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{
"id": 1613802,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613802/?format=api",
"text_counter": 221,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Why is Sen. Wambua restless? Could it be because the people of Kitui welcomed me so well this morning?"
},
{
"id": 1613803,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613803/?format=api",
"text_counter": 222,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Cheruiyot, do you want to sit down? Sen. Wambua, quickly, pass the information."
},
{
"id": 1613804,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613804/?format=api",
"text_counter": 223,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wambua",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I would have wanted to let the Majority Leader to just get away with this, but for a second time, he has said he was in Kitui. The tradition in this House and he is the originator of that tradition is, we do not go to Senators’ counties without first informing them and secondly, without us accompanying them. Is he breaking a tradition that he set? If he had gone with me, definitely, he would have been served some ndengu. H went and I do not know whom he went with or what he was doing in Kitui without my presence. Can he tell us why he sneaked into Kitui?"
},
{
"id": 1613805,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613805/?format=api",
"text_counter": 224,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Wambua, the Speaker is constrained to rule on customs that are not in the Standing Orders, but Sen. Cheruiyot has heard. I hope behind the tent, he will do what is necessary."
},
{
"id": 1613806,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613806/?format=api",
"text_counter": 225,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Madam Speaker, for protecting me once again this afternoon, but I had a very good time in Kitui. That is all I wish to say at this point. Madam Temporary Speaker, I will speak to the amendment being canvassed by our colleagues at the end of my conversation, but I first want to focus on the importance of the exercise that we are doing. It should never be lost on us that it is without debate in our country that devolution is the greatest gift the people of Kenya have ever bequeathed themselves after Independence. In the same Constitution of Kenya, 2010, the Senate was granted the powers to protect and ensure that we defend counties and their interests. That is a correct wording as per the Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, every business that we transact in this House should always be anchored on that founding philosophy of the House of the Senators by Article The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613807,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613807/?format=api",
"text_counter": 226,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "96 to appreciate and to know that everything that we do fosters devolution and ensures that it succeeds. The second thing that I would wish Senators to note and perhaps to the pleasing of Sen. Osotsi, Sen. Kisang’, Sen. Omogeni and my colleagues, it is not possible for devolution as a whole to succeed in certain corners of a country while failing in others. This has nothing to do with the people that you vote as a county governor. It is about how strong we entrench devolution and the amount of resources that we send to our counties. It is foolhardy to imagine that it is possible for one county to thrive while the rest is actually faltering. Many of the services that are provided by our counties, for example, are so basic that on many occasions they are shared across counties. Think about health, for example. Many times, Sen. Omogeni knows this. When I go to Kapkatet Hospital in Bureti sub-county, my county, nearly half, if not 40 per cent of the people that I meet are from Nyamira County. The others are from Bomet County and another 30 per cent from Kericho County. It is not possible to believe that when you disadvantage other counties that your own county will thrive. We should always try to seek and ensure that we make all our 47 devolved units successful. It then becomes even a case study for the others to challenge one another and to know what exactly is happening and what is it that one county is doing better than the other. I have my own mini-devolution conference in my county tomorrow. We will be taking stock of 12 years of devolution and seeing what it is that has worked and where we, as a county, have got it wrong with a view to making things better in the next 12 years. That is part of our responsibility and duty that we do as counties or leaders from those counties. We need to ensure that we succeed in granting hope to the citizens, ensuring that given an opportunity, another chance, that they will still make the decision that they made in August of 2010 to ensure that we decentralize power in this country. That should always be at the top of our mind, colleagues, that we ask ourselves, should Kenyans be granted an opportunity to vote for the 2010 Constitution as is, what is it that will make it back to the Constitution and what is it that they will definitely say, “remove this one. This was a wrong decision?” Madam Temporary Speaker, we keep up with the tradition of setting a baseline. Sen. Omogeni and colleagues that were here last term will recall that this is a tradition that we brought to the third formula. It was not there in the first, it was not there in the second. At the first and the second formula, we had absolutely no baseline. We only divided the resources from zero, moving all the way to the funds that were being devolved. We ensured the division and the weights were applied equally on the full amount of resource that was being devolved. However, at the Third-Generation Formula, this thinking of having a baseline arose. It was quite ingenious of us because you recall that there are instances where we have either stagnated or moved back in terms of the resources that we are devolving to our counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613808,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613808/?format=api",
"text_counter": 227,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "It is this proposal, ensuring that you have it in the formula, that at the very minimum should anything happen, it is not possible to devolve less than Kshs387 billion to the counties plus all these other billions that are over and above it. I am a firm supporter of the baseline allocation ratio because it ensures that counties maintain what they had already secured and the basis upon which they had done their budgets for the previous fiscal year. For example, as we are now doing this the month of June, counties are also working on their budgets. County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) are just about to read the budgets before the county assemblies and finalising on all the proposals. The plans and the question at the moment is what is likely to come out of this discussion and mediation exercise between the Senate and the National Assembly. To guide them, at the very least, they are certain that given the formula that the Senate is discussing and the use of this baseline ratio, they know there is a particular amount below which they cannot get. I am a firm believer in ensuring that we should not move below what we had already agreed upon. Even those of us that will be in this House, when the Senate considers the fifth and the sixth and the seventh generation formula, I hope will keep with this tradition. When they read the notes and the HANSARD of the thoughts that went into the deliberation of the second, third or the fourth formula, they will appreciate the wisdom of colleagues that came ahead of them and ensure that we always look at what had already been agreed on. I applaud the Committee's decision to keep up with the tradition that was set in this House in the Third- Generation Formula of ensuring that we have the baseline allocation ratio as part and parcel of our formula. I move to the population index and we are using the 2019 population survey. I think I heard somebody, I do not know if it was Sen. Sifuna yesterday wondering what is going to happen to parts of that exercise that have been challenged in our courts of law. I guess that is for others to determine and other competent institutions, but we know for a fact that affected a very small part of the country. Not to say that the citizens that live in that corner of the country are less important. I appreciate that they continue to weight population index at 45 per cent. It is a fairly huge figure, but we must appreciate that at the end of it all, when all is said and done, these services are being sent out to people. Therefore, any county that is densely populated, such as the one that I come from, should not be disadvantaged. We just came from the county of Sen. Moses Kajwang’ for Madaraka Day. With all the energy that they have and all these colleagues that come from densely populated counties, should not be disadvantaged. All these so-called devolved services are a factor of human beings. If you have more people in your county, then you need a higher percentage of resources to ensure that, for example, there is delivery of drugs in hospitals, pay health workers and employ agricultural extension officers. Madam Temporary Speaker, I am a firm believer in the weight of population being maintained as the highest. It has been granted the highest weight at 45 per cent. I know there are connotations here and there. Last time when we did the Third-Generation Formula there was a conversation about counties that are least populated. In fact, people, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613809,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613809/?format=api",
"text_counter": 228,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "including leaders in this House at that particular time, made certain remarks that were considered offensive to counties with a smaller population. I still insist that in the same way that our colleagues from smaller sized counties are asking us to bear with them, they should also bear with us with regards to the weight allocated to population as a factor of the formula. It is extremely important because services are actually a factor of the number of human beings that live in a particular county. Number three, is poverty index. This is where I disagree with our Committee. I said it when we had our amendment here, that part of the reason we want our counties to succeed is that we hope that they will learn from the national Government. They should copy the things that have succeeded there and also learn from the mistakes of the last 60 years with regards to how we have managed the economy and this country and all the five administrations that have run this country. Poverty index is important because it addresses the issue of marginalisation and counties that have been left behind. However, let us face it. Fifteen years into the devolution cycle, we should begin to motivate counties actually to be inculcators or hubs of growth. Counties where we notice good fiscal effort that eventually translates to growth, should have a percentage of it as a reward. Madam Temporary Speaker, when we had our breakfast meeting with CRA last time, Sen. Moses Kajwang’, if you recall, it was a big debate that we were rewarding bad habits. They argued and said it feeds through disenfranchisement and decisions that have been made over the last 50 years and we said, okay that was fine. If you want to give the weight of poverty index at 18 per cent, at least shave two or three per cent to motivate counties that are doing better, so that they earn from a kitty knowing that if your fiscal prudence is worth being emulated by other counties, you should be rewarded. Fiscal discipline is the number one threat of county governments and the success of devolution. So long as a county government continues to spend more than half of its resources for paying salaries, they will continue to score high on the poverty index. Madam Temporary Speaker, then you want us to weight them and grant them this amount of resources? I disagree with the Committee. I had hoped that Sen. Omogeni and our colleagues that are moving us to make an amendment, that as you urge us to consider you, that at least you will factor the decisions and thoughts of yesterday’s Kamukunji, where colleagues were saying that we should find a way of rewarding good governance practice in this formula. The same way the CRA had proposed to us in the Third-Generation Formula, fiscal effort was being rewarded. Counties that get good certification out of audit reports were being rewarded because we are encouraging counties to grow. Counties that meet targets on own-source revenue, budget and maintain a balanced budget, observe their pending bills and ensure that they are within reach and managed in levels that are prudent, these are the counties that in the next five to 10 years, we will begin to see growth. The county gross domestic product of those counties will begin to edge over others. It will be possible for the people of Siaya to see the difference with the people of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613810,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613810/?format=api",
"text_counter": 229,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Homa Bay and for the people of Bomet to see the difference with the people of Kericho based on the decisions they have made in the last 20 years or so. If we do not motivate our counties and set the criteria upon which we reward county governments that perform better, then we are being unfair to the country. That is a mistake that was made. We are actually in a World Bank programme. Many times, we come to this House--- Sen. Omogeni is pleading to inform me. I do not mind, Madam Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1613811,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613811/?format=api",
"text_counter": 230,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Senator, well you need to speak to ask for the opportunity and then you are granted, is it not?"
}
]
}