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{
"id": 1408721,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408721/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Senator, your time is up."
},
{
"id": 1408722,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408722/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Loud consultations)"
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{
"id": 1408723,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408723/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "He has not requested for more time. I would have given him additional time. Proceed, Sen. Lomenen."
},
{
"id": 1408724,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408724/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Lomenen",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 2940,
"legal_name": "James Lomenen Ekomwa",
"slug": "james-lomenen-ekomwa"
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I stand to support this Bill from the Committee on Finance and Budget. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate is not the problem. We always allocate funds to the counties, but the problem is with the counties. One of the problems in the counties is on the value for money. I was formerly a member of the National Assembly and I was supervising the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG- CDF). We found that building a NG-CDF class was worth Kshs2 million. However, the cost of a class in the county is almost Kshs4 million or Kshs5 million. You wonder whether the funds that comes from the NG-CDF are the same as those from the county governments. So, funds are misused. I think the Chairpersons for the Public Investment and Special Funds Committee (CPIC) and County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) are here. You will find that most of the projects in the counties are white elephants. Big projects which are worth millions are not completed. Even now if we get into these areas. Members of the Senate who went for Senate Mashinani saw with their naked eyes how these projects are still not complete, yet the community needs them. For example, if a health center or hospital is not complete, when will these people from this location or sub-county use these services? So, when funds are allocated to the county, the priorities are diverted when they get to the county. The Governor and the people whom he works with decide to divert the funds to projects that are so comfortable to them. Then the community is left wandering in search of water, food, health services, school fees et cetera . We will not tire to do oversight. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when Senators oversight and try to exercise their constitutional responsibility to the county, the county feels hurt. We will ensure that we oversight any public fund that is given to the county until the end of our age. The other one thing that we have also realized is the issue of pending bills. It is becoming a problem. Before pending bills are paid, there are things that are considered; politics comes in. The current governor would say he or she is not paying those bills because he does not know what happened during the procurement process et cetera . However, during the handing over, the governor received all the pending bills and the handing-over report. He could have denied and said let audit be done to pending bills and incomplete projects before he or she pay. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1408725,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408725/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Lomenen",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 2940,
"legal_name": "James Lomenen Ekomwa",
"slug": "james-lomenen-ekomwa"
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"content": "The amount on pending bills is so much. So, even when we allocate these funds to the county, with political good will, all these funds will be paid to pending bills and public services will be adequate to the community. We have to pay because contractors who offer services to counties have families and other needs. There is no excuse but to pay them. They live in the counties and are ready to offer services because they are Kenyans. Therefore, they deserve to be paid. Another thing we have observed is that the right priorities should be done. If it is water, let the communities get it. If it is the issue of health centres or hospitals, it is not in order for the people of a county like Marsabit or Turkana to travel 150 kilometres just because of referral cases due to lack of drugs or services in a specific hospital, yet we are allocated funds just like other counties that we take our referrals to. We have to make proper use of funds that we are given. These funds should meet the right priorities for the citizens. We have to carry needs assessment, so that we know problems that communities are facing. They will tell you because they know better than you. However, If you---"
},
{
"id": 1408726,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408726/?format=api",
"text_counter": 174,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Lomenen, your time is up. Proceed, Sen. Eddie Oketch."
},
{
"id": 1408727,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408727/?format=api",
"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to share a few thoughts concerning this Bill as captured in both Articles 203 and 204 of the Constitution. This Bill proposes about Kshs7.8 billion as Equalization Fund to go to the counties. I just want to speak to two issues because of pressure of time. If I had 20 minutes, I would have talked about other adventurous things. Just to jog our minds, this Bill projects that we will have revenue allocation for FY 2024/2025 estimated at Kshs2.9 trillion. Out of that, based on what the National Treasury had brought, the national Government share of Kshs2.9 trillion should be Kshs2.5 trillion. If you do the maths, that represents 86.47 per cent of the total revenue that we are projecting. The National Treasury proposed that county governments should get Kshs391 billion. If you do the maths, the share of that is 13.3 per cent of the total revenue that we project. Of course, the dictates of Article 203 require that in this kind of division, we should allocate at least 15 per cent of the last audited financial reports. The last audited financials of the country were those of FY 2020/ 2021. That means that if you were to go with what the National Treasury proposed, then the equitable share would be about 24 per cent of the last audited financials. When you do the maths, it looks good as if you have given counties so much money. However, in the thickness of things, that would only mean that the increase to county governments, based on what we gave them last year, would only be 1.5 per cent. I am glad that this committee, after doing some maths and looking at a number of things, proposed Kshs415.9 billion as equitable share that we should give to counties. This is something that the House should rally behind, as well as the National Assembly, because the kind of pressures that counties are facing today are so many. The words “equitable share” must be equitable, both in meaning and in deed. If you look at the growth factors of our revenue that affect us nationally, there are a number of things we must start fighting for. The first thing that we should care about as The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1408728,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408728/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "a committee, which I also care about personally, is the fact that inflation and the cost of goods and services are not considered when you only use either previous year’s baseline or previously audited finances. That leaves the national Government benefiting from the fact that their revenue growth does cater for their budgets, inflationary issues, as well as the cost of goods and services. I think there is a lacuna in law under Article 203, which this House, because we have got radical conversations that are going on, must actually press to adjust that particular aspect, so that when we do revenue allocation, we should look at adjustment factors in terms of growth factors, including things like high cost of living, cost of goods and services, as well as inflation issues that we have in the country at any given point. The second thing I want to talk about is that we are passing the budget for FY 2024/2025 when the last audited accounts were done by the National Assembly in FY 2020/2021. It is imperative that we must take an opportunity either to amend the Constitution or adjust the existing laws that can compel the National Assembly to work with the speed, so that we always have audited finances to be the nearest possible to the financial year that we are passing. For instance, if we base the sharing of revenue on FY 2020/2021 and we are passing for 2024/2025, it will be a raw deal to county governments because it is not equitable and will not help them match the needs of what they are working on. Lastly, we must also caution our governors from making commitments that are national functions. Sometimes they make those commitments to an extent that it claws back on them. For instance, we have seen things like parks that are being built in the counties. We have seen programmes such as Community Health Promoters (CHPs) being shared between national Government and county governments. Our governors end up committing blindly to this---"
},
{
"id": 1408729,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408729/?format=api",
"text_counter": 177,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Eddie, your time is up. Let us listen to Sen. Mo Fire Gataya Mwenda."
},
{
"id": 1408730,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1408730/?format=api",
"text_counter": 178,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Gataya Mo Fire",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to support this important Bill, considering the fact that our core business as the Senate is to make sure that we pass relevant Bills to make sure that counties get money. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Article 96 of the Constitution dictates that- (1) The Senate represents the counties and serves to protect the interests of the counties and their governments. (2) The Senate participates in the law-making function of Parliament by considering, debating, and approving Bills concerning counties, as provided in Articles 109 to 113. At the same time, the Senate must participate in the oversight of state officers by considering and determining any reallocation to remove whatever so many other things. By so saying, I am happy with what the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget has just done because we have increased the money that is supposed to go to counties. However, it is worth noting that we have witnessed rampant corruption in counties. We have devolved corruption nepotism; and a lot of things that are not supposed to be done. It is high time that, as a House, we pronounce ourselves. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}