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{
"id": 1589122,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589122/?format=api",
"text_counter": 163,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Leader or Majority in this House, I get to move. It does not necessarily mean that I believe in what the Motion is asking the House to do."
},
{
"id": 1589123,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589123/?format=api",
"text_counter": 164,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Secondly, it is also important for it to go on record that we have split the two preliminary objections as you have explained in your communication. Just for emphasis sake, we will be invited to debate two Motions. I like the emphasis because I listened to you much as I was not seated here, that should this Motion passes in the affirmative, there will be no need to even go to the second Motion. This is because it would mean these proceedings are terminated. This is a very serious matter which, I want to invite colleague Senators to sit, listen and reason with me. That is why I had to give the first disclaimer. Isiolo County is one of the 47 devolved units. When we come into this House, we do not swear to protect the interests of the specific counties that vote us, but the interest of devolution in the country of Kenya. Isiolo County being part and parcel of Kenya, has brought very serious issues to this House that require very serious perusal. I do not think there is another county one can think of that has two clerks and two Speakers. I do not think there is another Governor besides the one who is here. To reduce these matters to be purely procedural of whether there was a sitting or not, to me, is that justice will have aborted. I strongly hold the view that for us to serve justice to the people of Isiolo County--- Sometimes I agonize over the things one has to do in leadership because I explained this and I have said I am moving this Motion procedurally. As expected all Motions have to be moved in the positive; then the House either negates or affirms the proposal. It is not every other day that I get to move a Motion, but then move on to argue why it should be defeated. This is perhaps either the first or second time. I do so with a heavy heart. Mr. Speaker, Sir, while the debate on the preliminary objection was going on, I took time to also read the documents before us. I invite colleagues Senators to read the bulky bundle of documents; they contain the things that residents of Isiolo County said during the public participation. They have high hopes in this House that we will grant them justice. That they will have an opportunity to correct a decision they made on the 8th August, 2022. Whichever way, when we eventually consider these matters, they will feel that their county can work as a normal county. As it is, if we move ahead and make this decision in the affirmative and say that we confirm these preliminary objections, then we send these people back to Isiolo, what exactly are we sending them to do? What does it say of us a House? I speak like this because I have been a victim of this process. When the people of Kericho County came before this House last year in October, the case terminated at preliminary objection level. Many of those issues that were not solved at that time continue to occur even as we speak. I would not wish that the same happens to Isiolo County or any of the 47 counties. I, therefore, plead with colleagues that this is an opportunity we have been granted. I do not know what the hurry will be about. As I had said in the morning, we do not have, as a House, the procedure for threshold of a preliminary objection that reaches the level where we have to determine by way of voting, especially a preliminary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1589124,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589124/?format=api",
"text_counter": 165,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "objection that in their consideration, would render the process fatal. We need to retreat as a House and consider our procedure. From history since I came to this House, this will only be the second time that we are voting on a preliminary objection and terminating an impeachment hearing at that level, if this Motion was to pass as is. The first one was in the case for impeachment of the Governor of Kericho County. This will be the second time. I do not believe that is justice. Justice should not be that simplistic. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that there is a way in which the spirit of the Constitution does not guide us by letter on what to do, but also by spirit. That this is a House of reflection where when two entities of the same Government; the Executive and the County Assembly of Isiolo argue and present their issues before you, you sit as a neutral arbiter and observe. I do not know how Members will vote on the issue of whether to uphold impeachment or otherwise. However, at the very least, we owe the people of Isiolo County a chance to be heard. We owe them an opportunity to air their issues. We need to understand; how did we end up with two clerks in one assembly? What was the process that was followed? I have seen in the bundles of document that there is even gazettement. While the impeachment of the Governor was going on, there appears to have been a separate impeachment of the Speaker of the same county assembly as well. I do not know which assembly voted. It appears perhaps there are two assemblies as well in this county. That points that there are serious issues. Colleagues, the decision is ultimately yours. I have only one vote out of the 47 delegations that are in this House. However, as a leader in this House, I plead with you that these issues are not as light as somebody would want to determine them and say, “Do we find out--- By the way, make no mistake, colleagues. I am not asking of you to pass judgment based on the elementary issue of whether there was an impeachment process that followed the due process of law or not. Given that these issues arose at preliminary objection level, you have not had the opportunity at the time. You saw the struggle of the Counsel for the County Assembly just minutes ago. I thought I heard him right. By the way, I am not being biased. I am saying what I heard the Counsel say when he presented their issue, I thought they asked you to allow them to produce a HANSARD of the Assembly’s sittings on that day. What I heard at that time was that you had accepted. I am not challenging your decision. You have said that the time for production of evidence is over. However, if we grant them this opportunity, we will make an even more informed decisions, colleagues. This is because at that time, you will now be able to determine whether, indeed, there was a sitting on the 18th and 26th that eventually led to the impeachment of this governor when we go the full process. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not a very easy exercise. This is a moment where each Senator uses very different ways to arrive at a decision. However, much as this Motion proposes that we confirm, I ask of the House that we give justice to the people of Isiolo County. Let us listen to their issues, then eventually make a determination based on what you have seen on the evidence that has been presented before you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1589125,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589125/?format=api",
"text_counter": 166,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "When we eventually consider that earlier matter that I raised on the threshold for appeal that can be fatal to an impeachment hearing here in the Senate, perhaps we can put it in law that even if we make that determination, let us also listen to some of the issues and propose solutions. I do not believe necessarily that the end of an impeachment process should just be about removal or staying in office of a county governor. There are other administrative issues that we can address as a House."
},
{
"id": 1589126,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589126/?format=api",
"text_counter": 167,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Applause)"
},
{
"id": 1589127,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589127/?format=api",
"text_counter": 168,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "It will be possible to establish and understand many of these things that have been raised before, involving Government officials and police officers that have sworn affidavits. It will be good to understand what their reasoning is. I will, therefore, be proposing to the House after this process, that let us not handle another impeachment without considering this process that we began in October of last year and making an amendment. Even if it means amending our Standing Orders. We need to amend our Standing Order, so that an impeachment process does not terminate at preliminary objection level. It is not a good thing. I have said that today and I said it during the time of impeachment of the Governor for Kericho County. I will say it in the future because that is what I believe. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, I leave it to colleagues to reflect and consider. Today is Isiolo County. Tomorrow it may be your county. When you get an opportunity to present your issues before this House, there is a way citizens of your county will expect this House to treat matters. I have been in the House long enough to understand when colleagues begin to tell you that we have heard you and we know what we need to do. I believe in moving this Motion, I have reached that point. I can hear the consultations and I can also read what the faces are saying. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those very many remarks, I beg to move. I request the Senator for Kilifi County, Sen. (Rtd) Justice Stewarts Madzayo, to second me in this Motion and lead the House in making the right decision. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1589128,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589128/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Madzayo",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Minority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Asante mstahiki Spika. Kwanza najua tuko katika hali ya panda kwa sababu mashtaka yaliyoko mbele yetu ni mazito. Hii ni kazi mojawapo ambayo lazima Maseneta waifanye. Ni jukumu langu kuunga mkono yote aliyoyasema Kiongozi wa Walio Wengi kwamba Hoja iliyopo hapa ni ya kumng’atua gavana kutoka kwa mamlaka. Hata hivyo, hivi sasa tunajadiliana kama tutaendelea ama hatutaendelea na hii kesi kwa sababu ya yale yaliopo mbele yetu. Kwanza, ningependa kufahamisha Maseneta wenzangu kwamba mashtaka yalio mbele yetu yana uzito sana. Ikiwa yatadhihirishwa kuwa kweli, basi hatua itakayochukuliwa ni kukubaliana na ile preliminary objections iliyopo hapa ama kuikataa. Kuna uzito wa aina yake. Kwa hivyo, katika uamuzi wetu, tunafaa tupime na kuchunguza iwapo kweli kuna shida ndani ya Kaunti ya Isiolo. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1589129,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589129/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Madzayo",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Minority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Ndugu zetu wa Isiolo, ni jambo la kusikitisha kwamba tunajadili Hoja ambayo mungeelewana nyinyi wenyewe ili isifike hapa. Kisu hukata pande zote mbili. Tutajaribu tutakavyoweza kujadiliana na mwisho tutachukua hatua. Mstahiki Spika, pili, kumekuwa na sintofahamu za mikutano. Baadhi ya mawakili waliosimama mbele yetu wameeleza kuwa kumekuwa na mikutano. Zile stakabadhi zote ambazo mmetupatia hapa tuziangalie. Vile vile kuna rekodi zake. Wengine walisema kwamba kulikuwa na mikutano na wengine wanasema hakukuwa na mikutano. Hili ni jambo gumu na tutaliamua ili watu wa Kaunti ya Isiolo wapate haki yao. Nataka pia kuongezea ya kwamba, tukisimamisha kulingana na hii preliminary"
},
{
"id": 1589130,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589130/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "objection,"
},
{
"id": 1589131,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589131/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Madzayo",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Minority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "tujue ya kwamba tutakuwa tumechukua hatua ya juu sana. Vile vile ikiwa tutaachilia, tutakuwa tumechukua hatua ya juu. Hii ni kwa sababu tunajua vile mashtaka huwa kwamba Gavana aking’atuliwa kwenye mamlaka, huwa hana mbele wala nyuma kwa kuenda au kufanya chochote. Atakuwa hana haki ya kushika kazi ndani ya ofisi ama kupewa kazi yoyote. Ni jukumu letu sisi kuangalia kama mashtaka haya yana haki ya kuendelea mbele kulingana na zile stakabadhi ambazo tuko nazo au la. Naona huu ni mtihani mkubwa sana kwa Bunge la Seneti. Lakini niko na imani na hili Bunge la Seneti. Wengi wetu hapa ni mawakili, wafanyibiashara na watu waliobobea katika nyanja mbalimbali. Tuko na magavana wazamani ambao wameweza kutoka katika kaunti zao na wako hapa ndani. Wataweza kutueleza katika ujuzi waliyokuwa nao. Mimi naona hili ni jambo ambalo sisi sote lazima tulizingatie. Bw. Spika, ikiwa nitasimama hapa na kuunga mkono Kiongozi wa Walio Wengi kwa Hoja hii ni kwamba sote, nyoyo zetu tuziweke wazi, tuangalie hii kesi kikamilifu na tuwe na uwezo wa kuamua ili haki itendeke. Niko na imani vile Wakenya wote wako na imani na Bunge la Seneti. Leo ni mtihani mkubwa sana kuona ya kwamba sisi tutasimamia haki kuona kwamba kama ni udhaifu ambao umeletewa gavana, basi tunaweza kusimamisha. Pia kama ni udhaifu umeletewa watu wa Kaunti ya Isiolo, tunaweza kusimamisha. Tutatenda haki kulinganisha na vile tulivyoinua Katiba na tukasema tutalinda Katiba kama kiongozi wa nchi yetu. Asante, Bw. Spika. Naunga mkono Hoja hii."
}
]
}