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"id": 1496572,
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"text_counter": 534,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mwala, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Vincent Musau",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the schedule to the Bill be amended deleting the amendment proposed to section 169(2). It is a bit of contentious here. On this one, the proposal was that if you, for instance, hire a vehicle or lend out your vehicle and that vehicle is used to carry Kenya Power stolen power cables et cetera then you forfeit that vehicle. The Committee felt that we are stretching it too far because you can easily hire a vehicle without knowing the intention or purpose for which this vehicle is going to be used. If you rent out your vehicle, this vehicle if it ends up being used for other purposes, it will be a little unfair that you forfeit the vehicle by virtue of hiring it out to the person who ends up using it for mischief."
},
{
"id": 1496573,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496573/?format=api",
"text_counter": 535,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": " Very well, Hon. Chairperson."
},
{
"id": 1496574,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496574/?format=api",
"text_counter": 536,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question of the amendment proposed)"
},
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"id": 1496575,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496575/?format=api",
"text_counter": 537,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Several Hon. Members raised their hands)"
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{
"id": 1496576,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496576/?format=api",
"text_counter": 538,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
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"content": "Hon. Bowen, you will take the first bite."
},
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"id": 1496577,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496577/?format=api",
"text_counter": 539,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Marakwet East, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kangogo Bowen",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Chairman, I do not know why the Committee has proposed the deletion of this amendment because if you find a vehicle carrying stolen materials that belong to Kenya Power, it means that those people have organised themselves, including even getting cars from the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. The entire Ministry is the scene of a crime. The Committee should not propose the deletion of that amendment as it will serve as a deterrent because many transformers in the rural areas have been stolen and ferried, not through bags, but through vehicles. Those vehicles are also part of the conspiracy. I oppose the deletion of that amendment."
},
{
"id": 1496578,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496578/?format=api",
"text_counter": 540,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Chairman",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
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"content": " Hon. Millie."
},
{
"id": 1496579,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496579/?format=api",
"text_counter": 541,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Even though I agree with Hon. Bowen that our communities are suffering because of people stealing all our transformers, it would be punitive to punish the person who hired out their vehicle. When you hire out your vehicle, the client does not tell you that they will use it to steal. What if you give out your vehicle in good faith and then somebody uses it to steal? Even in criminal law, we must assess whether someone has a guilty mind, which is called the"
},
{
"id": 1496580,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496580/?format=api",
"text_counter": 542,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "mens rea."
},
{
"id": 1496581,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496581/?format=api",
"text_counter": 543,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "It would be wrong to punish a person who does not have a guilty mind. I agree with the Chairman on that proposed amendment. Let us enforce strict punishment, but we should not punish people who have not deliberately gone out of their way to steal."
}
]
}