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{
"id": 1496942,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496942/?format=api",
"text_counter": 164,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This way, it will become another business enterprise where people will register themselves as public collection entities for purposes of fundraising. Of course, out of that fundraising, they make money. I propose that this particular provision under Clause 12(3) be deleted so that the only people who can, at any given time, be allowed to apply for and get permits to regulate a process of fundraising are those who are in need and not an entity whose business will purely be a public collection entity. If this is deleted, the preceding provisions will become superfluous. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause 13 provides that a state officer or an appointed public officer shall not participate in a fundraising appeal or conduct a public fundraising appeal during his or her term as a state officer. In this case, I propose that this is amended to read that such a public or state officer should not become a chief guest or the person collecting, but otherwise be in their individual capacities. I wear several hats. I am a public or state officer when I am in office. Out of office, there are certain personal private engagements that I engage in. I propose that the law reads that you cannot be a chief guest, but can participate in contributing to that particular fundraising that has already been authorised. Then, again, the requirement that you cannot do so within a period of three years preceding a general election tells us that all of us who have been engaged in these support programmes have already committed offenses. I know this will not act retrospectively, but it will affect us for a very long period of time. I propose as one Member here has already done so, that we limit it to six months rather than three years before a general election. The provision on the penalty of Kshs5 million is a bit punitive. The cause with which an individual is contributing to a fundraising is to support genuinely and as a matter of fact, it has already been approved by the issuance of that license. It cannot, therefore, be fair that the same license that permitted contributions to that fundraising can lead to an individual being penalized Kshs5 million or a fine not exceeding that amount. I propose that it be reduced to an amount which is not punitive, not Kshs5 million and above. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at the same time, subclause 4 says this will become or will constitute an election offense. If it is an election offence, it attracts another separate penalty. One could be barred or one could be punished by an imposition of a fine because they are candidates. This means one is going to be subjected to double jeopardy. Clause 14(2) says that the Cabinet Secretary upon receiving an application has got 14 days to either make a decision to issue or not. Fourteen days cannot fly, especially where we require fundraisings to be conducted for purposes of emergencies. Although I am aware that the provisions of Clause 15 says that there are exceptions to this 14-day period, I bet, as a matter of fact, that no such exceptions will be able to facilitate quick approval of requests for fundraising. Therefore, this should be an instant application and not to the Cabinet Secretary as I have proposed that requirement to take charge, be deleted and have it within the local lowest level of national Government administration; the local area assistant chief. That application should be instant, and it should not require 14 days for approval. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496943,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496943/?format=api",
"text_counter": 165,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The next provision is asking about the list of the things that you are supposed to submit in the application. You cannot, for purposes of an emergency, be required to list why you are supposed to conduct a fundraiser yet it is obviously for seeking support of the public. Clause 15 provides that the Cabinet Secretary is now given exemption. I propose that the provision of 14 days be deleted, and also the requirement that you will get it on exceptional circumstances will not apply. We are looking at 14 days of the application and Clause 19 says that the Cabinet Secretary can, under the provisions of this Act, be subject to another additional 10 days. We are looking at almost 24 days within which one can get a permit to conduct a fundraising, which is quite unreasonable in the circumstances. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause 27 proposes keeping of the register of permitted fundraising appeals at the national and county level. This is not going to be something implementable. We cannot be in a position to keep the register of all fundraisings in the country. Clause 27 says the Cabinet Secretary or the CECM shall keep and maintain a register of- (a) All persons to whom permits have been issued to conduct fundraising appeal in the county (b) all persons whose permit has been cancelled and; (c) such other particulars as may from time to time be considered necessary. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a superfluous provision. We should not have this in law. I propose that the entire Clause is deleted. Clause 36 seeks to get a declaration on the source of contribution. The law here says that a person who makes a contribution to a fundraising appeal shall specify the source of the contribution. It does not tell us who are we going to make this declaration to. It is also not going to be possible because in any fundraising, we do not list down the names of the people who come to support. Everybody just brings their contribution. It is not going to be possible to implement this. This is an unnecessary provision, which I propose it be deleted. There is a requirement that if I am receiving donations on behalf of a minor, I am required to file it, or rather to declare it under the Income Tax. The purpose of a fundraiser is to serve a good cause. It is not meant for personal gain. It is meant to support the particular cause whose permit was granted. Such a requirement in law will make it extremely impossible to even engage in supporting and receiving on behalf of those minors, or those who are unable to fundraise but need support from well-wishers. As much as I support this Bill, there is a lot that needs to be done to amend it so that it aligns with the reality on the ground with regards to regulation. However, the bottom line is, it is important for purposes of regulating fundraising to avoid misuse, corruption and also blackmail. Almost all the Members here on a daily basis are invited to various WhatsApp groups for purposes of fundraising and we need to regulate that. I support and I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1496944,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496944/?format=api",
"text_counter": 166,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Tabitha Mutinda proceed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496945,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496945/?format=api",
"text_counter": 167,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As I rise to give my submissions on this Bill, I have asked myself so many questions in terms of what this Bill is really curing. What are we trying to achieve, looking at both sides of the coin, as far as the issues of fundraising or Harambees, as we locally call them, are concerned? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me, and my colleagues who have spoken earlier before me, that the major reasons for us conducting fundraising are mostly for purposes of helping. In most cases, fundraising is voluntary. It is a case of willing buyer and seller. However, what does it really focus on? It focuses mostly on education, medical, funerals and such like issues. It also applies to where we have publicly built public infrastructures. These range from mostly the schools and narrowing it down to our churches. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as far as building of churches is concerned, even the Bible says that the church shall be built by the people, and as Christians, we have done that well. However, I am happy that this Bill does not touch so much on the issue of the church. It does not affect the issues of tithe or any contributions as far as churches are concerned. The Bible is clear that it is us to build the churches and mosques. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to refer to the Bible. Proverbs 19:17 says- “Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord and he will repay him for his deed.” Further, Proverbs 22:9 says- “The generous will themselves be blessed for they will share their food with the poor. Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth or gives to the rich will only come to poverty.” Matters about giving generously are in the Bible. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Bill has touched on an additional responsibility to the Cabinet Secretary. Yesterday, we had two Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) who were supposed to appear before this House to answer to a number of questions that have been awaiting them to respond. Unfortunately, they were not able to appear before this House. Since last year when this House approved, in our Standing Orders that CSs should appear, the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning appeared for the first time. So, you can imagine subjecting the CS to more responsibilities as far as the issue of harambee is concerned. If I do random statistics, you would agree with me, although I do not have the exact number, we might be having not less than even 2,000 harambees, as we speak, going on in this country because of the different issues that exist. If it is lower than that, it could be 1,500. Where is the time that the CS will have to vet all this with the necessary requirements that have been stated in this Bill to ensure timely response within the 14 days that have been stipulated? Will it be enough, putting in mind just in a day how many applications they can be? Why are we still giving more responsibility to the Ministry instead of focusing on the CS giving us the audit reports in regards to the issues of public debt, how much and how we intend to collect more revenue and timely disbursements of the funds to the counties as required? That is where the focus should be. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496946,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496946/?format=api",
"text_counter": 168,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Bringing in the issue of fundraising and adding more responsibilities to the Cabinet Secretary is uncalled for. Actually, since we have Nyumba Kumi, our chiefs at the mashinani lower level, will be the best people to engage as they normally give permits for gatherings to take place. Perhaps, in one way or the other, they would be in a better place because they are much more confined within the environments of where this Harambee is supposed to take place. They are in a better place to understand what the Harambee is for. As I have said earlier, most of these harambees are for medical, education, funeral expenses, or building a community infrastructure that will help the people. You can imagine someone coming all the way from Kitui County to Nairobi to submit application for permit, for Christ's sake. In one of the committees that I sit in; the Senate Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds (CPIC), where we do audit, we are struggling with late submissions of documents that are should be able to help in the conclusions on audit. When you ask the Members of the County through the Executive, they keep on telling us to give them more time or this was the issue or it has been submitted but late submission. Look at what we still want to make them do. At the end of the day, what are we trying to solve? What is that one or two things that we are trying to cure today as far as these fundraisings are concerned, is it the issue of money laundering? Is that what you want to get to the bottom of? If so, how do you deal with that? We have Government agencies. The EACC and other Government agencies should look at these matters, if that is what they are trying to cure. What are we really trying to cure? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for us to cure medical issues, we should give more time to Social Health Authority (SHA), so that the benefits that SHA is and was supposed to provide to the people are realized. One of them, which the President pronounced himself on, was to reduce the issues of harambee because the medical scheme should be able to cut across most of these chronical diseases that make our people end up incurring very high treatment costs. The solution for medical issues cum harambees is and should be in SHA. The discussion should be the speed up of ensuring people register and the system is rolled out maximally, as we have seen in counties whereby this is taking place, so that when we achieve 100 per cent registration and roll-up of SHA, we will be able to have the benefits that SHA has introduced, especially in financial issues. As far as harambees are concerned, I have participated in contributions. Last weekend, I did a contribution to a foundation of one gentleman, Meshack Mwenge, in Machakos County, with his good intentions of helping the needy. Focusing on the element of education factor and why people do harambees for education, the solution should be on free education in the country. Who will come and ask you to support their child to pursue a particular level of education, if from the lower level of education, the primary level to the highest, which is the university level, there is free education? We will not need to have the discussion of harambees for education matters. On the medical issue, SHA should be able to take care. So, what are we left with? Looking at the issue of the church, it is not dealt with in this Bill. Therefore, that is taken care of. Mostly these contributions are because of funerals, when we lose our loved ones. Where I come from, the eastern region, when you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496947,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496947/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "lose your loved one, the culture, and as most cultures would replicate, we say you do not bury your own person. Therefore, the community, friends and neighbours help you mourn and give a decent send-off to your loved one. It is a culture that has been there and people normally come together, condole, share and help you in ensuring that you give a decent send-off to your loved one. In most scenarios, it is voluntary, but comes from an existing culture. Looking at the timelines that have been set here, one of the first timelines by the Cabinet Secretary was 14 days. Further to that, Clause 16(1) states that – “the committee member shall, within ten days upon receipt of an application under section 16 — (a) examine the documents submitted to it;” Now, it moves from one body which has 14 days and it goes to another Committee for ten days. You have lost a loved one and those are 24 days, which is an equivalent of three weeks and three days. In most scenarios, for us, as Christians, it will take us like two weeks to bury someone unlike the Muslims who bury immediately, almost the same day. If there is support that is needed and all these processes have to take place, then when do we give a descent send-off to our loved ones? It does not make sense. I recommend to the Senate Majority Leader to redraft this Bill and do a very simple amendment insofar as the issue of the state officers is concerned. He has talked about the state officers being able to participate but not being the chief guest and leading in a particular fundraising. In short, they are being asked to step aside. Is it a good thing or is it a bad thing? Yes, it is a good thing because the state officers will now fully concentrate on their responsibilities. Fundraising is not about how much I have been able to contribute versus what my opponent has been able to contribute. It is not a competition. You do not get an award at the end of the day because it is a voluntary process. The state officers will then just be mandated to ensure they partake their roles without involving themselves so much with other responsibilities. This Bill has also talked about the three-year period. This means that if you intend to vie for a particular position, then you should not participate in any fundraising three years before the general election. This is okay because one will now not be judged by how much they have been able to contribute in total, but in terms of how much you are able to offer or do as a leader. One will not be judged by how much they have contributed or how many sacks they have been able to carry. The focus will be on whether one has achieved their mandate and fulfilled what they promised the people during the campaigns. If the Senate Majority Leader can refocus this amendment and narrow it to target the State officers, then it would make sense. Lastly, Clause 31 talks about – “Not more than five per cent of the targeted amount to be raised shall be utilized in defraying administrative expenses related to the fundraising appeal.” What are we doing? We have Kshs10 million and five per cent of Kshs10 million is Kshs500,000. Subsequently, why should we contribute and still subject ourselves to more room for giving an opening that money can still be spent again? That is why I am wondering what we are trying to achieve. If it is to bar state officers from fundraising, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496948,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496948/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "then that is a whole different thing. Does it make sense? It makes sense, so that it reduces what has been there publicly in terms of the issues that have earlier cropped up. Are we saying that the State officers cannot help or assist? No, it is voluntary but we are limited. We should be limited from so much public image and you can in one way or the other know how to give from your own contribution. I read Proverbs and clearly stated that giving is considered a blessing even in the Bible. Hence, Clause 31 which talks about another expense of 5 per cent of the particular funds that have been contributed does not make sense. It needs to be narrowed so that it can achieve its specific goal. Mr. Temporay Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I do ask the Mover of the Bill to seek further amendments."
},
{
"id": 1496949,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496949/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen.Tabitha Mutinda. I now call upon Sen. Crystal Asige."
},
{
"id": 1496950,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496950/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you so much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As I sat there waiting to contribute to this Bill, I looked back over the year 2024 and figured out if I can calculate or remember how many fundraisers I have been requested to participate in. To be honest, I have not thought of one week so far, this year, that I have not had to fundraise for one, two or multiple types of appeals. Just this month, it was with profound sorrow that I learnt of the passing of Eunice Kuindwa, formerly of Central Bank of Kenya. She died on Sunday, 3rd November, 2024 and will be buried this weekend on 16th, in her home county of Tana River. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Mama Eunice was the devoted wife of the late Ambassador Fares Kuindwa, EGH, EBS, who served as Secretary to the Cabinet and Head of Public Service. She was a cherished mother of Sharuti, Kido, Olympia, Abaria, Kirongo and Maombi. Her five children are friends of mine. We are family friends and we lived and schooled together in Mombasa. It pains me to accept that they lost their father before, the late Ambassador Fares Kuindwa, and now their mother to cancer. It was just yesterday, when we sat here, in this House, and considered in the Committee of the Whole, the Cancer Prevention and Control (Amendment) (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.45 of 2022). Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, all of these things put together, and now, considering this Bill before us, really makes me have mixed feelings about how we are going to implement this in the fairest way possible. I really enjoyed your contribution when you did so just a few minutes back. You had a considered view of all the different clauses that you felt had to be relooked and that is what I have also been doing. I have been thinking about my friends who are kids to Mama Eunice as we are considering this Bill. If this Bill had already been enacted, for example, how would I speak to my friends and tell them that I am so sorry for your loss? How would I tell them that before we go any further, we have to make sure that we comply with the legislation that has been put in place; a legislation which requires you to acquire licenses, registrations and all sorts of things as outlined in the Bill. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, how would I start explaining that to people who are bereaved and are now orphans? Thank God they are people who are now adults, just like I am and all five of them have been blessed enough to land on their feet. What if it was a family that did not have that luxury? What if all the kids were minors, for example, and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1496951,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1496951/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "had to bury their parents or their mother this weekend? How would you ask minors to start going through all the processes outlined in this Bill? Would it be fair to tell people, who are grieving, of the timelines and processes which they have to follow and if not, they will be running contrary to the law and could face fines and even jail time? That is a difficult conversation. I also thought about cases where people have multiple fundraisers that they are doing at the same time. For example, bringing a body home from abroad where somebody has passed away. That is one type of fundraising appeal, perhaps. Then maybe, another committee within the same family is taking care of the funeral costs now in the home county of the deceased person and maybe there is a third fundraiser because they have to think about the children of that deceased person and how they are going to go to school. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, so in one family, there could be multiple fundraisers which are going on concurrently. How do we deal with that through this Bill? Like I said as well, how does this Bill deal with situations where, for example, you are looking at marginalized groups? How do you ask, for example like in Nakuru County where I support a young lady whose mother is severely schizophrenic and she is only in her early 20s? She is just a young girl taking care of her mother who cannot take care of herself. What if in her case, because she needs fundraising which is continuous to get medication for her mother and which is very expensive in light of schizophrenia and those kinds of intellectual and developmental disabilities, which are also invisible, how do we then convince or support such a situation through this Bill? There are several things that we have not really considered about in the real life situation of what is going on the ground. I do understand the objectives from the Senate Majority Leader which I read through in the preparation of my contribution and there are some which are very noble and to be honest, very progressive in my view. I believe that we are a democracy that is not quite there yet because the majority of our population are still very needy in many ways. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if this was Switzerland, Australia, the United States or Canada, perhaps, then we could think about realizing this in the best way possible. However, we are not there yet, and I am not sure that we will be helping, and we might be hurting the situation if this Bill does not go through a lot of corrections and amendments to try and cure some of the issues that have been raised by many Senators this evening. We do not want to promote this one objective which I see here - the culture of dependency. I am not sure that that is a fair statement because of the kind of society we live in. We are dependent, that is just the fact and it is a reality. The majority of us are dependent, and we do not want this kind of Bill to speak to the public and say that we are punishing the majority, whilst trying to control the minority who may abuse harambees or fundraising appeals. How can we justify that to the masses who are the majority of Kenyans? We do not want to speak or legislate from a point of privilege. That is what I am trying to say. I am concerned that is what we might be risking if we continue without heavily amending or even rethinking this entire subject matter. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}