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{
"id": 1570292,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570292/?format=api",
"text_counter": 183,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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{
"id": 1570293,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570293/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang",
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"content": "(d) the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform the functions allocated to them; (e) the fiscal capacity and efficiency of county governments; (f) developmental and other needs of counties; Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Article is clear that we need to take care of counties and ensure there is equitable development. I have just said that for the last 13 years, 11 counties have been paying salaries. We are saying that because of the opportunity that has arisen as a result of the Fourth Basis of the formula, we should speak and talk to each other. Let us canvass and reason together. The Bible is clear that when you come together and reason together, things will change. We would like to convince our colleagues from the four counties that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talked about. He listed Nairobi, Kiambu, Kakamega and Nakuru counties as getting close to Kshs15 billion each, every year. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are saying that Elgeyo-Marakwet County started with about Kshs2.7 billion. In this current financial year, we are getting Kshs4.8 billion and the functions that were transferred to Elgeyo-Marakwet County are the same functions these other counties are getting. If it is CECMs, we all have 10 or 12 CECMs. The same applies to chief officers. We also have the same number of hospitals. In this formula, we are in agreement with what the Committee has proposed on the first Kshs387.25, so that no county loses and they get what they have always gotten. We are happy and comfortable with that proposal. Then we are also asking, can we do affirmative action to ensure the 11 counties move towards Kshs6 billion? As a result of the kamukunji in the morning, the Committee proposed Kshs2 billion. We are saying that we should improve the Kshs2 billion that has been proposed as a result of the kamukunji in the morning. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can we put it up to Kshs4.5 billion although our desire is Kshs6.7 billion? Then all the counties, apart from Lamu will be at a minimum of Kshs6 billion and then Lamu moves from about Kshs2.7 billion to about Kshs5 billion. We are, therefore, asking if we can look at the affirmative action of Kshs2 billion for the 11 counties and improve it. Even if we do not go to Kshs6.7 billion, we should agree and have a middle ground, like Kshs4.7 billion. This is so that, before we share the amount that is above Kshs387 billion, each of the smaller 11 counties gets a minimum of Kshs500 million. From there, we subject the formula to anything above what we had agreed on. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Osotsi has just talked about 35 per cent. When you tell us that we are sharing using equal share of 35 per cent, that equal share of 35 per cent is not based on the entire. It is based on anything above Kshs387 million. So, it is basically either it is Kshs17 billion or Kshs30 billion, where we will have equal share of that five per cent and also population still at 45 million people. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is basically still an advantage to the bigger counties. This is something that we need to reason together because this money is not going to any one of us; it is going to our people. If you reside in Nairobi or you are"
},
{
"id": 1570294,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570294/?format=api",
"text_counter": 185,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1570295,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570295/?format=api",
"text_counter": 186,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Senator for Nairobi or Senator for Machakos, you have your people who are in Elgeyo Marakwet County, for example. They need to benefit; they need to get development. They need to have good hospitals; they need to have medicine in these particular hospitals. So, that is what we are saying. Let us reason together and have something that is agreeable and acceptable. This is the formula that will take us for the next five years. I also agree that we need to be serious. We cannot accept the Kshs405 billion that is proposed by the National Treasury and the National Assembly. We need to move to the Kshs465 billion so that when we are putting our governors to task, on accountability, at least they have some reasonable resources to do something for us. Please, let us debate. Let us be sober as brothers and sisters, to ensure that we treat all our citizens equally. Otherwise, some of us are really completely disadvantaged. This is because even when we get the oversight funds, what am I going to oversight in Elgeyo-Marakwet County? I will check on how Early Childhood and Development Education Centres (ECDEs) are being built. How much are they spending to do twin classrooms? I urge all members to sit together, reason, agree and give us affirmative action. The proposal of Kshs2 billion, that is a start. We want to begin from the Kshs2 billion. Can we improve it? Can we push it? Say Kshs4 billion or Kshs4.7 billion and then from there, we also do not have to take a lot of time talking. The biggest challenge, as the Speaker has said is that we have been conversing for the last one month. Why are we waiting? You know the Kenyan mentality, we always like the last minute. Even if you give us another time, we do not meet until the last minute again. Let us meet today, discuss, agree and then we pass the Motion and discuss other many things. This is because there are very many other pressing issues that we need to discuss as Kenyans. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you. I reserve my support for the Motion. I will support it with amendments if Elgeyo-Marakwet County at least get Kshs6 billion, so that something can be done for my people."
},
{
"id": 1570296,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570296/?format=api",
"text_counter": 187,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Edwin Sifuna."
},
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"id": 1570297,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570297/?format=api",
"text_counter": 188,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, in our journey for leadership, we were told that sometimes it is good for you to concede that there are things that are complex, even for you as a leader. You need to take time to listen to experts and people who have experiences in those fields, so that they can guide you. I must admit that ever since I came to this Floor of this House, these matters of the formula and the parameters that are being proposed by CRA and the conversations from our colleagues is one of the most difficult conversations to grasp. If you look at Article 215(4), on what qualifies you to be a member of the Commission on Revenue Allocation, which is the commission that makes these recommendations. It says: “To be qualified to be a member of the Commission under this clause (2)(a), (b) or (c), a person shall have extensive professional experience in financial and economic matters.”"
},
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"id": 1570298,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570298/?format=api",
"text_counter": 189,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1570299,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570299/?format=api",
"text_counter": 190,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I remember the very first time the CRA put out a proposal in terms of a revenue sharing formula, I took time to seek out some friends of mine who are commissioners in the CRA. First of all, the picture that they painted for our country was quite grim for me. We rely on data and statistics that are kept in the ministries, departments and agencies. However, that data is so corrupted and skewed that it is almost totally unreliable. If you start there, and knowing, for instance, that this formula that is being proposed by the committee attaches extreme significance to certain data sets, the first one being population. Now, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you and I know that when immediately you raise the question of the census of 2019, there are people who will tell you that that census itself is flawed. In fact, there is already a court decision, Sen. Mungatana can correct me if I am wrong, on the legality of the figures that were put out by Government following the census of 2019. So, if you attach 45 per cent weight to that data set, there are already problems. However, we are willing to be guided. The most heartbreaking thing is that there are professionals who sit in these ministries and government agencies who will massage numbers for data, health, agriculture and all sorts of things, to skew allocation of national resources towards their regions and even their communities. It is something that professional bodies in this country must look into."
},
{
"id": 1570300,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570300/?format=api",
"text_counter": 191,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "We have a problem with the 2019 census, we have a problem with the poverty index. How are we supposed to navigate this entire process? So, for me, what I usually do, if there is a problem with the math and the numbers, we must always fall back to what we consider the guiding principles. I have just seen breaking news now that, as expected, the National Assembly has rejected our proposal of Kshs465 billion to the counties, which is throwing us into another mediation, the fourth straight mediation since this Senate began. When we were in that last mediation, there are certain things that we agreed on. Also, there are certain positions that the political party that I belong to has taken with regards to devolution and which are supposed to be guiding my decisions in this House when it comes to devolution. The first one, we as a party and even as this House, have set the standard somewhere that it does not matter what formula you adopt. No county must lose when you compare previous year allocations. Secondly, that after the allocation, whatever formula you use, year-on-year, there must be marginal growth of the devolution basket. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, to get the obvious things, including year-on-year inflation, including growth in salaries and wages due to implementation of collective bargaining agreements--- I sit in the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) and just the other day, the Governor for Makueni appeared before us and we had one of the most illuminating conversations. You will see that because of decisions that are made by national Government, for instance, they want county governments to do county aggregation in industrial parks. You are supposed to match the money that is put by the national Government to do that project."
},
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"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1570301/?format=api",
"text_counter": 192,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}