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{
"id": 1464452,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464452/?format=api",
"text_counter": 333,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": "Hon. John Waweru."
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{
"id": 1464453,
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"text_counter": 334,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dagoretti South, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Kiarie",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank you. I am also very pleasantly surprised to have the pole position to be the first one to speak on this Motion. Allow me to just commend the format in which this Report has been moved. The Mover has done a beautiful job. The man who has supported it is Dr Oundo. We all know the quality of debates that he brings to this House. He has supported and seconded this Report very ably. He has informed the House on the processes that they have taken to get us to where we are. I support this Report because I believe that this Committee ably applied itself, before it presented this Report to the House. Allow me at this juncture to also take this opportunity to congratulate Hon. John Mbadi, a long-serving Member of this House, who was also chairing this Committee. I am sure he was part of this process. I need to congratulate him on his new appointment as the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning. The PAC has laid before us a very important Report. I would like to take some time to appreciate the process that it undertook as provided for by Article 226(4) of the Constitution, and also the laws as provided for in the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act which has The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464454,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464454/?format=api",
"text_counter": 335,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dagoretti South, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Kiarie",
"speaker": null,
"content": "provided for the process that has been well spoken to by Hon. Tindi Mwale when he was moving this Report. These are the things I would like to say about the procurement of an external auditor who is needed to come to audit the accounts of the Office of the Auditor-General. He is also required to check the financial statements for the staff mortgage and car loan scheme at the Office of the Auditor-General. Who is required to basically audit the Auditor-General? If we are satisfied that the process that was undertaken delivered us the right people who are the PKF, then we must task them to do the work that they are required to do."
},
{
"id": 1464455,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464455/?format=api",
"text_counter": 336,
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"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) left the Chair]"
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{
"id": 1464456,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464456/?format=api",
"text_counter": 337,
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"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Omboko Milemba) took the Chair]"
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{
"id": 1464457,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464457/?format=api",
"text_counter": 338,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dagoretti South, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Kiarie",
"speaker": null,
"content": "If it is so, as it has been reported by Dr Oundo, the process of procurement is becoming either inefficient or not delivering the right people. At this point, the House must say that the process of procurement of an external auditor for the Office of the Auditor-General needs to be re-checked. The issues that have been raised here are critical. It cannot be coincidence or by design that the people who are up against PKF found themselves into some technical issues which even border on integrity matters. The presentation of fake certificates before a vetting entity for an auditor should be a matter that raises the eyebrows of this House. As it has been said, this auditor is required to audit the auditor who audits other auditors who audit the books in this Republic to ensure that there is prudent use of public finances in this country. If there is a blemish on the process which was undertaken, then we know that the product is only as good as the process. So, if the matter of procurement is brought to disrepute, then even the working of that entity shall be brought to disrepute. However, if the Committee is satisfied that M/s PKF Kenya LLP, according to the laws and the Constitution of this country should be the audit firm auditing the Auditor- General's Office, then so be it. As per the Report presented, the Committee is satisfied. We have no other reason not to be satisfied. Now, when we task them to do the job, we pray that the audits that they are going to conduct shall be independent, and more so audit that can stand up to international auditing standards. If they could observe this, then we shall see a number of things. I do not want to pre- empt their work, however, if they apply themselves properly on this job, I am sure that in their findings, they shall find that the Office of the Auditor-General, as currently constituted, is not able to undertake all the work that it is tasked to do. This is an office that is central here in Nairobi and is required not only to audit national books, but also to audit the county governments, and Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs). They are the same people who audit the NG-CDF. As it is currently constituted, I can feel the strain that is in this office. So, if these auditors are going to do their work right, they shall audit and they shall find that, as currently constituted, the Office of the Auditor-General is inefficiently composed to undertake the job that it is required to do. If it applies itself to this work, it is required, as Dr Oundo said earlier, to go beyond just auditing the numbers, the bottom lines and balancing out the books. An audit today requires for a systems audit. I dare say, it also requires a welfare audit; the auditing of the welfare and the terms of individuals working in this office. Hon. Temporary Speaker, on one occasion, I happened to sit next to the former Auditor- General, a very esteemed Kenyan, Mr Edward Ouko, on a flight from Mombasa to Nairobi. I was shocked with what I heard. I came to learn that anybody serving in the Office of the Auditor-General enjoys no perks and no other terms after their retirement. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464458,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464458/?format=api",
"text_counter": 339,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dagoretti South, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Kiarie",
"speaker": null,
"content": "A person sitting in such an esteemed office is not sure of how they shall pay their hospital bills when they leave office. They are not sure of how they shall take care of their welfare when they leave such a critical office. Hon. Temporary Speaker, tell me why such an individual will not be tempted to get into matters that would bring integrity questions. They know that they are sitting in a powerful office, but they shall retire with no perks. They do not enjoy any welfare terms after they retire from office. I am sure that if M/s PKF Kenya LLP applies itself to the audit of the welfare and terms of the people holding this office, it shall find out that this country is doing a great disservice by not offering the right welfare and the right terms for holders of such an important office when they retire. If this audit firm applies itself accordingly, it shall also find out that within its ranks and files, there are auditors who did bad manners; some who bullied the people who were being audited, and some of them were bullied for no reason other than rent-seeking. I shall not want to go beyond that, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Finally, if M/s PKF Kenya LLP applies itself well on the job, it shall find out that there is work to be done in the county governments. The county governments in this country are such a shame when it comes to public procurement processes. I see my time is running out, allow me to add this final point. Just as the Office of the Auditor-General recognises that it requires external experts to undertake its job, the Government of Kenya also needs to wake up to the reality that it needs experts to come and support it in areas where it has weaknesses. One of the biggest areas of weaknesses in this Government is the area of communication. The Government of Kenya ought to do what the Office of the Auditor-General is doing by bringing in external professionals to assist them in doing the job. The Government of Kenya needs to professionalise its communication, just as we are seeing the Auditor-General relying on professionals to undertake their job. Hon. Temporary Speaker, communication in Government requires such professionalisation so that…"
},
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"id": 1464459,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464459/?format=api",
"text_counter": 340,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
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"content": " The next to speak on this is Hon. Jessica Mbalu."
},
{
"id": 1464460,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464460/?format=api",
"text_counter": 341,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kibwezi East, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Jessica Mbalu",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. I rise to support the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Procurement of External Audit Services for the Office of the Auditor-General for the Financial Years 2022/2023, 2023/2024 and 2024/2025, moved very well by the Vice Chairperson, Public Accounts Committee, and seconded by the Hon. Member from the Lake region, Hon. Oundo. Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to say that the Public Accounts Committee was being Chaired by the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning, the Hon. Mbadi, but today I must say that the Report has been moved by the Hon. Tindi Mwale MP, the Vice-Chairperson. I quote for the purpose of our Standing Orders, “ badala ya Musani Hussein”. Hon. Tindi Mwale, you are now the Acting Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee. Hon. Temporary Speaker, during the last Parliament, I was the Vice-Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee, and I know what auditing is. I do understand how important the Office of the External Auditor to the Auditor-General is. Having listened to the Committee Report, all the processes have been followed in terms of procurement of M/s PKF Kenya LLP, as the firm that won the tendering process. Looking at the Report, the right procurement process was followed. The Public Accounts Committee, with its membership, has been convinced that M/s PKF Kenya LLP is the right firm to audit the Auditor-General. The advertisement was done in terms of the successful firm. I am very grateful that the Committee conducted independent audits of the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464461,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464461/?format=api",
"text_counter": 342,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kibwezi East, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Jessica Mbalu",
"speaker": null,
"content": "organisation's activities and all its operations in line with the international standards on auditing and international financial reporting standards. These are guidelines by the Public Sector Accounting Standards Board (PSASB). The Committee was convinced that the firm they are seeking approval for from this House is in good standing in terms of its books. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Committee also expressed itself through opinion on the financial statements that have been prepared. In all material aspects, it is in accordance with the applicable international financial reporting standards and the frameworks. They also looked at whether the organisation had maintained proper books of accounts and whether their company financial statements have given a true and fair view of the financial position of the Office of the Auditor-General. These findings and examination by the Committee shows how Public Accounts Committee went into details, even looking at the tenders in terms of the technical and the financial aspects. Hon. Temporary Speaker, as a finance expert I am convinced that all these areas that the Public Accounts Committee looked at make this firm the right one to audit the Auditor- General. In future, I encourage that more firms bid in such advertisements so that we can have competitive bidding. We only got two bidders and the committee selected one of the two."
}
]
}