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{
"id": 1462422,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462422/?format=api",
"text_counter": 270,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, wait until the hon. Senator completes his point of order."
},
{
"id": 1462423,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462423/?format=api",
"text_counter": 271,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I am wondering whether my good friend is now losing his memory. He has just been told that I am on a point of order and he has to be patient. If I can just finish on the clarification, I am seeking from the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay. I would like to know whether that illegality equates to being smart and how we are going to deal with it. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1462424,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462424/?format=api",
"text_counter": 272,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, proceed and throw more light and clarity on the issue you have been asked. Sen. (Dr.) Bonie, what is your point of clarification?"
},
{
"id": 1462425,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462425/?format=api",
"text_counter": 273,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 170,
"legal_name": "Bonny Khalwale",
"slug": "bonny-khalwale"
},
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a House of rules and because he was on a point of order, I was constrained. I wanted to challenge him on a point of order. The clarification I want you to make is, is it right for a Member to hide in a Standing Order, so as to debate a point when he has already been given an opportunity to debate? He is out of order. I might be an old dog, which is a good thing because the old dog knows all the rules."
},
{
"id": 1462426,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462426/?format=api",
"text_counter": 274,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is on your own admission of how you have been described, but nonetheless, he has sought a clarification, which is in order. He has also referenced a section in law to distinguish whether that act of illegality can be referred to as a smart action. Sen. M. Kajwang’, it is in order for you to clarify exactly what your submission intended to mean."
},
{
"id": 1462427,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462427/?format=api",
"text_counter": 275,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
"legal_name": "Moses Otieno Kajwang'",
"slug": "moses-otieno-kajwang"
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"content": "Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, I was with Sen. Ledama Olekina in drafting the fiduciary risk report I have referred to. It has his footprints all over and I remember we spent a lot of time with him in retreats and report writing. It is a report that my Committee hopes to bring back to the House. We pointed out that illegality. It is for that reason that the House adopted our report and said that those contributions were irregular. They were irregularities and illegalities by drawing money from county revenue funds rather than the Consolidated Fund, which statute requires should be the route through which the Council is funded. We even said, assuming that I was the secretary general of a political party and I am not getting the money I am supposed to be getting from the Political Parties Fund, should county governments contribute towards the welfare of that political party? No, because in law, political parties should be funded from that Fund. In law, the COG and the IGRTC should be funded from the Consolidated Fund. However, we must give it to those who established the COG. It is difficult to build institutions. We must give it to even the founding Members of this House. The National Assembly was in existence and there were structures. The founding Speaker, the Clerk, staff and Members had a tough responsibility to give effect to a new provision of the Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is that ingenuity that I am talking about on the part of the CEO and the founding team of the COG. They gave it visibility, credibility and a voice that was louder than the IGRTC which was supposed to be the bigger institution. That is what I meant by saying that they outsmarted the IGRTC. To date, with Ms. Mary Mwiti as the CEO, you will still hear the COG more than you will hear the IGRTC. The IGRTC has been led by very distinguished citizens. The Transition Authority (TA) was led by Kinuthia Wamwangi, who still continues to be a voice of reason and wisdom, when it comes to devolution. There was Prof. Karega Mutahi and from where I come from, we hold him in very high regard. This is because, he came to Mfangano Island, an area that did not have schools and he established a school called; Prof. Karega Mutahi School. It is right in the middle of Mfangano Island and it is a school that has provided opportunities to many residents of Mfangano Island. Currently, Mr. Githinji Kiragu, is the Chair of the IGRTC and we are happy that it is during his tenure, they have brought this amendment for us to have clarity. Madam Temporary Speaker, let the Committee on Devolution ask the COG why we cannot find a way of acting in a complementary manner. Why is it we have always been acting in a competitive manner and yet ultimately, those with the responsibility in this Constitution, to defend and protect devolution, counties and their governments is this Senate? As we give effect and separate and give funding arrangements to the COG, let them not imagine that they shall be in competition with the Senate. Let them also not imagine that they shall be superior to the Senate."
},
{
"id": 1462428,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462428/?format=api",
"text_counter": 276,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
"legal_name": "Moses Otieno Kajwang'",
"slug": "moses-otieno-kajwang"
},
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, the IGRTC has a lot of work to do as far as assets and liabilities are concerned. This job was started during Kinuthia Wamwangi’s time and it is still stuck. Counties have done verification of assets and liabilities but the IGRTC has not concluded this report. That is why I wonder, if we make them an agency, are they going to move faster than they were moving when they were a technical committee? Costing of functions and transfer of functions; moving too slow. Nowadays we are just bandying figures around what counties should get but we are not quantifying the cost of providing those services. This is something this Agency ought to have done and we hope that they will do it now that we have provided greater clarity. Transfer of functions: Nairobi City County is one example of transfer of functions gone bad. Hundreds of billions of shillings were sank in the Nairobi Metropolitan Services (NMS) and today we do not know how that money was used. I recently demanded the Auditor-General’s report on the Presidency be tabled in this House. I was assured that it would be brought here. Madam Temporary Speaker, the expenditure of the NMS was hidden under the Presidency. When we talked to the governor for Nairobi, he told us that he could only account for 30 percent of the revenues we sent. For the other 70 percent, he told us to go to the Presidency. Those are issues that this Agency ought to have resolved. On dispute resolution; we are getting the third impeachment Motion coming to this House and without anticipating the matter, we take judicial notice that there could have been decisions in Meru County. What role has this entity that is mandated to resolve disputes in county governments and between counties and the national Government done to save the people of Meru, from this perennial and seasonal impeachment Motions? Madam Temporary Speaker, we must demand---"
},
{
"id": 1462429,
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"text_counter": 277,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, you will have five minutes when we resume debate."
},
{
"id": 1462430,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462430/?format=api",
"text_counter": 278,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 3rd September, 2024, at 2.30 p.m."
},
{
"id": 1462431,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462431/?format=api",
"text_counter": 279,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m."
}
]
}