HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, POST, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"count": 1608389,
"next": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=147740",
"previous": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=147738",
"results": [
{
"id": 1495582,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495582/?format=api",
"text_counter": 466,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
},
"content": " I think he meant there is no categorical, legal or constitutional obligation for Members of Parliament to accommodate every aspect of public participation. Public participation is to enrich and inform Members. I presume that he meant so. In any case, we do not have a law on public participation. It is time we had a law. Proceed."
},
{
"id": 1495583,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495583/?format=api",
"text_counter": 467,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Precisely, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1495584,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495584/?format=api",
"text_counter": 468,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1495585,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495585/?format=api",
"text_counter": 469,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I did not go to law school, but I attended enough units in law. I can read and interpret any judgment. That is why we, in the Committee, insisted that we must account for whatever comment we were given, be it verbal or a written memorandum. We state when we are accommodating any comment. If we are rejecting a comment or representation, we clearly say that we are rejecting for X, Y, Z reasons. It was for abundance of caution because the decision by the Court of Appeal in respect to the Finance Bill of 2023 was prevailing. For my good friend, I am referring to the Supreme Court ruling on the Finance Bill of 2023.There are four things that came out very clear and the members of the public were categorical and applied their minds to it. The first was registration. Who registers a cooperative society? That became a very robustly debated and conversed issue. The second was governance issues. How many terms can a director hold? How many years can one remain a director? Can a director remain for life just because they have muscles? When we were in Kericho, during public participation, all the directors were fairly aged senior citizens. When we asked one of the young ladies, she said in their society, traditions and culture cannot allow her to contest against an elder. So, the elders will have to remain directors forever. The question was, what can we do to remedy this so that we can bring in new blood in the cooperative movement? It became a contentious issue. I do not want to speak on what the Committee has proposed because that is the work of the Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson. The third issue was on remittance where an employer deducts your money and does not remit or delays to remit. What remedy or recourse does a co-operator have in respect of this matter? What if you expected your shares or deposits to have increased? You go to apply for a loan expecting your employer has been remitting for the last one year. You expect Ksh60,000 or Ksh100,000 deposits, only to be told the last time any deposit or remittance was received was about three years ago. Therefore, your shares and deposit can only warrant you Ksh20,000. This is the case and yet, you have an emergency that requires Ksh50,000. That became a very contentious issue. The fourth issue was supervision. Who supervises? Who takes remedial action whenever there is a problem? Of course, after all that public participation, there was a residual matter that remained. As we write thesis, proposals and projects in areas of further studies, we need to professionalise this sector. As at the moment, we have no professional body. So, how do we professionalise the sector? That is why we said we deal with what we have now. As we move forward, we will deal with the rest. I support and beseech my colleagues to also support this Bill. Let us converse with the Committee. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1495586,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495586/?format=api",
"text_counter": 470,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
},
"content": " The lady Member for Suba North."
},
{
"id": 1495587,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495587/?format=api",
"text_counter": 471,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. I want to thank the Committee for coming up with a very comprehensive Bill. Cooperatives are very helpful and they provide a necessary economic boost, especially for Micro, Small, and Medium-sized Enterprises (MSMEs). These are areas that if people do not pull together, they will not realise much. It borrows largely from the Harambee spirit. For instance, in the fishing industry, it has been helpful. A lot of the fisherfolk are fairly poor or indigent and without pulling together in cooperatives, they may not realise much. Even as we speak, a lot of the fisherfolk do not even own the boats they use. By enhancing cooperatives, they will be able to access the tools of their trade. I want to agree with the Members who have said that this sector is misused. Many members who have saved within the co-operatives have had their resources misused in the past and hence there is need for enhanced governance within this sector. Whenever I speak to any Bill, I focus on issues of governance and mainstreaming of other cross-cutting issues and it is within that framework that I have a little bit of concern and"
},
{
"id": 1495588,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495588/?format=api",
"text_counter": 472,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1495589,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495589/?format=api",
"text_counter": 473,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I would want to put this to the Committee. I may not necessarily bring amendments, but I would want the Chairperson of the Committee, who has gracefully stayed this far, just to look at it. Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah spoke about Article 186 and Schedule 4 of the Constitution that provides the respective functions and powers of the national Government and county governments. What I notice in the architecture of this Bill is that it does not stay true to that because you give a lot of powers to the national Government even in terms of establishment and make the counties subservient to the national Government. It does not take into account what the framers of the Constitution intended when they were coming up with this Constitution. We are still having a very centralised approach when we are coming up with this. Maybe that is something you want to look at. Another issue of concern is that of the officers cited here such as the county directors. They have no clear qualifications and when we have officers who have no clear qualifications, it becomes very easy to manipulate and those are the people who are dealing with a lot of money and investment. If you have people who do not have clear qualifications, then it means people will use people they can easily manipulate."
},
{
"id": 1495590,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495590/?format=api",
"text_counter": 474,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The other issue of concern for me is the Inter-Governmental Co-operatives Relations Technical Forum, and you can see that in that forum, we are not very clear about issues of gender inclusion, ethnic inclusion, inclusions of youth as provided in the Constitution or persons with disability. It means we can easily violate the Constitution. Again, I would want us to re-look at Clause 20. We are talking about the transport sector and other sectors, whether it would also be necessary to include fisheries under primary cooperatives. Perhaps in your response, you can explain why you thought that fisheries does not qualify to be under that. Hon. Temporary Speaker, under Clause 25, I have a problem with it especially Clause 25(f)(g) that provides that, “they shall provide a shared pool of legal services or accounting and auditing services to its affiliates”. Even though it is made subject to the Accounting Act and the Advocates Act, I am just wondering whether this does not then provide or create monopoly and can make it a subject to litigation for discriminatory practices. Under Clause 124, again on the issues of the establishment of a tribunal, in terms of the architecture, I wish this was given totally to the Judiciary or you find a framework through which the devolved units then set up that mechanism. But again, it still takes that centralised approach. The issue of inclusion of age, disability, ethnic and gender is a problem, but I am happy that you have put a cap where people can serve for up to three years, which is a good governance practice. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I think one of the things that I also like is Article 146 where the Deputy Registrar shall prepare and maintain a list of persons qualified to serve as the Co- operative Tribunal Annexed Mediators. I was earlier meeting women mediators and I think it is a very good area, but again even in this one, provide the issue of gender inclusion because women mediators or women in Alternative Dispute Resolution were saying that sometimes they are elbowed by the men in that sector. I had actually promised that I would raise it in Parliament. So,I am glad you brought it here. Finally, as my time is almost up, I want to note Clause 25 again, which provides that they shall lobby the national Government and county governments on co-operative issues. Perhaps if you could consider changing the word ‘lobby’. Lobbying is what I did when I worked in the civil society but if you are providing a statutory body, they shall advise the Government. They shall not lobby. If they want to lobby, please include the Cradle here and other human rights organisations If you are a statutory body, you advise the Government, and you do not lobby. Finally, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Hon. (Dr) Oundo spoke about the issue of public participation and I know it is something that we will grapple with when we are dealing with"
},
{
"id": 1495591,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1495591/?format=api",
"text_counter": 475,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}
]
}