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{
"id": 1592102,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592102/?format=api",
"text_counter": 459,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": "county government does not have money at all. The county government without money will go to a bank and borrow money that belongs to another county government yet it is still government money. We need to have a fiscal consolidation at another level to save us from always paying a lot of money and stop our cycle of borrowing. Unless we are careful, we will continue to borrow that way and we will not move this country forward. I want to thank the Committee for a job-well-done. Hon. Shurie is doing a good job. If I were the boss, I would have given him something. I will do that next time. This country must move forward without debt. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1592103,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592103/?format=api",
"text_counter": 460,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Deputy Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Hon. Makali Mulu, the Member for Kitui Central."
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{
"id": 1592104,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592104/?format=api",
"text_counter": 461,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kitui Central, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I take this opportunity to thank my Chairman. I am two months old out of that Committee. I must appreciate the good work they have done. I also want to thank the Deputy Leader of Majority Party for being candid. That is what Kenyans expect from all of us as Members of Parliament – telling the country the truth. The national debt as of 10th March 2025, is Ksh11.6 trillion. Out of that, you find that over the years, we have been having more external debt than domestic debt. Now the ratio seems to have changed. We are now doing 46 per cent external debt and 54 per cent domestic debt, which means we are borrowing more domestically. If you look at the report currently, the proposed debt ratios, what we call debt mix, is at 2 per cent external, 68 per cent domestic. That means we rely more on domestic debt as opposed to external debt. The disadvantage with that is that domestic debt is always more expensive and has a shorter repayment period. A shorter repayment period means an increase in interest paid, thus the share of domestic interest payment will be higher. If we want to manage our debt properly, these are some of the things we must get right. Firstly, we have previously discussed everything contained in this Report. An example is the issue of commitment fee. In the Financial Year that we are implementing, from 1st July to date, we have paid commitment fees amounting to about Ksh770 million. We need to do something. That is why I agree with the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Mbadi has been one of us for many years. We have been on these benches together, saying these things. He is now the man holding the steering wheel, but things are not changing. I want to urge him that things can change because if they do not change, we will have a problem. Second, is the issue of counterpart funding. Why get a loan if you do not have your local share of the loan, and continue paying the commitment fee? This is just poor financial management. Thirdly, the elephant in the room is the ‘animal’ called securitization. I thank the Chairman for having picked out this one. The government is now able to get some money in advance, and the security is the money we expect to collect. For instance, we are collecting a Fuel Levy of Ksh7 per litre. On the basis that money will always flow in, the government can take a lump sum and then the payment will come from that monthly Fuel Levy. We have used that money to pay about 40 per cent to all the contractors for them to go back to work. It sounds excellent but as someone who appreciates these financial issues, the challenge we have with that is… I can see my time is…"
},
{
"id": 1592105,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592105/?format=api",
"text_counter": 462,
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"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Owen Baya spoke of the record)"
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{
"id": 1592106,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592106/?format=api",
"text_counter": 463,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Deputy Speake",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "r: I give you extra three minutes."
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{
"id": 1592107,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592107/?format=api",
"text_counter": 464,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kitui Central, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu",
"speaker": null,
"content": " The challenge with that is that you are tying your cash flow advance for repayments. What happens if, by bad luck, this House decides The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1592108,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592108/?format=api",
"text_counter": 465,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kitui Central, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu",
"speaker": null,
"content": "to remove the Ksh7 Fuel Levy in the next Budget? What happens to the repayments? They will be stuck. They will not be able to repay. This is an area where we need to move cautiously. Additionally, in two years’ time, we will be having elections. This is very critical. Elections are just elections. They can go either way. Assuming we get another government and it decides it is not going to charge the Ksh7 Fuel Levy, or it is not going to continue with the fuel Levy Fund? Basically, this will mean that the incoming government will have a challenge paying this money. We should be worried. Our hands are tied in terms of cash flow. The so- called ‘fiscal consolidation’ as we move to the future will just become a story. It will never be a reality. If we want to help this country, it is high time to joined hands with the National Treasury to end some of these issues. The Deputy Leader of the Majority Party has talked about having an STA. That is the most important account that we need in this country. Why can we not tell"
},
{
"id": 1592109,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592109/?format=api",
"text_counter": 466,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Waziri"
},
{
"id": 1592110,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592110/?format=api",
"text_counter": 467,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kitui Central, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mbadi that unless you have it operational by 1st July, we are not going to discuss anything coming from the Treasury? This will help this country. As the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party has said, we have government money lying all over the in commercial banks. That is the money we borrow through buying of Treasury Bills and Treasury Bonds. The government is using the money to buy their bonds and at the end of the day, they are paying interest. It makes all of us look very bad. We need to help the National Treasury so that we get some of these things right for the sake of our country. Hon. Members, I want to share with you some experience. About two weeks ago, we had a serious conference on debt transparency and aligning legal frameworks with good practice. In the meeting, we had the former Finance Minister from Ghana. You are all aware that Ghana has restructured its public debt. They told us in very clear terms that Kenyans should pray to God to never go through a debt restructuring since it is a very bad experience. As Kenyans, that is where we are heading. If it is possible, the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party should ensure that we work towards avoiding public debt restructuring as a country if we want to help Kenyans. Colleagues, this will be good for our future generations. There are things we must do in the public interest and put our political interests aside. By doing that, we will be helping ourselves, our children and our future generations. When they come to this country, they will acknowledge that the 13th Parliament set the right foundation for the financial management of this country. If we go that direction, we will help this country. I see the Leader of the Majority Party is in now. Leader of the Majority Party, please; allow me to address you."
},
{
"id": 1592111,
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"text_counter": 468,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah spoke of the record)"
}
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