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{
"id": 1613822,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613822/?format=api",
"text_counter": 241,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, that Motion was before the House just three weeks ago. It was brought by the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations, which is a Committee of the House. Sen. Omogeni, again moved an amendment to that Motion. However, the point is that there are bad habits, and I agree with the Senate Majority Leader that---"
},
{
"id": 1613823,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613823/?format=api",
"text_counter": 242,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, what you are explaining to the Senate Majority Leader is that Sen. M. Kajwang’ did not speak about the entire people of Nyamira County. He spoke about two assemblies, and that is factual."
},
{
"id": 1613824,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613824/?format=api",
"text_counter": 243,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Yes. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The interest of counties and their governments is sometimes different from the interest of their governors or their leaders. Our role as a Senate is to defend the interests of counties and their governments rather than the governors. Regarding the fiscal responsibility measure, I would be happy to approve this amendment if I was convinced that there was a way we were going to reward good behaviour and punish errant behaviour. If we do not have that option in this formula, I would be very hesitant to give much more money to some of the counties here. Isiolo County is on the schedule of the 11 counties. I said in the substantive debate that Isiolo is not a small county. Isiolo is designated as a capital and the centre of gravity of Kenya. You can be a big county, but with a small leadership mindset at the top. That is what makes you look like a small county. I would be very hesitant if a county like Laikipia, which I have described to be very fiscally responsible, was to receive Kshs400 million more out of this formula, especially if the irresponsible ones will be getting the same amount, unless we had a formula for differentiation. We must increase the pie. If it is Kshs405 billion, then we will be confirming to those who think that the Senate is also playing small. We have the opportunity, instruments and duty to ensure that we support devolution. That support is through increasing the allocation to our counties. When we talk of Kshs450 billion, we are not saying go and take the budget from State House, the Deputy President's employment programmes or from the national The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613825,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613825/?format=api",
"text_counter": 244,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "security. We are talking about functions that have already been assigned to counties that continue to be held at the centre. These functions are clear and they include roads, water, health, agriculture, libraries, museums, et cetera . If you cost them, then the Kshs500 billion that governor's were asking for would be the number. However, the governors were having dinner at State House last night, and they have already been softened to Kshs405 billion. So, let us revisit this conversation once that matter is concluded. The danger we face is that today, there is a caucus of 11 counties. I do not know what unites them, as they are neither neighbors nor culturally coherent. They are not small, as some of them have very serious leaders in this House. I believe what unites them is their hunger for more funding for their people, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is why you came to Nairobi; to fight for your people. However, the risk is this. Tomorrow, Sen. Eddy Oketch and I will move an amendment as a caucus of blue economy counties, and say that let us ring-fence a further Kshs4 billion to the 11 listed blue economy counties. Secondly, the third day, counties with a high HIV prevalence and burden, which was softened through USAID that has fled. We could bring a legitimate argument on the floor of this House and say that there are five or six counties that have high HIV prevalence and the data is there. We could request that we ring-fence Kshs5 billion to help us put in place interventions following the flight of USAID. Next, you will have another caucus of counties affected by desert locust. They will tell you that the desert locust is coming this year and so the Senate should ring-fence another Kshs2 billion. The additional 17 billion will have been ring-fenced to special caucuses and special lobbies, and the Senator for Kakamega County will have nothing to say unless he is going to build a caucus of bullfighters or maize consumers. They could also say they also need another Kshs4 billion to be ring-fenced for them. Even though this is a legitimate route to legislation, it is a dangerous one because it is no longer law making, but deal making. I would support the original Kshs2 billion ring-fence."
},
{
"id": 1613826,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613826/?format=api",
"text_counter": 245,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, do you want to be informed by Sen. Omugeni?"
},
{
"id": 1613827,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613827/?format=api",
"text_counter": 246,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Yes, I would like to be informed."
},
{
"id": 1613828,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613828/?format=api",
"text_counter": 247,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I just wanted to inform my good friend, Senator for Homa Bay County, that the reason we have put Kshs387 billion as the baseline is to save eight counties that were going to lose money, a county that is at the risk of losing Kshs2.2 billion if we go by the formula of the Committee without using Kshs387 billion as the baseline. So, affirmative action has already been incorporated in the formula by putting Kshs387 billion as a baseline in order to save eight counties from losing and Nyamira is not one of them, but we are accepting that baseline collectively as 47 Senators to protect the eight. The 11 caucus is also another affirmative action to protect the ones which are at the bottom because the eight that are being protected are at the top. I just wanted to inform the Senator that the affirmative formula is already in this particular formula."
},
{
"id": 1613829,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613829/?format=api",
"text_counter": 248,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I hear the Senator. I think I am going to file a further amendment that, of the ring-fenced Kshs4.46 billion, we amend it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1613830,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613830/?format=api",
"text_counter": 249,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "to include 12 counties, including Homa Bay County. Therefore I will be very happy to report to my people that I have delivered some Kshs400 million. Let me conclude by saying this, if we are honest with each other, the Third- Generation Formula, which split this House right in the middle held harmless the so- called small counties because we froze Kshs158 billion and said that Kshs158 billion was not going to be subjected to the new formula. The proposed Fourth-Generation Formula, the Sen. Roba formula, has held harmless the so-called small counties by freezing or ring-fencing Kshs387 billion. The group of 11, the G11, has further convinced the House to hold harmless by ring-fencing Kshs2 billion. That is sufficient. If we had Kshs450 billion, we would all be able to go home smiling that we have increased the allocations to our counties. Let us also think about not just the conditional grants, let us think about the Equalization Fund and look at how it is distributed amongst these counties. Some of these counties have had historical cases of marginalization and so you might find that there is a bigger allocation of the Equalization Fund to mitigate some of these shortfalls that we are talking about. Let us also ask ourselves the effect on per capita allocation. If we do this mathematics, this BODMAS equation that we are trying to do here, you will end up with a high per capita allocation in Isiolo compared to Kakamega then the Senator for Kakamega or Homa Bay will have to struggle to explain to the people who elected him why Isiolo or Tharaka Nithi has the highest per capita allocation and not the counties that we represent. We are here for purposes of equity. Further, the proponents of this amendment need to give us simulations because this is not something you just talk about hivi hivi . You need to tell me that if you move from Kshs2 billion to Kshs4.46 billion, therefore, Homa Bay is losing Kshs100 million or is gaining or is holding constant. Without that visibility, it would be extremely dangerous for any Senator in this House, outside the group of 11, to support this amendment when you do not know what impact it is going to have on your county. I finalize by urging the leadership of the Committee on Finance and Budget that if you put this matter to the vote this afternoon or today, perhaps it will be lost and perhaps it was a good idea, but let us first understand how much money we have at our disposal. To the governors, you cannot use this Senate only when it is convenient. We have governors who refuse to appear before our committees, but when they hear that there is a pie being shared somewhere, all of a sudden even the ones who are sick find their way to State House. Shame on those governors who escape accountability, but want to hang on the Senate or want to criticize the Senate when it comes to allocation of resources. It is the duty of Senate and the National Assembly to determine the allocation of revenue between national and county governments---"
},
{
"id": 1613831,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613831/?format=api",
"text_counter": 250,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Give him one minute to finish what he was saying."
}
]
}