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{
"id": 1493642,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The issue of public participation is a very important issue in this country. We laud the Supreme Court for the interpretation and the guidance it has given to the House and to Kenyans as regards what exactly is public participation, and to what extent should this House consider views that are collected from the public during public participation. Indeed, it is true that many people think that when we go for public participation, we should be collecting views and votes from the public so that if the public votes against whatever it is we are proposing, then it fails. Nothing is far from the truth because the fact remains public participation is purely to ensure that our public is well-informed as regards the legislative proposals we have here or whatever action Parliament is taking so that the public does not plead ignorance at any time. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1493643,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493643/?format=api",
"text_counter": 80,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I have two very important things to say. The Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs has two drafts of public participation Acts which we are looking at. In fact, we had scheduled December to be our deadline so that we are able to produce something for the House to look at, but we are happy to hear the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party say that they are also working on an Act of Parliament which will be coming to us in due course and which we will be debating when the right time comes. Part of public participation is the question which recently, on Monday, the newly appointed Deputy President of the Republic of Kenya Prof. Kithure Kindiki posed to the Judiciary. What is the difference between public interest and national interest, and which of the two is higher than the other? As far as public interest is concerned, and that goes with public participation, there may be an element of mobilisation towards rejecting a popular idea of the Government. Is that what you should be calling public participation and public interest? Or we should be looking at the bigger good of the country. What is beneficial to the country? We should be carrying that as actually what entails public interest. All this is going to come before the House. We have to prepare ourselves so that we can enact one of the best laws in the country. It should be guided by the Judiciary so that we produce an Act of Parliament on Public Participation which is acceptable across the board. Thank you very much."
},
{
"id": 1493644,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493644/?format=api",
"text_counter": 81,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": " Hon. Kimani Kuria, you want to speak to this? I hope you are not laying."
},
{
"id": 1493645,
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"text_counter": 82,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Kimani Kuria spoke off the record)"
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{
"id": 1493646,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493646/?format=api",
"text_counter": 83,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": "Okay."
},
{
"id": 1493647,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493647/?format=api",
"text_counter": 84,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to join my colleagues in celebrating the Solomonic wisdom of the ruling by the Supreme Court of the Republic of Kenya. The reason why the Finance Bills for the last two years have become a subject of discussion in the whole country is because the Departmental Committee of Finance and National Planning made a deliberate decision that we would engage members of the public to seek their views and to have their voices heard on the matters that are going to affect their lives and matters that are going to affect our economy. I, however, noticed that during the process, perhaps, what we should have started with was civic education on what a law-making process is and how it is done. We even saw very educated people display their ignorance on the process of law-making. I dare say that we had one of the most progressive reports that the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning tabled in this House and was approved at the Third Reading. The issues that members of the public were raising had sufficiently been addressed in our Report. We are finding now that those matters that should have been passed then, for example, reducing the weight of taxes on payslips by making those statutory deductions like Social Health Authority (SHA) and Housing Levy become tax allowable for PAYE, were matters that we had considered. We have thousands, if not millions, of Kenyans that were locked out of the tax amnesty. It is a matter that we had considered and extended the tax amnesty to next year. We said that you pay your principal tax or you have a commitment to your principal tax and you have your interests and penalties all forgiven. Those matters were left and we are hoping that, as we consider the several other legislative proposals that are coming to this House, both the House and the members of the Executive should consider civic education. I am happy because civil societies, activists, and even upcoming politicians have now taken upon themselves to understand how laws are made in this country. Even as we had the previous discussion about the impeachment of the Deputy President, there were questions about comparing how the process of assumption of Office of a Deputy The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1493648,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493648/?format=api",
"text_counter": 85,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": "President was compared to that of the President of Botswana. The difference is we have our 2010 Constitution. We have several laws in this country that spearhead such a programme and until the time when we change our Constitution or we change those particular statutes and laws, then that will be the procedure. Therefore, I am urging Kenyans that during our deliberation on the various legislative proposals and Bills that are coming to this House, let us follow our Constitution and laws. Let us take time to understand the law-making process because, unfortunately, we have no shortcut. We must adhere to our 2010 Constitution as passed by the majority of the people in this country. I beg to submit."
},
{
"id": 1493649,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493649/?format=api",
"text_counter": 86,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": " I will only give two more Members the opportunity to comment and then we can go back to the main business. The Hon. Deputy Leader of the Majority Party followed by Hon. Beatrice Elachi."
},
{
"id": 1493650,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493650/?format=api",
"text_counter": 87,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to weigh in on what Hon. Junet has said about the ruling of the Supreme Court. It asserted the doctrine of separation of powers. It has simply demonstrated that Parliament has its work cut out for it and it should be allowed to do it. Equally, the Judiciary also has its work cut out for it and it should be allowed to do it. This is a landmark ruling as delivered by the Supreme Court. That ruling will allow this country and Government programmes to move forward. The Article on public participation became a waterloo in the Constitution itself. The implementation of laws could not move forward because it was always taken back by the issue of public participation. The High Court has continuously abused Article 165(3)((d)(i) of the Constitution which states that the High Court has jurisdiction on the interpretation of laws, including whether a law is inconsistent with the Constitution. That Article has been abused by the High Court such that they have become a supervisor of the Legislature, which is not the role of the courts in this country. The courts cannot be supervisors. They have been given the mandate under Article 165 of the Constitution to check and interpret the extent to which a law is inconsistent with the Constitution. The principle of separation of powers must be respected. Parliament must be given an opportunity to work. Parliament cannot be supervised by the High Court. However, the High Court has a role to ensure that what we pass here is consistent with the Constitution. They picked the issue of public participation and wanted every law to fall on its sword. I thank the ladies and gentlemen of the Supreme Court for asserting that Parliament should be given an opportunity to work. We also need to ensure that the courts conduct public participation on each ruling that they make to ensure that it is cross-cutting. I want to thank Hon. Junet for bringing up this matter. I also thank the courts and the Chief Justice for ensuring that public participation is not used to abuse Parliament’s authority. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
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"id": 1493651,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1493651/?format=api",
"text_counter": 88,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": " Hon. Members who are leaving, I request for your patience because we need your numbers in Order No.8. Remember, we altered the order of business to await some good numbers. So, I request that we allow Hon. Beatrice Elachi to say something on this, and then we go back to the Orders which require your numbers. I ask for your patience to stay within the Chamber."
}
]
}