Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill, 2009- --
Order, Mr. Abdikadir! You do not give a Notice of Motion for that kind of a report. It is presumed that your report encompasses amendments necessary to the Bill. So, those will be brought at the Committee Stage.
I stand corrected, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the 16th Report of the Public Investments Committee on the accounts of State Corporations laid on the Table of the House today, 24th June, 2009.
to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security: - (a) Could the Minister explain why the woman who was gang- raped by robbers while in the company of the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports, has been detained by the police and denied access to urgent life-saving medical attention? (b) Could the Minister ensure that she accesses medication immediately?
Ms. Odhiambo! She is not here.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I raised a similar point of order in the Ninth Parliament, in 2006 concerning the order of Questions on the Order Paper. The ruling of the Speaker then was that all Ministries are equal, and no Ministry is more prominent than the other. Therefore, there is no Ministry that should be given preference, so that Questions directed to it always appear first on the Order Paper. It is not by accident that some Questions always appear last on the Order Paper. You will notice that even in the morning, the Question that was directed to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation appeared last on the Order Paper. This afternoon, our Question is still the last one. The same case applies to the Ministry of Energy and other Ministries. Is there any Ministry that is superior to others? Is there any Ministry that should be answering its Questions last while others answer their Questions first? The ruling is already on record, but we need your guidance.
Fair enough! Mr. Kiunjuri, that appears to be a genuine concern, but I will want to go back to institutional memory. So, you will have to allow the Chair time to acquaint itself with the previous ruling on the matter. Then I will give directions easily. I will not give a ruling. I will just give directions depending on what that ruling says.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When I look at this Order Paper, as much as the Question to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is at the bottom, I can see that a Question to the office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance, which is a very prominent Ministry, is the second last. A Question to the Ministry of Medical Services is third from the bottom, and a Question to the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security is fourth from the bottom. So, I think the Assistant Minister is out of order!
Fair enough! Mr. Chanzu, thank you for your observation, but, that notwithstanding, I will still give directions after I acquaint myself with the institutional memory.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Once we ask Questions in this House, what is the proper follow up? I need your guidance on this; we
Order! Hon. James Kamau, the procedure, and what is expected of you as a Member of Parliament, is that once you are given answers in this House, those answers are binding on the Ministry, or the Government Department, that has provided them. So, it is your duty to follow up on those answers for implementation. If there is no implementation, you have recourse to the Standing Orders on what else to do. That rests the matter, Mr. James Kamau?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As you seek institutional memory, I would like to bring to your attention that last week I raised an issue about Questions that appear on the programme of the week, but fail to appear on the Order Paper on the day they are supposed to appear. You may wish to consider under what circumstances that happens, and why that should be so. What is the possible cause of this anomaly? I am talking about Questions which appear on the programme of the week. For example, my Question was supposed to appear on todayâs Order Paper, but it is not on it, yet I came prepared for it.
It has disappeared mysteriously!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether mysteriously, but it has disappeared.
You have no explanation; so, there is mystery!
Agreed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
I will cover that in my directions. Has Hon. Odhiambo come in? She is still not here! The Question is dropped!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister give an update on the situation of the cholera outbreak in the country? (b) What steps is the Minister taking to control the disease and stop further spread?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) From December, 2008, when the first case was detected, 31 districts have been affected, and in 20 districts the disease has been contained. About 3,946 cumulative suspected cases have been reported. There have been only 200 laboratory confirmed cases. Out of these, 89 deaths have occurred among those suspected and confirmed cases since December, 2008. Currently, there are outbreaks of diarrheal diseases in 11 districts. I say diarrheal diseases because it is not all of them that are cholera cases. (b) My Ministry, in collaboration with other stakeholders in the health sector, has initiated the following steps to control and stop further spread of the disease:- (i) Issued cholera alerts to all the health workers across the country;
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to add that there are figures given from other quarters and not from the Ministry of Public Health or the Ministry of Medical Services. Those other partners or stakeholders do not test the cases. They term any diarrheal cases as cholera and we all know that not all diarrheal cases are cholera. One time and another, I am sure many hon. Members have suffered like I have.
Dr. Khalwale, seek clarifications. It is actually a Question by Private Notice so just do a supplementary.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether it is the gods of Africa who are unhappy with Zimbabwe and Kenya because in Zimbabwe where there is a Coalition Government, there is cholera; and in Kenya where there is a Coalition Government, there is cholera.
It is not nice to be compared to Zimbabwe and I was happy that this Minister would give an answer that would make us look different from Zimbabwe. She knows very well that the first line of defense in this particular outbreak has been by the Red Cross under the support of the World Health Organization (WHO) which has given this Ministry over Kshs22 million. How can then she depend on reports from doctors who are in hospitals
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to correct the insinuation that it is the Red Cross which has been at the forefront in fighting this disease. On the contrary, it is the officials, doctors and nurses from both Ministries of Public Health and Sanitation and Medical Services. We appreciate the support given by the Red Cross but it cannot test. The hon. Member is a doctor and he knows that you have to grow a culture before you can know it is truly cholera. Many people suffer from diarrhoea which is not---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead the House that a culture has to be done to confirm whether it is cholera when we know very well that you can do a rectal swab and diagnose cholera without doing a culture? So, is the Minister in order to mislead this House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the swab has to be cultured. You have to develop that. He is a doctor, I am not a doctor but I know and I have been informed by professionals that after the swab, it has to be developed to decide whether it is cholera or not.
But the fact is, all the diarrhoea cases are not cholera. After such rains we are having now, first, we had the drought. It was an agent for cholera because water dried up and our people get water from all sorts of sources. Nobody knows what is in this water and whereas we have tried to chlorinate the wells and give out tablets to clean the water, they still cannot cover the whole country. After the drought our people bought water without knowing the source. Then we had floods which bring with them the Swine Flu. So, this has nothing to do with having coalitions. In fact, Kenya is not anywhere near to be compared to what happens in Zimbabwe. In Kenya, we are able to detect these diseases. In fact, all the samples for the Swine Flu are coming to Kenya from the whole region and we should be happy that, at least, we have the necessary institutions and very capable workers who are doing this work.
On cholera, we all know it spreads through unclean water or food. There is a problem of water which is not the problem of the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation. We thank the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for giving the Ministry of Water and Irrigation a lot of money to provide water through dams and boreholes which we shall then chlorinate. But this is a problem of climatic change. I just attended a meeting in Geneva and all the countries are crying about an increased outbreak of diseases because of the extreme weather patterns; either it is drought or floods. So, I would like to say for sure that we have been able to contain this disease in very many areas. I have provided the hon. Member with a list of how many cases are where as of now. Because it would take very long for me to read â I do not know if you want me to
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for the action she took on the outbreak of cholera in my constituency. The staff of the Ministry, for professional reasons, are so cautious about taking action along those lines. As a matter of priority, in order to improve the prevention, they should immediately move in once such cases are noted and test for cholera on site.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Mr. Bahari. As I said in my answer, because we did that in Laisamis and all the areas that this has happened. As soon as there is onset of such a situation; that patients report acute diarrhoea or unstoppable diarrhoea, immediately, we give medication. We do not even wait until that is tested to decide whether it is cholera or not. All patients who are coming in that condition are being treated. We also treat their families or the areas where they are coming from. That is the way we are trying to stop it from spreading. I want to say here that the people who are still in the hospital in the 11 districts, or the new cases reported both pure diarrhoea and cholera is 232 cases. Out of those, 46 only had cholera. In Mombasa which was highlighted a lot, only ten of the reported cases were cholera.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had an opportunity to visit the Coast General Hospital (CGH) when the outbreak was reported. At that point, the administrator hinted to me that they had almost run out of the test kits. So, I would like the Minister to tell me the last time they sent the test kits to the CGH, given that that is the regional hospital. How many test kits did they send to test malaria? Could she also tell us whether they have enough personnel to handle the testing and treatment?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whereas I know sometimes there are shortages, but I know we have enough test kits. Unless they were late in being delivered by the Kenya Medical Supplies Agency (KEMSA), they have enough test kits. I cannot say here now how many because that is completely a different Question. But if the hon. Member is keen to know how many test kits we have, I can bring back the number, but we have enough. We have a shortage of staff. I have always told this House that we were waiting for nurses to be employed after they had been interviewed by the Public Service Commission (PSC). However, it has taken this long. Hon. Members, as you have noticed, the Minister for Medical Services and I, have requested the PSC to allow us, at least, at the Ministerial level, to employ nurses. It is sad my Ministry will return money to Treasury because we have not used it to employ nurses. We have been waiting to employ nurses for the last one year. It is true that we do not have enough nurses in this country. However, I am glad to report to this House that the interviews have been completed. We will soon be posting nurses to some of our heath facilities. Given that each constituency will employ 20 nurses as provided in the Budget, I am sure, this will be a problem of the past.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do appreciate the fact that there is always inadequate staff. However, the answer given by the Minister lists the areas that were heavily hit by cholera. How come that Archerâs Post, which is in Samburu East, is not on that list of the areas to be considered for the deployment of public health technicians?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can hardly hear the question.
Mr. Letimalo, could you repeat your question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister in her answer listed the areas that were hit by cholera. However, she did not include Archerâs Post in Samburu East as one of areas she will deploy public health technicians. What is the position?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we do have regular staff in all the areas wherever we have our health centres, dispensaries and even district hospitals. The areas we employed special staff---
Madam Minister, why do you not just narrow in on Archerâs Post? Have you sent any public health technicians there?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We sent our staff to areas where cholera was very acute. That is what I wanted to explain. These are the areas where there were highest casualties.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! Madam Minister, could you, please, consider that area?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will consider it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is she in order to say that---
Order! Mr. Letimalo! The Minister has given an undertaking that she will consider that area.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Madam Minister for that very eloquent description of what they have done to contain the situation. There is cholera outbreak in Nyalenda, Kajulu and Kolwa areas. There was a cholera emergency action that took place in my constituency. Yesterday, I talked to the Provincial Medical Officer of Health (PMOH). I asked him about the four cholera cases that have been reported in Kisumu. The fact of the matter is that the public health officers are not doing their jobs. There is raw sewage in Kisumu. This is right in the centre of Kisumu City. Could she instruct her public health officers to sue the Kisumu City Council in respect of the raw sewage which is causing the cholera?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will definitely direct them to do so, if they have not already done so. However, I would like to urge Kisumu City Council to clear the raw sewage. It is not the work of my Ministry to clear it. I would also like to urge the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources and the Ministry of Local Government to do their work. If they do not, we will sue them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the four cases of cholera reported in Kisumu, these are new cases. In fact, we had contained cholera in Kisumu. The four cases referred to by hon. Shakeel have not been confirmed that they are cholera. But we are treating them as cholera. We are definitely making sure that it does not spread to other areas.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do appreciate the efforts that the Minister has made to make sure that cholera is now contained in Laisamis Constituency. I came from there yesterday, but we still have some cases there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are 16 reported deaths in Laisamis, including a young man who was coming from tending his cows and he could not walk any more. He slept under
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am truly sorry for the young man. I know about that incident because we talked about it. We will give them an ambulance, so that no one has to walk to the hospital. I do not know what exactly could have happened because I have my officers on the ground. However, when we were told those officers were not enough to handle the situation, we send a specific team to Laisamis. I am sorry if the action came a little bit late. It will not happen next time. I will follow the officers responsible for that.
Last question, Dr. Khalwale!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just like in Zimbabwe, the Minister, who is a layman in medicine is attempting to teach professional doctors in this House issues of medicine! I would like her to wake up and know that for every one case that dies in hospital, there are several other cases that have died in the villages because of the logistics of no ambulance, poor diagnosis and many other things. That is not the reason I am asking this question. Could she confirm that cheap as the treatment is, the treatment for cholera is actually in the peripheral hospitals? This is because we know that patients in peripheral hospitals are forced, not only to buy drugs, but also to buy simple things like paper on which prescriptions can be made.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot confirm that is what is happening. We have enough supplies in the hospitals. If the hon. Member brings any particular case, we will deal with it instead of generalizing. I cannot really pretend to teach medics here medical issues because I know management. I can teach the hon. Member management!
Having said that, I have very good professionals in my Ministry. They are very qualified, if not more than the hon. Member, they are the same. I believe that they do correct diagnosis.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
They do correct diagnosis!
Order! Order! Order, Madam Minister! You have responded to the Question. That looks like more of a side show.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! Do you really want to dwell on it?
Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Okay, let us hear you. What is it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to protest that it is completely unfair for the hon. Minister, whose Curriculum Vitae is very well known even on the web, to doubt my professional qualifications.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as I am concerned, it is still developing. Whatever that specimen is, it is yet to be developed. I have told the hon. Member that we have very qualified doctors and nurses whose diagnosis is recognised not only in this country, but also abroad. So, the medical personnel cannot mislead me. I have given this House the correct---
Order, Madam Minister! That must settle the matter now. I think what worried Dr. Khalwale more was that you seemed to put his qualifications in doubt, and yet it is known that Dr. Khalwale is a qualified surgeon. We know that in Parliament.
I acknowledge that, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) how much money the Government has spent on subsidized and/or free fertilizer for the last one year and what the quality, size and brand procured is; and, (b) who has been the recipient of the subsidized/free fertilizer by name and location.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request you to defer this Question until tomorrow. The Minister answered the Question, but Ms. Karua sought time to go through the papers. She is now back and the Minister is away. Could you defer this Question until tomorrow when the Minister will be available to answer it?
Hon. Members, the circumstances as expressed by the Assistant Minister are understandable. The substantive Minister is seized of this matter. The Assistant Minister is, therefore, unable to proceed. Ms. Karua, could I defer this Question to the earliest date when the House shall sit after tomorrow? Will the Minister be available tomorrow?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has requested that the Question be deferred until tomorrow. I plead that it appears on the Order Paper tomorrow before I forget.
Fair enough. The Question will be asked tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the third time my Question is being deferred. Could I be allowed to ask it?
Order, Mr. Konchella! I have already given directions. I am afraid that I cannot revisit that matter. If we save any time from the Prime Ministerâs Time, and we want to stop the Prime Minister at 3.35 p.m., then we will take your Question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not received a copy of the written answer.
asked the Prime Minister:- (a) the criteria and procedure the Government used to procure the services of M/s Intertek International Ltd to conduct fitness tests on the maize imported from the Republic of South Africa; and, (b) the amount of money paid by the Government for the services rendered.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Question was asked and answered by the Minister for Industrialization some time back. However, it was referred to the Office of the Prime Minister because of the argument that ensued that day. I would like to state from the outset that I do not have much to add to what the Minister said in this House on that particular day. However, for the benefit of those who might not have been there, a meeting was held in my office---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.40 for a very simple reason. The Prime Minister has been absent from this House for three consecutive sessions. I, and Kenyans expected that the first thing he would do is to, at least, explain where he has been. The Prime Minister has been sending his two deputies here. The first one, Mr. Uhuru Kenyatta runs an extremely busy Ministry. The same case applies to Mr. Mudavadi. In fact, Mr. Mudavadi told us in this House that he was unable to explain---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Olago! Mr. Mungatana is on a point of order! We have to hear him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mudavadi said that he was unable to explain a simple issue like the meeting that the Prime Minister had with the Chairman of
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the hon. Member will allow me time to explain, I will do so. There is a specific Question that has been asked. I will make a Statement and deal with those issues after I have answered it. I have very little time. However, there are hon. Members who are in the habit of standing up on points of order and so, we waste a lot of time when we are supposed to deal with substantive issues.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mungatana is doing exactly the same thing. He is notorious for doing that.
Order, Mr. Mungatana! The Prime Minister has undertaken to respond to the issues that you have raised in your point of order.
Order, Mr. Mungatana! I will have to allow you before you move to the microphone!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it? Mr. Prime Minister, let us hear him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister should yield. It is the tradition of this House that when a Minister is absent or late, the first thing to do is to explain his or her absence. Where we are dealing with the Prime Minister---
Order, Mr. Ochieng! Order, Mr. Outa! Let us hear him. Mr. Mungatana, could you get to the point?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the point I want to make briefly is that the traditions of this House demand that if a Minister is absent or comes late to the House, he should give an explanation before addressing us. Standing Order No.40 is specific to the Prime Minister. It is only fair that the Prime Minister gives an explanation. That is a reasonable demand.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that I will make a Statement and deal with my absence from the House. I have been longer in this House and I know its traditions. I want to inform the House that a meeting was held in my Office on 25th February, 2009 specifically to discuss the issue of maize which was then being held at the Port of
Is there any request for clarification; we will take three? This matter had, at any rate, been dealt with fairly substantively. We will begin with Dr. Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I remember that when the issue of quality of Alvaro came to this House and it was doubted, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Health, Housing, Labour and Social Welfare upon realising that the Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS) had already spoken, chose to go all the way to France and Geneva to see whether they would duplicate the same results. So, my question to the Prime Minister is: Aware that the premier quality assurance authority in this country is KEBS, why did you choose to refer the matter to an inferior entity called âIntertekâ, instead of opening up your mind and going the international route? Could the Prime Minister clarify if there are any people in Government, who either had something to hide or a special interest in the matter?
Order! Order! Dr. Khalwale, you seek one clarification at a time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister did not respond to part (b) of the Question paused.
I thought he gave you the amount of money spent.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while we appreciate the answer that the Prime Minister has given to this House, the contract, which was entered between M/s Intertek
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Prime Minister to tell the House who determines which contracts are urgent? Under whose docket do the contracts that are supposed to be awarded directly fall, because they were actually urgent? We know very well that right now, in Kenya, we have a serious and biting drought, but the Ministry of Water and Irrigation could not be given the indulgence to invoke that Section of the law, so that direct contracts for drilling boreholes in Northern Kenya could be awarded . The Ministry of Finance refused completely to grant the indulgence. Was the maize more important than the drilling of those boreholes?
Your point is made, Mr. Gabbow!
The last one, Ms. Karua!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I want to begin by appreciating the Prime Ministerâs statement in Geneva on Prof. Alstonâs Report. On this issue, may I ask the Prime Minister if he could tell the House who was the procuring entity for purposes of that contract. Could we see a copy of the contract with M/s Intertek International Limited, for this particular task?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason this Question was deferred until the Prime Minister got back to the country was because the Minister for Industrialization was not able to satisfy the House. For example, what is the technical capability - both professional and of equipment - of M/s Intertek International Limited vis-a-vis KEBS, Government Chemist and Kenya Plant Health Inspectorate Service (KEPHIS)?
Two, if KEBS, the Government Chemist and KEPHIS condemned this maize and then M/s Intertek International Limited said, âThis maize is okayâ, who do we believe? If we believe M/s Intertek International Limited, could the Prime Minister tell us whether these Government bodies are going to be dissolved? If he believes the Government bodies, when are we going to cancel the contract with M/s Intertek International Limited, because we cannot rely on a company that is likely to lead our people to death?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the information of hon. Members, I am going to lay on the table a copy of the minutes of the meeting that decided that an independent testing authority be appointed, and the reasons for the decision. On the reasons, I will summarise and say that there were conflicting testing results. The KEPHIS results certificate said: âUnfit for human consumption but fit for animal consumption.â The KEBS had three certificates. One says: âUnfit for human consumption but fit as animal feed.â The second one says: âUnfit for both human and animal consumption.â The third one says: âFit for human consumption.â The certificate by Government Chemist says: âUnfit for both human and animal consumption.â So, faced with this kind of unusual situation, where three authorities in the country came up with very conflicting
Fair enough! Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, there was a request amongst those clarification requests that you table documents incorporating the contract. If they be minutes, that will be good enough but they need to be tabled.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said I do not have the contract with me but I will table them some other time. The documents that I have here are the procurement rules that allow this and the Certificate of Analysis---
Order, Mr. Prime Minister! Those have not been requested for.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also have a copy of the minutes of the meeting that did resolve that an independent authority be appointed to carry out the tests.
Rt. hon. Prime Minister, it is documents incorporating the contract with Intertek International Limited that are needed. So, ---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I understand that but somebody also asked how the decision to appoint M/s. Intertek International Limited to carry out the tests was made. I have copy of the minutes that resolved---
Let us have those minutes and you will need to table the documents incorporating the contract.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I need your guidance because the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister has not responded to the clarifications that I sought on the technical and professional capability of M/s. Intertek International Limited. Secondly, I appreciate the responsibility of the Office of the Prime Minister to protect all Kenyans. That is why I am asking, since this so called independent firm has given a contradicting report to our own Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS) and others, what action is he taking to protect Kenyans either to cancel the contract for M/s. Intertek International Limited because we do not believe them or revamp and reorganize the KEBS? I would like some guidance.
Rt. hon. Prime Minister, the hon. Member is concerned that you have not responded to the issues that he raised.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did say that M/s. Intertek International Limited is an international independent testing authority. It is registered in many industrialized countries where it does tests. It is registered in the United Kingdom (UK), France and several other countries. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think that Members of Parliament who are conversant with these matters will doubt the qualifications of M/s. Intertek International Limited. I do not want to try to compare the competence of the KEBS and M/s. Intertek International Limited because KEBS is our national institution and we protect our national institutions. However, when doubts are raised, we must therefore, try to verify them. That is the reason we have a bureau of standards. A bureau of standards should be like the Caesarâs wife. But if it comes out with three different certificates which are conflicting, what do you do? You would do exactly what we did and I am sure the hon. Member, faced with a similar situation would not have acted differently.
Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, are you prepared to undertake to protect the KEBS?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to the extent that the KEBS maintains professional integrity, I will protect it. If doubts are raised about the work of the KEBS, I will investigate them. That is my responsibility.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister in order to mislead this House? While I do not claim to be an expert in maize testing, what I know is that the initial test that will be done, will be to find out if this substance is suitable for human consumption. After that---
Order, Dr. Eseli! We have rules to respect. We closed requests for clarifications with the last clarification being sought by the Questioner. Therefore, if you are introducing another matter---
It is not another matter, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
So, what is your point of order then, in relation to the response made by the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister is misleading the House because the testing of the maize by the KEBS or all the other laboratories is showing what is purported to be conflicting results and that is not the case. They were just results at a certain stage of testing.
Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, would you want to respond to that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is a professional, I would like him to come here and look at the results. One says the maize is unfit for human consumption but fit as animal feed. The second one says, unfit for both. Another one says fit for both. This is unprofessional. I promised the House that I was going to make a Statement on Green Energy---
Order, Rt. Hon. Prime Minister! When will you table the contract?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the House sits next.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Kazungu! The Prime Minister is responding to a direction from the Chair.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the document will be available during the next sitting of the House.
Next Wednesday is fair enough?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Mr. Kazungu?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the answer by the Prime Minister. However, the document the Prime Minister is promising to bring on Wednesday is the same one I already laid on the Table.
Order, Mr. Kazungu! That is anticipating the future. So let us wait until the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister tables the document.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that one of the highest authority in this country has put doubt on the KEBS, is there any need for the existence of KEBS?
Order, Mr. Gabbow! When you say, âthe highest authority in Kenyaâ what do you have in mind?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said one of the highest. I am considering that this is a Grand Coalition Government.
I think the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister responded to that. I did direct him to give an undertaking to the House that he will protect the KEBS. That undertaking has been forthcoming. That should rest the matter.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Olago? It had better be a point of order that is relevant to what has immediately transpired.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a fundamental point of order. It relates to an issue that was raised by my very good friend, Mr. Mungatana, which the Prime Minister has thought wise not to respond to. I think it is very fundamental. Mr. Mungatana raised the issue that the Rt. hon. Prime Minister has been absent consistently from the House and that he owes the House an apology. The issue which Mr. Mungatana has deliberately left out is the fact that the Rt. hon. Prime Minister can choose to delegate to any of his Deputy Prime Ministers. That is set out under Standing Order No.40 (3).
Order, Mr. Olago! That really speaks for itself. I did not think we would go that way. Even the Chair is able to read these Standing Orders. I thought that the HANSARD has the record of who acted in the absence of the Prime Minister. Therefore, let us not belabour it really. Let us not go that way, please. It is not very helpful. I know it may be helpful to some extent but not really.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want us to spend our time much more seriously in the House. We have spent too much time on that issue. On the issue of laying on the Table the contracts for Kshs25,000, if we go to the extent of doubting the honesty of the Government with regard to Kshs25,000, we will be going too far. I do not want to go that route. I now want to address a more substantive issue. Mr. Mungatana was concerned that the hon. Prime Minister has been away for three consecutive weeks and that he owes an apology to the House. It is not an apology that the Prime Minister owes the House because out there, the Prime Minister was also on Government duties. The Standing Orders, as Mr. Olago, has pointed out allow the Prime Minister to delegate duties. What I owe the House is to say what I was doing outside there. In South Africa, Cape Town, I attended the World Economic Forum which was discussing issues of development in Africa in the light of the global recession and the investment climate in Africa at this time. I was accompanied by the Minister for Trade, Mr. Kimunya. Thereafter, I was invited to give a keynote address to the UN Conference on Climate Change and Disaster Risk Reduction and Management in Geneva. That is the reason why I was not able to be in the House at that time.
Hon. Members, we will take three clarifications only. Please, note that this is a Supply Day and we are constrained with time.
We will begin with Mr. Lekuton. Please, keep your requests brief!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Prime Ministerâs speech was excellent. It is time that this country woke up and realised that the world is changing. In some countries like the United States of America and even China, as I mentioned before in one of my Questions last time, by 2030 at least 40 per cent of their power will come from renewable energy. I think the Prime Ministerâs speech and his visit to South Africa was excellent and I appreciate it.
However, I would like the Prime Minister to clarify something. We are going towards clean energy and the carbon credit point. We also have another hazard in our country. Our country has no gas emission qualifications and standards. We have vehicles and motor cycles which continually destroy our air and pollute our environment. I would like to urge the Prime Minister that as we continue to talk about the clean air, getting
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to congratulate the Rt. hon. Prime Minister for this good initiative.
I had occasion to look at the maps of continents at night. All of them were brighter except the African Continent, which was dark because of the low output of power. I would like the Prime Minister to clarify whether the 2,000 megawatts of electricity that we require is not part of the deal between the Kenyan Government and the Ethiopian Government, as a result of damming River Omo, hence causing untold suffering both ecological and economic to the communities around Lake Turkana.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could he also confirm further that the Kenyan Government has actually not entered into an agreement with the Ethiopian Government for the supply of electricity over the blood of our people?
Finally, could the Prime Minister confirm that there is an existing Inter- Ministerial team between Kenya and Ethiopia, just like the River Rhine states of River Nile Treaty?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to enjoin my colleagues in congratulating the Rt. hon. Prime Minister for that speech. This is foresight, proactive and what we would like to see this Government do.
Having said that, the Prime Minister has stated that 70 per cent of our power is hydro generated. The others include geo-thermal, wind and bio-fuel which constitute 30 per cent of power production. We did not hear from him how we will protect the 70 per cent production which has reduced because rivers are drying up and the water towers are not being protected. In addition, our forest cover has declined instead of increasing.
Mr. Mungatana, we will make an exception only if you seek your clarification in one minute.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also thank the Prime Minister for his speech. According to the Economic Survey of 2009, the petroleum import bill increased from Kshs113 billion in 2006 to Kshs121 billion in 2007. Therefore, it is a good and proactive move when we look at new sources of energy. I join the other Members in supporting the Prime Minister.
However, when the Independent Power Producers (IPPs) were introduced in the country, and I believe the Prime Minister was the then Minister for Energy, the mode of paying the IPPs was very expensive to the consumer. In fact, the Chair will remember that, that made the cost of electricity almost ten times the one of South Africa. Kenyans are worried. What will the Prime Minister do to ensure that the task force that he gazetted on 15th June this year will put measures that will protect Kenyan consumers? He has told us that he will set up wind and solar-generated plants. We thank him and his task force for those plans. However, what will the Prime Minister do to protect the Kenyan consumer against the exorbitant prices that we experience to date because of the IPPs that were introduced a few years ago?
Rt. hon. Prime Minister, try and finish in seven minutes!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree entirely with Mr. Lekuton about the pollution of our environment by what we call âvehicular pollutionâ. There are emission standards that need to be enforced by the authorities, but are not being enforced. Other countries have made the use of bicycles in certain circumstances mandatory. If you visit a country like Netherlands, you will find many people riding bicycles. The same thing happens in China. They use muscle power rather than vehicular power. This is something that should be explored. I will propose that the task force also looks into this by factoring the use of other alternative means of transport. This will require that we also create special lanes so that cyclists are not endangered by motorists.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I share the concerns of Mr. Ethuro about River Omo and what is going on there. At the moment, the Ethiopians are constructing a large dam on River Omo which will have the effect of diverting the water. This will affect the water level at Lake Turkana. I confirm that negotiations between our Government and the Government of Ethiopia are on-going to ensure that once completed the dam will leave enough water, so that the water level of Lake Turkana does not recede.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Ngugi knows my patience about our water towers. We have in this country---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Members are consulting very loudly.
Order, hon. Members! Please, lower the level of your consultations, so that we can hear the Prime Minister!
Fair Enough! What is it, Mr. Mungatana!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister gave a good answer, but there is something he has failed to address. The geothermal power plants that he promised he would build, the wind and solar power plants, biomass power plants, among others. What measures is he going to take to make sure that we do not have those costs? What measures will he take to make sure that it does not become another IPPs or expensive venture that we, as Kenyans, will bear in the final analysis of this green energy movement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the hon. Membersâ concern. That is reason we have set up the task force consisting of experts chaired by the Prime Minister. We have Ministers in there. Once the experts come up with their report, they will bring it to a committee that is chaired by the Prime Minister. We will finally look at it before it is taken to the Cabinet. Finally, that report will be brought to this House for approval. What we want is to ensure that the cost is reduced so substantially that Kenya can become competitive in the regional and international markets.
Hon. Members, in view of the time we have so far spent, we would continue our business until 6.57 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 11th June, 2009, I tabled before the House Estimates for the Financial Year 2009/2010. During this time and thereafter, I have received overwhelming encouragement and support from hon. Members and Kenyans in general. I would like to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members for their valuable contributions that
Order! Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance we have reminded you about this one before. My Clerks-at-the Table who keep the record when I am otherwise detracted intimate that you have still not moved the Motion. You have not read it out.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, in accordance with Section 101 of the Constitution of Kenya, the withdrawal of Kshs283,860,390,124 representing one-half of the total net estimates of Recurrent and Development Expenditure made up in the manner set out in the Vote on Account Schedules laid in the House, be authorized for the purpose of meeting expenditure necessary to carry on the services of the Government of Kenya during the year ending on the 30th June, 2010 until such time as the Appropriation Act for the year comes into operation.
(His Excellency The President has given his consent to this Motion)
Who is seconding?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to propose an amendment to the said Motion. I want the Motion to be amended by deleting the words âone-halfâ appearing immediately after the word ârepresentingâ and inserting the words â30 per centâ in the place thereof---
Order, hon. Member! The tradition of the House is that when you want to move an amendment on such a Motion, you allow other hon. Members to contribute. Allow hon. Members to ventilate on the Motion itself first.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with your ruling. I am in a very great personal dilemma whether to support the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, which is a natural inclination because I think he has done a good job, but I am also informed by greater wisdom that the facts dictate that I do not support it. Let me put the facts on the table and the House will decide for itself.
First, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance claims that this is a procedural Motion. He has quoted the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya, a Constitution that he aspires that in the near future, to swear to defend. It cannot be procedural. It is also working on assumption that until such time that the Appropriation Act for the year comes into operation. The assumption here is that by the end of October, you do the guillotine. Those were the old Standing Orders. We have moved on. The new Standing Orders state that by the end of August, we will have finished with the business of the Government. So, what justification does he have apart from traditions for asking for 50 per cent which is between July and December, if by the end of August, we are going to give him everything he needs. He needs to move with the House. The House has moved with Kenya and he cannot be the only one remaining behind.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my other misgiving is that I have never known why we give the Minister for Finance 50 per cent of the money and yet, the CDF Committee never gets all the money. He has increased CDF and I agree with him but let us walk the talk. There is an outstanding amount of Kshs2 billion. There is still Kshs2 billion outstanding for the current financial year. I want to take this earliest opportunity to give warning to the big five in the Government like the big five in the wild that failure to release this money, we are not going to release money for the famous constituencies of Othaya, Langata and Gatundu South. Where do they expect us to get the money from if they cannot release it?
Proceed, Mr. Ethuro! You are amused by your own statement!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I have given sufficient warning and since I know and pray that he will be there next year in the same Ministry, I will bite that time. For now, I will allow him to get away with this one. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Motion because the Minister just read the Budget Speech the other day and it was quite in line with the thinking of Kenyans. We are in a rush to implement those thoughts. Because of this, I have no option other than to support the Minister while I agree with my colleague, Mr. Ethuro, that perhaps, times have changed so that this Ministry must also change. But I would be very reluctant given where I come from, where there is a lot of drought and Kenyans are suffering in that place. There is no water and food. It behoves me to support- --
Order, hon. Ministers! You listen to the hon. Member!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it behoves me to support this Motion without any reluctance. So, without wasting time, I beg to support.
I think the Minister meant routine. It is a substantive Motion that is being debated now. When you say a Procedural Motion, it is that you want to---
Mr. Okemo has the Floor! I want to believe that the Minister meant routine; tradition!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, looking at the HANSARD when we were debating the Vote on Account last year, if one takes the trouble to go that far back, there were many comments that were made, some by me and some by other hon. Members. It is unfortunate that I do not think the Minister took the trouble to look at the concerns and comments that hon. Members made last year when his predecessor laid the Vote on Account for the year 2008/2009 on the Table. One of the concerns that was raised in this House was that we would like the Minister to justify the maximum provision under the Constitution which is 50 per cent by making an attempt to show the implementation status for the same period last year. For example, to say when we asked for a Vote on Account, 2008/2009, we got 50 per cent which was so much. During that period, by the time the Appropriations Bill was passed and became an Act of Parliament, we actually spent so much of that Vote on Account so that we are able to see that, indeed, there is a strong justification for asking for 50 per cent and not 40 per cent or 30 per cent. So, that is one observation I made. I thought that in moving the Motion, the Minister would have shown some implementation status to show how much money was spent out of the Vote on Account. That did not happen! So, I am a little concerned about that. The other thing that I thought the Minister would have done would be to show up to date â I know that he did it when he presented the Supplementary Estimates, the actual expenditure up to date â but he should have highlighted areas where he spent less than was provided for or where he spent more or spent exactly what was budgeted for. That really gives us some feel for whether this 50 per cent that he is asking for now is justified or not. I was chatting with Mr. Ogindo about his amended Motion and I said it suffers exactly the same shortcomings as the Ministerâs because he has just thrown a figure and the Minister has thrown a figure. So, there is no difference. Therefore, if there had been an attempt to justify Vote by Vote, how much is required, and I think that should be done in future, so that we know. In fact, some of the Votes, I know that he may even require more than 50 per cent. I know that from experience! For some Votes, he will require 50 per cent to be spent immediately because of contractual obligations. Some will be linear; in other words, it will be equal amounts per month. So, when he puts that some total of requirements, it might probably end up with 60 per cent but let us see the actual figures to justify. So, I believe that since the Minister has taken a shortcut and everybody is
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will reluctantly support him because of the mood in the House.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support this Motion. The Minister for Finance has asked for the authority to withdraw 50 per cent of the coming financial year Budget in order to make the Government departments run. I want to support him because there are some Government Departments or Ministries, if not all, that need urgent attention, for instance, the Ministry of State for Special Programmes. Our people in some areas need a lot of relief food like the area I come from. We cannot wait until August or October for the authority to withdraw money for that purpose to be given by this House. So, I urge this House that we consider this Motion positively because of the plight of those Kenyans living on relief food. We also have the commission that this House has just formed; the Interim Independent Commission on Boundary Review (IIBRC) and I think it is high time that we also give them money to start their work immediately because those are some of the reforms that we are saying as Kenyans that they need to be addressed urgently.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a Committee, we had time to look at this Motion of Vote on Account and to think through whether what the Minister is asking for; 50 per cent, really, it needs to be given to the Minister to spend at this time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that, as a Committee, we failed to arrive at a scientific way of assessing the 50 per cent or any other percentage that would be proposed. So, we agreed, as a Committee, that we would support this Motion, but on condition to the Minister that, next time, we expect a bit of innovation and creativity. Because if you look at the request for 50 per cent, the Recurrent Expenditure that the Minister is asking for is normally spent almost evenly throughout the year. So, if you strictly follow the Recurrent Expenditure, probably the Minister would have come up with something like 16 to 20 per cent of the total Recurrent Expenditure Budget because we only have two months to critically analyze the Budget and make the approval at the end of August, 2009. So, as a Committee, yes, we accepted to support the Motion, but on condition that the Minister becomes more creative next time so that we do not just have a uniform percentage request for approval of Vote on Account.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to concur with Mr. Okemo that even if you talk of 10 per cent, it is not scientifically arrived at. There are some Ministries, probably the Ministry of Roads, which may require more money because there could be some ongoing projects which require spending, even at the beginning of the financial year. One of us also mentioned about the Ministries of Agriculture, Water and Irrigation, that there are some projects that require immediate spending. So, based on that, after a
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also stand to support this Motion. I want to start by saying that when the Estimates of this yearâs Budget were presented here in Parliament, we all clapped and we gave kudos to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance. This Budget was referred as the first ever Budget in this House to be the peopleâs Budget. So, let us not try to water down the impact that was created by this Budget. Since we all know and have accepted that this money is now going to the citizens, and that they will benefit, we should not question it or hesitate. We should just support it and say, once again, kudos to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance. We should just say that we are going to pass this Motion now so that the citizens can have access to the services. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need this money to implement the projects that were mentioned by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance. If we will hesitate to pass it, we will delay delivery of services to the common mwananchi.
With those very many words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support in totality!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to also support this Motion provided that certain conditions are actually met.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I laud the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for being fairly innovative, I believe he is yet to prove that he can actually walk the talk. The serious challenge, once we go to implementation, is the apparent thinking within the bureaucracy that they monopolize all the knowledge on implementation of projects. We are hearing statements to the effect that they intend to tell us what to buy, how to buy, how to proceed. We are hearing very confusing noise! I think it would be proper if the Ministry actually consults properly with Parliament so that the relevant Committees can give advice that would not lead into disillusionments in terms of implementation. There have been serious bottlenecks in line Ministries implementing projects. In fact, that is why development has stalled in this country for several years. Money is voted, and I am aware of one project in my constituency which was allocated Kshs6 million for the youth centre. The money has been returned to the Ministry. I have no idea why. I do not know! Why do they do these things? We cheat the youth that we are going to build these things, the money comes and it goes back to the Treasury! Is this what the Ministry of Planning, National Development and Vision 2030 and, maybe, the Ministry of Finance intends to do with this yearâs Budget? We are also aware of certain very noble ideas that came along, for example, the one on sports for the youth. We believed that it was going to be managed reasonably well. But the Ministry of Sports and Youth Affairs has confused the exercise and up to now, even the youth are complaining in our constituencies. We are told that we are patrons, but we do not even
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Motion be amended as follows:- First, by deleting the words âone-halfâ appearing immediately after the word ârepresentingâ and inserting the words âthirty per centâ in place thereof. Secondly, by deleting the words âKenya Shillings 283,860,390,124â appearing in the second line and inserting the words âKenya Shillings 170,316,234,074.10â in place thereof. Thirdly, by inserting the following words at the end âand the schedules laid be amended to reflect the above.â Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I propose these amendments with very clean hands. Last year, we made a similar proposal in this House. This house is in the business of legislation, oversight and representation. In exercise of the oversight role, this House is normally called upon to approve the Estimates. The Standing Orders have since been revised and the approval process has been shortened. Previously, the House needed up to the end of October to approve the Estimates, but this time round that has been reduced up to 31st August. If you do the calculation, that gives us only two months into the next financial year. I find it a little extravagant for the Minister to seek 50 per cent of the vote because he only has two months to operate before the House grants him 100 per cent. It is also incumbent upon this House to scrutinise the Budget. That exercise requires time. With expanded Committees, this House will expedite that process on behalf the taxpayers who cannot come here and see what their money is being spent on. This House is being called upon to see to it that their money is being put to right use and for their benefit on a Vote by Vote basis. It will be negligent on the part of this House to abrogate that duty. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also know that the revenue flow of this country is spread throughout the year. Within the next two months, there will be no revenue equivalent of 50 per cent of the Budget for the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to spend. The other thing is that the practice world over is that nobody is so extravagant with the Budget. It is given to the extent that is necessary before approval is granted. You will realise that we have already given the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance the go ahead to spend on the Consolidated Fund Services (CFS) which amounts to about Kshs160 billion. If we give him another Kshs283 billion, this House will be left to scrutinise only Kshs283 billion. That amounts to about 32 per cent of the Budget. That will be negligent on the part of this House. Last, but not least, the Constitution says that the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance can get not more than 50 per cent of the Budget. Doing my
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second. This Motion of amendment is here to make a point that the Fiscal Management Bill has now become law. This Parliament will, therefore, not surrender its authority to the Treasury to be doing business as usual. If you look at the Standing Orders, specifically, Standing Order No.152, you will find that the moment the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance read the Financial Estimates, they stood committed to the relevant Departmental Committees automatically. These Committees are supposed to give a full report of the scrutiny of those Votes within 21 days. So, this is not what used to happen in the previous Budgets. The rules have changed. Secondly, Standing Order No.155(8) states that the last allotted date when we are supposed to carry out the Guillotine procedure is 31st August. This is different from what used to happen in the past where we would wait until December. If you look at this matter seriously, you will find that if the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance had come last year and told us that he needed half of the money because he needed to spend it by December the year that is ending, it made sense because that is what the Standing Orders stated. Sincerely speaking, right now, he requires about 25 per cent. The Mover of this Motion has said that we give the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance 30 per cent. That is in the spirit of trying to make the Treasury to look at our Standing Orders. The Treasury should know that this Parliament wants to take control of what is happening there. We no longer want to come here and say; âWe supportâ. Sometimes we could be supporting errors like it happened with the Supplementary Estimates. So, the House needs to look at this amendment in good spirit. In one monthâs time, we will be sitting in Committee of the whole House, and we will approve everything that the Minister wants. If we just give him half the amount and, already, they have taken Kshs160 billion, then we will be approving just 32 per cent, which is very little. We will just be doing procedural things. It will be business as usual. We need to move away from business as usual in the management of the funds of this country. So, in seconding this Motion, I would like to ask the House to look at these concerns. Even Mr. Ethuro, and the first person who stood up to support the Minister, which means we are also supporting him, raised the same concern, that there is a problem. Why give all the money now? What are we going to be left scrutinising? With those few remarks, I would ask the House to support this amendment, which is basically to reduce the amount from a half to 30 per cent, in good faith. In another one month, we will give him the full amount, after we have had the benefit of scrutinizing the Estimates. With those remarks, I beg to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to oppose these amendments.
Both the Mover and the Seconder have given us the real intentions of these amendments. The amendments are intended to make a point. The point is that Parliament is no longer a rubberstamp, and that Parliament is no longer an holding automaton of the Executive as far as Budget-making is concerned. The point is that it is no longer business as usual; that the end day for the Budget business is no longer 31st October, but the end day of the Budget business is 31st of August every year. Simply put, that is the whole purpose of these amendments. As Government, we accept that point. We thank the hon. Members for reminding us that things have changed, and that, indeed, it is no longer business as usual.
The hon. Members, having made that point, which we have no problem with, it is also true that, in the spirit of this House, everybody accepts that this yearâs Budget is a very revolutionary Budget. This yearâs Budget is a very popular Budget, and we all support it. Mr. Mungatana said that, indeed, come the 31st of August, we are going to give the Minister everything he is asking for. So, my issue is: If by 31st of âAugust, we are going to give everything to the Minister, because we are supporting him since we want all this money to go to the grassroots--- In fact, since his presentation of the Budget Speech, Mr. Kenyatta is being celebrated all over the country. Wananchi expect this money like yesterday. So, why should we delay it? We appreciate the point made by Mr. Ogindo. This is not a procedural matter. It is, indeed, a constitutional matter, but how did he arrive at one- third? Why not one-fifth? Why not one-quarter? This figure is arbitrary. What I am saying is, if one-third, why not one-half? What is the difference? So, so long as we accept the basic principles and say that, as Parliament, we are going to, thoroughly scrutinise this Budget, I do not think there is any point in us rejecting this Motion on the basis of one-third and one half. Let us concentrate on the true spirit of this Motion. Let us give Mr. Kenyatta the benefit of the doubt. Let us support this Motion. Let us have all this money going to our constituencies as soon as possible. The one-half is coming to my constituency. It is not going anywhere else. I would urge Mr. Ethuro, who is the Chairman of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) Committee--- These obstacles we are putting to our committees, including red tape, should be done away with. Please, let them have their own independence in dealing with the funds that go to our constituencies. As the Member of Parliament for South Imenti, I am the one who knows what my people need most, and not a Committee sitting in Nairobi or some bureaucrats sitting in Mr. Oparanyaâs office. Let Members of Parliament have a free hand in determining how the CDF funds are going to be used. With those few remarks, I beg to oppose the amendment and urge my friend to withdraw it, in the spirit of this House.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to very strongly oppose this amendment. It is only yesterday that Members of the Fiscal and Appropriations Committee sat and elected its Chairman and Vice-Chairman. I was elected the Chairman. When this
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Am I in order to ask the Chair to put the Question of the amendment now that we have heard both sides, including the Chairman of the Budget Committee?
Fair enough! I think there is need to dispose of the amendment either way.
Order, hon. Members! The amendment has been disposed of. It has been killed. We now revert to the original Motion. Mr. I. E. Mohammed, please, proceed!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support the Motion. I am glad that the amendment has been killed. It is a good thing because---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Judging from the mood of the House, would I be in order to ask that the Question be put?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The mood is in support of the Motion; however, we still need to ventilate and inform the Treasury officials who are here and the Minister, ---
Order, Mr. Ruto! Your point is very well taken. Fair enough. The Chair exercises its own discretion and allows one or two more people to contribute to the Motion! Mr. Mohammed I.E., please, proceed!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion. I am happy that the amendment was defeated because we have a major drought as I speak. Large parts of this country require emergency assistance. By delaying the Budget process, people will suffer. I also support the Motion with very clear feeling that we must put implementation as quickly as possible so that we are able to not only feed our people but also save their livestock. This is particularly in arid areas where livestock is the main-stay. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to support the Motion because as everyone else has said, this was one of the more progressive budgets. It has set the governance agenda by devolving a substantial amount of money to the grassroots. However, I want to mention an area in which the Budget fell short. This is the area of equity. Dividing resources equally across the country, in my opinion, does not mean
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance and his team to go back to their office and release this money to the constituencies. We want to take a vote on this Motion and everyone here supports that. Why are we delaying? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request you to call upon the mover to reply and then put the Question.
Order! Hon. Member, if you want the mover to be called upon to reply, you rise on a point of order! You have been in Parliament for one year and a half years. Rise on a point of order and put your case and say the mover should be called upon to reply. Mr. Baiya, please, proceed!
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am not rising on a point of order. I wish to contribute to this Motion. I want to agree with my colleague Mr. Ruto, who has just left the House, that this Motion is important and Membersâ sentiments should be given an opportunity to be put across. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion. I wish to concur with the sentiments that have been expressed by the other speakers about the peculiar nature of this yearâs Budget. Those are well noted. The Budget has also come up with very innovative suggestions. I hope that the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance will ensure that he will not stop at the level of those suggestions. We are urging him to push through those innovations, especially at the grassroots level. We have talked about the framework of the CDF which still needs to be worked on, so that we can streamline the CDF framework so that it can accommodate more resources at the grassroots. I am also in agreement with the comments by theâ
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The mood in this House, on this patriotic Budget, is that we call the Mover of this Motion to respond.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to thank my colleagues, hon. Members, and say that I have taken very seriously, the comments they have made. Indeed, I agree with the
Hon. Members, it is now time for the interruption of business. The House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 25th June, 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 5.10 p.m.