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{
"id": 1524952,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524952/?format=api",
"text_counter": 889,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1524953,
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"text_counter": 890,
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"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah’s microphone went off)"
},
{
"id": 1524954,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524954/?format=api",
"text_counter": 891,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for adding me one minute. As I was saying, the directive by the President has another one-and-a-half month to go. The National Treasury must also, in line with the directive by the President, ensure that e- procurement becomes a reality at the end of this first quarter. By the time the National Treasury brings its annual estimates on 29th or 30th April, it must report to the House whether it has made the e-procurement a reality. By 31st May, it must report on the automation of IFMIS, the debt management system and TSA. The funds held by MDAs have become an avenue for corruption. You find bank managers queuing in state departments and parastatals because many of them hold huge amounts of money in bank accounts earning small interest. Then, the same money is given to the Government in terms of domestic public debt. There is no reason why the Government should be borrowing its own money. We must ensure that the TSA becomes a reality so, that even when we borrow money, we are not borrowing our own money. There is no reason why an MDA should bank in a commercial bank and earn interest of 4 or 5 per cent and then we go back as the Government and borrow the same money from the market from 11 to12 per cent. It is not right and we must ensure this does not happen. I hope the Cabinet Secretary of the National Treasury and Economic Planning, Hon. John Mbadi, who is a former member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Principal Secretary Kiptoo are listening to me. They must actualise the TSA. The automation that this House has recommended in this policy resolution must not be a talk, but must be actualised. May I remind them what the President directed during the State of the Nation Address that by the end of the first quarter, we expect to see e-procurement in place. I beg to support."
},
{
"id": 1524955,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524955/?format=api",
"text_counter": 892,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Before you sit, what will happen to them if they do not actualise? This is not the first time we are talking about the TSA. What will happen to them?"
},
{
"id": 1524956,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524956/?format=api",
"text_counter": 893,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is not up to me to say what will happen to them. But if the appointing authority has publicly pronounced himself..."
},
{
"id": 1524957,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524957/?format=api",
"text_counter": 894,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " No! This is will be a House resolution."
},
{
"id": 1524958,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524958/?format=api",
"text_counter": 895,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kikuyu, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, House resolutions are in writing and are given to the National Treasury upon approval. When they receive them, they should start to count the days up to 31st May and 31st July for actualisation of the TSA. If they do not, they will know that we have teeth to bite. Those who have refused and threatened Members of Parliament by the road sides have seen what happens."
},
{
"id": 1524959,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524959/?format=api",
"text_counter": 896,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " This is your chance Hon. Murugara."
},
{
"id": 1524960,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524960/?format=api",
"text_counter": 897,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to support the adoption of the report of the Liaison Committee on its consideration of the MTDS, which we are dealing with this afternoon. It is extremely important for this House to know that it is supposed to control the debt of the country. That a debt management system should be in place which is easy to comprehend and understand. In the country, many people think we borrow money and do not account for it. So, it is looted and as a result everybody, including those who are not yet born are debt-ridden. It is not true to say so, because having listened to the officers from the Central Bank and the National Treasury, there are systems in place. Unfortunately, they are not known by Members of Parliament and the public. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1524961,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524961/?format=api",
"text_counter": 898,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Tharaka, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. George Murugara",
"speaker": null,
"content": "As a result, we are all in limbo. As we start this constitutional mandate we have of maintaining the debt system in the country, it is important to implore the National Treasury to avail the necessary paperwork which must be easy to understand and comprehend. Kindly, allow me to touch on one of the issues that arose regarding our debts in the meetings we held with the Cabinet Secretary of the National Treasury. We were convinced that most of the money that we borrow goes to recurrent expenses and not development. This is why there is a hue and cry in the country as to why we borrow and cannot see any development. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it was explained to us that if you borrow money and you do not use it prudently, later on, you would have two problems. One, the debt would be unpopular. Two, you would not see the sense of repaying, and this is the reason why some countries default on their debt obligations. Therefore, it is vitally important for the country to know that we are incurring debts, both domestic and external, but the purpose of those debts is to ensure that the country is better than where it is. We posed one question: Are there countries in this world that are debt-free? We felt that Kenya would in future be a debt-free country. The economists and finance specialists informed us that they are not aware of any country in the world that is debt- free. What they know for sure is that some developed countries are more indebted than developing countries, but they use their monies very prudently. Therefore, to improve transparency and accountability in the anticipated increase of domestic borrowing, the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury should do the following: 1. Within 60 days, form a working committee to establish criteria for assessing effective utilisation of borrowed money; and 2. Record the debt register in details on the utilisation of the money, so that everybody who wants to know how a debt was spent has that information. With those remarks, I beg to support."
}
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}