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{
"id": 1589262,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589262/?format=api",
"text_counter": 303,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Seki",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to support this Motion by saying that the County Assembly of Isiolo has not demonstrated to this House that there was a sitting in the County Assembly. Some years back, I used to work as a clerk in the county councils back then before devolution. In the county councils in municipalities, councillors also respected the law. They used to work or even to deliberate in the chamber. There is a reason as to why we have the chamber. It is very difficult and it will not be proper for the county assembly to come to this House with an allegation that they had a meeting. The Assembly sat, but there was no video or audio to this House and they believe that we will agree to them. This is not right. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we may have so many things against the Executive of Isiolo through the Governor, after looking at the documentation that presented or even before. However, the procedure and the law must be upheld. I support this Motion."
},
{
"id": 1589263,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589263/?format=api",
"text_counter": 304,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Mumma, proceed."
},
{
"id": 1589264,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589264/?format=api",
"text_counter": 305,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to support the Motion, albeit reluctantly. The reason is that this preliminary objection had two counts. One is clear, in my view and the other one - the one we are discussing currently - unfortunately, we did not get the instance to interrogate all the evidence. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important for us to affirm that at a time when the rule of law seems to be a problem in Kenya, we must be that House that must stand for the rule of law. The rule of law applies to the county assembly, as it does to the county executive and as it does to the Senate. Therefore, procedures are important. It is important that county assemblies, not just of Isiolo, follow the rules and their standing orders to ensure that everything they bring and represent for their people, are actually able to be executed in accordance with the procedures. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1589265,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589265/?format=api",
"text_counter": 306,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I feel that the first count might have been prosecuted better through interrogation of evidence. Unfortunately, the lawyers for the County Assembly have made no attempt to actually respond to the issue as to whether there was a sitting or not. They simply said there was a sitting, but the little evidence there is, shows that there was no sitting. So, they have actually not properly assisted in making this decision. In my view, the real preliminary objection is the second Motion that we will go to. As the Senate, I think we also need to address ourselves to our own procedures around the preliminary objection. We had the issue of the preliminary objection in the Kericho County matter. We had the issue of a preliminary objection the last Hon. Kawira matter, but we ignored it as a Senate. So, we need now to determine whether we will work on matters preliminary objection selectively or whether we should have rules. As we have those rules, I would want to state that matters procedures are matters that involve every Senator in this House. So, we should all be involved in terms of voting on matters that are preliminary. It is because that is about procedures. So, to the extent that the county---"
},
{
"id": 1589266,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589266/?format=api",
"text_counter": 307,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Thang’wa, proceed."
},
{
"id": 1589267,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589267/?format=api",
"text_counter": 308,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Thang’wa",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As I rise to contribute to this Motion, I beg to start with a question; what defines an assembly sitting? It is the speaker, the mace, the quorum, the notice, the gazetted precincts. Mr. Speaker, I think going forward - because even the HANSARD and the voting list are part of it - this Senate should come up with a resolution that for any other impeachment to go on, the county assemblies should provide video evidence of whether that vote was taken. Why am I saying that? A few years ago, I was seated at the Gallery where I see the good people of Isiolo County seated, when the then Governor of Kiambu County was brought in this House. At that particular time, I knew there were no numbers to remove him from office, but I was over there. The Senate voted the way it voted. I swore that I wanted to come to this Senate, so that I could do the right thing. It is because the strength of justice is not seen in how we treat innocent people, but in how you handle the guilty ones. So, we have to follow the processes, so that we make sure that even those that are brought here, go through due process. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this begs the question; if we were to allow the full hearing, that means we will listen to whether the County Assembly of Isiolo sat, then we will have the witnesses and they will be cross-examined. Then, instead of voting on that particular issue, will be told; “Wait! Let us now go to ground one, two and three.” What if, after we go all through these grounds, we realise they never sat? So, why are we taking the governor through the grounds, yet probably, the County Assembly never sat? I think we should also come up with a proper procedure as the Senate, that before we even think of listening to the grounds, we are certain whether for sure, the county sat. We had the cases of Machakos where I think there were two clerks. We had the case of Nyamira, which had two clerks, two speakers and two assemblies. So, we have seen we have rogue assemblies somehow. If we do not cure that now, we might never be able to cure this in future. Probably, we may come here as governors also. We want the procedures to be followed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1589268,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589268/?format=api",
"text_counter": 309,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Thang’wa",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I stand here to support the Motion, so that the Isiolo MCAs can now go, look at it, bring it here, with the procedure and everything, and we will listen to them."
},
{
"id": 1589269,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589269/?format=api",
"text_counter": 310,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Kavindu, proceed."
},
{
"id": 1589270,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589270/?format=api",
"text_counter": 311,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kavindu Muthama",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Before I contribute, I want to correct the Senator for Kiambu, that Machakos did not have two clerks at any time. Maybe you are referring to another county in Ukambani, but not Machakos. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to say very clearly that impeachment was meant to be a tool to bring good governance to counties. If we allow county assemblies to come up with issues without proper process, bring them to this Senate and we contribute to them, I do not think we will be doing justice to the counties and yet we, the Senators, are defenders of devolution. I know there are issues in Isiolo County, but it is yet to be determined whether they are issues for impeachment. Before that is determined, we want to know if due process was followed. Listening to the County Assembly lawyers, they did not clarify completely to us that there was any sitting on the 18th of June and the 26th of June. According to how they represented themselves, there was no sitting at the County Assembly. So, I support this Motion and I say that we cannot move to the next stage because there was no sitting. We have to follow due process to the letter as we impeach the governors. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir."
},
{
"id": 1589271,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1589271/?format=api",
"text_counter": 312,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Kinyua, you may proceed."
}
]
}