committee, we have noted a weakness with some counties as far as their staff are concerned, in regards to the professionalism of the accounting standards that are to be adhered to. Some of the counties are not completely adhering to the accounting standards. It is so shocking at times that when you ask them for their Certified Public Accountant (CPA) numbers, that they should have as required, like the ones the lawyers have, some of them have not even renewed their numbers, showing lack of seriousness. These are people who are poor when it comes to the financial statements. It becomes a challenge if these are the people who are supposed to give advice to the executive and make policies. I urge the institution that deals with accountants to be more keen and take action and deregister members who are not serious on ensuring that they are up to date with the accounting standards and how they should be able to respect their certifications that they have been awarded to. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Division of Revenue Act (DORA) is a very important issue in this Senate. I wish I would be able to vote, but what is important is that I am here. I pride in the fact that I have been able to champion for more monies for the governors. I urge my colleague Senators who have the power to vote for this Kshs415.9 billion. This is because some of them will be the future governors. How then do you sort these problems that we have been mentioning, if you do not make the decision now? At times, the decisions we make are not just for the future, but for the current situations that we are in. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1406058,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406058/?format=api",
"text_counter": 386,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I urge that they look at this issue keenly because they are the same leaders tomorrow. I am happy because we have my Chairperson who is a former ten-year governor, who understands these issues because he is now sitting where this decision is made in this Senate platform. Lastly, the Senate is an independent House. It is also the “Upper” House. It is our baby, our cake and our everything. The Division of Revenue Bill should be ours to always protect. We should not even ask why we should mediate. Why do we anticipate issues? Why is it that we want to allow what the National Assembly has proposed? What is our work here as Senators? Is it just to impeach and bring Statements and Bills? This is our main baby in this House. It is high time we owned it fully for the sake of devolution. We also have the oversight fund. We need to tell them that as much as more money will be send, we need to have mechanisms as far as oversight of the counties is concerned. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, as the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and Budget, I support and appreciate my team for this journey. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1406059,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406059/?format=api",
"text_counter": 387,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Proceed, Sen. Wambua."
},
{
"id": 1406060,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1406060/?format=api",
"text_counter": 388,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wambua",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13199,
"legal_name": "Enoch Kiio Wambua",
"slug": "enoch-kiio-wambua"
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to add my voice on the Division of Revenue Bill, 2024. I want to make a few remarks beginning with a conflict in the Bill itself. I have heard the explanation from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and Budget on Clause 4 of the Bill. Where there is reference to a base of Kshs374.5 billion, he referred to it as an error. In Clause 5, that base moves to Kshs385 billion. Whereas the Chairperson appreciates that as an error, I look at it as a calculated move to justify denying funds to counties. I say this because this is not new to us. We have walked this path before. I like the contribution by Sen. Mungatana. He said that the best way of killing devolution is to deny counties revenue. This is what is happening with this Bill that has emanated from the National Assembly. It is the National Assembly that has the responsibility to audit accounts. If you look at the First Schedule, they have put it in black and white that what they are talking about is a percentage of 2020/2021 audited and approved revenue, which was Kshs1.5 trillion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it beats logic that we are being guided by a percentage derived from audited and approved revenues of four financial years down the line to make a determination on how much money we shall be giving to our counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if we are taking Kshs385 billion for the previous financial year as the base and then giving counties Kshs391 billion this year, in absolute terms, we are only adding Kshs5.6 billion to counties. That is the backdrop of these three realities; one, county governors in their wisdom, I say that because it is their wisdom, have gone into a deal with the national Government for the establishment of what they are calling the industrial parks. Each The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}