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{
"id": 1522112,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522112/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Okiya Omtatah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Yes, thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. When the time caught up with me on the Conflict of Interest Bill, (National Assembly Bills No. 12 of 2023), I was just at the point where I was saying that the institutions that we have given a chance to ensure that conflict of interest is addressed include the Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC). Now we are trying to push, according to this Act, almost all matters of conflict of interest will fall under the EACC. Looking at Chapter 6 of the Constitution, the few articles there especially Article 73 and 75, there is a question of conflict of interest arises which puts this mandate under the function of the EACC under Article 79, where the EACC is created to enforce Chapter 6, and one of the things under Chapter 6 is conflict of interest. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1522113,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522113/?format=api",
"text_counter": 119,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Okiya Omtatah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Conflict of interest only becomes a problem when it is not well handled. It is not intrinsically bad. That is why we are told that if you have a conflict of interest in a matter, you can pronounce that interest and either you can recuse yourself from a proceeding and stuff like that. Conflict of interest is also a major issue when it comes to determining disputes and whatever, especially for judicial officers where they are conflicted, they will tend to say, “I cannot sit on this matter because my judgment might be clouded by certain factors that make me a conflicted person.” So, that for me, is a good development. It is within the core competence of the EACC to address. Another issue that we may need to address is the capacity of the EACC. The EACC still implements the Anti-corruption and Economic Crime Act (ACECA) and the Anti corruption law of 2003, which created it as an entity to fight crime. However, when it comes to Article 79 of the new Constitution, the EACC is not created to fight crime. The EACC was created to enforce a code of conduct, which is Chapter 6 which is largely preventative. It is supposed to prevent a problem from occurring. They should come and look at systems and ensure that things like conflict of interest are not there, people are smartly dressed, they are reporting to work on time and not disappearing from their work stations because they are serving the public and stuff like that. I will call show of account of people. State officers are not employed, but earn several salaries. However, the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) has forgotten that. It thinks fighting crime is to be more media friendly. You will see them chasing policemen who have taken some bribe. I urge the EACC now that it is taking on this heavy task of being the sole custodian of the conflict of interest, which is an issue under Chapter 6, which is their mandate--- We should consider whether the EACC has any role to play as an organ of enforcing criminal law. Under Article 247 of the Constitution, the Parliament can set up special police units. The question of theft of public funds must be dealt with by a uniformed force and not a civilian contraption like the EACC. The Criminal Investigations Department (CID) already has an economic crimes desk. Let us beef it up and let the enforcement of criminal law remain within the ambit of the National Police Service (NPS). Let the EACC do what they were created to do in the Constitution; to enforce the code of conduct under Chapter 6 of the Constitution. As a House, we need to look at the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act (ACECA) and see whether it is still a good law as framed or we need to put it under the enforcement of the police. If need be, a uniformed police unit be put up to deal with the theft of public funds. We will not get very far if we leave that critical issue to a civilian formation. As you can see, big crimes in this country are hardly punished. I have never seen a report of the EACC where they have gone into the budgets of a county government or the national Government to interrogate and ferret out budgeted corruption. I have never seen that happen, yet that would be an area where they would be acting proactively to prevent abuse of office. When the Eurobond happened and became hot in 2015, the EACC undertook to conduct an investigation and give us a report. Up until today, no report from the EACC has come on the Eurobond, where as matters stand today, USD7.2 billion is not visible in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1522114,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522114/?format=api",
"text_counter": 120,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Okiya Omtatah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "public records. The EACC has done nothing about that. Instead, they are clamoring for more powers. The Parliament has reviewed the report on the Conflict of Interest Bill. It is good. We are going to pass this Bill and give them those powers. However, are they going to do anything with it? In fact, the EACC has become a laughing stock in some of the counties to a point whereby county officials will tell you to go to the EACC and they will sort them out when they come. They have become a laughable entity that has not even cracked most of the issues that come up. Personally, I have taken so many cases to the EACC, but they just evaporate. They delay and then evaporate. I am seeing the same--- The Conflict of Interest Bill might just be another opportunity for rent-seekers to run wild in this country, wearing badges of the EACC. It is my plea that we take a sober look at the EACC and strip it of the powers that allows it to be the forum where theft by servants is not criminalized, but sanitized by being mischaracterized as corruption. The word “corruption” does not carry the same sting that the word “theft” carries even in the English Language. Let alone the fact that in our mother tongue, we do not have the word for corruption. In Swahili, we have a word called “ ufisadi ”. The other day, I saw one of the leaders in Tanzania say that it was invented by Kenyans. We have Swahili scholars like Sen. Wakoli here who can assist us understand whether “ufisadi” is sheng or a proper Swahili word. The Tanzanians say that it came from Kenya. I would request that I be informed briefly before I continue contributing."
},
{
"id": 1522115,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522115/?format=api",
"text_counter": 121,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Would you want to inform him?"
},
{
"id": 1522116,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522116/?format=api",
"text_counter": 122,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wafula",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 348,
"legal_name": "Davis Wafula Nakitare",
"slug": "davis-nakitare"
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"content": "Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The other term for “ Ufisadi” ni"
},
{
"id": 1522117,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522117/?format=api",
"text_counter": 123,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "mulungula, kuchukua hongo ama rushwa. Haya yote ni maneno ya visawe kuashiriakwamba hongo, rushwa ama mulungula ni donda sugu katika taasisi ya afya nchiniKenya. Asante, Bi Spika wa Muda."
},
{
"id": 1522118,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522118/?format=api",
"text_counter": 124,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Okiya Omtatah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you for the information. I could not put it better. When terms become that difficult, then there is a problem. We should call this theft by servants, which should be handled by the police. When I steal a chicken, I am not accused of corruption. However, when I steal a billion shillings, I am accused of corruption. I do not understand it. This is technically a way of saying that we create two laws for the citizens of Kenya; one for the rich and well-connected, and another one for the small people. The people who steal from the wagon are called thieves and those who steal the whole train plus the railway line are called corrupt. Then it becomes tricky when you try to look for corruption in the penal code. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is my plea that the EACC should be limited to matters of ethics. I would want a situation whereby the EACC would operate like a meat inspector. When a meat inspector goes to a butchery and finds meat which is unfit for human consumption being sold, they do not take over the work of the police. They call the police to the site and let them take over the criminal aspect of the issue. Let the EACC ensure enforcement of Chapter 6 of the Constitution when investigating corruption. However, where they encounter criminality, let them hand it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1522119,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522119/?format=api",
"text_counter": 125,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Okiya Omtatah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "over to the police. It is upon this House to enact legislation that will align the ACECA with the police. Alternatively, under Article 247 of the Constitution, we can form a new police unit to deal exclusively with corruption. That will help us. Civilians will not be able to stop the theft of public funds. Let us give it to uniformed police, and that goes to the question of even the medicine. Let the uniformed police enter these hospitals where medicines are missing and act, not the EACC. With those few remarks, I support the Report from the Joint Committee of the two Houses recommending the passing of the Conflict of Interest Bill. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker."
},
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"id": 1522120,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522120/?format=api",
"text_counter": 126,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Okiya Omtatah. Majority Leader, proceed."
},
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"id": 1522121,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1522121/?format=api",
"text_counter": 127,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
},
"content": " Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to also add my voice to this Report of the Mediation Committee of the Conflict of Interest Bill. This is an interesting Bill because it has passed both Houses of Parliament and ended up in the Mediation Committee after a protracted battle. The first battle was between Members and the second, and most importantly, was between this House and the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). You will recall that it was on the basis of this law, that EACC issued a communique, trying to, at the time – I still hold the view, to this day, that that was a disparage on this House, founded on a misunderstanding of what was the reasoning behind the proposed deletions and amendments that our Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee had proposed. After that, they duly apologised, appeared, and gave their proposal. As a House, we pass laws in the best interest of a country. We may not have an entirely complete view of every particular item that comes before this House, but I know for a fact that every time this House sits down to legislate, we do it in the best interest of the country. That is why we are a lawmaking House. The Conflict of Interest Bill is no exception. At the time, EACC told us that perhaps this is the only missing piece of the puzzle for them to vanquish the dragon of corruption in this country. I was excited about that because I said then we must give it to them because corruption destroys nations. Nations rise and fall on account of their ability to fight corruption. There is no debate about where Kenya would have been today if it were not for the corrupt practices that are deeply rooted and ingrained in the culture and societal fabric of the Kenyan people. Until the day we finally slay this dragon, we shall continue to be an average country punching way below its weight on account of the fact that ours is a rigged system. When we had the invasion in Parliament, and we passed that Motion that broke ranks and Members spoke as one House, part of the recommendations that we spoke to on that particular day was the need to sit with EACC and listen to them on their proposal on what is it that holds them back from making Kenya a corrupt free country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}