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"id": 1412841,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Hon. Mathenge."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Nyeri Town, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Duncan Mathenge",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Speaker, I have a supplementary question."
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"id": 1412843,
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Go ahead. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
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"speaker_name": "Nyeri Town, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Duncan Mathenge",
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"content": " Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Going by the explanation given by the Cabinet Secretary, the means testing system is an algorithm that will be applied to an assessment done on households. An algorithm is blind to realities and Artificial Intelligence (AI) is insensitive to real life. Let me give an example of an elderly lady in Nyeri known as Mama Waziri, who is about 87 years old. She lives in a stone house with corrugated iron sheets, she is supplied with piped water and has a television set. She has been a widow for the last 27 years. At any one time when we are distributing relief food in Ruringu Muslim village, she is always number one on the list. How will this algorithm capture the reality of Mama Waziri's life despite the appearance of her dwelling? Secondly, is this 2.75 per cent payment from the income of households that are not in employment annually in advance against the 2.75 per cent deductions for people who have a payslip? Is this not an unfair administration action? Where you are charging the same percentage but one set of residents in this country has to pay monthly deductions and another one has to pay annually. That is discrimination in my view, which is expressly prohibited by our Constitution."
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you. Hon. Sunkuli, you will be the only joyrider there. Give him the microphone. Very well."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilgoris, JP",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Julius Sunkuli",
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"content": " Hon Speaker, I want to appreciate the Cabinet Secretary for her determination in setting up this new law. She has exhibited a lot of competencies. I want to ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify that there are no regulations yet. Tomorrow, she will appear before the Committee on Delegated Legislation to present those draft regulations for passing. More substantively, we have discussed, in the Departmental Committee on Health, that what she is calling Means Testing Instrument is a very complicated tool. Who will be carrying out the means testing? Is it untrue that the results will be very subjective? What one person is paying will be very different from what another is paying. It is like sitting in a plane where you do not know what the other customer has paid. Who will carry out this means testing? It is very complicated. Why not come up with a flat rate for people to pay?"
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Cabinet Secretary, can you answer those short questions in a minute or two?"
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"speaker_name": "Ms. Susan Nakhumicha",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Health",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Speaker and Hon. Members. We discussed this extensively during the development of regulations. Means testing is a scientific tool that is developed by actuaries and health economists. I also want to confirm that we have CHPs on the ground who know the real and true characteristic of each community member. So, this will be put into consideration as well. I also want to confirm that once a tool is developed, it is subjected to piloting. That is when the issues that come out of that tool can be responded to. So, the adjustments will be done as we continue to implement. On the regulations, Hon. Sunkuli, we were with you when we met the Committee on Delegated Legislation. We submitted the regulations. They have since been gazetted and submitted to this House for discussions. Thank you, Hon. Speaker and Hon. Members."
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Esther Passaris, ask both your Questions. Minister, you will take Questions 87 and 88 at the same time."
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"speaker": null,
"content": "Question 087/2024"
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