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{
"id": 1464482,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464482/?format=api",
"text_counter": 363,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Wundanyi, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Danson Mwashako",
"speaker": null,
"content": "As I finish, there is something called materiality in accounting. The auditors sent to audit NG-CDF come to constituency offices and harass everybody there. They pursue… Nowadays they do not do sampling, they visit all projects which is a good thing. I really support that. When they come to the constituency they visit all projects. Initially they used to do sampling, but now when they go out there to look at what happened in the previous years that they are auditing, they forget something very crucial called materiality in the county. Materiality in auditing means a situation where an auditor only looks at something that will cause your report not to meet the threshold. They come to the constituencies and go to a classroom and start saying, “this paint is not good paint” and yet the classroom was done two years ago. How could you know that a paint that was done two years ago was not good? I want to speak to the Auditor-General and say that they also need to be serious when they come to audit NG-CDF. They should also put a disclaimer in their reports that, Members of Parliament are not involved in the running and managing of day-to-day and any financial activities in NG- CDF. This is because, what has been happening is that a report is leaked to the public, someone picks it maliciously and publicly..."
},
{
"id": 1464483,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464483/?format=api",
"text_counter": 364,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": " Give him one minute. Let us hear him on that. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464484,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464484/?format=api",
"text_counter": 365,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Wundanyi, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Danson Mwashako",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I was saying that when these reports are done by the auditors who come to constituencies, sometimes before they get to Parliament, they are leaked to the public. Then our opponents maliciously pick out these items, because many of them did not follow the materiality concept I talked about here. They start branding Members of Parliament as corrupt, to have misappropriated the NG-CDF money and bursaries and so on. This is the case and yet we know Members of Parliament do not have a role in managing the resources of NG-CDF. Therefore, I support this Report but with a rider that in future, if the bidders are not more than five, then this Report should not get its time in this House. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1464485,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464485/?format=api",
"text_counter": 366,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
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"content": " Very well. Before Dr Mutunga speaks on it, it is not necessary. The tone of Parliament more often than not becomes quite a lamenting one, yet you really have the powers when the question will be put, if you really believe that the threshold is not met, not to pass the Report or to reject the Report. And that is the business of Parliament. Hon. Dr Mutunga."
},
{
"id": 1464486,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464486/?format=api",
"text_counter": 367,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tigania West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) John K. Mutunga",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to also contribute to the adoption of the Committee Report. We are speaking about an audit firm to be approved to audit the Office of the Auditor- General for several years. This is a very sensitive office. We rely upon the Office of the Auditor-General to know whether Government resources are properly utilised. We know that this House receives a number of reports from all over, having been the work of the Auditor- General. The Member for Wundanyi who has just spoken, Hon. Mwashako, has clearly said that the Budget and Appropriations Committee apportioned up to and including Ksh8 billion or more to this office. This is not little money and, therefore, we expect this office to be doing a very good job. But then we are looking at somebody to actually audit the Auditor-General, or rather, look at the books of the Auditor-General of this Republic. The one who is the key eye of the scrutiny of the books of accounts of different institutions, ministries, departments and agencies, for and on behalf of the Republic. According to the Report, I have not been convinced about the procurement process. There are a few questions that we need to ask ourselves. First of all, we have been presented with one name. I do not know whether that is the constitutional or legal provision, but we should probably have been given three or so names to pick one. Because we are Kenyans and we know these firms, we probably could even have background checks and propose a name that probably could be adopted to audit such an important office. We are talking about competitiveness. Was the procurement process competitive and transparent? Did they adhere to the freedom of choice of this firm? Why do we have one name present at this instance for us to just either choose or drop? If the process was competitive, transparent, and if there was no form of influence, then did it really meet the threshold? Was it above board? PKF Kenya is being proposed to audit the books of accounts of the Auditor-General for the Financial Years 2022/2023, 2023/2024, and 2024/2025; three years. They are also the ones who will audit the mortgage, car loan scheme and the entire business of the Office of the Auditor-General. We know the importance of having a clean audit report. A clean audit report basically stipulates that money has been properly utilised and there is value for money. We have received many reports in this House by the current Auditor-General who is looking for a firm to audit their books. I want to particularly look at the Auditor-General’s report in relation to county governments, and the Auditor-General’s report in relation to NG-CDF and maybe a few other cases. If I may focus specifically on the NG-CDF Report, I am privy to my own constituency’s audited accounts, and I want to be clear that since I became a Member of Parliament, my The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464487,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464487/?format=api",
"text_counter": 368,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tigania West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) John K. Mutunga",
"speaker": null,
"content": "oversight role has been thorough to the extent that we do not have a qualified account for those years I have been in charge of Tigania West. I say this without any fear of contradiction. I link this with a situation where we have all the county accounts being qualified. We know what a qualified account means. It means the statement that the Auditor-General writes as the summary statement of the account, says that “this account is okay, apart from the fact that some things were not done correctly.” This, therefore, means that the county accounts are not very clean. I am trying to bring to the notice of this House the statement made especially at the Senate. Whenever Senators get a chance to speak about anything, they speak badly about the NG-CDF, why it should be done away with and how it has not assisted this country. I want to pick out a few Senators without mentioning names and especially, those who have been in this House. They have been Members of Parliament. They have had to oversee the NG-CDF and probably, have done a lot of good work in their backyards. However, without being personal but purely objective, if you hear the statements they make, they are so convinced that NG-CDF is misused by Members of Parliament yet there is a National Government Constituencies Development Fund Act, 2015 which governs how NG-CDF is supposed to be utilised and the process is very clear. When they were Members of Parliament, did they misuse NG-CDF? Is that what they are telling Kenyans? Some of them appear in the morning, midday and evening on television shows, so emphatic on how NG-CDF has been misused. Sometimes you wonder because this Member has been a Member of Parliament for up to four terms overseeing NG-CDF yet he claims that it has been misused. This is a declaration to Kenyans that he or she has been misusing this money. Let me narrow down to the role of the Senate in as far as oversight of the resources is concerned. Senate oversees the county resources and it is important to note that county resources are qualified based on their audited accounts. That being the case, this morning, we took some time to discuss the report on additional allocations to the counties. The report was about giving counties more money, which is an additional allocation to the legally allowed share that we give them. Most of the action development in all counties are from these allocations. Most of them are also donor funded. From the agricultural background, we have negotiated projects between the donor and the Kenyan Government. These negotiations go as far as saying who is going to implement what. When it comes to implementation, donors believe and understand the fact that devolution has to work and, therefore, devolved resources must go to the county, even if they are national Government resources. That is why we are discussing them at this point in time and calling them additional resources. They take these resources directly to the counties. It is possible that the Senators might not know how much of these resources go to the counties directly as an arrangement between the donors and the county governments. It is also possible that the Members of the County Assemblies may not be aware of some of these issues. So, there is a likely lacuna that there are some resources that are handled by the governors and the oversight institutions are not aware. If they are not aware of them, are they thorough in their job? There is also a high level of wastage and corruption among counties, which has been cited in many cases. As this House considers the issue of corruption this morning, we need to rethink accountability. And unless we do so, our resources will be misused. The Senate has failed Kenya as a nation for holding governors accountable. Can Senators tell us that they have been overseeing these Governors properly? Why do we have qualified accounts every time? Why do we have resources misused? Why do we hear of cases of money being embezzled from the counties yet they are overseeing? Even where the county assemblies have done their The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1464488,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464488/?format=api",
"text_counter": 369,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tigania West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) John K. Mutunga",
"speaker": null,
"content": "constitutional mandate of holding governors to account, we have seen Senators sneak these governors through."
},
{
"id": 1464489,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464489/?format=api",
"text_counter": 370,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": " I propose that you be added two minutes."
},
{
"id": 1464490,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464490/?format=api",
"text_counter": 371,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tigania West, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) John K. Mutunga",
"speaker": null,
"content": " When the governors are apprehended and Senators go ahead to clear those who have been accused of corruption, is that the kind of oversight we are talking about? When we have processes going through the Senate, sometimes we doubt whether the decisions made by the Senate are decisions that are not influenced in one way or another. We, therefore, ask our friends in the Senate to do their work well. Stop blaming the National Assembly for nothing. Just play your oversight role very well. The Senate in this case, and I say this without any fear of contradiction, is the weakest link in promoting transparency and accountability in this country. We have seen resources being misused in this country and they stare and watch as resources are being misused over and over again. It has happened many times and it is now time that they took their roles seriously. They should look at how to make sure that accountability exists at the counties. The role of Senators is not just to look for money for counties. Their role is to oversee the counties and make sure that they do the right thing. There is lack of seriousness in this Report that has been presented here. The lack of seriousness is not on the part of the Committee but on the part of the Auditor-General. We need the Auditor-General to be a little bit more serious. Next time, give us three names and let us pick from those names. We know these companies. We have interacted with them and know what each can do. We need to pick from a list. With those very few remarks, I support the adoption, but we need a better approach next time."
},
{
"id": 1464491,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464491/?format=api",
"text_counter": 372,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": " What is your point of order, Hon. Tindi?"
}
]
}