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{
"id": 1552012,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552012/?format=api",
"text_counter": 795,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I am sure that if such a process was adopted, there is no way a bill for Kshs1.3 billion for a lawyer would have passed through Nairobi City County Assembly and there is no way a county attorney would have sat down to sign an agreement that commits the Nairobi City County for Kshs1.3 billion, and as the court said, to be paid in 60 days. How is that going to happen?"
},
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"id": 1552013,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552013/?format=api",
"text_counter": 796,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This is a good Petition which has raised pertinent issues. The way forward for us is to amend the Office of the County Attorney Act, 2020, so that we deal with this matter, not just for legal fees but also all services that are contracted outside from the capacities within the counties. That way, we shall help our 47 counties."
},
{
"id": 1552014,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552014/?format=api",
"text_counter": 797,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support."
},
{
"id": 1552015,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552015/?format=api",
"text_counter": 798,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Pareno",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13180,
"legal_name": "Judith Ramaita Pareno",
"slug": "judith-ramaita-pareno"
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"content": " Thank you. Next is Sen. Osotsi."
},
{
"id": 1552016,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552016/?format=api",
"text_counter": 799,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
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"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to support this Motion. We must have a system of restraining county governments from hiring external law firms to represent them in courts. Last week, we were taken through a report by the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) that indicated that we have a serious fiduciary risk in our counties on the matter of external law firms that have charged our counties exorbitant amount of money. That is a problem because 22 counties, excluding Nairobi City County, are supposed to pay a whopping Kshs30.6 billion to law firms. Nairobi City County alone is supposed to pay Kshs21.4 billion. That is just money that is supposed to be paid to law firms. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1552017,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552017/?format=api",
"text_counter": 800,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13588,
"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
"slug": "osotsi-godfrey-otieno"
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"content": "If it was invested in infrastructure or any kind of development, it would do a lot more to the economies of our counties. I support Mr. Laban Omusundi on the fact that this matter has to be handled in some way. I disagree with the fact that we try and restrain counties seeking expert legal services outside their county attorney office. That would be against the Constitution; against the Public Procurement and Disposal Act, which provides that there must be competitive procurement where counties, for some reason, want to engage in competitive procurement. Madam Temporary Speaker, even as we say that this is a case of open violation of the law, if there is any county that is engaged in an illegal activity of paying exorbitant amounts of money to law firms, it should be handled on a case-by-case basis, because the law is there. We have the Office of the County Attorney Act that provides various provisions on how such a matter is handled. The Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act is very clear on the process of procurement of services. The Advocates Remuneration Order is very clear on what needs to be charged. If there is a law firm or county that goes outside this framework, then the law should apply to that particular county or law firm. We cannot come and say that now, because some counties are involved in irregularity, and because those who are supposed to enforce the law are not enforcing the law, we now put a restraint on this. I think that would be unconstitutional, and not the right thing to do. As a Senate we need to ensure that offices which have a responsibility to guard against misuse of funds are doing their job. I am surprised the Controller of Budget (CoB) is also crying in this report, in her submission. The CoB is the one who approves requisitions. How is she approving requisitions, which are against the law, the County Attorney Act, the Advocate's Remuneration Order and the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act? So, I think we will be over-legislating if we start now telling people that we want to amend the law to manage these things administratively. I am of the view that we let those who process these payments follow the law. If it is the finance departments in counties, the CoB or those who processes requisitions, let them follow the law. That way we will be able to deal with this problem. Whereas I support the fact that counties have high legal liabilities which are not well managed, and something has to be done about it, I disagree that we restrain counties from accessing external legal services when they genuinely need them. That would be against the law Madam Temporary Speaker, for that purpose, I commend the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee. I want to disagree with my colleague, Sen. Olekina that they did a shoddy job. I have read the report and they did a wonderful job. They made balanced recommendations. They agreed on some issues raised by the petitioner, but also gave direction on what needs to be done. Let the officers who are supposed to do their job do so. Let us not over-legislate on some of these things."
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"id": 1552018,
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"text_counter": 801,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Osotsi, when we resume this Motion, you will have a balance of 13 minutes."
},
{
"id": 1552019,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552019/?format=api",
"text_counter": 802,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1552020,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552020/?format=api",
"text_counter": 803,
"type": "heading",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "ADJOURNMENT"
},
{
"id": 1552021,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1552021/?format=api",
"text_counter": 804,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 9th April 2025, at 9.30 a.m."
}
]
}