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{
"id": 1523412,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523412/?format=api",
"text_counter": 358,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Otiende, I thought this is a Joint Report. What is your point of order?"
},
{
"id": 1523413,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523413/?format=api",
"text_counter": 359,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Rarieda, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Otiende Amollo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, I need your direction. Ordinarily, I do not interrupt my Chairman, Hon. Murugara. I am a member of that Committee. I wrote a letter to the Speaker dated 27th February 2025, and I had hoped that he would have given some directions. If he did not give directions, then you may consider the matter. I would still be happy if you pronounce yourself on it and then we proceed. I brought to the Speaker’s attention that the Report being considered is a Joint Report of the National Assembly and the Senate. On 9th October 2024, the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs tabled a Report, which also considered the very same NADCO Report. I had sought the Speaker’s attention and direction on how we would treat the two Reports, and whether, indeed, it would be in order that, as we consider the current Report, we be allowed to look at the two Reports jointly. The reason for that is that in the Report tabled last year, a number of members of the Committee dissented in a few instances. Hon. TJ Kajwang’, Hon. Dawood, Hon. Adan and myself dissented in very specific points. I thought it would benefit this House if, in the course of our contributions, we are allowed to refer to those points of dissent which are not in the current Report. Without derailing debate, I would be very happy if you pronounced yourself and allowed us to do that. It is not a dissent with the entire Report. It is a minority opinion in very specific areas that we had pointed out. That is the direction I wanted. I am happy to table that letter, if need be. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1523414,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523414/?format=api",
"text_counter": 360,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Otiende, was the other Report you are referring to tabled and debated in this House?"
},
{
"id": 1523415,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523415/?format=api",
"text_counter": 361,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Rarieda, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Otiende Amollo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " It was tabled on 9th October 2024. I brought it to the attention of the Speaker so that we could get clarity as to what happened after it was tabled."
},
{
"id": 1523416,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523416/?format=api",
"text_counter": 362,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Has it been debated? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1523417,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523417/?format=api",
"text_counter": 363,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Rarieda, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Otiende Amollo",
"speaker": null,
"content": " To the best of my knowledge, it has not been debated."
},
{
"id": 1523418,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523418/?format=api",
"text_counter": 364,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " My direction on this matter is that we shall proceed, and the next time this Report is scheduled for debate, we will give communication on the issue Hon. Otiende has raised."
},
{
"id": 1523419,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523419/?format=api",
"text_counter": 365,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I wish to confirm that the first Report by the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs was tabled, but the House Business Committee had to shelve it in favour of the Joint Report, which is what is before the House for debate today. I have always agreed with Hon. Otiende Amollo that the dissents that were in that Report should be points of argument while debating this Report. The National Assembly and the Senate established NADCO vide resolutions passed on 16th August 2023 and 29th August 2023, respectively, to, among other things, facilitate dialogue and consensus-building and recommend appropriate constitutional, legal and policy reforms on issues of concern to the people of Kenya in line with the Constitution and the laws of the Republic of Kenya, while respecting the functional and institutional integrity of State organs. To this end, NADCO submitted its report to Parliament with proposals to amend the Constitution and various statutes. The National Assembly and the Senate adopted the NADCO Report on 22nd and 21st February 2024, respectively. Following the adoption of the NADCO Report by the two Houses, the Speakers of the two Houses issued concurrent communications on 5th March 2024, in which they directed the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and the Senate Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights to hold joint sittings to do three things: 1. To consider proposals to amend the Constitution and recommend to the Houses the manner of actualising recommendations of NADCO on amendment of the Constitution. 2. Consider any proposed amendments to statutes or enactments of new statutes that may be consequential to the proposed amendments to the Constitution. 3. Submit a report to the Houses recommending the manner of actualising the recommendations of the NADCO Report. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Speakers and the Leaders of the Majority and Minority Parties of both Houses deliberated on the modalities for implementing the recommendations of the Report and agreed as follows: 1. To refer the proposals to amend the Constitution to the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs of the National Assembly and the Senate Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights for consideration. The draft Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024 by NADCO is actually annexed to the Report and members are encouraged to obtain a copy so as to look at the proposed amendment Bill. 2. To introduce the following legislative proposals in the National Assembly: (a) The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission Amendment Bill 2024; (b) The Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission Amendment Bill 2024; (c) The Leader of Opposition Bill 2024; and, (d) The National Government Coordination Amendment Bill 2024. 3. To introduce the following Legislative Proposals in the Senate: (a) The Elections Offences Amendment Bill 2024; (b) The Elections Amendment Bill 2024; (c) The Statutory Instruments Amendment Bill 2024; and, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1523420,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523420/?format=api",
"text_counter": 366,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(d) The Political Parties Amendment Bill 2024. Hon. Temporary Speaker, with the exception of the legislative proposal on the Leader of Opposition Bill 2024 and the National Government Coordination Amendment Bill 2024, all the other proposals have been published. Some have been passed and others are at an advanced stage of consideration by the two Houses. The two remaining Bills are yet to be published because they require a constitutional amendment. Therefore, until that amendment is effected, the other two proposed Bills cannot be considered. Furthermore, while the framework for realisation of the two-thirds gender principle in Parliament was one of the issues that the National Dialogue Committee had been tasked to address, in its Report, it recommended that the Multi-Sectoral Working Group (MSWG) finalises its work and recommends to Parliament a framework for the implementation of the two-thirds gender principle. As it is very well known, the two-thirds gender rule is one of the thorny issues in this House. It has never been agreed on. Subsequently, in Annexure 5 of the Joint Report, on the 27th of February 2024, the Speaker of the National Assembly notified the House that he was in receipt of the Report of the Multi-Sectoral Working Group on the realisation of the two-thirds gender principle, which is Annexure 6, recommending amendments to the Constitution, the Elections Act and Political Parties Act through the following proposals: 1. The proposed Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024; 2. The proposed Elections Amendment Bill 2024; and, 3. The proposed Political Parties Amendment Bill 2024. On 14th March 2024, an addendum to the Report of the MSWG on the realisation of the two-thirds gender principle, which is Annexure 7 of the Joint Report, was submitted to Parliament. The Report contained a revised draft of the Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024, and that is Annexure 8. To this end, the Committee held joint sittings on 7th and 16th April 2024 to consider the NADCO Report. However, due to the conflicting schedules of the two Houses, the Committees were unable to finalise the consideration of the NADCO Report within the initial 45 days. Consequently, as the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, I requested the Rt. Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly to extend time for consideration of the NADCO Report by another 45 days, and to authorise the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs to consider the Report independent of the Senate Committee. This request was granted and the National Assembly Committee held sittings on 19th and 24th September 2024, where they deliberated on the NADCO Report, and considered the proposed Constitution Amendment Bills by NADCO and by the MSWG, and tabled its Report in the House on the 9th of October 2024. Similarly, the Senate Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights considered the NADCO Report and the MSWG Report, but did not table its report to pave way for harmonisation of the recommendations of the two Committees on the implementation of the two reports. Hon. Temporary Speaker, consequently, the two Committees reconvened on 2nd December 2024 to deliberate on and harmonise their recommendations on the actualisation of the proposals contained in the NADCO and the MSWG reports. Thereafter, the Committees adopted their Joint Report on 4th December 2024. In undertaking the assignment, the Committees took note of the Report of the Multi-Sectoral Working Group on the realisation of the two-thirds gender rule, observed that the Report of the draft Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill proposed by the same group should be read and considered as part of the NADCO Report. That recommendation is actually in our Report. This was on the basis that the realisation of the two-thirds gender principle was one of the areas that NADCO was mandated to address. NADCO deferred the consideration of the matter to allow the MSWG to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1523421,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1523421/?format=api",
"text_counter": 367,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": "comprehensively address the issue, including proposing appropriate amendments to the Constitution and to any relevant statutes that touch on the two-thirds gender principle. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the two Committees covered all the aspects and gave their recommendation on the realisation of the NADCO Report. The Committees deliberated all the clauses contained in the proposed Bills proposing amendments to the Constitution, and made observations as contained in the Joint Report. Further, the Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024, proposed by the MSWG on implementation of the two-thirds gender principle, proposes to implement it by way of gender top-up through party lists. The Committees considered the draft Bill and made its observations as contained in Chapter 3 of the Joint Report, which we urge Members to obtain copies of and read so that they can enrich their debate on the matter. Chapter 4 of the Joint Report provides the road mark for actualisation of the proposed amendments, including the legal framework or the process of amending the Constitution. Members will note that there are two ways of amending the Constitution in this country, which are the parliamentary initiative and the popular initiative, which is known as the referendum. To conclude, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Chapter 5 of the Joint Report provides a number of recommendations. For instance, the Committee recommends that the draft Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024, proposed by the National Dialogue Committee, be revised by deleting proposals. These are the proposals we made as regards the draft Constitution of Kenya Amendment Bill 2024: 1. Requirement for state and the public officers to promptly obey court orders. The justification is that there are existing legislative provisions that adequately cater for this. 2. Delete the proposal on extension of the term of the Senate from five years to seven years which means reject the proposal. Sufficient justification was not made for the proposed amendment. Additionally, altering the term and date of elections of Members of the Senate requires a complete overhaul of the Constitution. Thirdly, entrenchment of the office of the Leader of Opposition. This is another one we have, unfortunately, proposed to be deleted. The proposal undermines the presidential system of government in Kenya which we have in our Constitution. Further, Article 108 of the Constitution provides for party leaders in the National Assembly to include Leader of the Minority Party, who is essentially Leader of the Opposition in Parliament. The same provisions are replicated in the Senate Standing Orders. We have a problem with the office of the Leader of Opposition, while we have Leader of the Minority Party in the House. Fourthly, deregistration by a political party is one of the ways which one would vacate the office of a Member of Parliament, County Governor or Member of the County Assembly. There is a proposal in the NADCO Report that one of the ways you can lose your seat is if your party deregisters you. We had issues with this. This is the justification. The proposal is an affront to democracy because political parties are not as democratic as envisaged by the framers of the Constitution. Considering that Members of Parliament are elected by people, the proposal gives the party leaders excessive powers prone to abuse. This would breed dictatorship and subvert the will of the people, as the right of recall should only be exercised by the people but not political parties. The current Political Parties Act and related legislation already regulate party discipline effectively. Article 103 of the Constitution allows Parliament to create laws promoting party fidelity and managing party membership changes. The Committee believes party discipline procedures should be based on facts and merit, but not law. Fifthly, there is the provision for recognition and status of representatives in international legislative bodies which Kenya is a member. This proposal proposes that we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}
]
}