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"id": 1524932,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524932/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Murugara, Hon. Tindi Mwale, Hon. Rindikiri and Hon. Makilap could you all take your seats. Consult in low tones so that we can hear the Member contributing."
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"id": 1524933,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524933/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Gilgil, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you for the protection. For the first time, chairpersons of departmental committees interacted directly with the MTDS and more importantly, engaged stakeholders on it. That gave us a unique opportunity to have a dashboard experience in terms of the general overview in the country. We have also taken time to learn a lot of terms that we did not know. I used to think ATM only means Automated Teller Machine. I have realised it has another new meaning which is the Average Time for Maturity of debt. There are many issues and I know the Chairlady has enumerated most of them. I will touch on some of the issues that were raised."
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Loud consultations)"
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Order, Hon. Members. We are discussing a very important Motion. I wish that we hear the Member in silence."
},
{
"id": 1524936,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524936/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Gilgil, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. There is a lot of excitement. I think it is because of the previous Motion that has passed on the Floor of the House. On some of the issues that we have raised, we took time to meet with different stakeholders. We met with the Controller of Budget, the office of the Auditor-General and Ministry of National Treasury and Economic Planning until late last night. We also met and received memoranda from other stakeholders, including a civil society that wrote to us. We also got a written memorandum from the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). Our debt has been a matter of discussion for obvious reasons. It puts a strain in the management of our revenue versus expenditure. The reason it is heavy in our budget is because it has also risen over the years. Right now, we are speaking of 67.5 per cent of the GDP, against a recommendation and something that is put in law under the PFM Act of 55 per cent (plus 5 per cent) by 2028. One of the issues that we raised with the National Treasury was their timeline, in terms of ensuring that our debt is manageable and has come down to the recommended percentage. The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury was very clear that it has been declining. We are now at 65.7 per cent but very soon, he said by 2028, we will not have 55 per cent, but 53 per cent. Fiscal deficit is the difference between government revenue and spending in any fiscal year. It is at 4.3 per cent of GDP this year, it is estimated to be at 3.5 per cent of GDP in the Financial Year 2026/2027. It will eventually be at 3.2 per cent in the Financial Year 2027/2028. The issue of balance of these debts in terms of internal and external borrowing was another matter that was very critical. It has been proven that we are relying more on domestic borrowing than external borrowing. I know the internal borrowing is termed higher and more expensive. That is why you see the rates are different. During our review, we realised that the average interest charged on domestic debt is 13.2 per cent, relative to the interest rate on external debt which is 3.7 per cent, thus becoming substantially more expensive. The reason external borrowing is relatively cheaper than domestic borrowing is due to the large share of concessional loans from multilateral lenders such as the World Bank and our development partners. Indeed, 54 per cent of the total external debt portfolio is concessional which significantly contributes to the sustainability of Kenya's debt. The other issue that Members raised is right application of debt. What does that mean? There is no single country I have heard in the world that does not have debt. However, where it goes is what Kenyans and many of our voters are keen on. If you are borrowing to build The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1524937,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524937/?format=api",
"text_counter": 874,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Gilgil, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker": null,
"content": "roads, which are they? If you are borrowing to construct dams, which ones are they? That is why one of the recommendations that we have put to the National Treasury is that it should, in the next very few days, form a working committee to assess the effective utilisation of these borrowed funds. This will be a cross-cutting team by MDAs and the Controller of Budget so that we are able to incorporate how to monitor these debts well. The other recommendation is that the National Treasury will be expected to record in the debt register the details of this utilisation. The inter-agency team is supposed to do exactly that. Through our engagement with the Controller of Budget, a very brilliant lady, we found out that some of our neighbouring countries are doing very well, in terms of managing their debts and even making this information available. Article 35 of the Constitution ensures that you are able to get this information very easily. It should not be so hard to know how much we owe which country and in what terms. When the Controller of Budget appeared before us, she gave us very interesting information about the United Republic of Tanzania. She had just come from there. She told us that they had implemented an advanced and fully functional automated debt management system integrated with cash management system. As a country, sometimes, we get jittery in terms of getting efficiency. We have the brains, know-how and know what to do. We should have an automated debt management system integrated together with IFMIS. This is not so hard so as to ensure efficiency and account for our debt, shilling by shilling. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other issue that the Controller of Budget told the Committee is that Tanzania has also achieved a single treasury account. This means that they are able to track the monies better instead of having multiple accounts across the place. I know there has been debate, especially on the pay bill No.222222 which is e-citizen, and the one pay bill that is for the Government. However, that is a medium but not an account. We should have one single treasury account. This will help us to track our monies and see exactly where our debt is going. I know time is limited. I see my light is on. I would like to appreciate our Parliamentary Budget Office…"
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"id": 1524938,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524938/?format=api",
"text_counter": 875,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " I will give you one more minute."
},
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"id": 1524939,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524939/?format=api",
"text_counter": 876,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Gilgil, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker": null,
"content": " It will help me to wind up. The Parliamentary Budget Office is quite key. When we were doing these appearances, we got staff members from the National Treasury and Parliament of Zimbabwe benchmarking to find out how we do it. I appreciate all the teams and these Members who sat for long hours to ensure that we are here today. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for the additional time. I second the Motion."
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"id": 1524940,
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"text_counter": 877,
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"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Members",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Put the Question."
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