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{
"id": 1412251,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412251/?format=api",
"text_counter": 235,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": " I said a senior police officer who has the capacity and ability to command other officers. That tells you it is from the rank of a Sergeant, an Officer Commanding a Police Station (OCS), an Officer in Charge of Police in a District (OCPD), a County Commander, a Regional Commander, a Deputy Inspector-General or an Inspector-General. I did not name anybody, and I am not at liberty at this stage to do so, so as not to jeopardise the ongoing investigations. I know the owners of the land are preparing to petition this House when the investigations are over, and we shall name them. This Administration, under President William Ruto, does not condone theft of public land by whoever; whether you are a police officer or a chief. Yesterday in my constituency, I had to intervene on a certain case: An Assistant Chief had grabbed land belonging to 130 squatters and subdivided it among seven members. I thank the area Deputy County Commissioner for quickly intervening to ensure that the people of Ruanyaga get back their rightful share. Once we restore the powers under Sections 14 and 15 of the National Land Commission Act, the NLC will use this to safeguard a lot of public land in many counties. An example is Kiambaa Constituency in Kiambu County, where you will not find a single piece of public land – not even a half an acre – on which to implement the affordable housing agenda. The Government of Kenya has this opportunity to actualise the affordable housing agenda and ensure that grabbed public land is restored back to the public. You have seen many people across the country crying foul when the national Government moved to repossess land. The Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development needs not fight with anybody but just give or issues of grabbed public land to the NLC. The Commission will have powers to revoke those titles and evict those occupying public land, and then we can then implement affordable housing projects on the land. That is the case in many of our urban centres, and not just in Nairobi City County. Before the Leader of the Minority Party rose on a point of order, I was saying that you saw the Cabinet Secretary of Lands being stopped from accessing land by a group of goons in Loresho the other day. She went to help a private citizen whose land was being grabbed. It is not by accident that all these things touch on the police and are happening in Nairobi. It is not by accident. I have taken liberty to speak to it because I hear many people in Nairobi are threatened not to talk about it. We shall talk about it here. To the officer abusing his powers to grab land in Nairobi, your day is coming. In Kiswahili they say siku za mwizi ni arubaini. The 40th day is coming. We, as an institution and as leaders, must play a part in ensuring that we empower our institutions. There is no better institution to empower other than an independent constitutional commission created by our Constitution of 2010. I agree with those who have argued and subscribed to the idea that the particular provisions giving them a timeframe of five years was, indeed, unconstitutional. On the hindsight, it is only up to this House to correct that anomaly. Therefore, I support this Bill. I congratulate the Member of Kilifi North, who is also the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, for bringing it to the House and giving life to Sections 14 and 15 of the National Land Commission Act once more. I support."
},
{
"id": 1412252,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412252/?format=api",
"text_counter": 236,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Caroli Omondi, the Member for Suba South."
},
{
"id": 1412253,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412253/?format=api",
"text_counter": 237,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Caroli Omondi",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak on this proposed amendment Bill. I begin by acknowledging the great mischief perpetrated by whoever drafted Section 14 that we are seeking to amend. If you read it in totality, you first get the impression that there were noble intentions when they say “within five years.” You also get the impression that the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1412254,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412254/?format=api",
"text_counter": 238,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Caroli Omondi",
"speaker": null,
"content": "purpose was to give time for expedition of the filing and determination of any reviews regarding grants and disposition of public land. If you go down, you realise that such reviews and determinations require to be completed for all grants and dispositions. The words ‘if all.’ That means anything that was done, probably from 1963 to 2010. That comes to 2015. You can clearly see the mischief in a law that creates an impossible task to perform. I support the proposal by Hon. Owen Baya that we delete “within five years” in that section. We should equally delete “all” and insert “any” so that it becomes a continuous process. I wanted to point out to the Leader of the Minority Party that Section 14 deals with alienation of public land. Historical injustices are under Section 15. If you read it, you can clearly see that a very serious mischief was created. I will be moving an amendment so that we delete the phrase “all grants and dispositions” and put “any” at the appropriate time. If we do not do that, what this limitation of five years means is that you cannot review any grant or disposition after five years. That is after 2015. They were shielding whoever would be dealing with alienation or disposition of public land after that five-year period."
},
{
"id": 1412255,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412255/?format=api",
"text_counter": 239,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Caroli Omondi",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Secondly, if you go to Section 5, it says, “the commission finds that the title was acquired in an unlawful manner, the commission shall direct the registrar to revoke the title.” That is the correct procedure because unlawful allocation is where public land that was not available for alienation is given out. That has been very common. What is unlawful is not defined. We will need to create some definition for that. If you go down to Section 5(6), you will find that irregularly acquired is defined, but certain elements critical to what this Act needs to address are missing. Irregularly acquired land is where land is available for allocation but the correct procedure was never followed. In that case, the drafters were very clever. They are saying they will not recommend revocation but rectification where there is irregular allocation. You will be given a chance to remedy the wrong. What they are not saying is that you will become a beneficiary of your fraud where the irregularity was tainted with fraud and deliberately fraudulent. We need to relook at the definition because irregular allocation is defined in the Act. We need to look at that and distinguish honest mistake or irregularity from deliberate fraud. In that case, if that is established, revocation should follow because you cannot benefit from illegal activity. Section 5(7) says, “no revocation of the title shall be effected against a bona fide purchaser for value without notice of defect in the title.” The lawyers in the House will tell you that there is a principle in law and Latin known as nemo dat quod non habet . You cannot give that which does not belong to you. You cannot pass a better title than the one you have. If it is established that your title was fraudulent, a third-party purchaser equally cannot get a better title. There are exceptions. This is one of them. It is a good exception where an innocent purchaser has bought a property without having defect in the title. What they do not tell you is that the original beneficiary or the person who committed the fraud, if not compelled to undertake restitution, becomes a beneficiary of his or her fraud. In other words, there will be cases of unjust enrichment where people will benefit from illegal activities. Again, we will be proposing an amendment. In case of irregular or unlawful allocation, the person who committed the fraud will be required to make restitution either to the state or to the person who paid them. They should make restitution to the person who paid them where there is a revocation. Where there is just restitution, they should be required to pay whatever they received or the value of the property depending on whichever is higher. Further, I would like to go to the historical injustices in Section 17(3)(d) where my Leader of the Minority Party was very passionate. They imposed a five-year limit to historical injustices. It takes time if you want to look at historical documents in order to handle a matter and show that you were displaced, and your community lived there. Some of these documents are not even within the Republic of Kenya. They are in the archives in England. It was a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1412256,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412256/?format=api",
"text_counter": 240,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Caroli Omondi",
"speaker": null,
"content": "mischief. I support the deletion of this clause so that issues of historical injustice or review of grants or disposition of public land are continuous and permanent power vested in the NLC. As we undertake all these things, I want to point out that we need to be very careful. When you deal with land, there is very serious potential to disrupt the good commercial order of society. You can see the case of Zimbabwe, where the food basket has become a basket case by, again, issues of land. There are also very serious complications. When you are dealing with historical issues in Africa you need to remember, like in the case of Kenya, that the first formal registration of land was in 1905 and this law talks about 1895. So where do you start and where do you get the materials? The communal land ownership in Kenya was very fluid. There were no common boundaries. We used to have what was called usufructuary rights. You used land, then you moved on when you got tired of it. To make matters even worse, the coastal strip had a different legal system. We had the Sultan of Oman exercising domain at the coast and establishing land. That is why we have the Mazrui Land Act and all those other issues. I would ask that as we support, let us have an open mind and we make those amendments as I have suggested. Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1412257,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412257/?format=api",
"text_counter": 241,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Millie Odhiambo, are you on a point of order? Yes, you may proceed."
},
{
"id": 1412258,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412258/?format=api",
"text_counter": 242,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I rise on Standing Order 1. I do not have my Standing Orders here, but this is something that can be within your discretion. We are proceeding in this House like everything is normal. We are hearing rumours of an air crash involving the Chief of Defence Forces (CDF), Francis Ogolla and five others. That is something of national interest and serious national concern. The Leader of the Majority Party is here. I think it would be good if he can allay our fears on whether it is true or not so that we can deal with this. I think it would be appropriate for us, as a House, not to proceed with the National Land Commission Bill when we are having such a serious national issue of national interest. Can he confirm whether the issue of the crash is true or whether it is merely a rumour? This is a very serious issue. Can we, please, be updated? Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1412259,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412259/?format=api",
"text_counter": 243,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Leader of Majority Party, are you able to respond?"
},
{
"id": 1412260,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1412260/?format=api",
"text_counter": 244,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I hear what Hon. Millie has said. I confirm that, indeed, it is true that there has been a crash of a Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) helicopter, which we have seen in the news. Being responsible leaders, we do not want to speculate as to the cause of the crash. We are all awaiting news. It is being reported in the news that a number of people have lost their lives and there are few who have survived. It is only fair that we leave it to the KDF, because they are already on the ground, to confirm how many people have lost their lives and how many have survived. Let them establish the identities of those who were there and first communicate to their kin before the news is broken in any other manner. That is the most responsible thing to do. Let me take this opportunity to convey my condolences to the families of those who may have lost loved ones in that crash. It is unfortunate that that had to happen. I am told the helicopter crashed somewhere in Elgeyo Marakwet. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg that we leave it at that so that we do not get into speculation since we do not know which officers were on that flight, who has survived and who has passed on. Let us allow the relevant authorities to do what they need to do – like, first, communicate to the families of the ones who may have lost their lives. The country will be updated by the relevant authorities at the right time. I really beg that we leave that matter as it is for now. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
}
]
}