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"id": 1415211,
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"content": "The Message is delivered. Therefore, we will go back to the National Disaster Risk Management Bill. Do I assume that all these requests refer to this particular Bill? I have requests from Hon. Liza Chelule, Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe, Hon. Danson Mwashako, Hon. Ibrahim Saney, Hon. David Kiplagat and Hon. Gertrude Mbeyu. Do you all want to speak to this Bill or some of the requests are different issues? I can see that they are on different interests. Hon. Oundo, do you want to speak to this Bill? If so, you may proceed."
},
{
"id": 1415212,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1415212/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the National Disaster Risk Management Bill (National Assembly Bill No.24 of 2023). As you have clearly mentioned, this Bill was presented in this House in the last term. For some strange reasons, I do not know whether we did not complete it or it was transmitted to the Senate, and therefore, did not see the light of day. Maybe it was never processed to its logical conclusion. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the world is changing rapidly. It is changing either positively or negatively. We always say that we are always a disaster away from a disaster. We are just a point away from a disaster. A disaster can happen anywhere and at any time. That is why it is always important that we have a broader approach when we define a disaster. As we stand here The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1415213,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1415213/?format=api",
"text_counter": 505,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "today, this country has recorded very many disasters. I look at the word “disaster” in the fully negative aspect of it. Therefore, a good progressive society must hinge its management of affairs on three things – (i) Anything can go wrong. (ii) Anything can go wrong any time. (iii) We must be prepared to face it when anything goes wrong. That is so that we minimise loss because of anything going wrong. This is an elaborate Bill. I want to start by picking areas that require attention. I hope the Chairman or Mover of the Bill is listening. If he is not listening, The Hansard is recording. First, from an academic and theoretical point of view, the definition of “risk” under Clause 2 is restrictive and outdated. It no longer applies. A risk does not always have to be negative. A risk can be positive or negative."
},
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"id": 1415214,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1415214/?format=api",
"text_counter": 506,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
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"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
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"content": " Hon. Moses Kirima, what is out of order?"
},
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"id": 1415215,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Moses Kirima spoke off the record)"
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{
"id": 1415216,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " He has abandoned his point of order. My one minute has been eaten up as he was trying to abandon his point of order. As I was saying, clearly, a risk is an occurrence of unforeseen event. That is the basic definition of ‘risk’, whether negative or positive. A risk should be defined as an occurrence of unforeseen event. A risk should be seen as an occurrence of unbudgeted or unexpected events. In the Bill, its promoters have already defined ‘risk’ as a combination probability of an event occurring with negative consequences. Again, we already have a negative approach to addressing disaster. Let me give you a very typical example. The floods water that end up in Budalang’i come from Mount Elgon all the way down. As the water come down, it comes with fish. As much as people are displaced temporarily, they have an abundant harvest of fish once the water subsides. Disaster is never just about negative consequence. When there is rapid flow of water coming down, if we do dam water harvesting and tapping, it is not a negative consequence at all. Therefore, I want the Committee to look at this matter. Definitely, I will look at it. That is why I am saying the Bill is drafted from a negative point of view. On disaster and risk management, again, we are so consummated with addressing or responding post-facto instead of finding out why risks occur. In the US, through a history of information gathering processes and modern technology, they can predict when cyclones will hit them. Again, the definition of ‘disaster risk management’ is not in the Bill. Early detection, modelling and prediction are not included here. We are simply interested in attending to the issues that happen. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the structures in Part II of this Bill are very bureaucratic. This is another bureaucracy-laden framework that will not allow rapid response to disasters. The Departmental Committee Chairman mentioned that they will propose amendments. I have always had issues with ‘promissory notes’ contained in Committee reports to the effect that they will amend or that we should take less time to debate and accept that amendments will be made. What if we are pre-empting debate? That is anticipating debate. We do not know what the outcome of the Committee of the whole House will be. So, this is very heavy. It will not move. The relationship between the national Government and the county governments is already prescribed in the Constitution, and in the County Government Act. Creating another bureaucracy is, again, literally bogging down response. Again, this is government-driven and government-heavy yet we have very many corporates, Community Based Organisations (CBOs) and other non-state actors that are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1415217,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1415217/?format=api",
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"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "probably better equipped to address matters of risk compared to the Government. We now have another bureaucracy called the National Disaster Risk Management Authority that comes with authority, fanya fujo uone . Ninety nine per cent of this is about the Cabinet and nobody else. It is as if only the Cabinet can think and manage disasters. From history, we know that a number of disasters are caused by landslides. We cannot have a body like this one without incorporating the physical planners who are experts in this matter in order to deal with visual-spatial planning to avoid settlements in landslide prone areas. We cannot afford to ignore spatial planners in terms of riparian reserves. Some lakes or rivers overflow because we have invaded riparian reserves and have taken away the safeguard that used to exist. We seem to believe only in the Kenya Red Cross Society as pertains to emergencies. What if other non-state actors emerge? What will be their place? Will they become subservient and ride on the back of the Kenya Red Cross Society. St John Ambulance Services and the Scouts Movement have been at the forefront in attending to disasters. Excluding them from any representation in this Authority, or anywhere, is a matter that surely requires to be addressed. We cannot fail to attend to professional bodies like the Institute of Engineers. When a building collapses, who is responsible? It is the engineers who have designed the building badly and have not supervised its construction properly. These are some of the issues that should be addressed. I like some of the classifications under Part III. They talk about risk management experts and private sector volunteer experts. Are they going to be registered? Are they going to be licensed? Are they going to be trained? How do we find out? Hon. Temporary Speaker, there is a terrible disaster waiting to happen. I would like you to add me one minute so that I can conclude. I was disrupted when they were withdrawing the threatening Motion."
},
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"id": 1415218,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
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"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
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"content": " Give Hon. Oundo three minutes because he is very relevant."
},
{
"id": 1415219,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. In Clause 34 of the Bill, essentially, they are handing the President powers of declaration of a state of emergency in addition to the provisions clearly stipulated under Article 132 of the Constitution. I want the nation to hear very clearly what Clause 34(1) says. It states that in the event of a national disaster, the President may declare a National State of Disaster by notice in the Gazette. That is without any reference to Parliament. It adds that the declaration shall contain a concise statement of reasons for the declaration and the duration of the declaration. Again, this is without any reference to this House, contrary to provisions of Article 132 of the Constitution. The list of sanctions that are to be imposed limit personal liberties, contrary to the Bill of Rights contained in the Constitution of Kenya. I challenge the Committee to relook at this so that we build consensus. We do not want the kind of abuse that was perpetuated by police officers during the lockdown as a result of Covid-19. As a country, we should never get there. We must prepare adequately for disasters. I am not so sure on how we should interface with a pandemic because many times a declared pandemic is actually a disaster. How do we interface that? This is the kind of thinking we need to focus on. We have an elaborate disaster management system under the county governments. We are fixated with more formal structures believing it is only county governments that have the capacity to identify a risk or a disaster. As I conclude, a disaster will cause damages but the aftermath of a disaster has benefits. Can the Committee open up their mind and look at this issue in a more positive manner and not negatively all the time? When an accident happens, it gives designers, for example, of motor vehicles ideas to design better vehicles that will avoid major failures later. If we close our minds, we will never solve problems. They will keep recurring and if they do, we must be The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
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"id": 1415220,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1415220/?format=api",
"text_counter": 512,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "prepared for mitigation measures. I will introduce amendments to this Bill during the Committee of the whole House. Thank you."
}
]
}