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{
"id": 1613812,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613812/?format=api",
"text_counter": 231,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Sorry, I just wanted to inform the Majority Leader about the point he is making on rewarding counties that experience fiscal responsibility. In India, 2.5 percent is reserved for that effort. So, I just wanted him to note that there is a jurisdiction called India that gives a lot of regard to fiscal responsibility. They actually call it fiscal responsibility and tax effort, meaning own source revenue. So, I fully agree with you."
},
{
"id": 1613813,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613813/?format=api",
"text_counter": 232,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " That is very good information, which you need to use, Sen. Omogeni, because you are the owner of this amended Motion. Shave this poverty index from the proposed, what is it, what is the percentage? I am trying to - 12 percent - Let us have it at nine or 10 per cent. The CRA had proposed three percent to us. We did not agree with them last time, but I believe, colleagues, that we must reward good behavior in our counties. I want to plead with each one of you that let us find a percentage and we could even borrow from the guidance of CRA from the Third-Generation Formula of ensuring that our counties and county governments that manage their resources better are encouraged. I was speaking to the point that we are in a World Bank and all these IMF programmes, they are telling us, you know, fiscal consolidation. They are telling us reduce corruption. That is why they want us to pass the Conflict of Interest Bill. They are saying, consolidate this or the other. However, at the heart of that conversation, the most important thing that they keep on informing us is to keep our eyes on growth. If growth becomes your primary target, it answers all these challenges. People begin to complain less about being pressed by the tax burden. If you are able to show demonstrable growth, then people appreciate and know that which you are doing. With those many remarks, Madam Temporary Speaker, like I have said to my colleagues from the 11 counties, persuade us better. However, on count of rewarding good behavior by our counties, the place to pinch from is on the poverty index. I appreciate, Madam Temporary Speaker. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 1613814,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613814/?format=api",
"text_counter": 233,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, and for the Senators who will be speaking, remember we are discussing the amendment Motion."
},
{
"id": 1613815,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613815/?format=api",
"text_counter": 234,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I spoke to the main Motion and I am glad to speak to the amended Motion. Let me start with the good news. Kenyans and the residents of the 11 counties should know that the 11 Senators coming from these 11 counties have so far convinced the Committee on Finance and Budget and this House to ring-fence Kshs2 billion towards their counties to be shared equally. Sen. Osotsi, you must tell the people of Vihiga that the first Kshs2 billion that was ring-fenced was as a result of your lobbying. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613816,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613816/?format=api",
"text_counter": 235,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Sen. Mwaruma, you must tell the people of Taita Taveta that you got them Kshs2 billion more to be shared out equally amongst the 11 counties. On that, I must congratulate the 11 because what brought them together were not geographical features or political commonalities, but the desire for their people to get more resources. To that extent, I want to congratulate the 11 led by Sen. Omogeni for bringing so far close to Kshs200 million to Nyamira because the original Kshs2 billion that was ring-fenced in the original report by the Committee, if it shared out equally, it will translate to almost Kshs200 million. A sum of Kshs181 milliion, which is not small money is capable of building probably 90 ECDE classrooms. If you make them ECDE centres, you can have as many as 50 ECDE centres. That is not small money. The voters, the people in these 11 counties, must know that their Senators are here. They are robustly working hard to ensure that they get more resources. There is a little bit of a problem in the proposed amendment. Remember Bob Marley said, give them a yard, they take a mile. We have given them Kshs2 billion. They want Kshs4.46 billion. We have given them a yard, let them not take a mile. However, this conversation would have been fit, proper and very appropriate if we knew how much money was available for distribution. Right now, we are speculating. We say Kshs465 billion. The National Assembly said 405 billion. The political class is Kshs450 billion. Governors were in State House, all of them, including those who failed to appear before committees. Some of them said they were sick and we saw them at State House. We shall deal with them. We shall find them. We shall use images of State House to put them in their place. Indeed, they were at State House. They discussed a lot of things. When you get information, the President was telling them about the limited fiscal space. The President was doing a soft launch on Kshs405 billion. Madam Temporary Speaker, we will be here fighting as a Senate for Kshs450 billion, but our principal customers, who are the governors, have already been softened to accept Kshs405 billion. This is a House where no one can take me to court for what I say here. The argument is as follows. You see, we in the broad-based wing of ODM are saying Kshs450 billion, nothing less and so, the calculation is simple. A sum of Kshs405 billion and then increase conditional grants to Kshs45 billion. You have Kshs450 billion. My deputy party leader will not reject that one because we said Kshs450 billion to counties, it can go as equitable share, it can go as conditional grants. Ladies and gentlemen, this debate, if this formula does not sit on the critical path of Dollar, I want to encourage the leadership and the 11 Senators, the gallant 11 and the Committee on Finance and Budget, let us shelve this debate. We see how much money we have. Then we have these clever arguments when we know what is on the table. If we have Kshs405 billion on the table, then Kshs4.46 billion is taking a mile from a yard. If we had Kshs450 billion, then we do not need to ring-fence because automatically all of us are going to benefit. It would be like a rising tide that lifts all boats. Everyone is going to get more than Kshs6 billion. I believe this is a premature debate. If we are going to commit ourselves today, then even we from the other 36 counties will be asked why we were not as gluttonous as Sen. Mwaruma, why we did not fight for our counties to get more. However, for our counties to get more, it means other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613817,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613817/?format=api",
"text_counter": 236,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "counties are getting less. That is not the concept of equity that this House is out to advance. Madam Temporary Speaker, now that the debate is with us, and I have said it would have been neater to first conclude. allow me to say the following. As I have said, it would have been neater to first conclude the Division of Revenue Allocation Act (DORA). The money that goes to counties is not just the equitable share that we approve through DORA; we also have the additional allocations. As a House, we must fight for the realisation of the constitutional rights and entitlements of local communities and counties, such as Kwale and Taita Taveta. Kwale County was supposed to receive approximately Kshs1.7 billion or maybe Kshs1.2 billion in mineral royalties. Every Kenyan is aware that Base Titanium has been extracting titanium from Kwale and exporting it to China, other markets, or Australia, wherever it may be. However, Kwale has never received a single cent from these mineral royalties. Taita Taveta has a lot of critical minerals in the soil. We should be pushing for realisation of that revenue rather than fighting over whether to ring-fence Kshs2 billion or Kshs4 billion. We should also be looking at own-source revenue. One of my best counties in terms of fiscal responsibility is a county represented by Sen. Kinyua. We have seen some good success stories from Laikipia County. I hope they will be sustainable. I hope when Sen. Kinyua takes over, he will sustain the momentum that past governors have put in place. Laikipia County has an own-source revenue of Kshs1 billion and they are calling themselves a small county. Why are you calling yourself a small county if you can generate Kshs1 billion in own-source revenue a year? The same applies to the mighty Homa Bay County. Why should we argue that these counties need Kshs6 billion when Laikipia County already has Kshs6 billion? One of the most creative proposals brought to this House was the infrastructure bond from Laikipia County. They had identified the projects they wanted to undertake, determined their costs and knew how they are going to finance it based on their own-source revenue of about Kshs1 billion. With this foundation, they could project forward, anticipating that within four or five years, they could access the markets to borrow Kshs5 billion or Kshs10 billion, fully aware of how they would repay it. These are the avenues we should be encouraging counties to pursue. I feel very pained on behalf of Sen. Omogeni. Already he has convinced us to ring-fence Kshs2 billion. Already Kshs187 million is going to Nyamira County, regardless of whether they have two or three assemblies. Whether the governor has a degree or not, he has already convinced us. Whether the governor is doing a good job or not, already he has convinced us. Sen. Omogeni, I would be very hesitant to give you a further Kshs200 million for it to be spent by two assemblies, some sitting under a tree and another one sitting in somebody's residence. I will not accept."
},
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"id": 1613818,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613818/?format=api",
"text_counter": 237,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir."
},
{
"id": 1613819,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613819/?format=api",
"text_counter": 238,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Senate Majority Leader, what is your point of order? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613820,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613820/?format=api",
"text_counter": 239,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Madam Temporary Speaker, Nyamira is my neighboring county, just like Homa Bay; we share a border. Therefore, allow me to speak on their behalf when their Senator is in a difficult position, retorting Sen. Kajwang’ and, as a result, moving further away from his amendment while defending the rights of the people of Nyamira County. Is it in order for my good friend, Sen. M. Kajwang’, to disparage the entire people of Nyamira County based on the conduct of some of their leaders? We have witnessed similar issues in this House, including from Homa Bay County. They once had a governor who, when required to appear before the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC), would put on spectacles and claim he could not see the figures clearly. Despite this, we never denied Homa Bay County its funds. Therefore, I urge Sen. M. Kajwang’ to pursue his argument without disparaging an entire county. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1613821,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613821/?format=api",
"text_counter": 240,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, do you want to retreat a little on the comments you have made?"
}
]
}