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"speaker_name": "Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale",
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Debates keep on raging in this country on who is the actual enemy of devolution. It is not too clear, but I am starting to think that Senators, governors and Members of the National Assembly are actually enemies of devolution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Members of the National Assembly are enemies of devolution, including myself. I say this with maximum respect because the object of this Bill is a simple thing - to provide a tool to transfer additional funds from the national Government to the devolved governments in accordance with the recommendation of the Constitution. So, the process was done as you will remember and at its tail end, the recommendations which came from the first enemy - Members of the National Assembly - then disagreed with us. So, we sat and disagreed with them, then created a mediation committee. When you sent us to that mediation committee, we were shown the middle finger. To hell with it. This is the reason why we are now dealing with this business at the end of the financial year. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale",
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"content": "The donors must be thinking we are mad people. What has happened is that the borrowed money has left the respective banks of those countries. The money is with the National Treasury. Those countries are already charging interest. However, the money is at the National Treasury because Senators and Members of the National Assembly cannot agree; and governors and Members of the National Assembly are quarrelling. Do we really want devolution to succeed? Sen. Osotsi is here, he is in this House. We were at an informal but important meeting yesterday. It brought together Senators, Members of the National Assembly, governors, Principal Secretaries and Cabinet Secretaries from a certain region of this country. When we were in that meeting, in his wisdom, Sen. Osotsi brought up this matter and was supported by the Governor of Busia County, Hon. (Dr.) Paul Otuoma. Do you know, shamelessly, the meeting almost went into disarray? Members of the National Assembly who were in attendance booed these two leaders in front of the President. We are not serious! As the Senate Majority Leader has told the country, the real reason is because Members of the National Assembly want to benefit from the contracts that will arise from these additional funds; some of them are contractors. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what do we do? If one of you is not doing any of these things, they say you are not woke, you are not up to it. If you are woke, you should be one of the people participating in those contracts, so that you look rich and live large. We are at a place where we have to speak to the soul of the nation and realize that this country will succeed or fail depending on us. The gist of this resolution if we pass it, is that the counties will now access a whooping Kshs50.5 billion; it is there. If we just pass it today, counties will access Kshs50.5 billion. Why would a Member of the National Assembly not support that money going to the county where he comes from and yet all counties are benefiting? The Senate Leader of Majority, the National Assembly Leader of Majority and the presidency, you must bring the leaders together so that we stop this nonsense. Members of Parliament are the ones delaying this because they want to do business. So, what have we done? We have created four schedules. We have made it easy, and you will see it. We want to apologize for not having tabled the report by now. We just finished a few minutes ago. In the First Schedule, we have put Kshs7.5 billion, which is the Additional Allocations that come from the national Government as a share of revenue raised nationally. I will go into specifics. Then in the Second Schedule, we have made it easy. We have brought and segregated the Kshs10.5 billion that governors and MPs are fighting over; the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF). We have created a second schedule for clarity. In the Third Schedule, we have put money that is realized from court fines that are collected at various points where we have courts in the counties. In the final schedule, we have then created a schedule showing the loans and grants. Having simplified it that way, we have taken the first important step, which we are asking this House to support this morning, namely, we have removed from the Bill The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale",
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"content": "any mention of that thing, Road Maintenance Levy Fund; it is a debate that cannot end. We have removed it completely from the Bill until the courts have made a decision. This is because, if you do anything here, it brings in the long story of sub judice and so on. So, we have put it aside completely, and then we have remained with those three schedules. So, these are the three schedules that I want to speak to for you to appreciate and pass it quickly this morning. In the First Schedule, the Kshs7.54 billion will go towards the construction of the stalled county headquarters in those five counties that you all know. The second one will go to the County Aggregated Industrial Parks (CAIPs). They are going to be undertaken in only 19 counties and this money has been enhanced by the National Treasury from Kshs2 billion to Kshs2.9 billion. Now, when you look at your schedule, your county might or might not benefit. Do not slow down the process by saying, Okay, my county has not benefited and therefore, I am not going to support it. It is because the National Treasury - and we have agreed with them as a Committee - has phased out this process because the money is not enough. It has phased out 18 counties, Phase 1, Phase 2, 18 counties and finally Phase 3, 11 counties. At the end of the phasing, everybody will have gotten the Kshs250 million meant for this. So, even if your county - like my Kakamega - is not benefiting, we still pass it. Then, of course, there is the issue of the Community Health Promoters (CHPs). It is in there with a salary of Kshs3.234 billion. The basic salary for county health workers is worth Kshs1.7 billion and the transfer of museums to these counties. The museum, under the Constitution, is supposed to have been devolved, but it was delayed. So, we are cleaning it up. In the Third Schedule, which is fines, it is up to Kshs116.092 million. We have decided to pass these fines “ shingo upande ” because it is not even clear to us. When the National Treasury just throws it at us that go and share out Kshs116 million, what is the authenticity of that figure? What tool do we have when money is being collected in Mombasa and taken to the Consolidated Fund? Now, when they declare to us: “Senate go and share it out” how do we know that the figure they declare is the actual one and that they did not collect more? It has created a window for theft of public funds and the Committee has this morning written to the Auditor-General to do an audit of these court fines because we believe that the money collected from court fines in Kenya for two financial years cannot be116 million; it surely must be more. So, we have been disturbed and we have ordered for that special audit. It will be done and we shall report to the House. The final schedule on grants and loans is the one that has the lion share of the amount of money. It is Kshs35.66 billion. I will not waste the time of the House by talking and describing all the loans; they are in the schedule you are going to see. Basically, that is where the biggest shame that the Leader of the Majority was speaking to is, that we are having money to develop the country and because of some personal interest, we are where we are. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale",
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"speaker": {
"id": 170,
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"content": "I, therefore, want to conclude in seconding this Motion by thanking the stakeholders and colleagues who enabled us to come up with this very comprehensive Report. We have tried to do a good job. In fact, today, we started at 7.00 a.m., we have just finished. We have done a good job. Where your county does not seem to be getting the best, please, just agree with us so that we can make progress. I thank all of you. With those remarks, I second."
},
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much. Hon. Senators, I will now proceed to propose the question."
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The Floor is now open for debate. Hon. Sen. Sifuna, you have the Floor."
},
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will suffer the same incapacity as the Leader of Majority. We have not had the benefit of the Report of the Committee, but Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has attempted to shed some light on what the Committee has done. First of all, allow me to comment on the question of the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF). Mr. Speaker, Sir, our Constitution has set out everybody's job. Everybody's job is clear in the Constitution that certain classifications of road are going to be done by the county government, certain classifications are going to be done by national Government. I am very proud as the Secretary General (SG) of ODM that my party leader and my party has taken a position on this question of RMLF. We are solid believers and defenders of the Constitution and we believe in devolution. My party leader's position, which is my position, is that Members of the National Assembly have no business constructing roads. If they have a problem, the problem is not with Sifuna. I take my instructions from my boss, my party leader. As a Senator of Nairobi, I have been charged to ensure that we defend devolution at every turn. Even in that matter that is before the courts, I remember the Chair of the Council of Governors, who also happens to be from my party appeared before the Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing and gave us a chronology of this fight. He indicated that they had tried to have conversations with the National Assembly, but those conversations never work. I remember when we were doing mediation on the Division of Revenue Bill, the Members of the National Assembly, in very condescending tones, were telling us that we, as the Senators, should go and tell the governors to withdraw the case in court on the RMLF. We, as the Senators, agreed with the Chair of the Council of Governors, that we want that matter to be resolved by the courts once and for all because the law is there, the Constitution is there. There is absolutely no reason we should be fighting about this. The most callous thing, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have never been a Member of the National Assembly and maybe one day, if I will be, maybe this, I do not want to use the word disease, but this attitude, may come over me. Somehow, they have dissected the populations, they know the people who belong to the national Government and the people who belong to the county governments. It does not matter what prejudice the people suffer, for as long as the National Assembly gets what it wants, then we can hold the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1545740,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"speaker": {
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"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
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"content": "entire thing I remember sitting here with those Members, I do not want to mention their names, but they know themselves. Mr. Speaker, Sir, they told us in no uncertain terms that if they do not get RMLF, we will not get Division of Revenue. I have told Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale's Committee the same thing; that, in fact, if they do not get these RMLF funds, they do not care whether CHPs are being paid. I am very happy that, as a Committee, you are able to distinguish these things, separate them and let that controversy over RMLF be resolved in the courts, in accordance with the law. It is very callous, even for the Members of the National Assembly, the 17 of them from Nairobi. I do not think that they would feel proud that CHPs, the 7,400 CHPs in Nairobi, can go without pay for all these months just because they want to continue to build roads. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want, therefore, to say that we hope that, that controversy is resolved. As people who understand the Constitution and people who understand devolution, we know that the Council of Governors and this Senate are on the right side. I do not think we are the enemies of devolution. We have stood very firm on the Floor of this House, in our committees and even when we were doing mediation on division of revenue, to make it very clear to the National Assembly that, first of all, we are not enemies of the National Assembly, we have an oath that we swore on this Constitution to defend county governments and their interests. If the Constitution says a certain role is to be executed by the devolved units, we have a responsibility to defend that position. So, when we say that it is our belief, both as a Senate, as a Senator of Nairobi, as SG of ODM, as a member of ODM, that RMLF should be fully devolved, the entire amount should go to the county governments, it is because that is what the law says. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you look at the First Schedule, you will see that, for us in Nairobi, really, we were concerned with only two issues. Number one is, of course, the issue of the road maintenance levy. We have a budget of about Kshs390 million in the supplementary budget for 2024/2025 for maintenance of roads. Those of you who have been moving around our estates in Nairobi--- I can see the Deputy Speaker looking at me because he is not very happy with the situation of the roads in Nairobi. I am sure all of you have problems. You go to places in Kilimani, Eastleigh and everywhere, our roads are in a pathetic shape. We were hoping that this impasse is resolved because it is also acknowledged that we need the resources to do these roads. Therefore, we hope that it will be resolved as soon as possible. You can see on the First Schedule, we have the Kshs224 million, which is sufficient to cover the stipend of Kshs2,500 for 7,464 CHPs for 12 months. Then, there is an amount that has been allocated there for basic salary arrears for county government health workers. When the Majority Leader was here, he spoke about these health workers always showing up at our gate here. Last week, there was such an event, just before we broke for recess. You asked me and the Senator for Meru to go and speak to them. I was very happy that we are not just paying lip service. The Majority Leader was not here. We were very proud that as a House under the leadership of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
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"content": "Speaker, specific instructions were issued to the Committee on Health to bring all those stakeholders on board to that conversation. When I was speaking that day, I was not aware, that the Committee of Health of this House, that same day, had--- I remember seeing on the news that they gave certain deadlines to the Ministry to clear arrears of salaries for these county health workers and Universal Health Coverage workers. I want to tell the Senate Majority Leader that I am happy there are things we are doing, as a House, to assuage the situation. We are not just paying lip service. On the question of court fines, I know why Nairobi City County is blank. That is because there was an agreement with the Judiciary that they should give us back our county courts. Therefore, you might not find allocations of money out of court fines for Nairobi. However, I agree with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that there needs to be greater transparency in disclosures from the National Treasury on amounts of money that are collected in terms of court fines originating out of enforcement of county legislation. If you look across the country, you will note that Nairobi City County is notorious because many people are arrested on a daily basis for violation of bylaws. There is even hue and cry in the manner in which they are treated. If you go to the city court, even today, you will find that it is full of people who are being charged with various violations. It is true that we need greater disclosures from the National Treasury on these amounts. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that we will have a view of the report in order for us to see how the other matters have been treated. I honestly believe it is unfair that we have kept counties awaiting these resources for such a long time because of a dispute amongst leaders. During the mediation on Division of Revenue Bill, we agreed on certain basic things. First, we said that there does not exist a Kenyan who belongs to the national Government and one who belongs to the county governments. Secondly, we said that if a bridge over a river collapses due to floods, the ordinary user of that bridge does not care who comes to repair it or the source of the funds that will be used to repair it. All they want is the bridge repaired. Therefore, as leaders, we should not have a situation where a standoff between the Council of Governors and the National Assembly results in such a situation. That includes the donor-funded projects. They should not stop. We cannot have them, for example, stop because of what is going on in the United States of America. This money is needed to support healthcare in our counties. With those many remarks, I support the Report of the Committee and hope there will be resolution on the remaining or pending matters to do with the Road Maintenance Levy Fund. I thank you, honourable Speaker."
}
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}