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"id": 1545682,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
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"content": "In fact, many people sometimes discuss about this administration and what has been its biggest achievement. While there is debate about the stellar reforms that have been initiated in the agriculture sector, today, you go to public gatherings with coffee farmers or wheat farmers, they appreciate the interventions that have been made that continue to show positive results. However, a keen student of economics management will point out to the fact that avoiding to default and how we have succeeded in the last two years to pay our debts in time still ranks extremely high as the biggest achievement of this administration. At the coming into power of this administration, a default was imminent. Madam Temporary Speaker, you will recall that in political circles, the conversation at that particular time was a matter of when, not if. There were predictions and it had been said this administration would not last more than three months. It was on account of the fact that people knew the landmines that had been left by the previous administration, where everyone was certain that we were going to default and that we are going to go into a financial crisis and a near collapse of our financial systems. How that has not happened remains to be for the history books. While this is a conversation that is perhaps beyond the understanding of many average people who, for one reason or the other, may not comprehend or follow through what this has been about, it remains to be one of the key achievements of this administration. The repaying of the Eurobond in good time, the near billion-dollar repayments of the Standard Gauge Railways (SGR) loan and another syndicated one from one of the commercial institutions - I forget the exact name - that has happened in the last six months, is something worth remembering. Madam Temporary Speaker, therefore, the question that we should ask ourselves as a House and as we consider this Report on the 2025 Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy is: What is it that you are doing to ensure that in future, we shall have a more sustainable economy without appearing to grow it actually to levels beyond our repayment abilities in the near future? If we keep on shifting goalposts, the way I see it being done, we will find ourselves in a very difficult time. We will keep on kicking the can down the road and then it will get to a point where it will no longer be possible to either repay debt and continue thriving. I therefore urge our colleagues in the Committee on Finance and Budget to take this work extremely seriously. I have read through this Report and I am impressed by what they have done, but there is a lot more that they can do. First, pointing out on things which I feel this Committee needs to lead this House into a conversation on, the country must be informed at every given budget-making season, including the Budget Policy Statement season that we are in on how well are we reducing on the fiscal deficit in the last two years. Is it from four percent? There was a promise that in Financial Year 2025/2026, which is the next financial, it, was going to drop beyond three percent. Is it possible, especially with the events of last year’s June, happening, where the Government is not able to realize sufficient revenue; and also, with the continuing growth on public expenditure, on critical expenditure. Sometimes our newspapers choose to be very simplistic and say, there is this Kshs3 billion that is being used for innovation or this or the other. While that is an The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1545683,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
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"content": "important point, it is not the main point in a budget conversation. In a budget that continues to grow and the Budget Policy Statement this year was at 4.3 percent, the fine print needs to be checked against what is it that continues to consume public expenditure. If it is salaries, is it sustainable in this day and age to continue with the year-on increase that almost all public servants continue to earn in a depressed economy such as ours? Is the kind of expenditure sustainable that we see from certain key sectors of the economy? Education is the largest consumer at almost Kshs670 billion in the Budget Policy Statement that I have seen. What is the saving that needs to be made there? Madam Temporary Speaker, why am I focusing my conversation on the fiscal deficit? It is the only known measure that will help us appreciate the balance of revenue"
},
{
"id": 1545684,
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"content": "vis-a-vis"
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"text_counter": 240,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
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"content": "expenditure and the difference with what we are going to borrow to meet the gap there in between. If we continue to borrow in figures of beyond four or five percent, then basically what we are doing is that we may appear to be okay now, but it will eventually catch up with us. This is a challenge that I want to pass on to the Committee on Finance and Budget as I know presently before you, there is an amendment to ensure that we move the year. Remember when we moved from nominal terms to percentage of the GDP on the debt anchor, we set 2028 as a year of moving it downward. That is a figure that you are supposed to grow towards. There is now a proposal before the Committee on Finance and Budget to take it to 2030. I am not sure and I cannot see any Member of that Committee in the House to remind us. While I am willing to be persuaded by the National Treasury on why that particular reality needs to be made, there are other things that need to be adopted with. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have just noticed that the Vice-Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and Budget is here. I hope she is paying attention. If you are to grant that, the only way through which I can support such an amendment is if there is a tightening of the fiscal deficit space and it must be accompanied together with it. There must be a clear path that demonstrates and says that, okay, we can grant it to you up to 2030, but it must demonstrate to us, financial year after the other, a figure cast in law. I know how these budget things work as we have been around this Parliament for a while, to understand that as long as figures remain just a discussion and a report, they are never going to be observed. Perhaps, this is the time that we must bring into the national conversation, the fiscal deficit and have it put into law. So that we know in Financial Year 2025/2026, this is the figure beyond which we cannot be allowed to borrow beyond. Madam Temporary Speaker, in the Financial Year 2026/2027 that figure must studiously come down, because there is a scientific way within which you achieve that 55 per cent by 2030. This is just five years that we are talking about. It is not a very long time; the way people want to put it. If we are not careful and if we do not tighten the path, we will find ourselves to be in this House - God granting us life and citizens granting us the opportunity to be here - in 2029, discussing how to move again that 55 per cent to 2034, unless Parliament did its work with diligence. This is my argument - as a representative of the people and as someone who has keenly followed this conversation over the last two terms of Parliament as Kenya The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1545686,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545686/?format=api",
"text_counter": 241,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
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"content": "continues to struggle with its debt situation - that I hope as the Committee on Finance and Budget considers that proposal from the National Treasury, the only way is to have it anchored in law alongside the percentage of debt at 55 per cent so that it is clearly defined, a percentage beyond which we cannot borrow. If it is three per cent, let it be stated, whatever the figure, so that as we do a budget, we move away from this aspirational budget. I still do not understand the rationale as to why we have to take it at Kshs4.3 trillion, then after three months, there will be a supplementary like what was signed into law today that has reviewed most of those figures downwards on account of non-performance of revenue. Why can we not, from the onset, live within our means and appreciate that things are difficult? We must have a conversation as a country. If it gets to a point where we can no longer go to the markets and borrow beyond a certain limit, there are things that we need to finance. What options are we left with? Reduction in wages, maybe of public servants that earn beyond a certain figure, how much will that realize? It is not a big figure because you have to be realistic and not sensational like many of our journalists in the newsroom. That is only two or three percentile that earn beyond a certain figure. Then, which other places can we save money? The reality is that we live in a country that has yet to understand the dichotomy of balance between politics and the economy. This will continue to be a struggle. If we are not careful, we will collapse this economy because of that demand. As we speak today, many times you attend public functions in the company of the President and when Sen. Maanzo is granted the opportunity to speak in Makueni, he will ask for a particular road or water project to be completed and this or the other since this informs the understanding of the ordinary citizen of whether to vote for an administration or not depending on our electricity, roads and water programmes. These are the three most critical sought-for things. This continues to pile on to our budget, and year after year, you will see the pressure of any administration like the present one that wants to have a second term in office to choose the easier option, which is to be politically-correct, continue funding some of these programmes despite the fact that we may not afford them because that is what the ordinary citizen understands. This conversation that we are having in this House, unfortunately, is an elite conversation to which the ordinary citizen and the ordinary voter have very little connection. Madam Temporary Speaker, having to face an election subsequently troubles many administrations. I see that struggle even in the present administration. The fact that the Government knows that it cannot possibly look down on its citizens and say, \"I know you have asked for this particular programme or this particular road, but given our financial situation, you will have to give me two or three years.\" No Member of Parliament, Cabinet Secretary, President or Deputy President can have the courage to say that to the ordinary citizen yet, if we are to rescue ourselves from this kind of difficulty, we must reach that level of honesty among ourselves as leaders and as a citizen. Unfortunately, because of the political realities of the day, we find ourselves in a difficult space. On Section G of this particular report, the Committee has set a fiscal deficit target at 4.6 per cent of the Gross Domestic Product for the Financial Year The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1545687,
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"text_counter": 242,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
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"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
"slug": "aaron-cheruiyot"
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"content": "2025/2026, 3.8 per cent 2026/2027, 3.5 per cent 2027/2028, in line with a fiscal consolidation path. Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, this is what I was talking about. This percentage must work out to 55 per cent, but this may not work out to 55 per cent by 2030. What is a guarantee? I know this because I have been a member of the Finance and Budget Committee. The 3.5 per cent we are talking about if you check our reports for around 2020; these were the figures that we were talking about then. They are aspirational. There is no discipline to live through them. There is no guarantee that the National Treasury will stick to these recommendations unless we make them law. That is a challenge that I am giving this Committee. What have we learned over the years? If we continue to do these reports, we will be happy to say that these are projected percentages. The only way this will become a reality is the day that we put it into law. Then, after we have closed all the paths for borrowing beyond certain levels, we will come and have an adult conversation in this House and ask ourselves difficult questions, including our colleagues in the National Assembly who keep on growing their National Government Constituency Development Fund (NG-CDF) allocations. They will be faced straight in the eye and be informed that they have to choose whether to fund your institutions where their constituents go or grow your NG-CDF allocation. So long as we leave it as an aspirational figure, we are not going to slay this debt situation. Therefore, if there is a duty that we are being called to in this current session of Parliament, just the same way the Ninth and the Tenth Parliaments were urged to fight and ensure that Kenya gets a new Constitution. The call of this House from the people of the Republic of Kenya today, Sen. Maanzo, is more than anything that they want to hear your voice regarding this issue of debt. We must be clear and we must not go out of old paths that are tried and tested and whose results you already know. We must be willing to bite the bullet and chart new territories that are difficult, but are the only paths that can put this country back to economic recovery. Otherwise, Sen. Maanzo, if we continue the route that we continue to take today, it will be recorded, and it will never be recorded that you sat on the minority side. It is likely that you are a leader in Kenya at that particular point; a powerful Senator and Member of Parliament, when we watch our country sink deeper and further into debt and do nothing about it. This conversation cannot only be sustained through a review or a report by our Finance and Budget Committee on the 2025 Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy, which is a proposal from the National Treasury. Sen. Maanzo, you must ask yourself, how can you expect to find a solution from the people who put us into trouble in the first place? Are we not being foolish as Parliament? We have a whole research unit in the name of the Parliamentary Budget Office, made up of competent people who I have worked with. They are intelligent young men and women who at the height of the protest here in June when we passed that Motion as a House - it is unfortunate because we have not followed through with many of the recommendations. Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, you know that one of the recommendations of that particular Motion was to have a conversation on debt guided by the Parliamentary Budget Office, not the National Treasury. So we tell the National Treasury, \"It is clear you have demonstrated to the people of Kenya that you are not able to show prudence in financial The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1545688,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545688/?format=api",
"text_counter": 243,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": {
"id": 13165,
"legal_name": "Aaron Kipkirui Cheruiyot",
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"content": "management because we find ourselves in this situation because you, people, cannot override interest. Therefore, this is a prescribed solution.\" When you are designing a solution for any problem, you design it knowing or bearing in mind the kind of people that are going to implement it. The National Treasury has demonstrated that the National Assembly may carry the biggest blame when we eventually find ourselves in a situation where we are defaulting on our debt because they cannot be the ones to lead the country. It is only the Senate here, in partnership with the Parliamentary Budget Office, that is able to sit down and consolidate, crunch the numbers and define a fiscal consolidation path, complete with numbers. We pass it as we do the PFM amendment. We should go all the way to 2030, and then define the path for them. Now, you work backwards and illustrate the amount of money available. How do we manage our economy? Unfortunately, we first list the things that we want, then ask ourselves where we will find the money. I do not know anybody else who does that kind of budgeting. I thought the common norm is to first look at what you have, then look at what you afford. I really hope that the Committee on Finance and Budget will lead us into the realisation of that proposal that we passed here in the month of June, 2024, immediately after the invasion of Parliament because we gave a commitment to the country. We cannot get to another June without the committee sitting together with Parliamentary Budget Office to lead the country out of this messy situation as opposed to just ordinary reactions to the proposal. It is very clear in my mind, even as the Senate Majority Leader, that the answer to this debt situation can never come from the National Treasury. It has to come from Parliament. It cannot come from both Houses of Parliament. I dare say, much as you need whatever solution you will have prescribed to pass through both Houses, the Senate must lead the way because we are less conflicted. Many times, people look at the Senate and say that we do not manage any resources. They imagine that it is a bad thing. I actually think that was the intended design of our Constitution. The fact that you are not emotionally invested in any way to budgeted figures makes you a neutral arbiter in the determination of prioritisation of needs. However, so long as you take it to a House like the National Assembly, where Members look into what has gone into the State Department, for reasons that Sen. Maanzo knows better than us, because he used to be in that House - you will never achieve this fiscal consolidation. I hope that Sen. Tabitha Mutinda and members of the PBO have heard my sentiments. I know you are keen and listening to follow through conversations such as this because the Senate must lead the way. I am certain that it is only the Senate of the Republic of Kenya that can lead the country on a proper fiscal consolidation path that is written in law, so that everybody else can be asked to follow through. That is the only way that we shall redeem our country from the debt strain that we find ourselves in. With those many remarks, I beg to support and urge colleagues to take time and read this Report and propose something better than just a report to be voted for, to go gather dust at the National Treasury. I thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1545689,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545689/?format=api",
"text_counter": 244,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Cheruiyot, for that very hearted submission on the debt situation in Kenya. Sen. Maanzo proceed."
},
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"id": 1545690,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545690/?format=api",
"text_counter": 245,
"type": "speech",
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"speaker": {
"id": 13589,
"legal_name": "Maanzo Daniel Kitonga",
"slug": "maanzo-daniel-kitonga"
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"content": "Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to comment on this very important Report and also thank the Committee for making an attempt to look for solutions for this big problem of debt management in the country. I also thank the Senate Majority Leader for giving a way forward, which is more detailed than what the Committee had proposed. You truly have been in the House for many years. If you rely on the National Treasury, you will never get a solution. In fact, we are supposed to be overseeing the National Treasury, but the technocrats there have been mis-advising the Government most of the time yet they do not take any political responsibility. They are not accountable to the people as such. So, we end up finding ourselves with a very big problem. I have looked at the recommendations and found one which is very moving. We should even begin practicing it. It talks about, inclusion of other forms of debt instruments in the future such as Islamic bonds called Sukuk; given bonds to attract ethical and climate-conscious funding. We have been going to the West. The practice with the Islamic financial dealing is that, it is not haram. It does not exploit and has minimum profits. Unfortunately, in order to finance our budget, we still have to borrow. We should start borrowing from friendly nations, which are not going to gain high profits. We can also renegotiate some of the loans because the charges are too high. Some of the countries and organisations which have been funding us are very exploitative to our economies. If we do this, we will do much better. Most importantly, when we get borrowed money, we should utilise it correctly to generate economic activities in the country. We borrowed money from the African Development Bank to develop Thwake Dam. The Government has its own share of contribution just like the bank. However, we delay, and waste time on these contracted projects yet we have contractors on the ground. The government does not perform nor does it make its request in good time. When we delay, the project becomes more expensive and the charges accrue. Therefore, we need to look for friendly funding, as it has been suggested by the Committee, and at the same time utilise the money well. We cannot borrow money, put it in our budget and it ends up being donated in roadside declarations. The President’s advisors should always have the Budget Policy Statement with them, so that when the President or any other person makes promises, they bear in mind what has been budgeted for. If you make promises on projects which are not budgeted for that year, which are not in the Committee of Supply, or which were abandoned a long time ago, you will you reorganise the budget process of the country. This means we are going to get into bigger problems because of politics. Kenyans in every region, want developments. Every region needs roads. There are some important roads in places in Makueni County like the Emali-Ukia Road which passes through rich fruit-growing areas. For ease of movement of the fruits to the international markets those roads must be done. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1545691,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545691/?format=api",
"text_counter": 246,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Maanzo",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13589,
"legal_name": "Maanzo Daniel Kitonga",
"slug": "maanzo-daniel-kitonga"
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"content": "Construction of proper roads makes it cheaper for the country in terms of buying and replacing spare parts, because they are not hard on cars. There are roads in this country especially in Eastern and Northern Kenya where even if you go with new tyres, you are likely to lose all in one journey. We need access to the people there, but tyres are being damaged by bad roads. Economically, it becomes very difficult for the people and the nation. We have to work hard as a nation. I agree with Sen. Cheruiyot that this is the House to give solutions. The National Assembly used to pretend it was the only one to handle the issue of debt borrowing. There was push and pull for a long time, until we ended up getting legal advice on it that, in fact, debt management and associated issues, have to be managed by both the National Assembly and the Senate, hence this Report. I am sure Sen. Cheruiyot will remember, that some years ago the National Assembly used to insist to handle the Budget Policy Statement alone. They would not want it to come to the Senate where we have a voice of reason. We need to utilise more of our experts. I am happy they consulted quite a number of experts and Non- Governmental Organizations (NGOs), Budget Hub, ICPAK, and other professional bodies which think independently of the House and the National Treasury, when dealing with debt management. These people will give us input, so that we are able to do proper public participation on this particular matter, and then take all the good ideas on board. We have Kenyans who have worked for the World Bank and international funding organizations like the African Development Bank (ADB). We have Kenyans who live abroad and have gone through very good experiences. We have templates which we can copy, from countries which have succeeded in debt management. Most importantly we have been borrowing the money---"
}
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}