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"content": "(Motion deferred)"
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"content": "Clerk, proceed with Order No. 18."
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"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"content": "MOTION"
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"content": "REPORTS OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS COUNTY ASSEMBLIES"
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"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Select Committee on County Public Accounts on its consideration of the Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of West Pokot County Assembly for the financial year 2018/2019 and reports of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Isiolo, Kiambu, Kitui, Marsabit, Narok, Nyamira, Trans Nzoia, West Pokot and Murang’a County Assemblies for the financial year 2019/2020 laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 7th March, 2024. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the first eight years of devolution, county assembly financial statements did not get the attention of the Senate. We concentrated mostly on the county executives. It was for a good reason because county executives enjoyed 90 per cent of the budget of county governments. However, this question arose; can the assembly oversight itself? Initially, we thought that county assemblies, through their respective oversight committees, could review and consider reports of the Auditor- General and make recommendations. We thought the architecture of the law, that is the County Governments Act, and the PFM Act were strong enough to allow Members of County Assembly (MCAs) to summon the Clerk and other responsible accounting officers within the assembly and put them to task on issues of financial malpractice flagged by the OAG. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a practical challenge was brought before us. The Clerk is the accounting officer of the county assembly. If the clerk does not respond to invitations by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), the committee needs to issue summonses, which can only be issued under the hand of the clerk of the county assembly. So, it was impossible for the clerk to summon himself or any of his officers. So, you would find a situation where there would be collusion amongst those charged with fiduciary responsibility in county assemblies to frustrate the work of PAC. That is how the Senate started inviting the County Assembly Service Boards (CASBs), Speakers and Clerks of the county assemblies to respond to the issues raised by the Auditor-General. It is not an idle pursuit. Whereas the PFM Act aspires that seven per cent of a county budget should be allocated to the legislative function, over time, the Senate has been generous because we have kept lifting the ceiling. Right now, I would make an approximate average of 12 per cent of county government budgets, which are currently channelled to county assemblies. There are some county assemblies, which are at 13 or 14 per cent while others are at seven or eight per cent. On average, you will find that out of Kshs400 billion that we voted on today to allocate to counties, at least 10 or 11 per cent of that, which is probably Kshs45 billion, will go to county assemblies. Therefore, there is need for county assemblies to be held to account. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
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"speaker": {
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this has brought about some feelings that the Senate is overstepping its mandate. I have seen in some cases where some county assemblies have argued that a county assembly and the national Parliament are at the same level in terms of legislative oversight and representation and all the functions that are granted to us in the Constitution. Therefore, the financial matters of county assemblies should never be brought to Parliament. In as much as we have got our respective powers, there is no institution that is above the law nor beyond oversight. That is why even the financial statements of the national Parliament, particularly the PSC, are audited by the Auditor-General and tabled to the respective committee. County assemblies have argued that since reports of the PSC go to Parliament, reports of the CASBs should also go to the county assemblies. I look forward to the day when our county assemblies will not have adverse opinions and disclaimers. It is absurd for a county assembly whose primary duty is to facilitate staff and MCAs to have adverse opinions. We have seen habits that are unthinkable here in the national Parliament, where Members go on trips and get per diems, but there is no accountability nor submission of returns. I look forward to the day that, when it comes to financial management and controls, county assemblies will be run with the level of efficiency as the national Parliament. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the report that we tabled on the 7th March, 2024, was quite detailed because it dealt with financial statements for the financial years 2018/2019 all the way to 2019/2020. It is the desire of the committee that I have the privilege to chair, that we can be current. At the moment, in the hearings that we have scheduled, we have decided to consolidate the financial statements. As I speak, county assemblies are in the last round of appearing for the financial year up to 2022. By the end of this Session, I assure this House that we will be bringing up to date, current and live reports from the county assemblies. I am also optimistic that of the 47 county assemblies, we will be having more of them with unqualified opinions. To the county assemblies out there, if the accounting officer and the finance team adheres to the requirements of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, and the Public Sector Accounting Standards Board (PSASB) and you have an unqualified opinion, I guarantee them that we will have no business calling them to appear before the Senate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if a county assembly has persistent adverse reports or disclaimers like in the case of Nairobi and Migori, respectively, I assure them that we will not tire to teach, interrogate and probe them, so that they can do the right thing. There are a number of cross cutting issues that apply to most of the county assemblies. Previously, we realised that audit issues tend to rotate around the same things. That is why, we brought to this House the first Fiduciary Risks Report. At the moment, we are working with the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) to come up with the second version of the Fiduciary Risks Report. That report summarises the cross cutting and common themes in the county assemblies and executives. For example, with respect to the county assemblies that we are discussing today, the common The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"id": 1408868,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
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"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
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"content": "challenge is lateness in submission of documents. Most accounting officers do not realise that this is an offence under the Public Audit Act, the PFM Act and the Constitution when you do not provide documents to the Auditor General (AG) for verification within the timelines prescribed therein. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my committee is considering giving effect to the Public Audit Act. One day, we will bring a recommendation to this House that those officers who frustrate the work of the OAG should be found guilty of violation of Section 52 of the Public Audit Act that says- “No public officer or custodian of public records should without justifiable reasons, prevent the AG from accessing those financial records.” Another common theme in most county assemblies is weak record management systems. Thus, it cast doubts on suitability and qualifications of the staff manning those record management systems. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the county assemblies have had a challenge in applying proper accounting practices as stipulated by the PSASB. Even though this report that we are laying excludes certain counties, I bring to the attention of the Senate that recently, there was an uproar within professional circles, particularly amongst accountants. When a county assembly came before the Senate and when we probed who had signed the financial statements, it emerged that it was somebody without the professional or functional capacity. It is not the first time we have seen that. We have seen county governments that have a budget and should know better to hire professionals to render professional services, using quacks and unqualified persons. As such, we have taken issue with the OAG that where financial statements are signed by quacks, they should not be admissible and the OAG should report to the Senate. The issue of reconciliations is a headache to most of the county assemblies as it is to most of the county executives. We have taken the view that persons have been hired to do reconciliations in these entities. Nowadays, we do not stop by pointing fingers at the Speaker or the Clerk of the County Assembly, we have got to the point of naming the officers ---"
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
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"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’ it is 6.30 p.m. When the House resumes, you will have a balance of 50 minutes to your Motion."
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"speaker": null,
"content": "ADJOURNMENT"
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