HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, POST, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"count": 1608389,
"next": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=148494",
"previous": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=api&page=148492",
"results": [
{
"id": 1503122,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503122/?format=api",
"text_counter": 362,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this Public Finance Management (Amendment) (No. 3) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 44 of 2024)."
},
{
"id": 1503123,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503123/?format=api",
"text_counter": 363,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "As the title stipulates, the Bill principally amends the Public Finance Management Act to actualise the provisions of Article 187 of our Constitution. Just for the record, Article 187 of the Constitution deals with the transfer of functions between the two levels of Government— the national and county governments. Article 187(1) says that a function or power of government at one level may be transferred to another by agreement between the two levels if one of the functions or powers would be more effectively performed or exercised by the"
},
{
"id": 1503124,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503124/?format=api",
"text_counter": 364,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1503125,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503125/?format=api",
"text_counter": 365,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "receiving government. It is if the transfer of a function or power is not prohibited by the legislation under which it is to be performed."
},
{
"id": 1503126,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503126/?format=api",
"text_counter": 366,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "That is to tell you that the drafters of our Constitution 2010 anticipated or envisaged situations where there is no prohibition by legislation that the two levels of Government may transfer functions. The drafters of our 2010 Constitution anticipated or envisaged that situations may arise where there is no prohibition by legislation that the national Government may find that a particular function that is given to it under the Fourth Schedule of our Constitution is better performed at the county level and may therefore seek to transfer that function. Conversely, also, a county government may find that a particular function conferred to them under the Fourth Schedule of our Constitution is better performed by the national Government. Therefore, we need a law or this amendment to actualise the provisions of this Article of the Constitution. Article 187(2) of the Constitution says that if a function or power is transferred from a government at one level to a government at the other level, arrangements shall be put in place to ensure that the resources necessary for the performance of the function or exercise of the power are transferred. Article 187(2)(b) says that constitutional responsibility for the performance of the function or exercise of the power shall remain with the government to which it is assigned by the Fourth Schedule. The Mover of the Motion, my very able Deputy Whip, said that we are actualising the resourcing of these transferred functions. In doing so, we are actualising Article 187(2)(a) of the Constitution that we shall have in place arrangements to ensure resources necessary for the performance of that function that is being transferred follow that function. Our colleagues in the Senate are fond of saying that resources follow functions. That is what Senators keep telling us. In fact, even governors have, for the last 10 years, been saying that resources follow functions. Therefore, if we have devolved functions to county governments, resources must follow. We are now also, from the National Assembly today, telling them the same. A county government may decide by agreement to designate a certain function that belongs to the county government to the national Government. For instance, the county government of Kiambu, where I come from, may decide to designate the running of level one, two and three hospitals to the national Government because they feel they do not have the adequate capacity or that function will be better performed by the national Government. I encourage many county governments to consider ceding, for instance, Level 4 hospitals to the national Government. What we are now saying in this Bill is that if that situation arises by agreement, then the particular county government, as I gave the example of Kiambu County, if they had budgeted for resources for that particular function, then those resources must follow that function to wherever it is going and the budget as was approved. I do not want to belabour what the Mover of the Motion has already said. We must have cash flow projections as provided for in Clauses 186F and 186E. All those speak to that particular issue. Therefore, this is a simple and easy Bill with only two clauses. I ask Hon. Members to support the Bill. There is another Bill with amendments to the Public Finance Management Act. Without anticipating debate, I beg to second and ask members to support."
},
{
"id": 1503127,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503127/?format=api",
"text_counter": 367,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
},
{
"id": 1503128,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503128/?format=api",
"text_counter": 368,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
},
"content": " Hon. (Dr) Wilberforce Oundo."
},
{
"id": 1503129,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503129/?format=api",
"text_counter": 369,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the Public Finance Management (Amendment) (No.3) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.3 of 2024). As I do so, it evokes the memory of Nairobi Metropolitan Services. It takes us back to the turncoat when the Governor signed the transfer instrument, but a few hours later, he said he had been intoxicated and did not know what he was signing. That"
},
{
"id": 1503130,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503130/?format=api",
"text_counter": 370,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1503131,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1503131/?format=api",
"text_counter": 371,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Funyula, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo",
"speaker": null,
"content": "is why I must laud the Leader of the Majority Party for bringing the Bill that structures the engagement between the county and the national Government in whichever direction we look at it. The drafters of the Constitution set out the mandate of each level of Government as clearly set out in Article 186 of the Constitution of Kenya, which is clearly stipulated in the Fourth Schedule. The running theme in the Constitution is that Kenya is one undivided nation, and the various levels of Government are purely for service delivery and administrative purposes. Consequently, none of the functions should ever be left unattended because there is a struggle or a tiff between the national Government and county government. The Bill has been presented pursuant to Article 187 of the Constitution, which contemplates that at one time or another, either of the levels of Government will be unable to undertake those functions or will find it more suitable and fit for either level to undertake them. The provisions provided for here provide adequate safeguards so that we do not have a situation that happened in Nairobi Metropolitan Services where there were no structures at all. There was no enabling legislation or law to support the transfer. I sit in the Public Accounts Committee, and one of the biggest pending bills on account of the State House and the Office of the President literally comes out of this kind of arrangement, where the county government transferred some services or functions to the national Government but without a legal framework on how to transfer the liabilities and assets. That is why it is refreshing that Clause 186E of the Bill provides a framework for recording assets and liabilities and transferring them to the end of the transfer arrangement. I know this contemplated the transfer agreement, but it would have been better if the period of the transfer was clearly stipulated in the law at any given time. If we have a strong presidency that can arm-twist, like what happened between the last regime and Nairobi City County, it means any transferred function will be done in perpetuity or for a more extended period than it is. Actually, it should be done so that there is capacity building during the transfer. I would request, if time allows, that any transfer agreement, especially from the county to the national Government, should be for the purposes of capacity building to ensure the county government has developed adequate capacity and infrastructure to run those services more so, where the service is a devolved function as contemplated in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. Essentially, we must let the counties perform regardless of their failings and shortcomings. We must put in place mechanisms to allow them to operate. We could have also provided for some element of public participation such that before a transfer of a function occurs, there must be some semblance of public participation. Residents of a particular county should be asked if they agree that a county has failed, is unable or is lacking adequate capacity so that the function can be transferred to the national Government. It must be a consultative process. As it is now, it is going to be a unilateral process whereby the county, the Governor and the president can simply sit down and transfer a function. In the same way, since the National Assembly represents the people of Kenya and their interests, there must be a mechanism in this Bill to allow some approval process at the national level by the National Assembly to permit the national Government to transfer a function that is exclusive of the national Government to the county government. At any given time, everybody must carry their responsibility. With the challenges the county governments are facing in the health sector and the education sector in Early Childhood Education (ECD), we can have a structured debate to find out what functions should be transferred. As the Leader of the Majority Party has indicated, we can, for instance, discuss if the Level 4 referral hospitals can be transferred to the national Government. There is a hospital in Kiambu County where an intern doctor committed suicide. In the same hospital, four months later, another intern nurse committed suicide. Does it mean professional standards are different? We do not hear of a medical doctor committing suicide in"
}
]
}