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{
"id": 1462802,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462802/?format=api",
"text_counter": 371,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Senator, proceed to make your contributions to this Motion."
},
{
"id": 1462803,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462803/?format=api",
"text_counter": 372,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be brief. First of all, I thank the Select Committees for the work and effort they have put although the reports are still postmortem. I saw the Chairperson here. I urge them to do more so that these reports are up to date. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if we are debating reports of the Committee covering the financial years 2018/2019 and 2019/2020 at this time in 2024, you can appreciate the concerns that Kenyans have. We have to bring the review of these reports up to date. There are a few things in the reports that one can notice straightaway. There are a lot of financial errors and unaccounted for expenditures. Many of these county assemblies that have been mentioned here like West Pokot, Kiambu, Isiolo, Marsabit, Narok, Nyamira and so on, have financial gaps and misappropriations that have occurred within the mentioned years. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what surprises me is that every time the PAC is sitting, we have representations from the Office of the Auditor General (OAG) and the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). They sit there and collect allowances while they see these mistakes every time the PAC sits. These agencies, particularly, the EACC are spending public money to sit there, hear that a certain officer or a certain governor has been accused of misappropriation of funds and abuse of office in these county assemblies and Executives and they take no action. So, I propose that we remove some of those officers because it is a drain on public money. If you go there and you are not adding any value, you should be removed from sitting in the PAC. We know what the Senators, the Secretariat, the Auditor General and his officers are doing there, but why does the EACC sit there? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, up to now, they have not prosecuted a single person. This Report has even mentioned officers who have misappropriated public funds and failed to account in these county assemblies and yet, not a single one has even been called to record a statement yet, the EACC is just sitting there. I propose that we now relook--- If we are serious, then people should be arrested and charged. If we do not want to do it, then let us at least save the public money that is spent on allowances. People sitting there every day the Committee is sitting, going home tired, listening to all this jargon and there is nothing that comes out of it--- I have wondered; why is it that even the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) does not sit there? The DPP is actually the prosecuting authority, the DCI and EACC are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only.A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and Audio Services,Senate."
},
{
"id": 1462804,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462804/?format=api",
"text_counter": 373,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "investigating agencies. Why should we put the EACC there to earn allowances and yet, the DCI and the DPP do not sit in the PAC? Their mandates are very clear, that, if there is a complaint or an issue, you are supposed to make a formal request, they act upon it and then forward the file to the DPP for further action. There is no justification of the DCI sitting in the PAC. That is why they do not sit there. Equally, there is no justification for the EACC to sit in that Committee and drain public resources, being paid money for attending Senate meetings. The initial idea was that when these officers sit there, they are able to act in real time, but there is nothing they do. I ask that we review this. I pray that the Chairman of the Senate PAC, Sen. Kajwang’ and the Members will review if there is a justification for these people sitting there. Who have they seen being prosecuted from the work they have done up to now? If there is no result in what we are investing in, as a good businessman, you withdraw that investment and put that money where it matters. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other thing that needs to be said about this is that; in Kenya now, nobody really actually cares whether we do these reports or not. Why? It is because people no longer fear. Accounting officers who are in charge of the county public assemblies have no fear because there are no consequences. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, apart from these ones that we are debating here today, even in county government, accounting officers have no fear. This is because since the beginning of this Fourth Senate, not a single individual has been arrested, charged or taken to court. Those who served, like in this report, 2019, in these county assemblies that we have enumerated here, not a single one of them has been even called to record a statement. We have created a culture where “stealing a goat worth Kshs7,000 or Kshs8,000 is not a problem but stealing Kshs2 million or Kshs20 million from the county assembly or county government coffers is not something to worry about.” Those officers come before the Senate and leave freely without any action being taken against them. My humble prayer is that---"
},
{
"id": 1462805,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462805/?format=api",
"text_counter": 374,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairperson",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Mungatana, did I hear you say stealing a goat worth Kshs7,000 is nothing to worry about?"
},
{
"id": 1462806,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462806/?format=api",
"text_counter": 375,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana EGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Did you hear, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir?"
},
{
"id": 1462807,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462807/?format=api",
"text_counter": 376,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairperson",
"speaker": null,
"content": " I am asking if I heard you say that stealing a goat worth Kshs7,000 or 8,000 is nothing as compared to stealing Kshs2 million from the county government?"
},
{
"id": 1462808,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462808/?format=api",
"text_counter": 377,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana EGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Absolutely, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If these gentlemen had not distracted you, the fundamental point I was making is that we have created a culture. The underlying statement was that stealing a goat worth Kshs7,000 is punished seriously. The Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI) investigates it, they take it to the magistrate and the thieves are punished. However, when you steal millions from the coffers of the county assemblies, these ones mentioned here, nothing happens to you. We have created a culture in Kenya where financial misappropriation is, in fact, a heroic act but when you steal a goat, you are persecuted. You are not only prosecuted but The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only.A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and Audio Services,Senate."
},
{
"id": 1462809,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462809/?format=api",
"text_counter": 378,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana EGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "also persecuted. For us to develop this nation, to push it one step ahead, we must change this culture. We must put more strict laws and arrest people. We must return the fear back into public service. If you are working in these county assemblies and you have misappropriated funds, people must see you recording a statement with the DCI and answering charges. This does not happen in this country yet we ask ourselves why we are not moving forward in terms of our development. The leakages are there, the T-junctions are so many in the Public Accounts reports for this county assembly. Something needs to be done. With those few remarks, I beg to support this report. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1462810,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462810/?format=api",
"text_counter": 379,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairperson",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Members, from my dashboard here, no other Member who is keen on contributing to this Motion. Similarly, we do not have a Mover who we could have given the opportunity to reply. Therefore, in the circumstances, we will defer so that we allow the Mover of this Motion to reply when the House resumes in our next sitting. Therefore, we defer this particular Motion to the next sitting."
},
{
"id": 1462811,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1462811/?format=api",
"text_counter": 380,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Debate on the Motion was adjourned)"
}
]
}