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{
"id": 1524972,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524972/?format=api",
"text_counter": 909,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Member for Marakwet East."
},
{
"id": 1524973,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524973/?format=api",
"text_counter": 910,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Marakwet East, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kangogo Bowen",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am a Member of the Liaison Committee. We had a long discussion with the National Treasury on the Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy, which is a global practice on how governments manage their debts. Debt management in Kenya has been kept secret from the public for a while. Many Members of this House do not understand how it is carried out in the National Treasury. We observed that the country's debt stands at Ksh11.2 trillion, which is equivalent to 65.7 per cent of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP). It is almost 10 per cent above what this House approved. I want to highlight a few issues out of what the National Treasury presented. The National Treasury is going to borrow close to Ksh832 billion to close the deficit for the Financial Year 2025/2026. They will do that through foreign borrowing at 35 per cent and domestic borrowing at 65 per cent. One issue that came out very clearly is that as a country, compared to other jurisdictions like Tanzania and Uganda, we do not have a debt committee. Our debt is just managed by a few individuals at the National Treasury. We told the National Treasury yesterday that there is need for the National Treasury, the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK), and the Office of Controller of Budget to form a team, together with the Office of the Attorney-General of Kenya to manage our debts as a country. Second, is on debt procurement. This is money we are borrowing. The National Treasury must be subjected to a procurement process like any other procurement process in the country. We have a deficit of Ksh832 billion. The National Treasury should advertise the tender, conduct public participation and procure in an open process. This is so that we can know the rate at which we are getting funds from our local banks like the Kenya Commercial The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1524974,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524974/?format=api",
"text_counter": 911,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Marakwet East, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kangogo Bowen",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Bank (KCB) and the Equity Bank. We should not just have a few individuals locking themselves in a room somewhere within the National Treasury and agreeing with some CEOs on how borrowing will be done. Third, we need to digitise the entire debt management system. We have a very robust Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS). It runs as a single Government payment system, but it is not integrated with the Government payroll, pensions or procurement systems. It is one single payment entry. The Government payroll system should be integrated with IFMIS, so that we can do away with ghost workers. It should be integrated with e- procurement for transparency to stop corruption. It should also be integrated with our registration system so that when one dies in employment and is automatically removed from the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) system, he or she is also automatically removed from the payroll system. By doing so, we will improve how we manage our debt as a country. I support the Report."
},
{
"id": 1524975,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524975/?format=api",
"text_counter": 912,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Member for Seme."
},
{
"id": 1524976,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524976/?format=api",
"text_counter": 913,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. This is a very good development. The debt management strategy has not always been part of the budget process. We did not do it during my first term in Parliament. We started mentioning it during my second term. It has now become a normal part of the budget process, as it should be. I appreciate the work the Liaison Committee has done. Debt is normal. Borrowing is important if we are to grow, develop, and improve our infrastructure. In that process, we will generate jobs and businesses. We need debt. Even at a personal level, you can never grow if you do not borrow. However, as much as debt is necessary, it also has risks. If you borrow money without a clear way of using it, you will have a problem. It will derail the economy. Therefore, a debt management strategy is a must. It will help us to set up thresholds like the debt to GDP ratio. The amounts you borrow must depend on what you generate. A guiding threshold is extremely important. That is what a debt management strategy is. There are also issues like fiscal deficit to GDP ratio. When coming up with the budget, the gap between what we have and what we want must be related to what we can generate. If those parameters guide us and that is the management strategy, then it is important to have a threshold between external and domestic debt. We may think that the bigger problem is external debt, but domestic debt is a problem on its own. First, it crowds out borrowing opportunities for local businesses. Second, the interest rates on domestic debt are more expensive. So, in the end it hurts. We should have a clear criterion that sets a limit on the debt ratio that we should adhere to. I like the recommendations presented on the automated debt management system. If we have an automated system, it will definitely reduce graft and discretion. Without automation, people use discretion and their whims. An automated system checks them. They have to go against it and once they do that, somebody will pick it. So, having an automated system is extremely important."
},
{
"id": 1524977,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524977/?format=api",
"text_counter": 914,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": "If we have an automated debt management system, it must be linked to how the money is being used. If we have such a system like the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS), we can link it to all aspects of financial expenditure like procurement, human resource and debt. It is easier at that point to get things done properly."
},
{
"id": 1524978,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524978/?format=api",
"text_counter": 915,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I like the recommendation of having a treasury single account. It is ridiculous to borrow your own money. Government agencies bank their money and the Government goes to the same bank to borrow the money. So, the Government borrows its own money at a higher risk. The recommendation is good. As recommended here, we should establish a criterion for assessing the effective utilisation of borrowed money. And that is how it should be. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1524979,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524979/?format=api",
"text_counter": 916,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": "With those remarks, I support this Report. I commend the Committee for bringing it forward. This should become part and parcel of our budget process."
},
{
"id": 1524980,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524980/?format=api",
"text_counter": 917,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. David Ochieng’",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Member for Yatta."
},
{
"id": 1524981,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1524981/?format=api",
"text_counter": 918,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Yatta, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Robert Basil",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker for allowing me to contribute to the Report from the Liaison Committee. Borrowing is not a problem, the problem is when we borrow and waste the money. We need to cut wastages and theft. Generation Zoomers talked of austerity measures, and even the President banned politicians from participating in harambees . I was shocked to see the Head of State donating Ksh20 million in a church. Being the Head of State, we respect him. But it is important.…"
}
]
}