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{
"id": 1410661,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng'",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Okay. Thank you. Hon. Members, if there is no intervention on that, Hon. Owen Baya has a further amendment to Clause 2. I invite him to move his amendment."
},
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"id": 1410662,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 2 be further amended by deleting the word “all” after the word “review” in Section 14 of the Principal Act and substitute it with the word “any”. It says review all grants and “all” would mean that the Commission needs to do all grants that have been issued. When we substitute it with the word “any”, it will mean that any claim that is presented to the committee."
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{
"id": 1410663,
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"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng'",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1410664,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410664/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question of the further amendment proposed)"
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"id": 1410665,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410665/?format=api",
"text_counter": 177,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng'",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Yes, Hon. Oundo."
},
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"id": 1410666,
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"text_counter": 178,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Chairperson, that is a progressive amendment and we need to support it. But let me go back to the gist of the amendments in totality. I am not so sure whether the National Land Commission has reported that it was unable to complete the review process as contemplated in the original Act, but that is now water under the bridge. He has raised a fairly good idea. But what happens to that person who does not know the indolent? In equity, we do not wake up a sleeping dog. What happens? He has proposed the word “any” but the amendment by the Committee has the word “all”. It means that all the grants and the disposition that has been made will be reviewed. Again, a time frame is not given. They can take 100 or 300 years. We need more clarity. After how long? It is not fair for one to be given a title and nobody objects, he invests to improve the property and then somebody comes and makes a claim. Is that claim limited by the statute of limitation of 12 years? Or does it exclude that limitation of action so that we leave it open completely throughout? We need that clarity. As I always say, when we are making laws, we must be sticklers to the details to avoid a situation where too much room is left to interpret the law as there are many lawyers in the House. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman."
},
{
"id": 1410667,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410667/?format=api",
"text_counter": 179,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng'",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you. Hon. Baya. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
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{
"id": 1410668,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410668/?format=api",
"text_counter": 180,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Chairman I have followed what Hon. Oundo, our good Professor of planning, has said. Yes, there have been those questions. The answer to those questions lies in the Constitution. I invite him to look at what Article 67(2)(e) of the Constitution provides. It provides that to initiate investigations, on its own initiative or on a complaint, into present or historical land injustices, the word “present” cannot be limited to a certain framework of time. Therefore, to put a limitation on the Constitution through a statute by saying that we only limit it to five years or ten years or 20 years, is defeating the letter and spirit of the Constitution. Therefore, I would like to invite Hon. Oundo to look at it from the prism of the Constitution and agree that we need to do away with the time frame. That is because the Constitution does not envisage a time frame for historical land injustices of the present and of the past."
},
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"id": 1410669,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410669/?format=api",
"text_counter": 181,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng'",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you."
},
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"id": 1410670,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1410670/?format=api",
"text_counter": 182,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Although Hon. Owen has quoted the Constitution, I have read the Bill and I have noticed that there must have been a reason to have a time limit. There are land injustices and some of them are broader and deeper than the level we have imagined. We will be opening a pandora’s box if we do an entire review, even when we limit it to a time frame. I am a historian and I know there was land alienation. But that gives people space to ask for a review of an earlier period before land alienation took place. I would want to hear Hon. Owen Baya's views on that."
}
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}