Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that two Kenyan community football clubs; AFC Leopards and SOFAPAKA, which have qualified to represent Kenya in continental championships risk failure to participate due to financial constraints? (b) What is the Minister doing urgently to arrest the above threat since the two teams have to immediately go into camp for training?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Order, Minister! You owe the House an explanation as to why you were not available last week to answer this Question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to explain to the House that on 18th November, 2009 to 26th November, 2009, I was out of the country officially to attend to functions of the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports. The answer to this Question had been prepared and I had hoped that my Assistant Ministers would have answered it. It is unfortunate that it was not done. I only arrived in the country over the weekend.
Do you, therefore, apologize to the House? You know you have to do that! It is not for the Speaker to organize and manage your Ministry. It is not for him to direct your Assistant Ministers to answer Questions if they fail to do so in your absence. You have no explanation as to why they failed to answer the Question. You, therefore, should apologize to the House and undertake to streamline things in the Ministry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will apologize to this House a second time. About four months ago, there was a Question on the Order Paper which was to be answered. My Assistant Minister could not answer it and I wrote to apologize to this House. I want to apologize again. It is unfortunate that that happened. However, I would like to undertake that this will not happen again because I have committed myself to answer all Questions directed at the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports if my colleagues are not willing to answer them. It is good for this House to know that although I have been depicted as the demon itself, I am not the kind of person that has been described in the media and other various places. I have a very clear conscience to serve the youth of this country regardless of where they come from. It does not matter even if they come from communities that are not known. I am committed to helping every youth of this country because I believe that they are the future of our great nation. In fact, I have just come from starting a match in Mathare. The match is supposed to mark the UN HIV/AIDS Day
Give us the answer!
I am going to give the answer, Mr. Khaniri!
Order, Minister! Would you, please, address the Chair?
I am sorry Mr. Speaker, Sir. I said that I am just from starting a match in Mathare where there was a Juala that has been made by the youth of this country showing the potential that our young people have. So, I would like to tell this House that I am not the person that has been described in the newspapers. I would like them to ask me questions. Let no one put words in my mouth. Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity to explain myself. Last time when we had a meeting, I was not given an opportunity to defend myself when one of my Assistant Ministers tried to show me in bad light. Now, I beg to respond.
Order, Minister! I have understood the explanation and on behalf of the House, I accept the apology. You may now proceed.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! Order, Dr. Khalwale! Let the Minister be heard!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your protection. I beg to answer. (a) The Ministry is aware that the AFC Leopards has qualified to represent the country in the Continental Cup, while SOFAPAKA Football Club (FC) has qualified to represent us in the African Cup of Champions. I take this opportunity to congratulate both teams on their well deserved victory in their respective qualification matches. I further note that SOFAPAKA FC made a historic achievement by winning the National Premier League in its very first attempt thus qualifying to represent us in the continental tournament next season. However, due to inadequate funding levels currently, the Ministry is not in a position to support community football clubs while at the same time support clubs that take part in various championships. As such, we mainly concentrate our little resources in supporting our national team in its various obligations, which we have done very effectively in our recent efforts to qualify for the 2010 FIFA World Cup and Africa Cup of Nations. (b) I note with appreciation and thank the many corporate organisations that have risen to support our various sport teams. Only a few weeks ago, SOFAPAKA FC received a handsome sponsorship package from our leading cement manufacturer, namely, East African Portland Cementâs Blue Triangle. I am sure that more of such sponsorship packages are on their way for both our teams, which performed very well in the past. These being our top teams, we shall not close the door on them. Their requests, which are yet to reach the Ministry, will be given due consideration in their own merit. I also take this opportunity to wish both teams success at their respective continental championships. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what the Minister has done is to merely congratulate SOFAPAKA FC and AFC Leopards. She has also gone ahead to pray for them to do well. The Question is about fair treatment of football clubs, just in the way the Ministry pays for volleyball, athletics and rugby teams. Why can they not pay for football clubs? Through the constituencies, the Ministry gave Kshs210 million to youth at the grassroots level to develop soccer in this country. How does she want them to grow if she does not perfect the top? So, part âbâ of the Question seeks to know how much she will pay them, and not prayers.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, prayers are important. In response to part âbâ of the Question, we are willing to support all teams. The problem is the funding levels, which are not sufficient. However, we will do our best to support them. We are willing to share the little resources that we have with teams from various federations. So, we will support them, if we can, when the requests get to the Ministry. I want to confirm that we are willing to support the development of all sports, especially football, in this country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am one of those who believe that this is a very hardworking Minister who ought to get the support of this House. Having said that, I would like her to assure this House that, in terms of encouraging sports in this country, when companies offer to sponsor sports, they will not run into difficulties similar to the ones that Coca Cola Company fell into with regard to Nyayo Stadium; and that in this
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Member for those comments because we are committed to partnership. As the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports, we are talking with Coca Cola Company. So, let no one take advantage and say that this Minister is not committed to public-private partnership. Other corporations are also welcome to support our young people.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also find the Minister very proactive compared to what I have seen before in this Ministry. Now that there are strong indications that the management team, starting with the Chairman of AFC Leopards, have either resigned, or are on their way to resigning, what will she do to make sure that there are no internal wrangles with the club, if that happens?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 5th February, 2009, I stood here and said that I had formed a reconciliation committee to try and get the two wrangling groups that had been running football in this country to come to their senses and let the youth of this country play football and, if possible, manage it. With regard to the AFC leopards, I want to beg them to come to their senses and give an opportunity to young people, who are very talented, just as I said about Peter, who manufactured the juala that got to the UN. As for the hon. Memberâs supplementary question, I will do my best to try and get these teams to work together. However, I do not want to do it now because, as everyone is aware, I have had more than enough in my plate from everybody, including the Youth Enterprise Development Fund Board whose members went to the media to demonise me. I will take care of it if God gives me the opportunity to do so.
Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Dr. Khalwale, the Member of Parliament for Nyando Constituency wants to give you some help, but he has not learnt the art of catching the Speakerâs eye.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Next time, I will make sure that I rise on time to catch your eye.
I want to thank the Minister, who means well for sports in this country. She has said she will get some money to support our champions to represent the country in the continental championships. If there could be constraints in terms of getting money to enable our footballers to go to the continental championships, could she be willing to set an account into which even we, Members of Parliament, can contribute so that these great Kenyans can represent us?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to truly thank the hon. Member, who is my âbrotherâ, for that suggestion. I am willing to open an account into which we, hon. Members, can donate what we can, so that we support our team. I want to appreciate the suggestion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I will go to my car and bring the juala that was made by the boy called âPeterâ. Let this day be a day that we, as hon. Members of this House, will go out of our way to support our young people in practice. I am willing to set up that account. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate the professor. She has told us that as soon as the AFC Leopards reaches out to her officially, she is willing to help. I want to thank her for that undertaking. I want to use this opportunity to table a copy of a letter from the Office of the Secretary-General of AFC Leopards, dated 24th November, 2009, requesting for assistance, which was delivered to her office. I am sure that the slow processes in her office are such that she has not received this letter. I would like her to act on it.
Finally, the Minister has confirmed that she is willing to set up a fund. AFC Leopards has opened an account and in fact, they are meeting on the 9th of this month to raise funds. Again, they have invited all Members of Parliament. I have circulated the letters to Members including Ministers. Here is a letter which I Table.
Order, Minister! You may not respond. This is Question Time and the Member for Ikolomani has not asked any question. He has merely Tabled documents which you will have access to. Member for Mutitu!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Medical Services the following Question by Private Notice. (a)How was the current Director, Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC) selected and could he provide the list of the shortlisted candidates and explain how the final selection was done? (b) Could the Minister explain why the former Directorâs contract was not renewed despite recommendation by the Board? (c) Could the Minister provide the report of the human resource firm contracted by the Board to interview the shortlisted candidates?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) In response to the advertisement placed in two leading local dailies by a human resources consultant firm; Hawkins and Associates, for recruitment of the Director of the Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC), a total of 43 applications were received. After evaluation by the consultant, 18 candidates qualified for the interview. Of the 18 qualified candidates, 16 attended interviews held at the consultant s offices between Thursday 14th and Saturday 23rd May this year.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, today is a very sad day yet again for this country. Kenyans have been applying for jobs expecting meritocracy to be the guiding principle for being employed. Members of the public applied for this job. They were shortlisted by a firm called Hawkins and Associates which was appointed by the Board. You have heard the names which have been Tabled here. Among the ten and the final four which the Board directed and forwarded to the Minister to appoint, he decided to ignore all the names. He appointed somebody from wherever he got him from. I would want the Minister to tell this House whether the person who is serving now is among the four who were recommended by the Board for him to appoint from. His discretion does not mean that it should be punitive. If he has any reason why he did not appoint any of the four, he should tell the House.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious issue. Is it in order for Mr. K. Kilonzo not to specify what provision of the Medical Training College Act was contravened so that the Minister can deal with the issue?
Order, hon. Members! The Member for Mutito asked a question that as far as the Chair is concerned passes the test of a question. Minister, please, respond!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I could satisfy both Mr. Olago---
Order, Minister! I have ruled Mr. Olago out of order. So, you answer the Member for Mutito!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I could satisfy the hon. Member on the issue of discretion and impunity; because he said discretion does not mean impunity. It does not! Kenya Medical Training Act, Cap.261, Section 8 says the following:- âThere shall be a Principle (read Director) of the college who shall be appointed by the Minister on the advice of the Board of Managementâ.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! We need to hear the Minister first! Dr. Khalwale I know you belong to that profession.
It says, âon the adviceâ but the Minister can choose to take or not to take the advice. I chose not to take the advice.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister is a serious professor. He has read the law very clearly to the House. He went ahead to commit funds for advertisement of this post. If he only required his discretion and not the Boardâs, why did he not use it initially and not subject the Board and taxpayersâ funds for the process?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you realize that I was very detailed in giving you information on the people who were shortlisted and the scores they had. Those scores are not there for a show. They are there to guide the Minister on whether they passed the mark or not. The Minister could easily have put a benchmark that, âI will only appoint people who score more than 80 per centâ. Yes, because I am concerned about excellence and quality.
Let me explain!
What is it, Dr. Khalwale?
On a Point of Order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister was asked to state the scores the candidates achieved in this interview. I have with me a copy of the results of the interview; they have listed all the candidates from number one to ten, showing the scores. This is my profession, and some of the candidates who are here are personally known to me. They are outstanding doctors, or minds, in this country. They include Dr. Maurice Simiyu, who was the Chairman of the Association of Medical Students of the University of Nairobi (AMSUN) when I was in the medical school. They also included Dr. Ayisi, who is my auntâs son. They scored very highly. I did not even go to influence it. The Minister went ahead and picked somebody from his home area, who never scored in this particular interview. This is the impunity we are talking about! Could he tell us how many marks this candidate of his scored in this interview? I table the results.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! You stood on a point of order. In other words, you ought to have pointed something out of the answer that the Minister had
Dr. Khalwale, there is no point of order. Order, Dr. Khalwale!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has said that he did not have to rely on the advice. Section 5 of the Act is very specific. It says that there shall be a principal of the college, who shall be appointed by the Minister on the advice of the board of management. The Minister has absolutely no discretion to appoint on his own. The Minister can reject the advice of the board, or the list, they give him, but he has to return it to the board for fresh advice. Could he tell us which specific section of the Act gave him discretion to get a list from his own head, rather than the list he got from the board?
The list did not come from my own head. The list came from the applicants to that position; the applications were received by the board. Let me go further. The board of management of the Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC) has had a lot of problems running that institution. As this process was going on, it was accompanied by the process of admitting students to that college, and it came to my attention that there was a history of mismanagement of the college by---
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Member for Gichugu?
Is he in order to go on a zigzag route and avoid answering the specific question? He said he did not have to rely on the boardâs advice: Which particular section of this law gives him discretion to appoint a person without the advice of the board? That was my specific question.
If the hon. Member for Gichugu could be patient with me, I would explain to her why the Minister did not take the advice of the board on this issue. The Minister must appoint somebody who will run the college properly. The law says that there shall be a principal of the college who shall be appointed by the Minister on the advice of the board of management. Therefore there was a process.
If you want an answer from me you have to listen. If you do not want an answer you can make noise; but you must listen---
Order, Minister! Members of Parliament do not make noise in this House. There have been several directions on this!
I apologise to Members of Parliament. If you want an answer, let me explain very properly. One of the reasons why I instituted a very elaborate process of appointing a director of the college was because of the problems that, that college has been having. As this process was going on, there was also a process of selecting students to that college. Members of this House are aware of the
What is it Dr. Khalwale?
On a point of Order. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister should not mislead the House by suggesting that he failed to appoint Dr. Maurice Simiyu and Dr. Robert Ayisi because they were serving at that college. Dr. Ayisi serves at the NASCOP, and Dr. Simiyu is a consultant in private practice. They do not work at the KMTC. He is out of order to mislead us.
Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know why Dr. Khalwale is so fixed on Dr. Simiyu and Dr. Ayisi. I was saying that I had made up my mind due to the report that I had received from EMU that I would not appoint anybody to be head of that institution who was already serving there. Secondly, other officers within the Ministry, like Dr. Simiyu and Dr. Ayisi and even Joshua Lusi, are many---
Order, Mr. Ruto! Let us hear the Minister!
If you are talking about people who are already serving in the Ministry, it was not only Dr. Simiyu or Dr. Ayisi, Dr. Joshua Lusi is also still serving in the Ministry. I think Dr. Maryanne Ndonga is also serving in the Ministry. So for those serving in the Ministry, we would have good reasons not to appoint them to head the KMTC. Having considered the kind of qualities that I needed to appoint as head of the KMTC, I believe I have appointed a qualified and competent person: Dr. Olangâo Onundi is a very qualified person. He has been a Director of Medical Services, a member of the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board, and is qualified to serve as a director of the KMTC.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has been at pains trying to explain exactly what transpired and led to the appointment of the said Director. He has said that he had in mind the causes of corruption and a report from the Efficiency Monitoring Unit (EMU). He has also said that he had made up his mind that whoever is a serving member should not be appointed. Why was that condition not attached to the advertisement so that Kenyans could not be taken for a ride to make an application, while the Minister had a fixed mind?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the English language is rather difficult. I have said that the two processes went on concurrently. So, it could not have been a condition in the advertisement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is clear that the Minister has failed to answer my question on the section of the law which allows him to bypass the Board. It is also clear that this is another appointment akin to that of Justice Ringera. Would I be in order to call upon the Committee on Delegated Legislation to take up this matter in view of the Ministerâs refusal to answer the question?
Order, hon. Members! Mr. Minister, the Chair is satisfied that you have not answered the question by Ms. Karua. She wanted you to cite a specific Section of the Act that allows you to make an appointment without the advice of the Board. Mr. Minister, you have not answered that question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think I made the appointment without the advice of the Board. The Board gave me advice and I have explained to the House that the two processes took place concurrently. I had the report of the EMU when I got that advice. I made a decision on that basis which is good for the Ministry and the college. I am prepared to appear before the Committee to explain this further.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Minister to mislead the entire country that he has power and authority to disregard a board set up by the Act which entitles him to appoint? In that case, what did we do with Justice Ringera? Did the President not have the authority to recommend regardless of what we had in mind?
What did we do with the defunct Electoral Commission of Kenya (ECK)? Did we not disregard the Constitution about removing the Commissioners? Is that the direction we want to go? Could the Minister, therefore, confirm that there is no need even for the Departmental Committees to take up this case because Ministers have impunity to do whatever they want regardless of the law?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think it is a matter of disregarding the Board. I have explained to the House, and it should bear with me that it is in the interest of the country that when we make such an appointment, the Minister finds out whether the Board is doing a good job or not. If I go into the history of the Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC); the problem of selection of candidates and the manner in which the board has been implicated in some of these things --- I decided not to dismiss the Board. I am prepared to discuss with the Departmental Committee on Health or the Committee on Delegated Legislation in detail the report of the EMU. I am also prepared to bring to the attention of the Departmental Committee on Health or the Committee on Delegated Legislation the whole history of how I have tried to restructure
Order, hon. Members! Mr. Minister, there is something that I put to you from the Chair and you have still avoided it. I think that is what has raised all this anxiety. Ms. Karua had asked why you acted without the advice of the Board. You have now interpreted it very narrowly. This question implies that you acted outside the advice given by the Board. We know that you received a report of the Board which made a recommendation, but notwithstanding that report, you appointed somebody who was not recommended in the report. So, that is what you need to deal with.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, maybe I am not putting it very clearly. But I was trying to explain to the hon. Member, and I hope the House can bear with me, that the KMTC has gone through a very tumultuous period. Let us not take the Board as having been as clean as Ceasarâs wife. It is because we were having those problems that I asked the EMU to come in and help me solve the problem. By the time the Board was giving me---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I explain? By the time the Board---
Order, Mr. Ruteere! Let the Minister be heard!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to answer Ms. Karuaâs question because she has asked me under what law I did this. My response is that I did it under Cap.261(8)(1) but one of the reasons why I did not accept those names was precisely because of the report I had from the EMU at that point in time.
What did the report say?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot go into the details of that report now. I agree with Ms. Karua. I am prepared to appear before a Committee which is a small group and go through the report of the EMU for them to see exactly what I mean. I am confident that the person that we have appointed to run the KMTC is qualified and competent and the Ministry expects him to discharge good service. One of the reasons why I decided not to dissolve the Board is because its life will come to an end this November. Thereafter, we shall constitute a new board which will carry the KMTC to a new height.
Order, hon. Members! We have spent a lot of time on this Question. This matter has to come to an end now. Mr. K. Kilonzo, please, ask the last question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, even if the Minister wanted to appoint his clansman, it required some intelligence and not just to do things like this.
If the Minister feels for Kenya and can stand the test of integrity, could he put that appointment on hold until this matter is referred to the Departmental Committee on Health and the Committee on Delegated Legislation? If he really believes that he was transparent and meant well for this organization--- We do not doubt the integrity of the person he has appointed or his competence but we doubt the methodology. It is the process which is flawed. Is the Minister willing to put the appointment on hold as he prepares to appear before the two Committees?
Order, Mr. K. Kilonzo! You have made your point! Mr. Minister, do you have any response?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the director has been duly appointed, he has signed his contract and he is working well, but I am prepared to appear before the Committee on Delegated Legislation to explain to them the lacuna between the report of the EMU and the competence of the Board at that point in time to advice me competently.
Order! Order, hon. Members! I will give directions as follows: That the request by the Member for Gichugu to have this matter referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation is acceptable, except that I do not have to give express instructions for the Committee to commence investigations. But any Committee of the House that feels that this matter is within its mandate is at liberty to commence investigations.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When this Parliament was faced with a similar challenge in the case of the appointment of hon. Ringera by the Executive, the Chair came out categorically and very clearly; that this House cannot abandon its oversight role when the Executive is seen to abuse the law. Could the Chair also use this opportunity to find that it is necessary that the appointment be set aside until Parliament has gone to the bottom of the issue?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. From the answer and on the face of it, there was discrimination. That is because Dr. Midred Mudany, who is a female, was discriminated and marginalized by the Minister. There was also Dr. Waqo Ejersa, who is from the marginalized community, who was also marginalized by the Minister. So, in your direction, I am requesting that you order the Minister to go and also face the Committee on Equal Opportunity, under Standing Order No.192. We will not have discrimination in Kenya.
Order, hon. Members! In light of the interest that this matter has attracted, I direct that the Committee on Equal Opportunity, Committee on Delegated Legislation and Committee on Health jointly commence investigations into this matter and file a report within the next four weeks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to bring to your attention the fact that I have not received a written reply. However, I beg to ask the Minister for Roads the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Why has the road leading to Masalani-Hola Bridge from Hola side not been constructed despite the bridge having been completed and officially inaugurated in 2007? (b) What plans does the Ministry have to make Masalani-Hola Bridge accessible from both sides, particularly from the Hola side?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize to the hon. Member if she has not received a written answer. I will ensure that I give her a copy of the answer. However, I beg to reply. (a) Following the completion of the Masalani-Hola Bridge, the Ministry recognizes the need to improve the Hola-Masalani Road in order to make it accessible throughout the year, especially, during the rainy season. That has, however, not been possible due to budgetary constraints. (b) The approach road on both sides of the bridge will be prioritized for improvement in the financial year 2010/2011. Tenders for the design to build the Masalani Bridge approaches were advertized in the year 2008. Bids were received and evaluated, but the contract could not be awarded due to budgetary constraints occasioned by the high number of ongoing projects under the development account.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since I told you that I did not get a written response and the hon. Members were consulting loudly, I did not get what the Assistant Minister has said. However, the purpose of starting a project is to achieve the desired end results. But here is a project â Masalani-Hola Bridge â which was started seven years ago and officially inaugurated in 2007 by none other than His Excellency the President of this country. The hope of the people of Ijara was raised. They finally thought that they could see the light at end of the tunnel, but that was false hope. That bridge was heavily funded using taxpayersâ money and it is not accessible.
Ask your question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister answer my second question as to when the project will be completed.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. With due respect to hon. Noor â and she is elegantly dressed - she has covered her ears. How does she expect to hear?
Order! Hon. Noor, is that by any chance the explanation as to why you were unable to hear the reply; that your ears are covered?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just heard what you have said. That is a wrong allegation against me. I have covered my ears, but I am hearing. I need your protection over this!
Hon. Ogindo, you owe the hon. Member an apology!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologize.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Haji! Let that matter rest where it is. I know that, that is a decent dress in the Islamic community and I guess that is where you want to go. Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to repeat the answer, given that the hon. Member has indicated that she did not hear it. (a) Following the completion of the Masalani-Hola Bridge, the Ministry recognizes the need to improve the Hola-Masalani Road in order to make it accessible throughout the year, especially, during the rainy season. That has, however, not been possible due to budgetary constraints. (b) The approach roads on both sides of the bridge will be prioritized for financing in the financial year 2010/2011. Tenders for the design to build Masalani Bridge approaches were advertized in the year 2008. Bids were received and evaluated, but the contract could not be awarded due to budgetary constraints occasioned by the high number of ongoing projects under the development account.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister seems to treat the Question in a very trivial manner. That project was inaugurated in 2007 by the President. When the Government was designing it, the idea was to have a complete set. The intention was to connect North Eastern Province to Coast Province from Ijara. I want to know from the Assistant Minister what happened to the funds that were allocated for that project, before you start seeking for more.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to the best of my knowledge, we had not set aside any money for the completion of the road. It was a bridge. I have already indicated that we have finished with the design work and opened the tenders. We will be prioritizing it in the next financial year. My Ministry considers that section of the road to be an important link to North Eastern. I want to assure hon. Members that, indeed, we will factor it in next yearâs budget.
Last question, hon. Noor!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request the Assistant Minister to physically go and see that project. That is because it was completed and approved by the engineers on the ground according to the report that came to him. Since there was poor workmanship on the project, could the Assistant Minister and his technocrats physically go and inspect the project? After that, you can understand and tender for the project. When are you going to physically inspect the project because I know that you were given the wrong information?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I welcome the request from the hon. Member to visit that project and, indeed, at the Ministry level, we will ensure that we dispatch a team to visit the site. But, I am not able to give a clear date. But at least, within sixty days that can be done.
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) to reveal the identity of the two contractors awarded the contract to patch up Kisumu-Kakamega road as well as the criteria used to select them; (b) the respective contract sums for the two sections (Kisumu- Chavakali and Chavakali-Kakamega); and, (c) the action he will take against the contractors, especially the one at the Kisumu-Chavakali Section, in view of the shoddy work done, which is peeling off even before completion of the works.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Kisumu-Chavakali section of the road was awarded to M/s Wallukat Investments, while the Chavakali-Webuye section was awarded to M/s Tai Enterprises Limited. The criteria used in the selection of contractors was post-qualification of Regional Term Contracts (PQRTC). (b) The contractor sum for the Kisumu-Chavakali section is Kshs84,680,615, while the sum for the Chavakali-Webuye section is Kshs122,976,498. (c) The two contractors were procured to undertake emergency repair because the road was in a deteriorating state. The contractors carried out the works as specified in the contract.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have got very serious concerns about this Question, particularly part âcâ of the answer because the Assistant Minister has not satisfactorily answered it. One, the selection of the contractors by the Post-Qualification Regional Term Contracts (PQRTC) is causing a lot of favouritism. Two, anybody using that road knows very well that the workmanship from Kisumu to Chavakali is totally different from the workmanship beyond those two places. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Assistant Minister says that the contractors carried out the work as specified in the contract, he is implying that either there is something amiss about the specification or something is totally wrong about the contract. The money that has been spent on this road was not worth it. The road started peeling off even before a kilometre was done. What is the Ministry doing about the contractor who did a shoddy job, particularly the one from Kisumu to Chavakali? I am told that the same contractors are being awarded the job from Luanda to Majengo and the work is not being done. The same thing is happening on the road from Chavakali to Kapsabet.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I share the concerns raised by the hon. Member. But I wish to state clearly that the contract clearly specified that we were doing emergency repair to make the road motorable. We were not reconstructing the roads and I want to---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is saying that they were doing emergency repairs. Why are the emergency repairs from Kisumu to Chavakali done differently from the ones from Chavakali to Webuye?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to assure the hon. Member that the report we have clearly states and, I would like to say that, the work which was specifically given to the contractor, included the following: Excavation and cleaning of drains of the existing culverts, grading, processing and gravelling of shoulders; base and sub-base repairs, and patching with asphalt concrete. That does not include reconstruction of the road. I want to clearly note that, I have stated the different amounts for the specific roads; and if you look at the amounts and the distance we are talking about, this money was just for emergency repairs. However, I want to assure the hon. Member that the design work for that road is complete and we will ensure that we start the reconstruction of that road, just like we are doing with the Mau Summit-Kericho Road, where we did the emergency repairs last year. This year, we have already sent a contractor to rebuild the whole road.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to completely avoid answering part âcâ of this Question which states, âeven if the contractor was given emergency works to do, how come that the road is peeling off even before the work is completed?â
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reports that we have are that, the time when we gave out the work, like I have said, it included patching up with asphalt concretes where the potholes were. But, since then many others have emerged. I want to assure the House that our team of engineers has clearly said that what we gave out as work to be done has, indeed, been done. But, if that report is not accurate, I will send another team of officers to verify that position as stated by the hon. Members.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Assistant Minister is still avoiding the Question. The works that were actually designed by the Ministry have not been done. The culverts were not cleared, the shoulders were not addressed. Could we hear from the Assistant Minister how Kshs84,680,615 was spent on that stretch of the road, because already this road has very big gaping holes in less than three months?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have indicated that the report that we have from the resident engineer is that the works, as I have read them out, were actually done. However, as indicated to this House, if indeed, there is a contradiction between the report we have and what is on the ground, as hon. Members have indicated; we will be able to report to this House and, indeed, communicate to the hon. Members.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we use that road every day. The Assistant Minister has not been very clear and we would like to invite him to come and see that road. Is he ready to come this weekend so that we can look at the road and the work done?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not have any problem visiting that part of the country and, as I have indicated, we will indeed, be able to do that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a serious disconnect between what the Assistant Minister is telling us and what they are getting from the officers. One of the reasons is that the engineers are the ones who are contractors. What is the Assistant Minister doing to ensure that the Ministry has proper linkages in terms of the information
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of any engineers who are also contractors. But, indeed, if there are any engineers who are working for the Ministry and who also have their private constructing firms, we will like to take immediate action. However, I also want to take this opportunity to assure the hon. Member that whenever there is a disconnect between the reports we get and what is on the ground, my Ministry has been on the forefront to ensure that we visit the actual roads and the constituencies. For instance, yesterday we were in Bomet and many of the others roads within that larger constituency. So, I take the concerns raised by the hon. Member and we will take the necessary action.
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! You were asked to indicate when you will visit the site. When will you do so?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will consult with the Ministry, but within sixty days.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We are going to have the next visit within sixty days---
Order, Mr. Shakeel! You asked the question and you received an answer. You asked the Assistant Minister to indicate when he will visit the road. The Assistant Minister has said he will do so within the next sixty days, so you have an answer! You cannot complain. Next Question by the hon. Member for Eldama Ravine!
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) to table the details of surplus collections and interest income of the Fuel Levy Funds for the year 2006/07, 2007/08, 2008/09 as well as the beneficiaries of the above surplus; and, (b) to clarify whether the above distribution conforms to the requirements of the Kenya Roads Board Act.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to reply. (a) I would like to lay on the Table a list of details containing surplus collections and interest income of the Fuel Levy Fund for the Financial years 2006/2007, 2007/2008 and 2008/2009 as well as the beneficiaries of the same.
(b) I confirm that the surplus collections and the interests for the financial years 2006/2007 and 2007/2008 were distributed to various roads agencies as per the Kenya Roads Board Act distribution criteria and the Kenya Roads Act, 2007. The surplus
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for that brief answer. In terms of what the Assistant Minister has laid on the Table - and which he has given me a copy - this is a global distribution. Could he give us further details by explaining to us exactly how much each constituency got and how much each district got?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the concerns of the hon. Member, that is clearly a different question. He did not ask for the details that he is asking for now. However, I can avail those details to the hon. Member at the earliest possible opportunity.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That is not a different question.
Order, Mr. Lessonet. Please, resume your seat. You have, in part (a) of your Question, asked the Minister to lay on the Table the details of the collections. The Assistant Minister has complied by laying on the Table those details. The supplementary question is different in the sense that in the original Question, you did not ask the Assistant Minister to give the details as per the constituency or district. So, to that extent, it is different. So, unless the Assistant Minister had equipped himself with that information, he is justified in asserting that it is different. Could you, please, ask the last question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I still want to insist that, that is not a different question.
Order, Mr. Lessonet! You want to insist, notwithstanding my directions?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what to call it, but just allow me to try and explain that it is not a different question. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a different question because we cannot have a beneficiary called MOR constituency. We can only have a beneficiary in the name of either a constituency or a district.
Mr. Lessonet, could you, please, ask your last question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will file another Question, if I must do that. However, for now, in terms of the 2008/2009, which the Assistant Minister has said that he is not yet through with the calculations, once he is through, will he distribute as per the Act that was amended last week on Thursday or you are going to use the old Act?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I answer that question, I would like to quote the Act that gives the Ministry the criteria to distribute the money. That is the Act that the hon. Member has referred to. The Act says that based on a five year road investment programme, the Ministry of Roads shall collect funds from the Kenya Roads Board. Section 1 says that 20 per cent of the money from the Fund is allocated equally to all constituencies in the country to be administered by the Rural Roads Authority. (c) 12 per cent of the monies from the Fund is collected and distributed to districts in respect of rural roads which are administered by the Rural Roads Authority. So, it does not go as per the constituency or per district. I want to invite the hon. Member to look at that. With regard to the last question, he has asked whether the amounts that have not yet been distributed will be distributed in accordance with the new law that came into effect
asked the Minister for Housing what action he is taking to assist Kenyans who are unable to obtain housing loans from commercial banks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. My Ministry recognizes that there are several reasons why many Kenyans are unable to obtain housing loans from financial institutions and commercial banks. The Ministry has identified and summarized these challenges and recommended incentives and re-engineering measures that need to be implemented to make housing more affordable. To this end, the following incentives and initiatives are being undertaken. The Retirement Benefits Act has been amended to allow retiring members assign their benefits for mortgage purposes as this will take away the burden of security from borrowers. The limit on deposits whose interest is exempt from tax has been increased to a maximum of Kshs3 million for savings under the Home Ownership Savings Plan. We are also urging banks and financial institutions to allow multi-generational mortgages as this will increase the repayment period and reduce the monthly repayment, hence, making housing loans more affordable. Additionally, we are still negotiating with the Ministry of Finance with a view to establishing a guarantee scheme and tax concessions to promote enhanced utilization of micro-finance institutions for savings mobilization and extending of credit to low income urban households. The Government, through prudential regulations, is looking into ways and means to cause financial institutions to give more favourable terms to home savings accounts. Finally, the Government is also trying to take the initiative in the establishment and capitalization of the public/private owned mortgage insurance institutions for credit enhancement to low income households.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for an excellent answer. Considering that we have 5.4 million people in this country living in slums and informal settlements, what is the Governmentâs direct role in giving incentives to co-operatives, private foundations and NGOs to direct more resources to the housing market?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is trying to help households living in the slum areas by mobilizing them into co-operative societies so that they can access housing. For example, the Government has helped to establish about 35 co- operative societies in the slum area of Kibera with a view to enabling members of those co-operatives to own the houses that the Government is coming up with in those areas. Mr. Speaker, Sir, more importantly, the Government is trying other interventions through public-private partnerships. In fact, we have advertised a public-private partnership whose tender was opened yesterday for the Kibera Slums. We want to engage
Mr. Speaker, Sir, every great country like Kenya has a master-plan for the provision of affordable housing to its citizens, particularly the ones who live in the slums. What is the Ministryâs master-plan in respect to the provision of housing to low income earners in Kenya as a national policy?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have a slum master-plan that was developed after the Sessional Paper on Housing was passed in this House in 2004. Our projection, as a Ministry, is that we should have housed most of the people who live in informal settlement not just in Nairobi but in all our urban areas by 2020. We are doing this in collaboration with the UN Habitat in conformity with the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) target of trying to house the 5.4 million Kenyans who live in informal settlements.
Ask the last question, Mr. Lekuton.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister again. Considering the fact that housing in this country is in a crisis, and considering the fact that countries like India and Bangladesh have developed a research unit within the concerned Ministry, is the Government willing to start a research unit that will not only make people afford homes but also make them access cheap building materials?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my Ministry is in the process of putting up an appropriate building technology centre in Mlolongo. Its construction commenced a few weeks ago. This is phase one of the centre that will cost about Kshs130 million. We intend to collaborate with research institutions to come up with different forms of building materials in the centre. At the same time, we have a draft Bill that will be brought before this House soon. We have proposed major changes to the existing building code which confines building technology to brick and mortar. We want to open up so that we can apply other forms of technologies that can avail houses to many Kenyans.
asked the Minister of State for Special Programmes:- (a) whether she is aware that there are thousands of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who have been camping in the Kyeni Forest, Gatundu North Constituency for 17 years, following the 1992 post- election violence; (b) what measures she is taking to ensure that they are resettled in their original homes or given alternative land so that they may rebuild their lives and when it will be done; and, (c) when she will also resettle hundreds of other IDPs affected by the 2007 post-election violence in various camps in Gatundu North
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware that there are thousands of IDPs who have been camping in Kyeni Forest, Gatundu North Constituency, for 17 years following the 1992 post-election violence. (b) My Ministry has not taken any measures towards resettling the said IDPs. The mandate of the Ministry in resettling the IDPs is limited to those affected in the 2007 post-election violence as per Legal Notice No.11 of 30th January, 2008. (c) My Ministry does not have records of the IDPs affected by the 2007 post- election violence from Gatundu North Constituency. All registers of the IDPs were closed on 31st December, 2008. However, according to the list of 1,195 households laid in Parliament by the hon. Member, 149 families are confirmed to be IDPs and 13 families are confirmed to have been paid Kshs10,000 while another 23 families have been confirmed to have been paid and yet they are not registered as IDPs. The balance of 1,046 households in the list are squatters emanating from the 1992 post-election violence as confirmed by the District Commissioner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister is again misleading this House the way she did last time. She has said that she is limited to resettling the IDPs from the 2007 post-election violence. Is it lack of a clear Government policy on resettlement or an indication that this Government has failed to resettle the IDPs who were affected in the previous years?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we can only take care of Kenyans who have been displaced as we have been mandated. Do we still refer to people who have been in a place for 17years as IDPs or squatters? I get confused by the two terms.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the answer the Minister has given, could she organise a similar harambee and invite the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance as they did for the people evicted from Mau Forest to resettle the people of Gatundu?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been invited to many harambees . It is the duty of the hon. Member for Gatundu North, if he so wishes, to invite us and we will be there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is good to note that the Minister is answering the Question today. This Question was deferred last week so that the Minister could go and look at the list that was laid on the Table by the hon. Member for Gatundu North. I have not heard her make any mention to that list other than confirm that there are IDPs in Gatundu. Could she tell the House the findings from the report laid on the Table by the hon. Member for Gatundu North?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we went through our IT system to check whether the list of 1,195 households that the hon. Member laid on the Table comprised of the IDPs. Out of the 1,195 households, 149 were found to be IDPs but were registered elsewhere. Those IDPs were not registered in Gatundu because we have not been given a list from there. Again, from that list, 13 households had received funds for the resettlement of the IDPs.
Are you repeating the answer that you gave earlier on?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That is for the benefit of the hon. Member who has asked the question.
You do not have to do that. Mr. Imanyara ought to have been listening!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am shocked by the Ministerâs answer that she is not aware of any displaced persons camping in Gatundu North Constituency. The clashes of 1992 were of public notoriety. The act of the Government of the day at that time of dumping the IDPs from the Rift Valley in a lorry at Kirigiti Stadium in Kiambu is also a matter that received public notoriety. It is some of those IDPs that now camp at Gatundu. What has the Minister done to identify the IDPs of 1992 clashes? What has the Government done to ensure that those people are resettled; recover their lost farms, some of which they had title deeds and generally, provide for the squatters?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the exercise of identifying and resettling all other IDPs, except the 2007 ones, will require funding. At the moment, the only funds that have been availed to us, are for the resettlement of 2007 IDPs as per the legal notice. I have so far asked for further mandate and instructions on whether we should deal with anybody who was displaced prior to 2007. Even after 2007, there are other people who have been displaced for other reasons. Apart from election violence, there are others who have been displaced because of conflict, drought and El Nino . So, it is a long list. We would require to be given further mandate to be able to deal with those ones.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want the Minister to clarify whether it is in order for the Government to discriminate IDPs merely on the basis that they were displaced prior to 2007?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we were to deal with only the issue of IDPs in this country, most likely we would stop all the other programmes. However, I believe that we can deal with them in phases. The rest of the IDPs and squatters will be dealt with in phases.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, going by the Ministerâs answer and considering the number of IDPs in this country, when does the Government intend to develop a comprehensive policy and legislation dealing with IDPs?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in partnership with the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs and UN agencies we are in the process of developing a policy for IDPs.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the last time this Question came up, the hon. Minister alleged that some politicians dream and come up with IDPs list and say that those are genuine IDPs. I wish to request that the hon. Minister withdraws that statement because no hon. Member of Parliament here can dream and come up with a list of IDPs.
Secondly, she has already admitted that these people are IDPs by compensating 13 of them. She says 23 of them are genuine IDPs. I am wondering on what basis the Minister can say some people are IDPs while others are not.
Finally, there is Nyayo Tea Zone next to these people who are landless and it was actually envisaged that these IDPs would be settled there. Madam Minister, what will you do to ensure that these IDPs are allocated that land?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as for politicians coming up with lists, it is a fact. Even 149 people out of these, are people who have been registered elsewhere and yet this
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The list is not just from politicians. First of all, in this House, we are not just politicians, we are hon. Members of Parliament.
Order, Eng. Maina! As a matter fact, the Chair let that pass, but the Minister was so rational as to give you a response. But you do not complain about a matter several days after it has transpired. So, if that is your point of order now, it is actually not valid.
Not really, Mr. Speaker, Sir!
Order, Eng. Maina! That point of order is not valid for the reasons I have given.
Madam Minister, proceed!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the mandate of resettling anybody who has been living next to the Nyayo Tea Zones or wherever they have been living, is with the Ministry of Lands. They have a department which actually deals with resettlement. There is a Director of Resettlement whose duty is just to make sure that most of the squatters in this country are resettled.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have had displaced people in this country right from the time we got Independence; right from the Shifta War, Wagalla Massacre, droughts, problems that are there between the Pokots and Marakwets and others up to what is happening right now in Isiolo. Could the Minister assure us that the hundreds of thousands of Kenyans who have never been assisted as IDPs in the past will now be included in the master-plan she will come up for assisting and helping the IDPs in this country?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, most of the Kenyans have been displaced at one time or another; some by flash floods, conflicts, droughts, among other reasons. Resettlement is something which requires a lot of funding. That is why I have asked for specific mandate to be allowed to go back and register all the other people, so that the Government can come up with funds for resettlement of all other IDPs.
Last question, Member for Gatundu North!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, although I am not satisfied with the answer, I would like the Minister herself to accompany me to Kyeni Forest and see the pathetic situation these people are living in. They live in the cold forest of Kyeni. Could the Minister tell us when she can visit these people?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is one of my mandates to go and check who lives in Kyeni Forest. Since the hon. Member has basically put an official request, I will accompany him to his constituency and visit all the people who require assistance from the Government.
Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Question Time. We have run out of time. Questions Nos.106, 417 and 441 are deferred to tomorrow afternoon. The balance of Questions will be deferred to Thursday afternoon. In both cases, they will take priority over Questions due then.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There were Questions that were deferred last week to tomorrow. Which ones will come first, is it the ones that were deferred last week or the ones that were deferred today? I think there is a bit of confusion.
My directions are clear that the Questions deferred this afternoon to tomorrow afternoon and Thursday afternoon respectively will take priority over Questions due then. Good English!
Proceed, next Order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to request a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Co-operative Development and Marketing regarding employment of Mr. Mwangi, who is the Managing Director of the New KCC. Mr. Mwangi has performed quite well. As it stands now, the Minister intends to terminate Mr. Mwangiâs services. This is a man who the farmers have confidence in. He has taken the New KCC from the woods where it was a loss making organization to a profit making organization. These are not the kind of things expected from a good Government that is out to uplift the economy of this country.
I, therefore, wish to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister regarding why the contract of Mr. Mwangi should not be extended. We have already seen the saga of Ministers wishing to appoint their kinsmen to senior positions.
Mr. Shitanda, when will you have that Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will inform the Minister to come and issue a Statement maybe on Thursday afternoon.
The Chair so directs!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last week, the Minister for Roads promised to deliver today a Ministerial Statement on the status of Eldoret-Chavakali Road.
Yes, the Chair remembers that very well. Where is the Minister for Roads?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last Tuesday, I requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security on the rising insecurity in Migori and he promised that he will give an answer today. I wonder whether one of the Assistant Ministers is here to deliver that particular Statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, people are being butchered there. In fact, the situation is so bad---
Order! Order! Minister, do you have a Ministerial Statement for the same?
Order, Assistant Minister! Could we have hon. Members who want to seek Ministerial Statements do so now before Ministers issue Statements? Hon. Baiya? Are you seeking a Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not seeking a Ministerial Statement; I sought a Ministerial Statement last week but one from the Ministry of Education concerning the directive by the Ministry on the syllabus on secondary schools, specifically about the sciences---
Order! Wait and see whether the Minister is available with the Ministerial Statement or not. You do not pre-empt! Yes, can we have the Ministers now?
Order! Order, Mr. Olago! I know you sought a Ministerial Statement!
It is something else, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Okay, what is your point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, apart from the Statement that I expect from the Minister of State for Special Programmes, on the 19th of August, I asked the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs why the Chief Justice had failed to issue delegated legislation. Hon. Cheptumo was here at that time and he promised to deliver the Statement on the 26th of August, but up to now, he has not. This is number 18 on the tracker; overdue Statements, page 4.
Is there a Minister who can take an undertaking on behalf of the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs?
Order, Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs! When your Ministry has some Business to do in the House and execute its own mandate, you should be listening to hon. Members!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg for your indulgence. I was listening to the hon. Member and I apologize. Could, he perhaps repeat the question?
Hon. Olago, could you repeat that?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had two requests for Ministerial Statements from the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs. The first was on the 19th of August, on why the Chief Justice had failed to issue delegated legislation in respect of sexual offences. The other one, on the 25th of June, was on the state of funding for the GJLOS programme.
Okay, hon. Minister, you heard that!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg your indulgence to make a Ministerial Statements on those issues on Wednesday next week, if you permit me.
Indeed, you have to apologize to the House because you were supposed to have done this much earlier!
As a matter of fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is the first time that I am aware of the issue pertaining to regulations to be made by the Chief Justice and I apologize if that would make the Chair happy, because it is very important.
It is not going to make the Chair happy!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Actually I am a very serious man. I undertake to make those Statements, because they are issues very close to my heart; both GJLOS as well as the regulations, on Wednesday next week so that I can be thorough in my usual manner.
Wednesday morning next week?
I can do it on Wednesday morning if
That is fair enough. The Chair so directs!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On the same note, could he also remember to give a Statement regarding the situation at the Nakuru Law Courts, because the Ministerial Statement was to be issued today?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministerial Statement on Nakuru High Court, if my learned friend allows, I propose to make it on Thursday this week. It is under preparation and I want to be thorough.
It is so directed! Dr. Shaban, could you make your Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 18th of November, 2009, the hon. Member for Kisumu Town West, hon. John Olago Aluoch, requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Special Programmes, on the issue of the ongoing evictions from the Mau Forest and the apparent problems affecting the people evicted pertaining to shelter and food sustenance. In the Statement, he wanted us to address ourselves to:- (a) What steps the Minister has taken to ensure timely delivery of food and shelter to those evicted; and, (b) Why the Ministry staffers are unwilling or are not ready to work proactively and promptly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Mau Forest reclamation operation is a national exercise and my Ministry is not the lead Ministry but one among many Ministries and Government agencies with responsibilities to assist the evictees. The planning of the evictions of the Mau illegal settlers is being undertaken by the Interim Co-ordinating Committee under the Prime Ministerâs Office. A detailed plan of action has been prepared by this Committee allocating various tasks to Ministries to respond to any humanitarian needs that may arise due to the evictions. Under the plan, the Ministry of
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the explanation by the Minister. However, the clarification I would wish to seek is this: Now that the debate on the evacuation from the Mau Forest is taking a different turn and looking political, what steps is the Ministry taking to ensure that humanitarian efforts are truly directed to the evictees and that they are taken where they ought to be?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, towards the end of last week, I was given a further mandate as far as these evictees are concerned. I will be visiting the area tomorrow. Since the profiling exercise is going on, we are going to make sure that the evictees are resettled so that they can join other Kenyans in the development of this country.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I remember well, the Minister attended a
organized for these people we are talking about. I am wondering why the Minister could not have got money from the Government to support these people instead of going for the Harambee that we saw last weekend.
Order, Mr. Pesa! Order! You are supposed to seek clarifications on the content of the Ministerâs Statement. She did not talk of a Harambee that she was part of or organized. Mr. Njuguna, are you seeking clarification?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to ask a question.
Mr. Njuguna, you cannot ask a question. You are supposed to seek clarification. We are on a Ministerial Statement!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be within that range.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to clarify when the Ministry is going to extend immediate humanitarian assistance to the Mau Forest evictees who are currently residing by the roadside. These people have children and are suffering for lack of any shelter.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to the profiling exercise that is going now, does the Minister not think that the profiling should have been done before they were removed from the forest? That way, we would not have them by the roadside. In fact, we would have really known who the genuine squatter is. We would also be in a position to know who is supposed to go back to Bureti or Bomet and who is to stay in the forest.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, the Minister together with her colleagues in the Prime Ministerâs Office sought to clarify through the media the status of the evictees. She is now talking about going there tomorrow. Could she clarify, therefore, if the information that we were given by the Task Force and those in charge, including the DCs on the ground, is faulty and that she is, indeed, going to find out whether this issue is pertinent or has been politicized?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I heard the Minister correctly, she said that on 14th November, 2009, her officers had already dispatched food. She even cited the number of lorries that were used. The information that we are getting from the public is that there is no food. In fact, there were pictures of women and children suffering by the roadside. Could the Minister clarify what happened between the date that her Ministry is supposed to have delivered the food to about the date this Ministerial Statement was raised?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister said that she will be touring the area as a result of a fresh mandate. Could she tell us what the terms of the fresh mandate are? Could she also tell us why it was necessary to issue fresh mandate when we are in the process of evicting the people who are living in the Mau Forest?
Our Ministry, together with other Members of Parliament, has been doing Harambees . We did one for the IDPs sometime in May, 2008. We did another one in February, 2009, for the Sachangwan fire victims. We conducted a third Harambee for the people of Faza Island in September, 2009. So, this was just one Harambee amongst many and there is no reason for it to be a political issue because we have done Harambees for other Kenyans. As these people were leaving the Mau Complex, the officers of the Forestry Service did a profiling exercise. However, it is only normal for us to go and countercheck and verify. This is because when we were dealing with the people camping at the roadside, we found out the numbers were bigger than the numbers we were given by the people who had conducted the exercise in the forest. It is, therefore, important for us to harmonize and get to know where the other people are coming from. Whereas the Forestry Service was telling us that they were dealing with 1,693 families, the list which is out there now is beyond 5,000 families. We needed to harmonize the lists so that we know the genuine people who came from the Mau Forest. Once these people left the forest, they were no longer being assisted by the officers of the Forestry Service. Once they are out there, it is for our Ministry to take over. That is why we were given instructions from the Prime Ministerâs Office to go and ensure that the lists are harmonized. After that, we will deal with the matter. That way,
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not hear the Minister clarifying my point. As at the date she has given us, she has told us that her Ministry had delivered food to women and children worth Kshs7 million. There was absolutely no food on the ground. Was there somebody hoarding that food for whatever reason?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we usually distribute food to the people through the DCs. I said earlier on that the food was distributed to three different districts. The information from the ground is that some of these people belong to Bureti and that some of them are going to relocate to Bomet. The final list was for people who will be going to Kuresoi. So, because of that and the distribution that we had done, there was a lot of confusion. The numbers were too huge and the Provincial Administration was taking their time to reprofile again. That is what they were trying to do so that they could establish that they were taking care of people who had come from the forest only.
The Assistant Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security! Can you give your Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 24th November, 2009, hon. John Pesa, Member of Parliament for Migori rose on a point of order to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security on insecurity in Migori Municipality and surrounding areas, particularly towards the last weeks of the month. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the five incidents of attacks which have been reported to the police as follows: On 6th November, 2009, Mr. Gordon Odhiambo, a motorcycle operator was attacked together with his passenger. On the same day, a pedal cyclist, John Njuguna, was also attacked. On 14th November, 2009, Mr. Gerald Okinyi Omondi was shot dead by unknown persons. On 22nd November, 2009, Mr. Maxwell Onyango Opiyo and his wife were attacked and injured. On the 23rd November, unknown number of persons attacked and injured Mr. Amweya Mayonga. His son and wife were also injured in the incident. Nothing was stolen from the victims of the mentioned attacks. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, preliminary investigations indicate that in some of the incidences, there may be business rivalry motivating the attacks. Police have arrested three prime suspects who are assisting with investigations. To curb the insecurity incidences, the following measures have been taken: (i) A special crime prevention unit personnel has been dispatched to Migori where three people have been arrested and an AK47 Rifle with 24 rounds of ammunition recovered; (ii) police in Migori are working in liaison with their counterparts in Kuria to seal the escape routes used by the attackers;
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has tried his best to, at least, answer this Question. However, I still need some clarifications in the following areas:- I would like him to clarify as to how security personnel without vehicles will manage places that are prone to thugery in Migori Municipality, especially Ragana Ward, where most of the cases have taken place. If you watched KTN news on Sunday and Monday, you should have noticed that the brutality with which women and children were attached in Migori was really appalling. Could he also clarify on the composition of the three senior-most security personnel in Migori who are charged with the management of security in that area? Finally, could he visit Migori as soon as possible to assess the situation for himself, especially when the victims are still in hospital, and see the kind of brutality that the people of Migori are being subjected to by thugs. I believe he will appreciate for himself that measures have to be taken immediately to bring back security and faith to Migori residents in the police force and the Government of Kenya. People will now be forced to take the law into their own hands, which happened last week, where two people were killed. The third person was killed on Monday. The way the Government is taking the issue of insecurity in Migori leaves a lot to be desired. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Assistant Minister to clarify to this House why Kenyans have always to be killed, in various parts of the country, when we have security agents. What has happened to the process of getting information in advance, which they used to have, so that they can forestall the occurrence of such an act before it takes place?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the way these murders were carried out in Migori is a bit suspicious. If the cause is business rivalry, one would have expected that it would involve only mature or senior people in the society. Where children and women are attacked, there must be a different motive or objective behind these murders. Could the Assistant Minister confirm to us that they are still carrying out a thorough investigation to unearth the main motive behind these killings?
Could you now respond, Mr. Assistant Minister?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, starting with the issues raised by Mr. Mbadi, I would agree that he may be right in saying that the circumstances of the murders are suspicious. Indeed, one of the views is that this could possibly be due to the question of business rivalry, but as I said, investigations are still being carried out. Indeed, the hon. Member is supporting that point of view. So, we will continue to
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is one important question that the Assistant Minster has not answered, which is what is actually bringing a lot of rumours in Migori. I wanted to know the three top persons managing security in Migori. Who are they? Why must they stay there any longer?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the details of those three personnel right now, but if the hon. Member has any information as to their deficiencies, I am willing to investigate and discuss their suitability. As of now, I do not have those details since that was not amongst the issues raised when this Ministerial Statement was sought.
Minister for Education!
He is not yet in!
Hon. Mwatela, are you not the Assistant Minister for Education?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg for your indulgence.
Proceed, if you have the Ministerial Statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg for the indulgence of the House. The matter on which the Member of Parliament for Githunguri Constituency sought a Ministerial Statement is, indeed, serious and of urgent nature. However, I would like to beg for more time, so that I can give a comprehensive and thorough Ministerial Statement. May I request that we be given up to Thursday, 10th December, 2009?
What is your reaction, Mr. Baiya?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for acknowledging that the issue is urgent and important. I have no problem in indulging him
Mr. Assistant Minister, you said that you recognise the urgency of the matter and then you want to give yourself another eight days from today! Where is your recognition of urgency in this case? Can you bring the Ministerial Statement on Thursday afternoon? Mr. Baiya will not be around the whole of next week. If my memory serves me right, the issue is about how students are going to prepare themselves for examinations. It is a very urgent matter.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why I said it is very grave. It is of urgent nature. It actually involves the entire planning aspect of education. The matter revolves around the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC). It also touches on the Kenya Institute of Education (KIE). The Minister is out of the country. So, I would like to give an undertaking that we will have the Ministerial Statement by 10th November, 2009. If that date is not convenient to the hon. Member, we can issue the Ministerial Statement in the following week, on Tuesday. Issuing it earlier than that will be a bit difficult.
Hon. Questioner, are you away for the rest of next week?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I can possibly consult the Chairman of the Committee to ensure that the matter is dealt with.
The Chair directs that this Ministerial Statement be made available on Wednesday next week in the afternoon and not on Thursday. The Chair has a reason as to why it is so determined! Fair enough! It is directed that you have the Ministerial Statement available on Wednesday afternoon.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate you direction.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology is telling me that he is also not available next week. I think we can only do that the week after next week. It could be done this Thursday or the week after next week.
You realize it is a very serious matter and in the event that this House adjourns sometimes in December, we will not be back again until March. How much are you going to disadvantage students in Kenya in the process? I mean, the Chair is also a parent!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is my view that the Ministry needs to take drastic measures to correct the anomaly because I think there is an anomaly. That is why we would like to have ample time.
Fair enough! The Chair directs that you have the Ministerial Statement on Thursday. Hon. Questioner and Chairman of the Committee will have to consult other Members of Parliament so that they can prosecute the matter. The matter is not exclusive to you! All Members of Parliament have an interest in this and I am satisfied that they will be able to prosecute it very well. So, it will be brought on Thursday, next week. Next Order!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Ministry of Roads and you have not given direction. Could you help me?
Oh yes! The Minister for Roads was supposed to issue a Ministerial Statement today. In view of the fact that he is not around, could another Minister make an undertaking? Much as the Chair takes note that the Government side is not serious at all in executing its mandate and responsibility to Parliament, could another Minister make an undertaking.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could I give an undertaking for Thursday next week?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I rose on a point of order last week, the Minister was in the House and he promised that the Ministerial Statement was ready. Given the fact that I may not be in next week, I would request that the same be made tomorrow afternoon.
Under the circumstances, the Memberâs memory serves him very well. This undertaking was done by the Minister for Roads himself. The Chair directs that the Minister makes the Statement available on Thursday this week. Next Order!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts Sessional Paper No.3 of 2009 on National Land Policy laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday 18th November, 2009. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I get into the substance of the policy itself, allow me as a prequalification to say that the issue of land has been with us for more than a century. Indeed, the controversies and conflicts surrounding land started in the late 19th Century, as we understand them today. After the First World War, there were various land commissions which were established to look into the various land issues from the perspective of the colonial Government at that time and later on with the view of looking at the interest of the indigenous people who were referred to as the natives. In the year 2002, when various political actors were campaigning for elections from all sides of the political divide, there was generally an undertaking which can be seen from the various manifestos published by the political parties at that time. All of them did undertake to review and look at the question of land as a whole and formulation of the land policy. As a matter of record, if any Member of Parliament is interested to look at the various manifestos at the time, they can confirm what I am saying. The issue of land was given prominence and therefore, it was not a surprise that when the NARC Government came to power in the 2003, very quickly and within six months, there was established the Ndungâu Commission. This was to look into grabbed land or land that had
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Given the importance of this matter, would I be in order to request the Chair to allow the Minister to be given sufficient time to explain the Land Policy to the House?
Mr. Minister, the Chair is conscious of the importance of the Motion that you are moving. How many more minutes do you need in addition to your time?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when my time comes to an end, could I have seven more minutes?
You can have 10 minutes!
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have dealt with issues that require special intervention. I have tried to use the example of Lamu. You will find that the whole of Lamu is Government land. It is very easy for you and me, who do not come from Coast Province to get a title deed for land in Lamu, and yet up to now, the people who live in Lamu, including the Bajunis do not have title deeds. So, how do we address that injustice in a situation where our process of individualization of title deeds emanates from areas where there is trust land? You can declare a trust land as a land adjudication area and through the adjudication process, you can issue the ordinary people who live in those areas individual title deeds. That is what happens in other parts of the country. Many people have acquired title deeds now that we are trying to modernise the Port of Lamu. To address the problem where the local people do not have individual title deeds and do not appreciate them--- In fact, they want to live in villages and have a common title deed, we need a special intervention to ensure that communities that live along the coast get their fair share. That does not mean that we have closed that area to other Kenyans who want to live there.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I rise to second this very important Motion, I want to pay tribute to my learned friend, hon. Orengo, Minister for Lands for a very elaborate and deep analysis of a very serious issue facing our country.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to begin by quoting a famous gentleman called Mill who in 1865, wrote a book called Considerations on
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Did I hear the hon. Minister say that Members of Parliament from Ukambani are fighting over money arising from the sale of a piece of land? Could he substantiate his remarks and name those Members of Parliament from Ukambani who are fighting over a piece of land or else withdraw and apologize?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a matter of fact, I will be happier withdrawing and apologizing because I do not want to become party to small regional debates. Allow me to continue because they do not interest me at all.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was talking about land bank. This country must have a land bank so that we can be able to say to an investor or a public institution that land is available for development of whatever. Finally, I would like to talk about spatial planning. In this country, the wealthy go to Kitengela or Athi River and buy a plot of land and build, say, a mansion. However, when a neighbor comes by, he builds next to them thereby blocking the road so that even a tractor cannot go there to grade the road. Even a car cannot do a three-point turn if one found thieves waylaying him at the gate. We have no spatial planning. You build a school, and the person next door comes and builds a brothel, whatever that word means.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand on behalf of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources and on my own behalf, to thank the Minister for Lands for the very lucid explanation of Sessional Paper No.3. I also take this opportunity to thank all those that have put in a lot of their time in this policy as we have been doing since the General Election of 2002. I would like to thank the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs. I listened to both of them and I just hope they can donate some of their gifts to preaching in the course of their career in law and politics because I think they have talked rather convincingly.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in 1848, before Karl Marx authored his famous Das
; gave to the world a rather famous manuscript. It was called âeconomic and philosophicâ manuscript. It is in that document that he initially identified the issue of land, labour, capital and alienation as crucial issues for Europe in the 19th Century. Years later, somebody would say that Karl Marx may not have come up with the proper prescription of the problem that he identified, but at least, one thing could be said of Karl Marx: He understood the question of his time. In this regard, I think Hon. Orengo and his predecessor have understood one critical question of our time. That is the issue of land.
It is ironical that the very energies that have messed up the land issue â politics â have also to be used to resolve this problem. I find that rather paradoxical because problems of land have been caused by politics. It is bad politics that brought us where we are. It now must also come back to politics to resolve this problem.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the challenges I cannot wait to see how it will be addressed is the whole issue of implementation. This country does not have a problem with laws. The problem we have in our country is our capacity and willingness to implement the laws that we make. Even as we discuss this policy, from which we shall come up with legislation, I still do not know the level of commitment of our people to the whole culture of implementation of the laws that we pass. Somebody said: âIf you want to know a country, do not just read its laws.â Today we are talking about the Harmonised Draft Constitution. Do not just read it, if you want to know Kenya, listen to its songs. Do not just read this policy document if you want to
Order! Hon. Members, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House, will stand adjourned until tomorrow, the 2nd of December, 2009 at 9.00 a.m. Hon. Musyimi, you will have 15 more minutes.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.