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{
"id": 1498352,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498352/?format=api",
"text_counter": 512,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this chance to contribute. I begin with Article 109(5) of the Constitution. There must have been a reason the drafters of the Constitution were very clear and remembered to put an entire statement on how taxation should be done. When county governments are imposing taxes, they should take care of certain national issues which must be protected. This is a country. Everything that a county does must then be in the holistic good of the State. Therefore, this Bill seems very timely on that basis. It will bring harmony on the taxation trends and trajectory that will be put by the county governments. Therefore, I support it. The Bill will take care of the differences in taxes from one county to another and double taxation, which is very common. This will be very good so that we promote business. There is a tendency for leadership within the counties - which I want to become part of - to think that we must tax our goods very highly so that we sell them to the other counties. This will kill the holistic good of national development and the general development of the economy. There is also the challenge of double taxation which many Members will speak on. I would like to speak most on implementing this Bill. When I had a chance of sitting where you are, I thought as we do this, which is a very good idea, we make sure that we take care of how the counties will be dealing with those taxes at different levels. This is very important. We must not do it in a way that injures the independence of the counties and also hurts their existence. Recently, Baba spoke very expressly about counties and almost vilified Parliament. I do not wish to reply, but I sympathise with him. I also thought he remembered our history. We had those county government systems in what was called Majimbo. But around 1964 or 1965, they were just killed because there was a lot of rivalry, like we see today, between the Senate and the National Assembly. Then, the people went overboard and killed the Senate. However, the counties have been very helpful. They need to be protected. I stand here as a protector of counties, as I look at this law which is very good for the tax regime that we will set. As we do this, we must make sure that we do not kill the counties. Remember, we were talking about the division of revenue today. One of the challenges the counties face is the flow of monies from the National Government to the county governments. What is also at risk and being discussed is how much are the funds? Recently, we had the deficit which we said could not be achieved. The mitigating factor for the deficit we have for the revenues within the"
},
{
"id": 1498353,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498353/?format=api",
"text_counter": 513,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
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{
"id": 1498354,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498354/?format=api",
"text_counter": 514,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": null,
"content": "counties should be those county own revenue processes and generation. We are not talking about it to kill it. Counties must generate their own revenue. They must levy taxes in a processed manner that is good for everyone, without injuring the entire economy of the country, other counties around them and the people. This is not impossible, despite the fact that we have put several hurdles because it happens in other jurisdictions like the United States of America. In America, the GDP and economy of States, which operate like counties in Kenya, is much bigger than even the Kenyan economy. Florida is a very good example. They can even give a loan to Kenya as a State, despite the fact that they are just a State within America. It is an equivalent of a county in Kenya, but its economy is bigger. That is what we must have envisioned, especially myself given my background in history and government. That is where our counties should go. So, we should still do it in a manner that encourages collection of taxes so that they fill in the gap that we have in terms of revenue within the counties. This is because we expected that, at one time, they should be even more independent than they are. Currently, they are fully dependent on the national Government. That causes a challenge such that when funds have not been disbursed to counties, there are threats to shut them down for example, by Monday. It is so absurd when I see a leader saying that they want to close counties by Monday, like the closure and the operation of counties depend on a statement by one particular leader. So, we need to encourage the collection of revenue. I also heard something which we must correct and deal with. Do we make laws in retrospect? This is because in this Bill, there is an introduction of a committee of five, the transition committee, which will review all the other taxes that were done before this law was made. Allow me to use the example of the Westminster. We do not make laws in retrospect. So, how shall we go back? According to Article 209 Constitution, we should have left this to the counties themselves to re-do what they had done. This is because progressive parliaments can make laws that can nullify the ones that were made by previous governments. So, we do not necessarily need a committee that will supervise them. But if the law goes through and they are given timelines, their own assemblies can bring those as Bills and deal with them in their own governments. Every Parliament is supreme and independent and is not bound by the previous Parliament. So, this is an area where we shall discuss with the Mover - all of us not just myself - so that we see how to amend it without necessarily looking like we are making this law in retrospect. Therefore, as I support this Bill, there are areas which we shall look into so that in the implementation, we do not kill the spirit of devolution. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support."
},
{
"id": 1498355,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498355/?format=api",
"text_counter": 515,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
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"content": " Those are times when the Speaker would wish to be on the Floor to contribute. Your points are very well taken. As a matter of fact, for the information of Members of Parliament, Kenya is one of the least taxed countries in the world. Our tax revenue to GDP ratio is 7 per cent. Countries like France go up to 46 per cent. I have heard that from Hon. Mutunga and now Hon. Omboko. Those are some things we need to seriously study ourselves and get our economists to give lectures to Parliament so that we do not live in isolation but in the globe."
},
{
"id": 1498356,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498356/?format=api",
"text_counter": 516,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Thika Town, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a",
"speaker": null,
"content": " On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1498357,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498357/?format=api",
"text_counter": 517,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
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"content": " Yes, what is your point of order, Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a?"
},
{
"id": 1498358,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498358/?format=api",
"text_counter": 518,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Thika Town, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, I stand on a point of order."
},
{
"id": 1498359,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498359/?format=api",
"text_counter": 519,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Mugambi Rindikiri spoke off the record)"
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"id": 1498360,
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"text_counter": 520,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Thika Town, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1498361,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1498361/?format=api",
"text_counter": 521,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
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"content": " Hon. Rindikiri, do not harass Hon. Alice."
}
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