Order, hon. Members! I have the following Communication to make. On Thursday, April 30, 2009, the Member for Gem, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo sought the guidance of the Chair on whether the Member for Kisumu Town West, the hon. Olago Aluoch was properly dressed in accordance with our rules. The said Member for Kisumu Town West was dressed in regalia commonly donned by officers of the court while attending court proceedings or when professionally engaged elsewhere in the practice of their trade. I undertook to give a ruling on this matter, which I am now pleased to deliver. Hon. Waititu, you may walk in. We will take a little while.
Hon. Members, having listened to the debate that ensued on the matter, I deciphered or isolated the following issues as requiring my consideration:- (i) Whether or not it is proper for a Member to enter this Chamber while dressed in a professional outfit, inclusive of courtroom regalia; (ii) What is the acceptable dress code for the Chamber; (iii) Whether hon. Olago Aluoch was properly dressed during that particular Sitting; and more remotely, (iv) What is our national dress. Hon. Members, before I deliver my communication on this matter, let me inform the House on the current requirements and practices obtaining in our National Assembly and even in other Parliaments. For the case of our National Assembly, the manner of dressing is provided for in Chapter 1 Rule 5 of the Speakerâs Rules which provides, and I quote:- âMembers are required not to enter the Chamber, Lounge or Dining Room without being properly dressed.â
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to give notice of the following Motion: - THAT, this House extends the mandate of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the activities of unlawful organizations by three months to enable the Committee conclude its activities as per the terms of reference and as established.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Public Service the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister explain the fate of all former employees of the disbanded Electoral Commission of Kenya (ECK) and provide a list showing the respective amounts paid as terminal dues to those that were retired? (b) Could he table the list detailing the respective grades and salaries of all the redeployed employees (at ECK and at their current stations respectively)? (c) Could he outline the steps being taken to ensure that the redeployed employees are not placed at grades and salaries that are disadvantageous to them?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Question was asked last week but it was deferred to today so that Members could be able to interrogate the Minister.
Mr. Minister, are you prepared for interrogation?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am prepared. I had concluded my answer and I am now waiting for further questions.
I can recollect that, Mr. Minister! Mr. Kioni, please, proceed!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the things that was not clear when this Question was answered by the Minister was the---
Order, Mr. Kioni! Note that these would be supplementary questions!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what was the formula used in computing the dues that were meant to be paid to the former members of staff? Have they been paid and if not, when will they be paid?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, all the former employees of ECK were given options to take a lump sum based on their remuneration at the ECK or to opt for redeployment into the Civil Service. The Question was on the deployment of those who were being absorbed in the Civil Service. I have said that they have all been redeployed as of now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had asked the Minister for a Ministerial Statement regarding this matter. He said that the former ECK staff would be absorbed immediately. Why did they assume that these officers are entering the Civil Service afresh? Why did they disregard the number of years these officers worked at the ECK?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have not disregarded the period they have worked. Each of the employees absorbed in the Civil Service have been absorbed in the Job Group for which they qualify in light of their experience and educational qualifications.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister's answer is really not true because former members of staff of the ECK have been posted to other places, but they have not been deployed. They have not even been given jobs to do. They have not earned any salary for the last four months. Some have children and other dependants but they cannot pay medical bills. Could the Minister tell this House if the Government intends to punish these members of staff of the former ECK? These are Kenyans like all other Kenyans. If they are not being deployed, why can the Interim Independent Electoral Commission (IIEC) not vet them and employ them so that they can earn their salaries?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the hon. Member has his information wrong. Every officer has taken all that was due to him or her in accordance with the terms of their employment at the ECK. Every officer has received a letter deploying him or her in the Civil Service. If there is any exception, I want to know that particular person.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can give one example of a group that was sent to the Treasury. They are all hanging around the conference rooms. They have not been deployed.
Order! That is adequate! You have given an example! Mr. Minister, what is your reaction?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I mentioned in my answer, my Ministry will continue to monitor each case. If there is a specific case, just give it to me and it will be dealt with.
Last question, Mr. Kioni!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I have got two answers from the Minister. One, he said that all former ECK officers have either been re-deployed or paid their terminal dues. He has now said that he would take each case as it
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that pension fund will be closed in accordance with the Trust Deed of that Fund and the beneficiaries will be, accordingly, paid.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Agriculture the following Question by Private Notice. What urgent steps is the Minister taking to provide affordable seeds and fertilizer to farmers in the Lower Eastern region, especially in view of the current rains and prevailing poverty and famine in the region?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek the indulgence of the House because the answer I have received is very unsatisfactory. I can answer this Question next week on Tuesday.
Dr. Munyaka, what is your response to that? The Assistant Minister requires more time to bring a more comprehensive answer.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is okay but let the Assistant Minister understand that the rains are not there for long. Next week, Tuesday, I need the answer.
The Question is deferred to Tuesday next week!
to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government. (a) Could the Minister confirm that Treasury, through his Ministry, allocated Kshs283,200,000 to the Nairobi City Council for the purchase of land for a cemetery in the last financial year?
(b) Could the Minister inform the House who was the vendor, the size, cost and location of the land?
(c) Could the Minister clarify whether procuring the said land, the relevant Government procurement procedures were followed and, if so, table the valuation report, sale agreement and information on which firm was involved in the conveyancing of the said land?
Mr. Linturi is not here? Question is, therefore, dropped!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. Under what circumstances did the police in Kirinyaga and Mathira allow a convoy of 1,000 motorcycles, each with three men wielding crude weapons such as pangas and axes, to drive through market centers in all the four districts of Kirinyaga and Mathira Division in Nyeri District on 19th April, 2009 under the pretext of hunting down " Mungiki" ?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware that on 20th April, 2009, not on 19th, motorcycle riders from different parts of Kirinyaga District converged and rode towards Karatina Market with some carrying a number of passengers. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the group was demonstrating against increased Mungiki activities in Kirinyaga District claiming that the sect operators originated from Karatina. They were, however, intercepted by the police at a roadblock between Kagumo and Karatina and ordered to go back home. However, some of the passengers alighted and proceeded on foot to Karatina where they held a demonstration against the sect but were later dispersed by the police. Mr. Speaker, Sir, after the demonstration by the boda boda operators on the 20th April, 2009, the sect members regrouped and hatched a retaliatory attack to reassert themselves, which they executed the following day, 21st April, 2009 at a village called Gathaithi in Mathira District.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the incident, Mungiki adherents tricked the young men from the village to come out of their houses to keep vigil overnight not knowing that the callers were Mungiki followers planning to attack them. They then set up a trap for the young men and killed 18 of them while four died while undergoing treatment at Karatina hospital. Another Seven local youth were killed by Mungiki at Kiaruhiu Village. The young men who were used to luring the locals to the killing site went into hiding. This is a very sad story. That is why my voice is drowning. The names of those young men includes Jame Gichuru Murimi alias Rasta, Patrick Karanja alias Soldier, Jacob Muchira Jangu alias Kanu, John Gichuru, Samuel Njoroge, Muriithi Paleko, Muriithi W. Gathethu and Michael Michuki.
Hon. Karua is the owner of the Question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought it now belongs to the House!
Now that the Assistant Minister claims there were 200 and not 1,000 motorcycles, could he confirm that each was carrying three persons, that would make them 600? My information is that there were 3,000 young men and they were carrying crude weapons such as pangas and axes. They had paraded through all the four districts of Kirinyaga and that they entered Mathira carrying crude weapons and passing roadblocks as though it was a Presidential motorcade.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very sad story. The information I have is that they were carrying two passengers each. Due to investigation that is going on, I would request hon. Members not to ask many questions in regard to this issue because it would jeopardize the police effort of bringing the culprits to book. I would also request the hon. Questioner who is also a good friend of mine, not to politicize this issue.
The police are investigating and I would---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to start talking about politicization when all I have done is to ask a supplementary question and factual details?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I have answered her question that each motor rider was carrying two passengers. That is the information that I have.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday this incident was discussed at length by way of a Motion. The Government must come out clear. We are only asking for facts. We are not interested in linguistics or semantics to cover up this matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to state that the Government has not come out clear because on that day these young men were not carrying passengers, but the vigilante group which was looking for Mungiki adherents. They were bradishing pangas, rungus and all kinds of weapons. They entered Karatina Town with intention of killing two young men. They robbed them of their mobile phones.
Order, Eng. Maina! This is Question Time, not debate time. Could you, please, ask a question?
Could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that the said group that he is saying was carrying passengers went to Karatina Town and brutally injured Zakaria Ndegwa and James Maina? They are admitted at Karatina Hospital. Their lives are in danger.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said, and I want to promise this House, the Government is doing all that it can to bring those people to book. So far, we have already arrested 73 suspects. Out of 73, 23 suspects have been charged with committing felony. Twenty have been charged with robbery with violence and 17 with murder. Other cases are being investigated.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, because this is a grave matter, I request the hon. Members to allow police officers to do their work. We will do all that is within our powers to arrest all those who were involved in this.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has described the situation as it was. It has been observed that these motorcycle riders went through
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is on high alert, not just in Karatina, but the whole country. Nothing will happen to the ordinary wananchi because of the presence of the security officers. As I speak, I have beefed up security by deploying more police officers in the area. As a matter of fact, I have deployed more than 150 Rapid Deployment Unit (RDU) officers together with a contingent of General Service Unit (GSU) officers. I think we are doing very well. We will arrest those who were involved in this heinous act.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the fact that this vigilante attack was actually followed by the massacre in Mathira clearly demonstrates that there was mismanagement of security situation by the police officers in that area. Why did they allow vigilante group to take charge? Could the Assistant Minister confirm that it is true that the police allowed the vigilante group to initiate the attack and that the attack in Mathira was retaliatory?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not true.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there were unfortunate remarks made by the Police Commissioner that these deaths occurred because hon. Members asked questions on extra-judicial killings and we were glorifying the work of the civil society. Could the Assistant Minister confirm that this is the position of the Police Commissioner that these killings were as a result of us asking about extra-judicial killings?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for an act of this nature, let us not base our arguments on rumours. The Police Commissioner has done good work. We need to congratulate him because he acted swiftly and we have contained the situation in Kirinyaga. Let us not vilify the Commissioner for no apparent reason.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister telling us that the Government is using one illegal group to suppress another illegal group in the same community because that is what is happening? If that is true, then the Government is absconding its responsibility of providing security to its citizenry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government cannot and will never use any illegal group. In fact, if he knows of any illegal group, I would like him to inform the police or me so that we can arrest members of that illegal group.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the last one week, part of my constituency has been at war with their Luo neighbours. This is due to the lack of action by the security forces. They have failed to arrest those people who attack others at night. I know more than nine people who have been killed while walking home. Due to lack of action by the police, people have gone to war. In fact, this is happening in Ogwedhi, which borders Migori. What action is the Assistant Minister taking to ensure that the officers on the ground are able to do their job or arrest criminals instead of allowing people to kill others?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, although that is a different Question, I want to say that Mr. Konchella is being investigated, as we speak, on incitement. If it is true that he incited his people against the other community, those who are residing on the other side of Migori, the law will take its own course.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to stand and accuse an hon. Member of committing crime and getting away with it? Is it in order? This is intimidation of the worst kind!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that the police are investigating those who incite members of one community against others. I said that one of the people being investigated is my friend, Mr. Konchella.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the height of irresponsibility, when you see an Assistant Minister who knows that it took Mr Pesa and I to make those two communities live together in peace. When some people were killed, I was here in Nairobi and I do not expect the Assistant Minister to say that about me. The Assistant Minister is talking about me!
Order! Order! Mr. Konchella, point out where you believe that the Assistant Minister is out of order so that he can respond or the Chair can come to your aid. There is a provision for you to make a Personal Statement, in our Standing Orders, if you need to assert your position.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a Personal Statement on this matter!
In that case, you have to find appropriate time for it and not now.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I believe that Mr. Imanyara has raised a very serious point of order. When the Assistant Minister decides to name one hon. Member, it is merely a form of intimidation, unless he names all of us who are under investigation! When he says the hon. Member is being investigated, it amounts to intimidation. I do not think that is in order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is good for us to say--- first. Iif a Member of this House is being investigated on account of incitement, I have to say it. I am a Christian and I do not know how to lie! We are asking our people to live harmoniously along the borders. My officers are investigating those who incited those people who are living in that area. I do not know if you are aware that Ogwedhi borders Mr. Konchellaâs constituency. When he attended a funeral, accompanied by other people, they incited people on the side of his constituency. We are investigating that. I have not said that he is a criminal. We are investigating whether he incited his people against the other community.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for hon. Ojode to discuss the conduct of a Member of this House without bringing a substantive Motion? The matter he has raised should be expunged from the records.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that I have not discussed the conduct of any Member of this House. I have only said that police officers are investigating those who incited the members of the communities that have lived together for a long time. I have never done that. I know the Standing Orders and I have been here longer than some of my colleagues.
Order, hon. Members! I have given adequate time on the points of order raised on this matter. It is my considered opinion that for the Assistant Minister to charge against the hon. Member and claim that the hon. Member is under investigation, merely because the Member has been
Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that the Assistant Minister has admitted that there were 200 motorcycles, although we insist that they were 1,000 with two passengers each, totalling to 600 people, could he tell us whether the law had been suspended in Kirinyaga for people carrying crude weapons to march through the district and cause terror and whether the same law had been suspended when 14 suspects were murdered under police watch by the vigilante thereby causing the reprisal?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the law had not been suspended. That is the reason why we managed to arrest 73 suspects. Investigations are still going on. I want to assure this House that those who were carrying crude weapons will be arrested wherever they are. We will investigate them thoroughly until we take them to court. I will also report to her what is happening on the ground on a weekly basis.
DETENTION OF MUCHOMBA THUOâS BODY BY KNH
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Medical Services the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is it a policy of the Kenyatta National Hospital to detain bodies of patients whose relatives are unable to raise outstanding hospital bills? (b) Could the body of the late Stephen Muchomba Thuo who died on 19th April 2009, be released to Grace Ngina Thuo (the deceasedâs mother) for decent burial at a place of her choice? (c) Could the Minister assure the family that the body will not be disposed of by the hospital administration within thirty days as threatened?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to answer. (a) It is not the policy of the KNH to detain bodies of patients whose relatives are too poor to raise the outstanding hospital bills. (b) The late Stephen Thuo was admitted at the critical care unit of the hospital on 2nd March 2009, and passed away on 19th April 2009 having incurred a bill of Kshs583, 125 as at May 2009. The mortuary bill had accumulated to Kshs4, 500 bringing the total amount payable by relatives of the deceased to Kshs587, 625. The relatives are free to collect the body for burial upon payment of this outstanding amount. However, should they not be in a position to pay part or the entire bill, the hospital has a credit facility, which they can utilize. If they wish to utilize it, they are requested to present themselves to the Chief Executive Officer, who will then initiate the credit assessment process.
Although the Public Health Act, Cap. 242 of the Laws of Kenya, obligates mortuaries to dispose of unclaimed bodies after ten days, Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) does not dispose of bodies whose relatives have expressed a willingness to bury such bodies. The family of the late Stephen Thuo is advised to
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for that comprehensive answer. Nonetheless, it is apparent that the body of the deceased has remained unburied since 19th April, 2009. That is more than three weeks and it is the case of the family that they have been denied the body on account of the outstanding hospital bill. Could the Minister confirm that the body will be released and the credit facilities that he has talked about are there because that has not been made known to the family?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, KNH is actually in a dilemma. On one hand it is a public institution that must accept Kenyans when they go for healthcare and on the other hand, it is an institution that must also meet the cost of delivering healthcare. That means that when people go there, they must do two things; they must have cash in hand to pay for the healthcare or let the insurance pay for it. Quite often, people like Mr. Stephen Thuo may not have insurance. In which case, they are compelled to pay their medical bills by cash. This is called out- of-pocket expenses. However, the hospital does have a credit facility and provided the relatives can follow the procedure for getting that credit facility, they will definitely be given the credit facility and the body will be taken away by the relatives. The KNH will retain the body for 21 days, after which, because other bodies are also arriving at the same facility and they must get accommodation, the relatives will be required to make a decision whether to use the credit facility or the hospital be compelled to dispose of the body because it cannot be retained in the mortuary perpetually.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I heard the Minister say very clearly that it is not the policy of the hospital to retain bodies. But the truth of the matter is that, even those who are alive including mothers were kept for over one month, until a media house alerted Kenyans before good Samaritans came to their aid. Just by the Minister saying that it is not their policy is not enough. The CEO and the management say that they do not receive adequate funds from the Ministry of Health. It is important for the Ministry to develop a policy within which they can build up the resource base for KNH, so that they are able merit by merit---
Order, Mr. Abdirahman! It is Question Time!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very specific. What clear policy guidelines does the Ministry have to support poor Kenyans so that they do not undergo what they undergo?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just to make a clarification; the mothers that the hon. Member is referring to were not bodies. They were human beings who were alive. So, that is a different case. What we are talking about is somebody who has already been deceased for some time. That is a different category of analysis than human beings who are alive. Nonetheless, I said that it is important that we have a policy that will help the poor receive healthcare. That involves health fund financing through
Last Question, Mr. Baiya!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the family is not able to pay the bill, could the Minister confirm that the family will not be dismissed?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I really empathize with the hon. Member and I also empathize with the hospital administration because we are caught between the rock and a hard place, whereby the hospital must meet its cost by recovering the expenses and at the same time the poor family must also get help by receiving the body. This is a case where somebody will have to come and guarantee the credit for the family and then arrangements be made to pay the bill over time so that the body can be released to the relatives. That is the only sane arrangement that the hon. Member may make to the family so that they can bury the dead with decency.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Before this Minister took over the Ministry, there was a policy at KNH whereby the chiefs could sign for those people who are poor and their bodies could be released. There was a very clear policy before this Minister took over. Is it in order for him to have abolished that policy which was helping Kenyans?
Mr. Minister, are your policies at variance in a short span of time?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member must be speaking of another Ministry of Medical Services which I do not head.
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) if he could explain to the House the criteria he uses to allocate land; and, (b) whether the Government has extended the lease of land to the Matt International Company in Lamu District, and if so, give the justification for the extension.
Hon. Members, the substantive Minister for Lands is occupied elsewhere and is not able to be here this afternoon. So, if the Assistant Minister is not there, then this Question has to be deferred to Wednesday, next week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not be around next week so we can defer it to the week after.
It is so ordered!
asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) when he plans to construct a fully-fledged district hospital to serve the needs of the population of over 300,000 residents in Emuhaya District; and, (b) when he will post another doctor to assist the District Medical Officer of Health (MOH).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. Emuhaya District is among the more than 100 new districts created since 2007. All these new districts require district hospitals bearing in mind that a model district hospital costs above Kshs1 billion in buildings and equipment. It is not possible to build fully-fledged district hospitals in all new districts. Granted that the Ministryâs infrastructure development and maintenance budget is about Kshs300 million annually, the Ministryâs proposal is to progressively upgrade key facilities in limited health centres and dispensaries among those proposed to become district hospitals with due regard to demographic consideration and geographical distribution. Emuhaya District will be given consideration alongside other newly created districts within the framework starting from 2009/2010 Financial Year. I assure the hon. Member that we shall hold discussions from tomorrow to decide which districts will be prioritised to have the new district hospitals.
(b) The Ministry has no immediate plans to post another doctor to assist the District Medical Officer of Health. That is because the facility is still operating as a health centre where we do not require doctors.
Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, if, indeed, hon. Members could urge my good friend here, hon. Uhuru Kenyatta, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, to enhance the budgetary contribution to the health sector, the demands from hon. Members for equipping and building their hospitals will definitely be met. But that lies in the good grace of the Ministry of Finance.
Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, for that good answer. I am happy that you will give Emuhaya a special consideration during the 2009/2010 Financial Year. However, given that Emuhayaâs Health Centre has no
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have received the demographic statistics of Emuhaya as a district and I know that the nearest district hospital from Emuhaya is the Vihiga District Hospital, which is 15 kilometers away. It is rather far away as a referral centre from Emuhaya. But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the land required for building a district hospital is not there. At the moment, the health centre occupies three acres, which is not enough to build a district hospital. Therefore, one of the things that I would request from the hon. Member is that, through the local authorities and with the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), to ensure that, first and foremost, there is enough space to build a district hospital. We shall then definitely ensure that, in considering hospitals for the new districts, given that Emuhaya is rather far from Vihiga, that we shall definitely prioritise that request. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the life and health of every Kenyan is important. There are areas where land is not a problem. For example, in the district where I come from, Garbatula, land is not a problem at all! When the Minister will be allocating his resources, could he give priority to those areas which are vast in terms of land mass and where citizens are not able to access health facilities to the level of a district hospital?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is right. If you take a constituency like North Horr, it is almost the size of Nyanza Province. You cannot expect people to access health care based on one district hospital. The Ministry, therefore, has a challenge to provide alternative methods of providing health care, rather than physical stationery facilities which will, obviously, necessitate mobile facilities. These are possibilities that we are considering. They have financial and proper equipment implications. I will be coming before the House with policies that may help us meet those needs, given the concerns that the hon. Member has expressed today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Last question, Dr. Otichilo!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Now, given that patients from all the dispensaries are referred to Emuhaya Health Centre, and given that we have only one medical officer of health who is mostly involved in administrative work, since you have indicated in your answer that you cannot post an extra doctor there, could you, please, consider posting at least two clinical officers to that health centre which is purported to be a district hospital, so that those people who come to that health centre can get the required treatment?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Emuhaya Health Centre, at the moment, has 20 beds, including a maternity ward. There are four clinical officers and nine nurses. Given the shortage of nurses and clinical officers that we have at the moment, I would plead with the hon. Member that we make do with the personnel available. Nonetheless, we have recruited 1,600 nurses and medical
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Imanyara? We have moved to the next Order. So, unless your matter pertains to the next Order---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stood up before the Order was read out! I did! You can confirm from your Clerk!
All right. Proceed!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under stand under Standing Order No.98 which states as follows:- âAny Member may at any time, on a point of order, invite the Speaker or the Chairperson of Committees to name another Member for gross disorderly conduct, but the decision whether or not to do so shall remain with the Speaker or Chairperson.â
Mr. Speaker, Sir, arising out of your own ruling that the conduct of hon. Ojode amounted to intimidation, I invite you to name him and send him out for the rest of the day.
Order, hon. Members! Hon. Members, after hon. Orwa Ojode did assert, in respect of hon. Konchella, that there were investigations under process against the hon. Member for a possible offence of incitement, the Chair listened to a number of interventions by way of points of order, which expressed extreme displeasure with the assertion by the hon. Assistant Minister. Bearing in mind the seriousness and negative effect that such an assertion will have on the free conduct of parliamentary business, the Chair did rule that the assertion by the Assistant Minister against the hon. Member, because the hon. Member was interrogating an issue at hand, amounted to intimidation. In the considered opinion of the Chair, that reprimand suffices for purposes of putting the Assistant Minister on guard and avoiding repetition of that manner of conducting business, and the Assistant Minister, I believe, has noted. Indeed, the Assistant Minister approached the Chair subsequently and apologised.
Appreciating that the Assistant Minister did apologise to the Chair, could he also apologise to the House and to the hon. Member concerned?
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister. You did intimate to me that you are sorry. Could you, please, apologise to the House as well?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I accept your ruling. If at all I have wronged any hon. Member of this House then I want to apologise.
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! I did rule that your assertion that the hon. Member was under investigation amounted to intimidation. You are seeking to encumber the hon. Member from interrogating the answers you had given merely because he is under investigation. So, it is not a matter of âifâ.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise.
( Mr. Wamalwa stood up in his place)
Order, Mr. Wamalwa. That is done! That matter must rest there. If it is on a different matter, I will allow you.
It is a different matter, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation relating to the deaths in Bungoma. You had directed that the Statement be issued today.
Yes, that is fine. The Minister for Public Health and Sanitation is here and she has some indication to make.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ask this House and the hon. Member to indulge me and allow me to give this Statement on Tuesday, next week.
The Minister requires further time to put together all the information that you require.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mungatana asked for a Ministerial Statement on what was
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank His Excellency the Vice-President for that Statement. It is a very serious issue that we are raising from the Floor of this House; that, there is definite need for reforms as they are happening within this House, to happen to the institution of the presidency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what we want to drive home, as a point, is that the institution of the presidency is not a personal institution. This country waited for four weeks without any form of Cabinet meetings. I would like to seek a specific clarification in terms of the Statement that the hon. Vice-President has given. When will we have clear and regular meetings of the Cabinet?
Secondly, we have seen a clear move towards reforms by this Parliament. We have introduced in this Parliament, the issue of live broadcast for the proceedings of this House. This has gone a long way towards, not only increasing the quality of debate, but also the transparency and quantity of the debate that comes here.
In terms of the reforms that need to happen to the Cabinet, I want to rely on the precedent of what is happening even today, in the State of Florida. We have clear live broadcasts because we are talking about an institution that is dealing with the people of Kenya. We want to know---
Order, Mr. Mungatana. This is for you to seek clarification from the Statement issued by the Vice-President. We have allowed you room because you are the originator of this request for the Ministerial Statement. I have allowed you to seek clarification and you have had one. I want you to ask for just one more and that is as far as we can bend backwards to accommodate you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when will His Excellency the Vice- President and the Cabinet consider to have that institutionalised within the system, so that Kenyans can have a peek of what is happening.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, so that the Vice-President can give us a comprehensive answer, in its schedule of meetings, I also wish to know whether the Cabinet has time in which they give notice to hon. Ministers to attend meetings. We have heard on a number of occasions that there will be no Cabinet meeting because one of the principals says the notice was too short and that he was engaged in other business. This is causing consternation to us. Does that mean that Cabinet meetings are called as an afterthought? Is it an ad hoc meeting? Is it scheduled? We need to understand this.
Further to that there is another clarification---
Order, Mr. Ruto. You are supposed to seek one clarification. I did point out that we were accommodating Mr. Mungatana because he was the originator of the request for the Ministerial Statement. That means that the general rule must apply to everybody else. So, you have had your share.
One more, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the question of collective responsibility---
What is it, Ambassador Affey?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs responds to these question, I would like to find out from him what the Government is going to do in the event that Cabinet Ministers continue to leak official secrets, even before a Cabinet meeting is over?
Mr. Musyoka, you may proceed. We must close those clarifications now!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sure, we would have loved to hear my learned friend, Mr. Ababu Namwamba, seek some clarification but thank you for shielding me from his intervention.
With regard to the point raised by Mr. Mungatana, I think I made it very clear. I want to make available a copy of this Ministerial Statement, so that he can acquaint himself with what I have just said on the matter of the fact that every other Thursday, there is normally scheduled a Cabinet meeting. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in that connection, the hon. Member for Chepalungu would be happy to know that notice of these meetings is given, at least, one week
What is it, Mr. Mungatana?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to inform His Excellency the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs that we need to move forward in terms of reforms. It is already happening in other jurisdictions, where there is live broadcast of Cabinet meetings. This is pointing out to the fact that these are not personalised institutions. This secrecy that even Parliament used to have, hiding things like Committee proceedings, have now been done away with. We have now moved on. Why is the Presidency not getting into the mood of reforms? This is what we are saying!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was actually coming to that, if the hon. Member had been a little patient. Knowing him, and given the capacities he has been able to display, I will not be surprised if in another 20 yearsâ time, the hon. Member of Parliament for Garsen becomes the President of the Republic of Kenya. I wonder whether at that time, he would want, for instance, when he chairs---
What is it, Mr. Mungatana?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, why is His Excellency the Vice- President and Minister for Home Affairs not wishing me well? Twenty years, surely?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, he can always revise my timetable, but the point is this, on a very serious note: Imagine a situation where Cabinet meetings that have to deal with matters of national security have actually to be done in the full glare of television cameras. Is it not the case that, because of the nature of some of the business that comes before this House, sometimes we would want to have sittings of the National Assembly held in camera? I do not think we have come to that stage yet. Certainly, there is going to be a lot of reforms. We have declared this year the reform year. Let us hear what Kenyans think, even as we look into the matter of the new constitution. I want to assure this House and the country that His Excellency the President is fully in charge and that he is discharging his duties and responsibilities as the Head of State, and, may I add, Head of Government.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand on a point of order to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister in the Office of the President in charge of State Protocol.
The matter that involves State Protocol has been in the minds of Kenyans for a long time now. Time has come that a definite statement needs to come from this Parliament, authoritatively. It, first of all, started between His Excellency the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, and the Right Hon. Prime Minister, upon their appointment, as to who was going to be sitting on which side of His Excellency the President.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this thing proceeded and then we experienced a scuffle on a national holiday at Nyayo Stadium between the security of the Prime Minister and the security of His Excellency the President. Later on, this proceeded to issues like salaries. It then went to another level, where we are talking about issues like carpets and other matters.
On the day before yesterday, this matter moved much closer to this House, because it came to the attention of some of us in this House that the Prime Minister was denied the use of the gate that is normally reserved for His Excellency the President when he makes a visit to this House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter that comes to mind is: Where is the Vice- President and Minister for Home Affairs and his protocol supposed to be? Where is the Presidentâs protocol supposed to be? Where is the Prime Ministerâs protocol supposed to be?
The Ministerial Statement is directed to the Office of the President. We have Ministers from the Office of the President.
Mr. Otieno): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should have the Ministerial Statement ready by Wednesday, next week.
Very well! Next Order!
What is it, Mr. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Supplementary Estimates were laid on the Table of this House on 2nd April, 2009.
Order, Mr. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance! I think you will have to hold you horses until that Order is called out.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sometime back, I sought a Ministerial Statement from the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance on the Nairobi Stock Exchange, Capital Markets, Nyaga Stock Brokers and Discount Securities. Yesterday, the Chair ordered that the Ministerial Statement be issued today. I have been waiting, but this appears to be in vain.
Order, Mr. Nyammo! Could you just help us to recapitulate what the Ministerial Statement is about? What is the request for the Ministerial Statement about?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sought a Ministerial Statement on the performance of the Nairobi Stock Exchange, the performance of some stock brokers---
When did you seek the Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sought it on 11th February, 2009.
Mr. Nyammo, that session is gone! You will have to renew your request. The provision in the new Standing Orders may be different, but note that the new Standing Orders did not begin to apply until 21st April, 2009.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Imanyara?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member did, in fact, make that request under the new Standing Orders and a ruling was given by the Chair with regard to that Ministerial Statement.
Order, Mr. Imanyara! Information we have from the hon. Member shows that he sought the Ministerial Statement in February, 2009. We were not in this Session at that time. So, Mr. Imanyara, you are out of order because you should have stood on a point of information. You should have checked if the hon. Member wanted you to inform him because he is the owner of the request. To that extent, you are out of order! Let us not play too much with that matter. I think it is clear.
Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Mr. Nyammo, I have made directions on the basis of the information that you have supplied.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday was by way of a reminder.
Mr. Nyammo, a reminder cannot apply to something which is spent!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was saying that the Supplementary Estimates were laid before the House on 2nd April, 2009.
That Order has not been read out yet!
No, it is fine!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is before the Order is called. I think I am in order.
Yes, you are!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The House approved the Supplementary Estimates on 29th April, 2009. The basis of the Appropriation Bill is to issue sums contained in the Supplementary Estimates and appropriating them for the purposes specified in the Supplementary Estimates.
On 5th May, 2009, hon. Gitobu Imanyara rose on a point of order to challenge the issuance of amounts contained in the approved Supplementary Estimates. Yesterday, having given the clarification on those Supplementary
Hon. Members, I have considered the matters canvassed by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance. I have also noted that the Joint Committee which was directed to inquire into matters relevant to the issues raised by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance commenced its inquiry today. The Chair has indicated that the Committee will file its Report timely as directed. Taking that into account, therefore, and applying Standing Order No.36 (2) to the facts as they have been narrated by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, it is my considered view that it will be in order to defer the business on Orders No.8, 9 and 10 until such time that the Joint Committee will file its Report, which is ordered and stands at Tuesday, next week. These Orders are, therefore, deferred!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I refer to your ruling. The hon. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance knows very well that a Supplementary Appropriation Bill is the only tool under which the Treasury and the Government will be given permission to spend money. As we are talking now, there is a
Order, Mr. Mungatana! Applying the rules of the House to what you are now saying, I find that you are being repetitive. This is because the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance alluded to all these matters earlier in this Session. So, there is no need to repeat these matters. The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance is aware of the urgency and importance of the Supplementary Estimates and he has said so to this House. Please, bear with the process.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am only saying that if we leave it open without your direction that these Orders must appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week--- I did not hear you direct that Orders No.8, 9 and 10 be on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week. This is a serious matter. The economy will suffer!
Order, Mr. Mungatana! Hon. Members and specifically, hon. Mungatana, the prevailing position is that the business under Orders No.8, 9 and 10 have already been allotted time. So, they will appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday next week, as a matter of course. They will only be deferred or treated otherwise, depending on the position of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance at that time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:-
THAT, pursuant to Section 41B(2) of the Constitution of Kenya, this House approves the recommendations on the Chair and Members of the Interim Independent Boundaries Review Commission (IIBRC) contained in the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Review of the Constitution laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 30th April, 2009.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have pleasure to move this Motion. The function of boundaries review was initially undertaken by the Electoral Commission of Kenya (ECK) until we disbanded that institution and set up the Independent Interim Electoral Commission (IIEC). Under Section 42 of the then Constitution, this function of boundaries was undertaken by the ECK. Following the 2007 elections fiasco and following the recommendations in the Kriegler Commission, this House moved the Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Bill, No.10 2008 where the House amended the Constitution and created the IIBRC. Under Section 41B(2), the Constitution provides for the position of chair and up to a maximum of eight members of the Commission. Under Section 41B(3), the Constitution provides for the selection criteria for selecting that institution. Under Section 41C, the Constitution provides for the functions of that Commission.
Who is seconding?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my very good Vice- Chairman will second.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it gives me pleasure to second this Motion. Let me start by confirming and concurring with the Chairman of the PSC that the nominees, both for the Chairmanship and the membership of this important Commission, are the best that appeared before the PSC. In taking time to prepare this list of nominees, we considered numerous factors. We considered gender factors and made every possible effort to attain acceptable gender balance. We considered regional balance and also ensured that these nominees, indeed, reflect the interests that bestride the length and breadth of
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I would want to begin by thanking the Parliamentary Select Committee that went through the tedious process of arriving at the list of the nine members. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is my understanding that this will be a reference Commission to the Constitutional review team. I would want to ask the President and the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister to expedite, if we so approve the names, so that this country can complete the processes of boundary review, Constitutional review and any other thing that is a problem. These are things that bring friction within the borders of our country and contradictions in the way our people live. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to urge this House that the wait has been long. I want to ask that we move and pass this list. I want to thank hon. Members because earlier on, there were people proposing that they would wish to amend certain names in the list. I want to thank my colleagues from both sides of the political parties that we have agreed and withdrawn the amendments.
I think it has been done in good faith by both sides. I think that is the maturity that the country needs. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if this Commission is confirmed, I would like to tell them that we, as a Parliament and country, expect only good conduct. We do not want to see a Commission like the former Electoral
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to also give my contributions.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. We should approve the Chairman and Members of the IIBRC. I say this because we, as a country, need to move forward. There is so much work ahead of us. Time is not on our side. Time is running out. I wish to take this very early opportunity to thank the Chairman and his team for the wonderful and marvelous work that they have done in interviewing more than 1,000 candidates that had applied. The reason why it has taken so long is because they wanted to be thorough. This is a question that this Parliament will have to answer. Who really should be doing the appointment and who should be doing the approving and disapproving? In the United States of America, the position is very clear. The Chief Executive of the country nominates and the Senate approves or disapproves. So, this is one issue
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Motion. I wish to congratulate the Committee for doing a wonderful job. Interviewing over 1,000 people is not an easy task. Indeed, they have been burning the midnight oil to do so. We must congratulate them for a job well done. Apart from that, just looking at the names of those appearing on the list; starting with the Chairman, what you see is merit in actually selecting those nominees. What you see is regional and gender balance. Indeed, we must congratulate the Committee and approve these names, so that these very able Kenyans can get to work. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think we, as a nation, need to remove tribal blinkers that we have been wearing in many matters that have divided us, as a nation. Many at times, when you hear of things, perhaps, you look at them through tribal blinkers. There are those who look at the Migingo Island issue and say: âThose Luos and Migingo and fishermenâ. They hear of the Mathira killings and say: âThose Kikuyus are killing each otherâ. They hear of the Pokots at a place called Kanyirus where beacons have been removed and say: âThose Pokots and their cattle. They are always crossing borders and raiding the Karamajongâ. They see these names and ask: What tribe is so and so? From what region? From what party? But the time has come when we must have faith in each other as Kenyans. We must look at each other as Kenyans. We must look at our
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand here to support this Motion. First of all, I want to express my appreciation to the Chairman and the Members of the Select Committee for a job well done. The Select Committee led by hon. Abdikadir and hon. Namwamba, respectively, has done us proud. These young Turks have done a very commendable job. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Review of the Constitution has now enabled us, through its recommendations to this House, to put in place one important institution which is critical to the governance of this country. They also assisted us recently, to establish an Interim Independent Electoral Commission, which is critical to this nation. I must say that we are on the right track on our way forward. I have looked at the various names, which have been recommended, right from the Chair and the other members, and I must say that they are achievers in their respective areas. These are people who have distinguished themselves in our society. It is a very well educated group of people. They know what this country expects of them. I have no doubt, in my mind, that they will do a good job for this country. These are people who inspire our confidence and we are sure they are equal to the task ahead of them. We were not looking for angels for this job. We were looking for the best from our society. If were looking for angels, we would not find them in our country. They are in Heaven. I have known the Chairman for sometime, as a distinguished performer, a man who rose to the highest levels in the Civil Service and who has served this country with dedication. He has impeccable credentials. I, therefore, want to support the Select Committee for
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak on this very important issue. Let me, first, congratulate the Select Committee for coming up with respectable names of respectable Kenyans who have a job to do for this country. I want to appeal to the Committee responsible for the names that have been brought to this House, first and foremost, that they should review the gerrymandering that took place in the past, in the manner in which constituencies were divided. A lot of hue and cry that has arisen is because of the manner in which certain constituencies were carved to the disadvantage of other constituencies. Secondly, in reviewing boundaries, and in this Committee having that task, the most important thing is to ensure that there is fair representation in the criteria in which constituencies are supposed to be equal. If you look at some of the constituencies, especially now, in this era of CDF, you will find that some constituencies neighbour others and yet they are smaller, both in size and population to a constituency next to them. If you look at a constituency like Kiharu and compare it with Kangema and Mathioya, you will realize that Kiharu is actually bigger than Mathioya and Kangema both in size and population. It is this kind of unfairness which should be put in the past and in perspective by this new Commission that will look at the issue of boundaries. I do not want to take a lot of time because hon. Members are in agreement about what we are talking about. I want to appeal to the Select Committee, through the Chair, that today, it has brought names before the House. However,
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution. From the start, I would like to say that I have no problem with the Chair and other members of the Committee except the nominee from the Coast Province. I am objecting to the appointment of that nominee for the following reasons. First, he applied to the Committee of Experts and the PSC disqualified him because he was the Chairman of the Mvita CDF Committee. Subsequently, he applied to the Interim Independent Electoral Commission but he did not make it. He has now come as a member of the IIBRC. We are wondering, if he was disqualified, initially because he was holding a public office, what made him qualify to hold this position as a commissioner of IIBRC? Secondly, we, as Members of Parliament from the Coast, made a presentation to the PSC and we asked the PSC to review those names before they were tabled in Parliament. To back what I am saying, I have a letter with me, which was addressed to the Chairman of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Review of the Constitution, signed by 18 Members of Parliament from the Coast Province out of the 23 and I will lay it on the Table.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if as regional leaders we are not supporting this nominee, why did the Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) not consider our concern. Instead, a name is being shoved down our throats. As a region, we feel short-changed and I am asking this Parliament to consider our plight. We have other nominees who were interviewed and they qualify to be members of this Committee. We would prefer that one of them takes up that position and the one who has been listed here be removed from the list. I speak for the region and as Members from the region, we have no faith in this nominee.
With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, asante sana kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili niweze kuzungumza juu ya mjadala huu. Mimi kama mmoja wa kutoka Pwani, naona ni makosa kwa sisi kila mara Mpwani yeyote akipewa kazi tunatumia Bunge hili ili kuwasagia wengine ili wakose kazi. Sio lazima kwamba atakaye pata kazi kila mahali awe ni mpenzi wetu, ndugu yetu, rafiki wetu ama ndugu wa kisiasa. Ningependa kuunga mkono kazi iliyofanywa na Kamati hii ambayo imechukuwa muda wao kutafuta watu ambao wanafaa kufanya kazi. Tunaomba kuwa watu hao waweze kufanya kazi kikamilifu maanake mwaka 2007, matatizo tuliyokuwa nayo ni kwa sababu ya watu ambao hawakuweza kufanya kazi sawa
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the list as presented by the Committee. I would like to join the others in congratulating this Committee for coming to this House united. Previously we had a problem where the Committee came and the Members had not agreed at the Committee level. This time round, they have done us proud by being united. This Committee is very serious for this country. We do not want any dot of mistrust as far as the Committee is concerned. I would like to persuade our colleagues that we must come out unanimously so that we can give the Committee a clean bill of health because if we do not, suspicions will start from this Chamber and will spread out. The issue of boundaries is going to be very sensitive. I would like to agree with one of the speakers that we must have clear criteria on what boundaries we want. We must agree on the criteria first. Those criteria must come to this House for approval. Whether we are going to use geographical terrain or population, we need to agree and approve it before we go out there. We want to reduce the debate on the ground and also reduce the acrimony. You will realize that whenever we are acrimonious in the House, it spills to the ground and nothing moves. I always remember the 2005 referendum. It is the acrimony that started in this House that spilled to the ground and the divisions were seen. I would like to persuade my colleagues that we must move together and agree over this Committee. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as for the membership, I believe that this is a team of unquestionable qualifications. I was impressed that we have one PhDs, six Masters degrees and two others. That means that we are going to get quality reports and, more than anything, we shall get paid back for educating these people. When we talk of gender, we are talking of minimum. We do not mean that you must look for exactly three. There seems to be a tradition that whenever we say a minimum of three of either gender, people imagine that we are looking for 30 per cent of women. Sometimes, it could 30 per cent of men. It does not have to be women always. I am saying that because when I look at the masterâs degrees that we have, I imagine that there are women who have that qualification but have been left out. I hope that the Committee was not looking for three women, close that then fill the remaining position with men. We must think uniformly when we are thinking of gender. Gender does not really mean women but either side. The other thing that needs to come up clearly in the criteria that we are going to give is where our development unit in this country is going to be. Is it going to be the district or the constituency? That is what is causing anxiety. When you are given more districts or constituencies, you do not know which one is the development unit. Currently, CDF goes to the constituency but the Roads Development Levy goes to the district. So, there is still confusion. A constituency that has two districts gets double the amount of money while the reverse is the case when you have two constituencies in one district. They get only a half the amount for roads while the CDF is double.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. I would like, first of all, to congratulate the Committee for doing a wonderful job.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Commission that is supposed to compliment---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of the mood in the House, would I be in order to request that the Mover be called upon to reply, so that we can rest this matter?
Order! Order! Order! Allow the hon. Member to finish. I have heard the mood!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to continue.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Interim Independent Boundaries Review Commission is very important in supplementing the work of the Interim Independent Electoral Commission (IIEC). As earlier indicated by the Mover of this Motion, the Commission is supposed to carry out work that was earlier under the mandate of the Electoral Commission of Kenya (ECK). That is why it is very important that we move expeditiously to put it in place, so that it can start work together with the IIEC.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, boundaries are very controversial in this country. Many of us who come from areas with huge populations believe that the past has not been very kind to them. Many of us who come from sparsely
Order! I think I get the mood of the House. I will put the Question.
If you are not in agreement with me, you can always vote. So, I am putting the Question, that the Mover be called upon to reply.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. May I thank hon. Members for the strong support for the Motion and for all the points that they have put across. I also thank hon. Members of the Select Committee for the hard work and members of staff of the Clerkâs Office for the hard work that they have put in.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, to respond to the issues raised on who should ratify or approve--- Should it be Parliament? Should it be the Executive? I think that is the question for the new Constitution to determine.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier on, it was the Executive which approved, appointed and nominated the individuals who served in those commissions without a competitive process and in a very opaque manner. I think it is, certainly, an important step forward. Those positions are filled by a very transparent process that is open to everyone. Advertisements are put up for every Kenyan to apply.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, I have come to the conclusion that there is merit for the Executive to nominate and for this House to ratify. I think that is for the Constitution, but those are my views.
Order! Order! There being no other business, the House will now stand adjourned until Tuesday, 12th May, 2009, at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 5.05 p.m.