On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Budget Committee, I would like to bring to the attention of the House the fact that the first quarter of the Fiscal Year 2010/2011 has come to an end. However, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, has not yet laid before the National Assembly the Compliance Report as envisaged under Section 14 of the Fiscal Management Act, 2009. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek your direction as to when the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance will make the Compliance Report available so that we can know the level of compliance within the fiscal limits of what we passed in the Budget. If he has not, we would like to know the reasons because this is a legal requirement and we expect the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to do so. The quarter actually ended last month. We have been waiting to see the Minister table the Compliance Report. I am sure the Treasury has not advised him. Maybe, he could check on the issue and comply accordingly.
Very well. Mr. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, do you have any reaction to that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not 100 per cent sure, but I think we have until 25th November, 2010 to table that Report. We are in the process of doing that. I think we should table the Compliance Report before the deadline.
The Member for Garsen, unless there is any statutory restriction that binds the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to table the Report within a certain timeframe earlier than 25th November, 2010, obviously, the Minister still has time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to the calculations we made, it was actually supposed to be 25th of the previous month. However, we are willing to wait if they are preparing it. We will be quite happy to wait for the Report because we do not want to harass the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance.
Very well! Mr. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, you need to be sure about the timelines. If the outer limit is already burst, then ensure remedial action within a reasonable period. In law, reasonable period will be a period not exceeding 30 days from the threshold.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is noted. We will act on it and ensure that we expedite the process.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Section 38 of the Guarantee Loan Act, Cap.461 of the Laws of Kenya; this House approves the increase of Total Contingent Liability of the Government for the time being outstanding in respect of principal amount of money borrowed or credit under the guarantee given under Section 3(1) or referred to in Section 8 of the Act from US$1 billion or Kshs80 billion to US$2.5 billion or Kshs200 billion. ADOPTION OF REPORT OF THIRD SESSION OF SECOND LEGISLATURE OF PAP
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Third Session of the Second Legislature of the Pan African Parliament held from the 4th to 14th October, 2010 in Midrand, South Africa laid on the Table on Wednesday, 10th November, 2010.
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) under what circumstances Mr. Cheborge A. Ng’eno is occupying Plot No.51 in Chesinende Scheme, while the title holder, Mr. Kibet A. Turgut, is landless; and, (b) what the Ministry is doing to ensure that Mr. Turgut regains his property.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Cheborge A. Ng’eno is occupying Plot No.51 in Chesinende Settlement Scheme, although the actual registered owner is Mr. Kibet A. Turgut. (b) The matter was brought to the attention of the Ministry way back in 1980 and after investigations Mr. Turgut was advised in December, 1988 to seek assistance from the Provincial Administration in evicting the intruder. The issue was revisited once more in June, 1992 and Mr. Turgut was advised to pursue eviction through the court process.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious matter and I find the answer by the Assistant Minister completely unsatisfactory. This man has continued to suffer. For 36 years, he has tried to pursue occupation of his land which the Ministry has rightfully allocated him. He has a title deed to the land. The man has gone to court and he has several cases. I do not have all of them here, but he has followed the due process of the law in trying to occupy this land. I find the answer by the Assistant Minister completely unsatisfactory. This man has gone through all those processes and 36 years later, he is still a squatter in my constituency. He has been unable to remove Mr. Ng’eno from his land.
Order, the Member for Sotik! Please, come to the question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Ministry give the rightful occupier of the land his land?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have made it very clear who the rightful owner of the land is. However, in view of the fact that there is an intruder on that land, the only remedy available to my Ministry is to advise the owner of the land to either use the Provincial Administration or go through the court process. Those are the issues I have raised with the land owner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the former Ministers for Lands is on record as having stated that a title deed is just a piece of paper. The current Minister for Lands has been going around revoking people’s title deeds, knowing very well that he does not have those powers. How does the Assistant Minister expect wananchi to respect title deeds?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that could be a different Question altogether because my understanding is that a title deed is a title deed, unless challenged in court. I can only abide by what has been directed by the court. In this issue, we have advised the owner of this land to seek redress from the courts so that once that is done--- We are prepared to give evidence because we have certified that this is the rightful owner. The other person does not have any papers. Mr. Turgut has to pursue the matter either through the Provincial Administration or through the court process.
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! The question by Mr. Twaha is legitimate and you cannot say that it is a different question. Even now, you have been addressing yourself to validity of title deed and ownership. Mr. Twaha is saying that you
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said this could be a different question because things go on merit. That applies to grabbed land. That is when we say a title is not valid. However, when land is given through due process, the title deed is considered valid.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to mislead the House that he has powers to declare land grabbed when we know that the law states that it is only the High Court of Kenya that can declare a title deed null and void? Where does he derive his powers from?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that those powers are not vested in us. However, in some of these instances, we are actually trying to advise the people who are affected to pursue them through the court process so that they can, at least, get the correct position.
Mr. Speaker, the Assistant Minister has admitted that this is a very needy case and the owner of the land has been waiting for the last 30 years to be assisted. We also know that if this person lived for another 50 years, he will not be able to realise the amount of money required to present a fresh case to court. Could the Assistant Minister consider some humanitarian assistance to bail out this family?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with the Questioner. We wrote a letter to the Land Adjudication Officer explaining that the rightful owner is So and So. That is why we said that if he could use the Provincial Administration, they could assist because the other person does not have any papers. Secondly, he could pursue the matter through the courts. As far as we are concerned, our work is to issue the title deed and nothing else.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have seen and heard in this House a Minister say that a title deed is a paper and that they can revoke any title deed by way of just declaring it null and void. What is the Government’s position as far as genuine title deeds are concerned?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my position is that a title deed is a title deed unless otherwise challenged in a due court process. Whoever does it has to face the due court process because nobody has the powers as far as the Constitution is concerned to nullify a title deed. If anybody is aggrieved, he has the right to pursue the matter through the due process of the law.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are aware that the Attorney-General is the protector of public interests. Clearly, this is a case which demands that the Attorney- General gets involved to protect the interest of this poor individual in the public interest. Has the Assistant Minister considered referring the matter to the Attorney-General with the advice that his officers on the ground take up this matter in court and get representation for this landless Kenyan who clearly deserves justice?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, our correspondence with our officer on the ground confirms that we were actually prepared. The other thing we need to put into consideration is that this matter has been taken to court by the rightful owner of the land.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My question was: Has the Assistant Minister considered approaching the Attorney-General where the law clearly provides for his intervention in circumstances such as this so that he can get the court to
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as my office is concerned, we have not done that yet. I will advise the Questioner to take up the matter with the Attorney-General in view of the fact that it is in court so that the Attorney-General can do something. We have made our position clear that the rightful owner is So and So. We even said that if the Provincial Administration can be used, then it would be much better. We will use the Attorney-General as the last resort if the court process fails to give the truth.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I donate a minute to Mr. Olago?
You can donate the chance and not part of it.
I donate the chance, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank my colleague, Dr. Laboso for donating a chance to me. From the answer of the Assistant Minister, it is clear that the Ministry is fully aware and concedes that the land is occupied by an intruder and a trespasser. On two occasions they have advised that the owner seeks assistance from the Provincial Administration to remove the intruder. Why is it not possible for the Assistant Minister to look clearly at the provisions of Chapter 300, Registered Land Act, within which he has got the powers to order the removal of an intruder and put the right owner on to the land?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the land ownership dispute was raised with the Director of Settlement in 1984, 1986, and 1988. After investigations, he was advised in 1988 that since he was the legal owner, he could seek the eviction orders either through the Provincial Administration or the court process. In 1990, a letter was written by my Ministry to the District Land Adjudication and Settlement Officer to have Mr. Ng’eno, who was in unlawful occupation of the plot evicted so that Mr. Turgut, the rightful owner could take possession. From the foregoing, it is clear that Mr. Ng’eno has been occupying the land belonging to Mr. Turgut, the registered owner and the only remedy for him is to seek legal redress. Unless there is another way, it is like saying we cancel the title deed and yet those powers are not vested with us.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My question was not how the rightful owner can seek legal dress, but why the Assistant Minister is not able to look at Cap. 300 for powers which the Commissioner of Lands has to remove the intruder.
What Section do you have in mind, Mr. Olago?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have it of head, but if I had a chance to go through the Chapter here, I can get it.
Could you liaise with the Assistant Minister and give him that legal advice so that the Minister can comply? Mr. Assistant Minister, liaise with the Member for Kisumu Town West so that you can see if you have those statutory powers and invoke them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will oblige as and when my colleague does it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard this Assistant Minister say that the Government has no power. You remember that the same Government removed people from the KICC. What method did they use if they cannot remove this poor man who is occupying somebody else’s land? These are double standards!
Order, the Member for Juja! That is a genuine point of order except for the way that you have articulated it, which makes it a question. I want hon. Members to be careful and frame your points of order correctly so that they fall within that parameter.
I am guided, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Are you saying that the Government is helpless and cannot enforce the law? What are you saying?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what happened to the KICC Involved executive powers, which as an Assistant Minister, I do not have. Secondly, the powers to evict are not vested in my Ministry.
Order! Mr. Assistant Minister, did you say that the Government is unable?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is not unable. That is why I assisted the owner to seek court redress.
Very well! That is just as much as you should have given for an answer. Next Question, Mr. Kiilu!
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) whether she is aware that the rehabilitation of Manooni Dam which was to supply water to residents of Mbitini, Matiliku and Mulala Divisions that was to be undertaken during 2009/2010 at an estimated cost of Kshs21.3 million has not commenced; and; (b) what has caused the delay and when the works will commence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that the rehabilitation of Manooni Dam has not commenced. (b) The delay has been caused by a disagreement between the local residents to allow rehabilitation works, even though they had given consent for the dam construction in 1983. The works will commence once the local residents agree to allow the rehabilitation works on the dam. Meanwhile, a total of Kshs10.5 million has been allocated to the dam for the supply of Matiliku Division. Funds have been provided to supply water to Mbitini and Mulala divisions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not satisfied with the answer given by the Assistant Minister. I would like him to tell us when these disagreements, which he has talked about and which I am not aware of as the representative of the people, started. I am reading mischief in the answer. In October, 2008, in an answer to an earlier Question which led me to ask this Question, the Minister confirmed to this House that funds had been set aside for the rehabilitation of this dam in 2009/2010. What has made him deviate from that answer?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the information from the ground is that there are disagreements between the residents on the accessibility to the site. The Government has
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very clear that the Assistant Minister is not prepared to answer the Question. At the beginning, he says that there was consent and then he goes ahead to say that there was a disagreement. I want to understand from him how the disagreement came about after they had achieved consent earlier enough.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the consent was given in 1983; over 25 years ago. Now when the project is ready for implementation, there are some disagreements on the ground. As I said, I have talked with the officials at the Ministry headquarters and I am ready to travel to the area at the convenient time of the Member, so that we can find out the truth on the ground.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, water is life. I realize that some money has been set aside to supply water, particularly in Ukambani where this is extremely important just like where I come from. The Assistant Minister says this project has not been completed because of the dispute on the ground. The Member, who is always there every week, says there is no dispute. Could he provide evidence to show that there is a disagreement, so that there is an aspect of accountability on the part of the performance of this Ministry?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the officials who are supposed to implement the project tells us there are disagreements on the accessibility of the site. The Member could assist us in solving this problem.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Member for Makueni! You have the last opportunity! Assistant Minister, have you finished?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, honestly, if there is a problem about the accessibility of the site, the Member who is closer to his people than anybody else, could assist the Ministry to solve it. I am ready to visit the area together with him at his convenience, so that we can find out the truth about the issue. He has just said that he suspects some foul play in this issue. Since the Minister had promised that this matter was going to be solved, I am ready to travel with the Member to his constituency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to restate that there is no dispute at all. If there is a dispute, it is the creation of the Ministry. In his final reply, the Assistant Minister said that some Kshs10.5 million has been set aside. Where did the Kshs21.3 million go to? How did the money disappear?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter is very important to the people of Nzau District. Therefore, I would have found it convenient to visit the site. I do not know why the Member is not very excited to go with the Assistant Minister and the Ministry officials to his constituency, so that we can find the truth on the ground. I am ready to do so.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Member has asked a straightforward question. Where is the Kshs21.3 million? The Assistant Minister has not answered the question. Is he in order not to answer the question that was asked?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Budget for the Financial Year 2009/2010, which has passed--- The money could have been returned to the Treasury when the
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! As far as I am concerned, you have adequately dealt with this matter, except that you need to go to the ground to ascertain the truthful position and proceed to implement the project. Confirm that you will go to the ground and thereafter, proceed to implement the project. Please, do so!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready at the convenient time of the hon. Member, to travel together with him, so that we can ascertain the position on the ground. I guarantee that I will make sure that the project is implemented immediately.
Very well! Hon. Members, Question No.414 on Prosecution of post-elections Violence Suspects after Passing of the New Constitution was previously dealt with to the satisfaction of the Member for Garsen. Therefore, it is spent. Member for Samburu East! The Question is dropped.
Member for Yatta. The Question is dropped.
Next Question, Member for Uriri Constituency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I allow me to ask---
Order, Member for Nyakach, I have no information that the Member for Uriri Constituency authorized you to ask the Question on his behalf. Normally, the procedure would be that I be notified.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the letter is with the Clerk.
Yes, I am now satisfied. You may proceed.
on behalf of
asked the Minister for Agriculture:-
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Government is already implementing plans for greenhouse farming in most parts of the country to improve agricultural production although the take off is slow owing to high startup capital and water availability. This policy is derived from the realities of climate change, where rain-fed production is unpredictable. (b) The Government has expanded this programme and in particular, is funding construction of greenhouse for the Ombo Village Health Development Group in Uriri Constituency for tomato production and demonstration purposes. (c) The Government and stakeholders in the agricultural sector have enough personnel and technocrats to help in the new farming technologies. However, following the creation of new districts, the Ministry is experiencing shortage of personnel and hope to recruit more to cope with the demand. Currently, Uriri District has eight Ministry of Agriculture officers.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have heard the Assistant Minister mentioning only one particular project for one particular group, yet there are several other groups. When does he intend to roll out these projects to other groups which have not benefited from this project?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said, to startup this Greenhouse exercise is very costly. Even some Members of this House have given greenhouses to schools and groups through the CDF. It is very costly for the Ministry to do that exercise. So, I am appealing to other Members to do the same. Some Members have given this project to schools and women groups. They are doing very well.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the answer of the hon. Assistant Minister, he says that Greenhouse farming is being encouraged in most parts of the country and that Uriri District has got eight Agricultural Officers. Could he confirm to the House that Kisumu North District is one of those areas that have been considered and why it does not have even one officer?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a breakdown of where we have some of these projects in the new districts. In Western Province, we have 74 Greenhouses in nine districts, Eastern Province we have 800 in 11 districts, Rift Valley, 357 in 17 districts, Nairobi 79 in four districts, North Eastern one, Central Province 678 in 25 districts and Nyanza we have 74 in 11 districts.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to part “c” of the Question, where are the offices situated in the Mombasa County?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in Coast Province, we have 36 in seven districts. In addition, we have greenhouses in every Agricultural Training Centres (ATC) for demonstration. If you go to Mombasa Show Ground, we have also a greenhouse there for demonstration. We also have it here in Nairobi and other areas.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister in giving the distribution of greenhouses, he indicated that there is only one in North Eastern Province. What criteria did he use because if I heard him right, the disparity is so large that, to me, it is not acceptable? Could he spell out the criteria that he used?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said that one of the criteria is availability of water and then, the other one is groups. According to what I have, we have only one in North Eastern. I can only find out why it is only one and go back to the Member.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has only mentioned that putting up one greenhouse is expensive. Could he reveal how much it costs to put up one greenhouse, so that the groups that have benefited know how much Government has given to them?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it varies from one company to another. But if you go Amiran Kenya, one for 700 plants costs Kshs140,000.
Member for Emuhaya. The Question is dropped!
asked the Minister for Education whether he could clarify why Mr. Abdallah M. Adam (TSC No. 252668) was not paid his salary for the period between May and November, 2005, and when he will be paid.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Question was handled quite a bit last week, except for the month of November. The House wanted to know what the Ministry will do with the salary of Mr. Abdalla Adam for the month of November because he was posted to a wrong institution. So, the issue is why the Ministry is not paying his salary for November, 2005. This is the way forward. Mr. Abdalla was posted to Mombasa Teachers Training Institute (TTI) on 2nd November. When he reported, it was found out that he did not have the right subjects for that institution. However, he reported on 23rd. He did not report as early as we thought he would. So, he reported on 23rd of November. For that reason, we are going to pay him the salary from 23rd of November to 1st December.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, after a long discussion with the Assistant Minister on behalf of Mr. Abdalla M. Adam, I agree with the seven days payment and I am satisfied with the response.
Very well! The matter will rest there. Let us move on to the next Question by the Member for Rongai.
asked the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation:- (a) whether she could confirm that each constituency will receive an ambulance before the end of 2010/2011, in line with an earlier Government commitment on the same; (b) how much funds the Ministry will use to ensure that enough ambulances are bought; and, (c) whether she could also explain how the Ministry intends to utilize the Kshs294,000,000 provided for the 2010/2011 Budget to hire ambulance services, considering that there is no policy frame work on the same.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I can confirm the distribution of ambulances to each constituency before the end of 2010/2011 Financial Year. (b) My Ministry has been in consultation with the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance on the leasing of ambulances for referral purposes. Already the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance has invited qualified and interested companies on the expression of interest which was advertised in the local dailies on 16th September, 2010 as the Government requires to lease 300 ambulances for distribution to health facilities countrywide. Based on the conclusion of this process, the Treasury will be in a position to know how much it will cost. (c) Currently, the technical evaluation on the request of expressions of interests on leasing of vehicles for Government transport as stated above is ongoing. As soon as the process is complete, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance will invite bidders and receive formal request for proposals as specified. A draft policy framework is available and work is going on towards this conclusion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to table this Draft Concept Paper for leasing of Government vehicles.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I thank the Assistant Minister for responding to this Question. If you look at part “b”, you will find that I have asked expressly how much is available and how much she is going to utilize to buy an ambulance for each constituency. However, the Assistant Minister has gone ahead to explain about leasing.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we wrote about the model health centres in the country, our budget in the Ministry was to get an ambulance for every model health centre within the country. However, a modern Four-Wheel-Drive ambulance will cost about Kshs5 million. That means that we should have---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to say that an equipped Four-Wheel-Drive ambulance will cost Kshs5 million and yet my Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in Kimilili has been able to buy Four-Wheel- Drive ambulances for two hospitals costing less than Kshs2 million each and yet they are well equipped? Is he in order to mislead this House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not misleading the House. Our budget from the Ministry to the Treasury for buying a well-equipped Four-Wheel-Drive ambulance was Kshs5 million. That was our estimate. That turned out to be Kshs1 billion for the 210 constituencies. We did not have that money in our budget. Therefore, we turned to leasing of ambulances as stated by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance in this august House. I want the House to understand that when the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance read his Budget Speech, we debated it and passed it as a good policy statement for the Government. So, we want to have this innovative way where the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance wants to give us leased ambulances.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the point of order raised by Dr. Eseli, the Assistant Minister has said that the estimate from the Ministry was Kshs5 million. What was the basis of that estimate?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me say that I do not know what kind of ambulance Dr. Eseli has bought for his constituency but a well equipped ambulance with oxygen---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to imply that the CDF office in Kimilili might have bought inadequate ambulances and yet we took an example of an ambulance supplied by the Ministry within the same constituency using the same standards?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a matter of argument. As a Ministry, our estimate was Kshs5 million for an ambulance and I am saying that we may review---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a matter of common sense. The Assistant Minister should tell us the basis of his estimate. He cannot just come up with an estimate. He should tell us the basis of his estimate. He should tell us if it is a motor company that quoted or he drew the figure.
Order, the hon. Member for Vihiga! I do not see that being a point of order.
He is misleading the House, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, the hon. Member for Vihiga! Mr. Assistant Minister, can you proceed? Proceed and answer the question which was put by the hon. Member for Vihiga. What was your basis for arriving at that estimate of Kshs5 million?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that was done by the technocrats in my Ministry. We can review that if hon. Members feel that it is on the higher side and give another budget for the next financial year.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since I joined this Parliament, the idea of providing ambulances to all constituencies has been mooted. It is not a rocket design to find an ambulance to give to constituencies. If the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation will not mind, the CDF can do that if the money could be channeled through it.
Very well! There is no question there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also as much surprised by this estimate of Kshs5 million as the other hon. Members. However, that notwithstanding, I would like to know what criterion was used and how he came up with the budget of Kshs294 million for the lease of the ambulances that he has listed here?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already mentioned that we had given the Treasury our budget and it decided to give us Kshs294 million for hiring of ambulances. This is, indeed, innovative and I would like to give a chance to the Treasury to give us these vehicles on hire.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has repeated twice before the House that the idea of leasing ambulances is innovative but he has said that there is no framework yet. Is he saying that he will commit about Kshs294 million for ambulances on an idea which is innovative? Is it innovative to misappropriate?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have tabled a document from the Treasury trying to show the innovative way of hiring Government transport. So, the hon. Member can look at it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the hon. Assistant Minister to say that the idea is innovative when he has no framework on how to spend the money?
Order, the hon. Member for Kisumu Town West! The Assistant Minister is saying that he has given you a Concept Paper, which he has tabled. In his opinion, to which he is entitled to, he believes that the idea of leasing ambulances is innovative. He has given reasons for the innovation in the Concept Paper. So, you need to acquaint yourself with that concept paper before you can challenge the Assistant Minister on whether or not, it is innovative.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has said that this is a Draft Concept Paper. So, we have no idea when the document will be completed, brought to this House for approval and whether that will happen within the current year, given the fact that he does not determine the calendar of Parliament. Given the circumstances, will he consider allocating the Kshs294 million to various constituencies which can purchase computers at Kshs2 million rather than working on estimates that have been contradicted by no lesser person than a medical officer of health who has purchased two ambulances at a cost less than Kshs5 million?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Minister for Finance read the Budget Speech here, we debated on these issues. Actually, the figure of Kshs294 million was clearly discussed here and as for the document that I have tabled, I have been assured by the Treasury that, in fact, in the next two months, it should be ready. So, really, that is the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, considering that ambulances are actually medical tools, what becomes of those ambulances that you are going to hire when the lease time expires?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a new innovative way of hiring these ambulances---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, please protect me!
Order, honorable Member for Kanduyi!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Ministry, we will try the hiring of ambulances and we shall give a feedback to the Treasury if it does not work. But this is a new idea that was read out during the Budget Speech and we all listened to it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It looks like it has not occurred to the Assistant Minister that the Government has withdrawn the hiring of vehicles. Why is he coming here to talk about hiring of vehicles when the policy position is that there is no more hiring of vehicles? Is he in order?
Order! That does not become a point of order by simply asking: “Is he in order?” I am afraid I rule that out. It is not a point of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, the honorable Member for Kanduyi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is Kimilili.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order while talking about innovation, not to state whether it is a positive or negative innovation, considering that at the end of the lease when the ambulances are returned, what is going to happen to the patients who have been using them? That is what hon. Kigen wanted to know and the Assistant Minister has not answered that.
Order! Order! That is also now just a question. Nothing in it makes it a point of order.
What is it? Are you also on a point of order?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ask a Question.
The Question is already dispensed. We took the last Question. The honorable Member for Makadara!
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) under what circumstances were City Council offices in Harambee Ward, Makadara Constituency demolished and transferred to Jericho; (b) to state why the land meant for the said council offices is currently occupied by a private developer; and, (c) what action the Ministry is taking to ensure that the land reverts to the public.
Is the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government not here? Prof. Ongeri, would you hold brief for your colleague? What is happening to him?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will, certainly find out and be able to take the information to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government to be able to answer this Question next week.
I will note the provision of Standing Order No. 97; that, that amounts to disorderly conduct.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just seek your indulgence. I am sure there must be very extra ordinary circumstances. It is not in the habit of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government to absent himself in this sort of manner. Thank you.
This Question is deferred to Tuesday next week! I will expect the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government to offer an explanation to the House as to why he was not here during this sitting to answer the Question.
Hon. Members, I have looked at the documents tabled by the Assistant Minister for Public Health and Sanitation in answer to Question No.518 and this document is stamped in both the prints with the words “Draft Leasing Concept Notes for discussion only. Not for circulation.”
So, Mr. Assistant Minister, I will prove that this is not admissible unless you are able to justify why you are circulating a document which is otherwise restricted by the Government. Are you in breach of your own regulations?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we actually pressed the Treasury to tell us about this hiring of vehicles and they decided to give us that as evidence that they are doing something about it. So, I decided to table it because they gave it to us.
So, can this now be circulated? Say “yes” or “no”.
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
If you have tabled it during a public sitting of the House, then it will be circulated.
Very well, that brings us to the end of Question Time. Next Order!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just heard you say that, that brings us to the end of Question Time and I see that the Prime Minister is in the House and this is a Wednesday---
The Prime Minister’s Time is not Question Time, honourable Member for Central Imenti. You are a Member of the Speaker’s Panel and I thought you would have a lot more knowledge of the Standing Orders. I have information that there was a commitment by the Front Bench that a Statement would be issued today pursuant to a request by the honourable Member for Makadara with respect to security of students and teachers of Bururburu Girls High School. Is that Statement now ready? It is supposed to be given by the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. I can see that the Minister is not here.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am supposed to request for a Ministerial Statement over the same matter.
You are supposed to!
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
I thought you informed me that you had requested and that it was due this week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think there was a communication breakdown.
A communication breakdown, then I am afraid, it is also not provided for in the Standing Orders.
If you see the Standing Orders, the honorable Member for Makadara, I think it would be useful for you to know that if you want to request for a Ministerial Statement, then you must have audience with the Speaker one hour before the sitting. You have not done so. I have also made communication from the Chair that honorable Members will not be allowed to request for Ministerial Statements from the Chair after the sitting commences. So, just be guided accordingly.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I requested in the morning to ask for this Ministerial Statement.
Who did you request?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I requested Prof. Kaloki. He was in the Chair then.
That is wrong. You do not do that when the Chair is already sitting in the Session.
And, again, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was---
Just comply with the directions which I have given.
Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, hon. Affey?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand under Standing Order---
Order! Order! We are not yet at that point. We have to finish this Order before you can rise on that point. The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, it is now your time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a Statement on Kenya’s economic competitiveness. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware that the notice did not go out to hon. Members on time. I want to apologise for that communication breakdown. Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members of Parliament, in my Statement this afternoon, I would like to discuss our country’s competitiveness, namely our ability to attract private investment, expand exports and thus attain our goal of accelerating economic growth and sustaining it to more than 10 per cent. Higher economic growth is necessary to create jobs for Kenyans, particularly the youth, who are currently unemployed. The rate of unemployment is unacceptably high. I am aware, and I am also pleased, that Kenya’s economy is gathering pace and the nation is awash with optimism. The role and responsibility of the Executive and Parliament is to translate this optimism to reality. In other words, our collective duty to the nation is to adopt and execute the policies that will strengthen our competitiveness to sufficiently transform our country to a middle-income nation by the year 2030 as envisioned in Vision 2030. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the latest issue of The Economist, which is a well respected weekly journal, painted an optimistic picture of Kenya, calling our country “the region’s dynamo”, but it concludes that Kenya remains vibrant, yet fragile. The gap between the rich and the poor, as well as ethnic groups competing for abundant resources and usable land is frightening. The total investment in our country is only slightly about 20 per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). When the Asian tigers sustained growth at 10 per cent, they boasted of investment of 35 per cent of GDP or even 40 per cent. More worrying is that private investment in our country remains low, at about 12 per cent of GDP. Our economy is growing at about 5.5 per cent this year. Even this growth is largely financed by borrowing. This is because we, as a country, save only about 15 per cent of GDP. It is therefore clear that we must dramatically boost private investment. We must attract a very large amount of foreign direct investment. We must substantially enhance our competitiveness. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Global Competitiveness Report of the World Economic Forum gives us a useful hint on where Kenya stands relative to other countries in the
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. With due respect to the Prime Minister, we did not, today, get in the Order Paper, any indication that there would be any Statement, although I noted that the Prime Minister made an apology. It would still be in vain, because we, as Members of Parliament, are unable to interrogate the Statement he is making since we were not aware that such a Statement would be forthcoming. I think you have made a ruling in the past that there would definitely be advance information to hon. Members via the normal procedures. Would I, therefore, be in order to request that, possibly, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister postpones making this particular Statement until such time that Member of Parliament are given adequate notice, so that they can easily prosecute the matter?
Hon. Members, I will allow the Prime Minister to present the Statement to conclusion, and permit those hon. Members who are able to interrogate it to do so this afternoon. Those who may have issues and require time to prepare themselves
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I was saying, the Constitution requires substantial strengthening of public institutions, including the Judiciary. The latter has, indeed, been a major bottleneck in creating confidence in investors that any dispute will be resolved fairly and swiftly. The Constitution upholds access to adequate education and health care as the Bill of Rights for all Kenyans. The Constitution requires realization of these ideals. Finally, let me touch on the issue of corruption. We all agree now that corruption is a cancer that has plagued our nation since independence. The Constitution demands high standards of leadership and integrity for all holders of public office. President Kibaki and myself place particular importance to full adherence to this constitutional requirement. The Government is committed to tackling corruption once and for all. I urge institutions charged with investigating corruption to remain transparent, non-partisan and above all, vigilant. These institutions have our full support. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, allow me to emphasize once again that the implementation of the Constitution is key to bringing Kenya at par with middle income emerging economies in terms of competitiveness. It is the key to achieving our goals of Vision 2030. President Kibaki and myself are firmly and fully committed to this historical task. I call on you, honorable Members of Parliament, to do your part for making our shared dream a reality. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Prime Minister, please, take notes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I commend the Prime Minister for the statement he has made and he made reference to the Economist which I also read and he cited the approval the same Economist magazine has predicted that the Prime Minister will be Kenya’s next president. So, given that that prediction is the basis upon which the Prime Minister cites his approval, I am asking whether in the proposed laws, that in order to achieve the development goals that you have elaborated, you are considering increasing the allocation to the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), given that the CDF has played a very major role and made a great impact in the development that has led to the Economist prediction and assessment of Kenya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank the Prime Minister for the Statement that he has made and especially the reference to the foreign investors and the kind of confidence they should have in our country for them to do the investments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think part of what has driven away even foreign investment is corruption and the Prime Minister has said that him and the president are already in the forefront and they are not going to tolerate corruption in whatever form. While the Prime Minister says that him and the President are very keen to stamp out corruption and that they are not working alone, they are with the Cabinet, what measures have they taken to ensure that the Cabinet Members also are in the same boat as they are so that if anyone of them is mentioned adversely on corruption, resigns or steps aside?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like the Prime Minister to clarify one issue. A few months ago, he talked about Kenya going the nuclear way. There
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Prime Minister has talked about corruption and indeed, it has hampered our economic growth. We have several Ministers who have been implicated in corruption. We also have a bloated Cabinet. Mostly, the right hand will not know what the left hand is doing. In view of the provisions of the new Constitution, would the Prime Minister and the President be willing to do something about this bloated Cabinet? Are they willing to do a radical surgery and bring it down to 24 as Kenyans are asking?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to congratulate the Prime Minister for that information that he has given to us and want to seek two clarifications. The first one is on foreign direct investment. I would like to know what the plans or policy of the Government is so that foreign direct investors do not edge out the citizens who are also in the same business. The second one is the effect of congestion in our city on our competitiveness and those investors who are either within; that is citizens or those who come from outside. What plans are there to decongest our city so that investments can be robust?
Prime Minister, you may want to respond to those issues and when you finish, if there is still interest, we will take another five.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Imanyara of course, read the Economist and he is fully aware of the assessment. His concern was about increasing the CDF. The country will not develop purely on the basis of allocating resources for CDF to constituencies. We have now agreed that we are devolving and the structure that we have is a devolved system of Government. We have devolved now to the counties and resources are going to go to the counties; a minimum of 15 percent. Depending on how the capacity is going to be built, those resources will be increased progressively as the country moves on. My view is that what we are trying to do with CDF is to ensure that resources go down to the people and I know that CDF was just a start. Now, it has been properly institutionalized in the Constitution, so resources are going to go down to the grassroots for the purposes of providing services at the grassroots. So, those funds do not necessarily have to be called CDF. We can increase allocation to the counties; still, we will be taking funds down there. Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. M’Mithiaru is concerned about corruption just like hon. Wamalwa and, of course, they have endorsed the stand that has been taken by the President and the Prime Minister. They are concerned about steps that have been taken by the executive to ensure that those who have been mentioned in corruption step aside. This language of stepping aside is now influential in our country; any time somebody mentions your name, you are asked to step aside, even if there is no proper evidence. Once investigations are carried out, then the argument is that somebody is then accused. If we say that anybody whose name is mentioned must step aside, we will be running a country on the basis of malice, where anybody can wake up in the morning and make wild allegations---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to contradict himself when he is on record as having said that Mr. Samoei and Prof.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not contradicting myself. At the time when I asked Ministers to step aside, some investigations had been carried out. In the case of Mr. Samoei there was a PricewaterhouseCoopers Report, which had been published and which, therefore, said that they needed more investigations to be carried out by KACC. So, that was a very different situation I was talking about. What I am saying today is that somebody will wake up in the morning and just say so and so has been involved in corruption and wave some document. I am saying that, that is not sufficient proof to warrant somebody to step aside. Mr. Speaker, Sir, sometimes this idea of stepping aside has been pushed too far, to the level of vindictiveness. For example, I want to highlight the question of the cemetery land, which has been raised here. Hon. Members will remember that the KACC has already investigated it. People are already in court. A Permanent Secretary is in court, a mayor is in court. Many people are in court. So, why are we again asking other people to step aside when investigations have already been completed and people are already being prosecuted? All that I am saying is that we should not run a country on the basis of vindictiveness, where somebody will just wake up in the morning and say so and so has been involved in corruption; he has been mentioned adversely; let him step aside for investigations to be carried out. No, that is not how to do it. That is not how to run a civilized State. We have institutions which have been charged with investigations. We have got the KACC; we have the Inspectorate of State Corporations; we have Internal Audit Office in the Treasury and we have the Efficiency Monitoring Unit within the Government. So, assumptions should never be made that the Government does not have the capacity to carry out investigations. It has the capacity and we have, therefore, a supervisory capacity to supervise the Executive. What I am trying to say is that we will not sit down and watch when our resources are being misused by members of the Executive. I want it to be understood that in this regard, our role is complementary to that of Parliament. This is what I wanted to state, so that we are very clear about it from the very beginning. Mr. Speaker, Sir---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If the Prime Minister could oblige, the issue which has riled Members of Parliament from the Executive is that they have been insisting that Parliament is overstepping its powers when it is doing its oversight role, especially in investigating cases of corruption within the Government. Parliament has a unique and special role in the Constitution to ensure that we continue to do this. Is the Prime Minister saying that the work of committees is, therefore, wanting; that it should not go on or cannot be undertaken until those other external bodies do their work? We have got the constitutional responsibility of oversight and we do not intend to renege on it. We will perform our duties as---
Order, Member for Chepalungu! I have given you indulgence, so that you are satisfied that the Chair is fair, bearing in mind that just before I left the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, frivolous and vexatious is what the hon. Member is talking about---
Mr. Prime Minister, I have already given direction. I think it helps if you let it rest where it is.
Member for Chepalungu, please hold your peace. I have already put the Prime Minister back on course, and I have given direction.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Member for Lamu West was concerned about the high cost of energy and wanted to know when we will go nuclear. We have a very comprehensive programme on green energy, which includes nuclear energy. We are not just looking at nuclear energy. We are looking at others like geothermal, wind, solar and bio fuels in order to not only reduce the cost of energy, but also to go the route of clean energy. We are now very concerned about global warming and environmental degradation as a result of burning of fossil fuels. We have a nuclear programme and we are trying to collaborate with the Governments of France and Korea in our nuclear programme. Shortly, we will begin the process of recruiting manpower for training, because we need to develop the capacity to handle nuclear energy. In this programme, we have planned to save our generation capacity. When this Government came to power three years ago, our total capacity was 1,200 megawatts. We have since increased it by 300 megawatts, and we intend to double it by the year 2012. It is not only the Government that is involved. We are encouraging the private sector to invest heavily in that field. That is because the field is now fairly liberalized.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister is just answering the first set of questions. The way we are going, time will lapse before any other substantive questions have come up. Is it in order to ask the Prime Minister to be a
Very well! Mr. Prime Minister, you know the rules!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, actually, I was concluding. All I was asking the hon. Members is to stop encouraging lamentations about lack of employment in Government institutions and parastatals. That is because those positions are not vacant and even if they were all filled, it would still not solve the equation of unemployment in our country.
Very well! We will take another set of five!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Prime Minister - he has answered my first question – to leave out the other one? As you go to the second round, am I in order to request him to answer the second about the congestion in our City? The congestion is a deterrent to many things. What plans does the Government have to de-congest the City of Nairobi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize to the hon. Member. I want to tell him that because of the rush by Eng. Maina, I omitted his last question. Yes, the Government is concerned about congestion and it is doing something. The hon. Member will have noticed that there is a lot of construction work going on in the City. This is also part of the cause of the congestion that we are experiencing currently. But the Government is expanding the road network in the country in order to de-congest the City centre. There is a lot of traffic at the City centre that does not belong to the City. The transit traffic, for example, coming from the Coast going westwards does not have to come through Uhuru Highway. Likewise, the traffic coming from the north, that is, Nyeri and Thika going to the west, that is Nakuru or Mombasa, does not have to pass through the City. So, we are creating by-passes around the City. We are also widening the roads - like Thika Highway - as a way of trying to de-congest the City. So, I would like to urge hon. Members to bear with us. The congestion is temporary, but within another one year or so, it is going to be very smooth running within the City of Nairobi.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister has brought up a very important topic for this country. The greatest resource a country has is its people. The unemployment in this country is growing instead of decreasing, even as we say we are developing. That is because we do not involve the local people. The climate in this country - and ask any entrepreneur - is hostile to local people. Today not a single local legal company is involved in big jobs that are done in this country. Not a single consulting firm is involved in big projects that are being undertaken in this country. When is this Government going to come up with policies that are clear and not give officers a chance to create a frustrating climate that most local people face? Only then will Kenya develop. Kenya cannot develop when we relegate our own people into cotton carriers, trench diggers and road sweepers. We have that level of development but we are talking about the country developing in earnest where Kenyans are in charge of this country and its wealth.
And that must be the last one, I am afraid.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is aware that things like electricity continue to hamper locals from conducting business. When is this Government going to come up with clear policies? These should not be policies where the so-called foreign investors - starting with those coming with Kshs2 million - come to open a small restaurant in Kilimani. When are we going to have local people having the right policies? I do not mean big companies coming from outside and small people opening fish and chips restaurants everywhere in this town in the name of investment. When are we going to have the local people being offered the opportunity and the climate? When are these preferential treatments we are witnessing in this country with foreign companies going to end?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek two clarifications from the Prime Minister. One, I think the Government has been finding a lot of comfort in the growth of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) at about 5 per cent. The export as a percentage of the GDP has declined from 40 per cent to 26 per cent over a period of time. This is such a large drop and it frightens. No country can grow without exports. What is the Government doing to ensure that the exports are increased to a level that can sustain the continued growth of this economy? Secondly, in terms of attracting direct foreign investments, I think we may be putting our standards very low. In some countries, to set up a company it takes only one day. In this country I believe it takes up to 30 days. How does the Prime Minister expect this country to attract direct foreign investments when our standards are so low?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am rather concerned when the Prime Minister speaks about corruption and stepping aside. I got the impression that the Government tends to feel that stepping aside is a very strange concept yet within the Government itself, in the public service when somebody is being investigated, they are actually interdicted. They step aside until investigations are completed. I cannot see why we were clamouring for the Chapter on Integrity in the new Constitution, if we think that by implementing that Constitution, it appears to be witch hunting. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I find that it may apply to you and the Prime Minister. It is a concern that the Chairmen of our Committees have been invited to join the Cabinet in their retreat. That, to me sounds alarming---
Order, Mr. Nyamweya! Please, resume your seat! It is not accurate to say that Members of Parliament, namely, Chairs and Vice- Chairs have been invited to join the Cabinet in its retreat. The retreat, yes, was convened by the Executive but I as your Speaker was consulted on whether or not we can have a session where Parliament’s leadership has an opportunity to interact or engage with the Executive so that we can work together to ensure that there is effective governance in the Government, which the Legislature is part of. That is why you talk about the Government in its tripartite form. So the Legislature must see itself as part of the Government. This interaction is obviously important because it is intended to ensure that we give good
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for that clarification. If it had been communicated I may not have read what I read from the Prime Minister’s Statement and that particular thing. The Committees intend to continue working and do intend---
You are now corrected! So, just make your point.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committees do intend to do their oversight role. I am just reminding the Prime Minister that Chapter Six on Integrity requires that if there is something adverse about a public officer, they must step aside. Stepping aside is not the same as saying there is criminal culpability. Truly it is not. So, we would like assurance from the Prime Minister and the President that there is not going to be stepping back on this fight against corruption because that is what is hampering the development of this country. The cost of corruption is incredibly high. If you read the billions of shillings that have been lost, I do not think we should allow ourselves to waver on this.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to get further clarification from the Prime Minister now that he has indicated the commitment to the fight against corruption. We as Members of Parliament have heard, on a number of occasions, some rather threatening statements emanating from the Executive, in particular his office, that Members of Parliament are overstepping their mandate when we exercise our oversight responsibilities through Committees and investigate cases of corruption. I would like the Prime Minister to clarify whether the Government appreciates the role of Parliament in the fight against corruption. We are, indeed, also worried that although the Chair has made the clarification, we had a feeling that probably the Executive would like to co-opt us and possibly request us to go slow and compromise us through---
Order, Mr. Ruto! Clarification has been made, so, please move to a different area.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just need that clarification. We do not intend to be co-opted.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also take this opportunity to thank the Prime Minister for his very reassuring Statement in improving the investment climate in this country. Nevertheless, I would be seeking one clarification; what efforts have been taken to enhance security of our citizens? Recently, innocent Kenyans lost their lives and our fishermen at Vanga Island are being harassed by police from a neighbouring country. You also note that our fishermen are not at peace in Migingo Island. Finally, merchant ships coming to the Port of Mombasa are being attacked by pirates. What efforts have been taken to improve the investment climate in order to attract even big industrialists to bring their merchants to this country?
The last one will be by the Member for Alego Usonga. I have made that exception because the Member for Alego Usonga is very involved in the private sector.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank the Prime Minister for the timely statement. However, I would like him to clarify what the Government is doing to ensure that the foreign investors that are coming into the country
Mr. Prime Minister, you may now make the last responses.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! Order! Mr. Prime Minister, do you want to be informed by the Member for Mathira?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have heard the Prime Minister talk about subsidies on farm produce. I would like him to confirm to the
Order! That is not a point of order!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to say that he would like our goods to be more competitive when he is aware that when we bring Chinese contractors into this country, they bring in their own people, food, toilet papers and everything, including even soda?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! The Prime Minister is responding to a point of order. Hon. Maina, please, resume your seat. Mr. Prime Minister, please, also resume your seat for a minute! Mr. Prime Minister, the point of order raised by the Member for Kandara is to my knowledge very valid. There was a time in this country when certain jobs were protected and reserved for Kenyan citizens. What happened to that policy? For example, foreigners were not allowed to come to this country to be cooks or watchmen, but now it appears they come and do all these jobs. What happened, Mr. Prime Minister?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to challenge a ruling by a High Court judge by saying that there are things that he may ask this Parliament to consider doing something about? Is he in order to pit this National Assembly against the Judiciary, which is a different arm of the Government?
Order! Hon. Member for Bura that, definitely does not pass the test of being a point of order. You are merely asking the Prime Minister whether or not he is questioning a judgment of the court. Really, that cannot be a point of order. There is nothing disorderly in what the Prime Minister has just said.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not challenge the ruling. I simply commented on it
Could you, please, proceed! I have already given directions on that.
Hon. Yinda wanted to know what conditions the Government will put to foreigners who have come to invest in the country, and whether those foreigners will offer shares to local citizens. I know that in some countries, it is mandatory for foreigners to offer shares to local citizens. I am not quite sure whether that, itself, has advanced the economic development of the people in those countries. We know that partnerships are negotiated freely in a free enterprise society. So, we encourage our citizens to enter into joint ventures with foreigners who are coming to invest in our country. But we also want them to venture on their own because capital is now available locally. I know that some of our people are shy when it comes to taking risks. Taking a risk to venture into the private sector is a big problem. That is why I was saying that Members of this House must join the Government in trying to create a culture of risk- taking, rather than a culture of employment mentality that says: “Just put me somewhere”. The culture that “I must be employed somewhere” is what we must discourage, so that the private sector can thrive in our country.
Order, hon. Members! Right Hon. Prime Minister, so that the record of this House is accurate and consistent with the history of this country, I know, as your Speaker, that in the days that we used to practise law, I and perhaps, hon. Orengo, hon. Kiraitu and a few other lawyers who may be in this House, there was a deliberate Government policy in place by which we stood guided, that you would not incorporate a limited liability company unless Kenyans had a majority share up to 51 per cent. We complied with that regulation. What happened to it? It is applied in other countries like the United Arab Emirates and works for the benefit of the citizens of those countries.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have rightly said in the days when you were practising law. This country has gone through an evolution. There was a time when we had a policy of protecting infant industries in our country. When you opened a factory in this country and you could produce to satisfy the local market, you could apply for protection and you would be---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Prime Minister, do you want to be informed? There are two Members who want to inform you!
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will take from hon. Imanyara.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can confirm to the Prime Minister, because I still practise law even as of today right from the days that you mentioned that, that is the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know about law, but I am talking about business.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to tell this House that this nation has allowed investors to come in and invest without due regard to what Kenyans will own? If that happens, we will not own this nation. What belongs to Kenyans is the wealth of the nation. If we allow a policy where people come in and invest without restrictions, at the end of the day, this nation will not belong to us. It will belong to those people who will have invested in this nation.
Order! Prime Minister, you need not respond to that because it is not a valid point of order. I know it may be a very important matter that you have canvassed, but unfortunately, it does not pass the test for a point of order. Prime Minister, if you have something else to say, you may.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that was an opinion and not a point of order. We have gone through an evolution. We reached a stage where we said that we must remove the incubator because that was a period of incubation, when we were trying to bring up Kenyan entrepreneurs. A time reached when protection against imports was removed when the economy was liberalized. So, a number of companies survived and some collapsed. I know that there are certain privileges that if you want to get, for example, exemption from taxes for a certain period of time, you cannot get them unless there is a certain percentage of Kenyan participation in the venture. But I do not know as of now any law which requires that a foreigner coming into the country must give Kenyan citizens 51 per cent shareholding. If we did that, we would discourage very many foreigner investors from coming into our country. We must also know that we now live in a very competitive world. That is why we are talking about Kenyan competitiveness. Why are we talking about our competitiveness? This is because if we did not offer certain incentives, the foreign investor will go to a country which offers it. Foreign capital is risk-shy and it will go to a place where there are incentives and protection. We know that we need foreign direct investment in our country. Therefore, yes, there are certain privileges which are restricted to companies with Kenyan participation, but we have also not refused any foreigner who wants to come and invest to come merely because he has not offered so much shareholding to our people. I would like to urge the Members of Parliament to join us in this effort of trying to make our country more competitive, so that we can attract more investment into our country which will help to create more employment opportunities for our people.
Order, hon. Members! That matter now must rest there. That brings us to the end of that Order. As we come to this point, you will have noticed that we spent
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that this House adjourns pursuant to Standing Order No.23, to debate the ongoing security operation in North Eastern Kenya where the security forces have tortured local leaders and residents.
Hon. Members, indeed, I have received Notice of this Motion in accordance with Standing Order No.23. I have reflected on the matter, considered it and I am satisfied that it is of national importance and urgent.
I am satisfied that you have the numbers. You may resume your seats! Hon. Members, I direct that we proceed with this Motion as at from 5.30 p.m. onwards and I allow one hour for that debate.
Hon. Members, we are now in the Committee of the whole House to consider the Competition Bill (Bill No.3 of 2009).
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 be amended in Subclause (3) by deleting the words “is a single dominant undertaking, or an undertaking which together with not more than two other independent undertakings” appearing immediately before paragraph (a).
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5 be amended in Subclause (1) by inserting the words “all persons including” immediately before the words “the Government”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 10 be amended by— (a) renumbering the existing provision as Subclause (1); (b) inserting the following new subclause immediately after the renumbered subclause (1)—
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 12 be amended- (a) in Subclause (1), by inserting the words “with the approval of Parliament” immediately after the words “appointed by the Authority”; (b) in Subclause (2), by inserting the following new proviso at the end thereof— “Provided that the Director-General shall hold office for a renewable term of five years, subject to a maximum of two terms”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to oppose this amendment and seek to persuade this Committee. While appreciating the need for the oversight role by Parliament at the appointment of Chief Executives, we are creating an authority here. We, as Parliament, have given the responsibility of vetting of the Board to Parliament. But having vetted a Board and given them authority to then hire a Director-General, perhaps, we are going into micromanagement at the point of even vetting a Chief Executive who is hired by the Authority. The operating words here are the “Director-General appointed by the Authority”, not appointed by the Government. It is an authority that has been created by Parliament with specific mandate and specific qualifications. My worry is that if we continue this, the Chief Executive we so appoint, will have his allegiance not to the Board, not to the Authority, but to the ultimate appointing authority, which is the approval by Parliament. Our Chief Executives, when they become politicized could now end up missing out what they should be doing and fail to be accountable to the Board. I know that the Committee has very good intentions in terms of wanting to see that the Board has appointed the right person, but when we put this law it will be used for
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, we have held a few discussions with the Minister. I think this will be going against the spirit of the Constitution. Parliament is vetting all public officers and this is one of them. This is a key institution. I do not think that Parliament will be serving the public by leaving the appointment to be done by the Board and the matter ends there. I will give the example of the Public Procurement and Oversight Authority. They did not have a CEO for more than three years. It is only because of the fear that we would raise the matter in this House and somebody had to appear before a Committee that they had to rush through it. So, we do not want a repeat of that. We want to be sure that even part of the vetting is to make sure that, that is done in time and the position is filled expeditiously. I persuade Members of Parliament that there is merit in this. Any Committee of Parliament is supposed to be credible. So, we should not cast aspersions on a Committee of Parliament that is supposed to be doing its job properly. Therefore, I would like to go by the amendment as it stands.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:-
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 20 be amended in Subclause (4) by inserting the words “In case of oral evidence, the claim may be” immediately before the word “made”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 21 be amended in Subclause (9) by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 22 be amended in Subclause (6) by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 23 be amended by in Subclause (1) by deleting the following words “together with not more than two other independent undertakings” appearing immediately after the word “which”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 24 be amended— (a) in Subclause (1), by deleting the following words “on the part of one or more undertakings” appearing immediately after the word “conduct”; (b) in Subclause (3) by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”. ( Question of the amendment proposed)
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 30 be amended by inserting the words “together with the reasons thereof” immediately after the words “exemption revoked”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 31 be amended— (a) by deleting sub-clause (3); (b) in sub-clause (4), by— (i) deleting the following words “For the purpose of” appearing immediately before the words “an investigation” and substituting therefor the words “If the Authority decides to conduct”; (ii) deleting the word “authority” wherever it appears in paragraphs (a), (b) and (d), and substituting therefor the word “Authority”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 33 be amended by deleting the expression “whether or not such statement, document, information or matter would otherwise be admissible in a court of law” and substituting therefor the expression “but a statement, document, information or matter shall not be received in
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 42 be amended— (a) in Subclause (3), by deleting the expression “Subsection (1)” and substituting therefor the expression “section 41”; (b) in Subclause (5) by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”; (c) in Sub-clause (6), by— (i) inserting the words “the preceding year’s” immediately before the words “gross turnover”; (ii) inserting the word “annual” immediately before the word “turnover”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 44 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “authority” and “thirty” appearing in paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the words “Authority” and “sixty” respectively.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 54 be amended in Subclause (3) by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 55 be amended by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 56 be amended –
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 57 be amended – (a) in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade”. (b) in Subclause (2) by deleting the word “the” appearing immediately before the words “business consumer”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 59 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:-
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 61 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 63 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade” in paragraph (a).
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 64 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the words “or commerce” appearing immediately after the word “trade”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 70 be amended by deleting the words “one million” and substituting therefor the words “ten million”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, could the Chairman of this Committee explain to us what really motivated the Committee to raise the bar or to raise the penalty from Kshs1 million to Kshs10 million, because this is very punitive?
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, this is not actually punitive because it is between Kshs1 million and Kshs10 million. When you take a company, for example Shell, Kenya Breweries or Safaricom and you penalize them with Kshs1 million, what incentive is there? I mean, Kshs1 million to them is nothing; it is pocket change! So, this is why we need it to raise it, to make sure that---
Honourable Member, are you convinced?
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 72 be amended by deleting paragraph (c).
Madam Temper Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 82 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the word “the” appearing immediately before the words “it may by law”. ( Question of the amendment proposed)
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 85 be amended in Subclause (1) by deleting the word “chairperson” appearing in paragraph (a) and substituting therefor the word “chairman”.
Madam Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of The Competition Bill, 2009, and its approval thereof with amendments.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered The Competition Bill, 2009, and approved the same with amendments.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.
(Mr. Obure) seconded.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that The Competition Bill, 2009, be now read the Third Time.
(Mr. Obure) seconded.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that this House adjourns, pursuant to Standing Order No.23, to debate the ongoing security operation in North Eastern Kenya, where security forces have tortured local leaders and residents. First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Chair for evidently finding it proper that this matter be debated by the House as a matter of national importance. I also thank the House for agreeing with me that this matter is, indeed, of great national significance. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as we all know, the role of our security forces in this country is to protect the lives and property of our people. The matter I intend to raise today arises as a result of the fact that our own security forces, instead of giving protection and security to our citizens, have turned to torturing and intimidating them at will. I raised this matter on the operations the officers are conducting in parts of northern Kenya and particularly in Wajir North Constituency; in the towns of Buna, Ingirir, Bute and many other locations of Wajir North Constituency. I raised this matter with full knowledge and understanding of the local Member of Parliament who happens to be out of the country on engagements. At the beginning of this month, the security officers undertook an operation in Wajir North and part of Moyale whose intention and purpose the people who reside in that constituency had no idea, had no prior information, had no knowledge of. Therefore, there was an operation where the citizens who live in that part of the country had no idea exactly what was happening.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, these same officers, in pursuit of whatever they were pursuing, broke the law. They defied the constitution and contravened the Constitution of Kenya, particularly Section 4 of our Constitution which is elaborate on the Bill of Rights. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this day, the security forces found it fit to constantly harass the people of Wajir North to the extent that the local leadership in the area who as we know, are the ones appointed by the Government---. The chiefs of Wajir North entirely, as we speak today, have been intimidated and are nowhere to be seen, most of them. I would like to tell the House of a shocking incident where the security forces who were supposed to work with the Chief for Buna, Mr. Abdullahi Yusuf, and the chief for Ingiriri Location, Mr. Abdikadir Dahir, instead, physically assaulted these same chiefs. They were physically assaulted and beaten up in the full presence and view of the people they are supposed to lead; the residents of Wajir North. You have a situation where the chief
These are vital organs as you can all see. They used forceful methods, perhaps they were trying to castrate him without using anaesthesia.
Order hon. Affey! Who took those photographs you are referring to and when?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, these were taken two days ago by the Human Rights Watch Group in Wajir and I know the chief. This is the chief for Bute, Mr. Abdullahi Yusuf. I know him as we speak. I will table them
When were the photographs taken?
On Monday Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Monday this week; 8th November, 2010.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to show the shorts the chief was wearing. This is a photograph but this is the short the chief was wearing. You can see this short has blood stains all over---
This photograph could be disputed but no reasonable Kenyan can dispute this. It is very evident and I table it for the House to understand the circumstances in which our people are suffering.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what will happen to ordinary Kenyans, the local women in our farms and the villages if this is happening to a chief who is on the Government payroll? These chiefs have been intimidated, almost to the level of being killed! This is what the officer was using to drain blood. This is the blood of a chief; the blood of a Kenyan! Even after we have promulgated a new Constitution, it seems that our security forces have not understood that the basic rights of Kenyans, the rights on which this House votes money to pay them, must be protected. Their main duty is to protect the same Kenyans whose blood you can see before us. There is fear in Wajir North and parts of upper Eastern Province, absolute fear! We are asking the Government to immediately
Mr. Affey, your time is up!
I will be seconded by hon. Bahari!
Could you please be so kind as to put the pair of shorts in the polythene paper?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is evidence.
Yes, you can leave it there at the Dispatch Box. Just put it in the polythene paper.
This is the blood of Kenyans.
Mr. Affey, could you please switch off the microphone? You have done very well.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want, from the outset, to thank you for allowing this Motion to be debated due to the significance of this matter. I also want to, in the same vein, thank the Members of Parliament who have been very keen on this matter since we brought it to their attention this morning, and for the overwhelming support that
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I speak with a great deal of anger that this is happening in the very beginning of a new dispensation, and a new Constitution which forbids this kind of conduct. I speak against the background of a great deal of pontification by Members of the Government, from the President downwards, who keep talking about the great things that
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to also join my colleagues in thanking you for allowing this Motion to take place. At the outset, you can see that the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security and his deputies are not here. We hope that since the Leader of Government Business is here, he will be taking the information that we intend to pass on.
Mr. Duale is saying that he is a Minister but I think chiefs in his constituency are receiving the same treatment. That is because the treatment that this Government gives to chiefs in our areas is equal in all constituencies, whether you are a Minister or not!
Before the new Constitution, there was a similar case where chiefs from Galgadud Division of Mandera, Elwak, were punished in the same manner. My question to this Government is whether chiefs in North Eastern Province have to be subjected to a different set of disciplinary action by the Ministry as opposed to the rest of the country. We have never seen a case of a chief being manhandled by the security forces in the rest of Kenya. But such incidents are repeated in the northern part of Kenya. I am curious because I have heard from the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security and other Ministries about the inflated population figures in northern Kenya. Is this one of the methodologies they are using to rectify the message of saying that our population is inflated?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what they have done to that chief is a serious matter because they have damaged a chief from one of the most endangered clans in this country.
Mr. Duale is laughing! I need protection from his laughter!
Mr. Duale, please, respect the lady!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not a laughing matter. The clan from which those two chiefs come from and the acts that have been perpetrated against them are extremely serious. That is because their population is endangered. So, for the Government to take action similar to what the security forces have done is to destroy the already endangered population in that area. Thirdly and finally, if that is what they have done to a chief who wears the crown of the State, what do you believe is happening to the women and the elderly in that area? So, before they finally make the population of that constituency extinct, legal action must
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for many years, we have heard our brothers and sisters from the North cry about how they have been treated as second class citizens. When you travel up there, they still say that when they come to Nairobi, they have arrived in Kenya. But they have been treated as people who are not equal before the law for many years. This can no longer be allowed to happen with the new Constitution. Under Article 27, every person is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and equal benefit of the law. But those who brutalized that chief, Mr. Abdilahi Yusuf, I am not even sure whether they are aware of the provisions of this new Constitution. The Government has talked of re-training our security forces. We have heard that they will be re-trained, but they still remain the same brutal force when they are supposed to be a service. They are supposed to be a police service and not a police force. The force they used against Mr. Abdilahi Yusuf cannot be justified. What we have heard in this House today is a shame to the nation. It is something that we will ask the Government, before they do anything, to give an apology to the people, particularly to the family of Abdilahi Yusuf and those who were brutalized by the police forces and to take action against them. But the Government must also move to tell this country and, particularly, those who serve it as chiefs whether, indeed, they are still part of this Government or not; whether, indeed, they are going to restructure the administration to include the chiefs or not. That is because with what is happening already, chiefs everywhere in the country, not only in the North, are worried whether they are still part of the system. However, as my colleagues have said, for one to be beaten in the manner in which Abdilahi was beaten and yet he was wearing the crown of State, leaves a lot of questions to be answered. We urge that immediate action be taken against those people. Thank you!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you and this Parliament for the very specific reason that in February 1984, over 1,000 people were killed in Wagalla, and this House could not raise 15 people to stand up so that the Motion could be discussed. This means that this House has come of age.
What Ms. A. Abdalla has said is right. It does not matter whether there is a Minister in your constituency. This is the third incident in two years in Wajir County. There was a more recent one before this one. The attackers were faceless people; they had guns, they harassed people, hijacked two vehicles and robbed the people. They were arrested by APs and the police released them. Mr. Affey raised that issue and up to now, there is no satisfactory
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. We have been appalled! We cannot believe what we have just heard. When we went round this country campaigning for the new Constitution, telling Kenyans that this is a new dispensation, a new order and that things will not be business as usual, we truly believed that this was a new country. I remember clearly Mr. Orengo telling Kenyans that policemen will be saluting Kenyans and asking them: “Can I arrest you?” Can we say the same now? From the scenes we have just seen, are we not ashamed of ourselves? The Government must come out! We must see that this is a new Kenya. We must see action and this Front Bench, you are the Government! Can you execute the new Constitution?
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. First and foremost may I begin by saying that it is the Government’s responsibility to guarantee those freedoms and the rights of every single Kenyan without question of creed, tribe or colour. That is the responsibility of the Government under this Constitution. Secondly, it is also the responsibility of this Government to provide security to all Kenyans. However, I want to agree with those who have spoken before me that even as we provide that security, we need to provide it within the existing laws of the land while protecting the human rights of all Kenyans. If, indeed, what we have seen today is the truth, I join in saying that this is something that requires urgent investigation. We must get the truth and with the truth, immediate action, in order for Kenyans and everybody to know that Kenya has changed. We are under a new dispensation and this kind of thing will not be allowed to go into the future. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on that basis and with thorough investigations to prove that, indeed, this is what has happened, I support this Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. From the onset, I would like to thank the Chair personally, for having allowed debate on this Motion on very short notice. The barbaric and brutal action by the overzealous security forces in the North Eastern Province is not something new. The only new thing is that as a country, on the 27th of August, 2010, we promulgated a new Constitution promising Kenyans that everything will change. What has happened in Wajir North today, including the crushing
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I do not want to talk about the Ministry in charge or the Government as a whole. I think I also bear responsibility for what has happened in regard to this Kenyan who has been brutally assaulted. It may be taken that this is an event in isolation. We need some kind of revolution in the way we run the Government, having now achieved the new Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I can go down memory lane, recently in Malindi, there was an attempt to remove some squatters from land that they had occupied for some time and this ended up in two people being killed. In Mombasa, recently, there was an eviction carried out by the police and I have no problems with the evictions being carried out. However, the amount of property that was burnt and the people who were injured during that process was not something that one would be proud to talk about.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we talk about human dignity, it means that even if you do not like your fellow human being, even if he is a prisoner, even if he has violated any law or has been found guilty by a court of law of competent jurisdiction, he is required to be treated as a human being. What really makes me a little bit ashamed is that in North Eastern Province, there is now a pattern developing. Mr. Gitobu Imanyara knows that we have dealt with many cases. There was a time I used to go to Mandera to do cases and you would find people who have been collected as if they were chartels. In the courtrooms, you would have a District Officer (DC) who would be conducting the proceedings. Everybody in that courtroom would be somebody from upcountry and the accused would be people from North Eastern. I protested at that time that if you have a system of justice that you cannot call your own, then you cannot expect justice. This is really the time for us to reform the police force and our institutions so that if people are conducting even a demonstration, a police officer has no right to beat somebody even if it is not a licensed demonstration. They have no right to beat anybody. In fact, in South Korea, if there is a demonstration you would find more policemen hurt than ordinary citizens. Even for those who are hurt, the State has to give full account in what circumstances they got beaten up. Recently – and I want to say this without any fears – in a little meeting of some Cabinet Ministers, I brought up this issue of the manner in which the police is carrying out their duties, including evictions or the way the Provincial Administration is carrying out certain orders that they are required to enforce. I think if you want to live by the new
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. For the benefit of my colleagues, I want to be very brief in my contribution. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, whilst I support this Motion, it has been said very clearly that this culture of maiming, raping and killing people in northern Kenya has been something that has been ongoing. But the expectation of the people from northern Kenya has been that, at least, with the promulgation of the new Constitution, this culture will come to a complete halt. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I go back to the events of when hon. Affey moved the Motion to repeal the Indemnity Act, the President wrote back a Memorandum. In the explanatory notes to the Memorandum was the fact that even in international law, the officers are allowed to carry out some actions in acts of combat. What baffles is: When security forces are sent to go and police the northern parts of Kenya, are they sent there for combat or to protect the citizenry of northern Kenya? With the Memorandum that came from the President and the current happenings, it is clear that when police are sent to other parts of Kenya, they go to restore law and order and protect the wananchi. But when they are sent to northern Kenya, then they are up for combat and to instill fear. That is why they are allowed to carry out acts of impunity. They kill and maim and none of them is brought to account. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, desperate times call for desperate measures. These are desperate times. If we do not prove that the new Constitution is not just a piece of paper, but a legislative agenda that the people of Kenya must live within, this has to be a turning point for the Ministry. We have to see the Ministry acting in accordance with the Constitution for us to have confidence in what we passed as a Constitution; that it
Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii, na pia kuruhusu swala hili lizungumziwe kwa kirefu. Jambo la kusikitisha hapa nchini ni kuwa haswa wale ambao ni wanyonge ndio wanazidi kunyongolewa mbali. Ni makosa sana kwa Wakenya ambao ni wadogo kwa idadi ama sio wengi katika Serikali kuonewa namna hii. Si bwana huyu tu ambaye ameharibiwa maisha yake kwa sababu ukitaka kumumaliza mtu, mnyime mbegu zake za kupata watoto na pia maisha yake na utakuwa umemmaliza yeye na vizazi vyake vyote. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ni jambo ya kusikitisha na huzuni sana kuwa miaka 47 baada ya kupata Uhuru, Wakenya bado wanatesana namna hii. Ni jambo la kusikitisha kuwa sasa hivi tuko na ukoloni mamboleo badala ya ukoloni ule ambao ulikuweko tukipigania Uhuru. Ukiangalia sana, jambo la kusikitisha haswa ni kuwa jamii ya Wasomali na pia waislamu kwa ujumla Kenya hii hawana faida. Kwa sababu hawana faida, wanateswa, wanashikwa na kupelekwa Uganda na kufanywa mambo mengi ya ajabu ajabu kwa sababu wao hawatakikani kuwa kama Wakenya na kufurahia matunda ya Kenya hii, haswa wakati huu ambao tumepitisha Katiba mpya. Haki zao za kibinadamu zinachezewa na kila mtu. Haswa ikiwa chifu anateswa hivyo, hao wengine wanaweza kufanywa vipi? Tunasikitika sana siku ya leo. Haswa nakumbuka vile malalamishi yalivyofika hivi leo, wengine wetu tulishika matumbo kwa uchungu kwa sababu tulishangaa ni nani huyo anayeweza kuwafanyia wenzake kitendo cha kinyama namna hii. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ni lazima sisi kama Serikali tuchukue jukumu la kuhakikisha kuwa Wakenya wanaishi kwa amani na kufurahia haki yao ya kuwa Wakenya haswa wakati huu baada ya kupitishwa kwa Katiba mpya. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, naunga wenzangu mkono kuwa jambo hili lazima likomeshwe sasa hivi.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to add my voice to this important Motion. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I would really like to give my condolences and those of the Members of this House, because I think we may be speaking and forgetting that there was one person who lost life, as well as this chief who has, of course, undergone tremendous torture. But as I speak here, I want us to ask the Government to be a bit more open and transparent in the way it is carrying out its responsibilities. We have spoken here about the reason this man had to undergo what he did, because there is a certain security operation. Our colleague has been unable even to finish his sentence because of the kind of emotion that runs high, due to the operations that are carried out across North Eastern Province. I would like the Ministers to listen to me because it is them we are addressing – the Government that does not listen - You are responsible, as a Government, because we are in a Coalition Government. I do applaud those who have spoken and said that this is not the responsibility of one Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, but more importantly, the reason this, for me, is really painful is because a few months ago, as Members of this House, we brought another report to the Floor of this House where we had pictures of young men who had undergone similar torture. I am hoping that the response that will be given by the
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief so that I can give time to my other colleagues. It is a very sad day for the people of northern Kenya. It is even sadder after they have passed the new Constitution. It is sad for the people of Kenya and, more so, for the people of northern Kenya who, for 47 years, have been going through terrible hardships. They thought that by voting and passing the Constitution at a rate of 98 per cent that, that would make history. Fundamentally, we were waiting for the TJRC to visit our place and document the atrocities that previous Governments have committed against our people. If it can happen now, then a lot of moral questions and fundamental human rights questions will have to be answered. I believe that the Government that I serve on behalf of the people of Kenya and, particularly, on behalf of the people of northern Kenya, is not the Government that those individuals who did that serve. I want to say it here that the Government must take decisive action against those individuals. Immediate action should be taken against the administration police officials who did that to Government officials. I will say, as a Government Minister, that, that will not be condoned and as a Front-Bench, we will not accept that. Key leaders of the Government have spoken and the Leader of Government Business is here. History must not repeat itself. This is an indication of another Wagalla in northern Kenya. This is an indication of marginalization of the people of Somali descent. When our people do good business, it is said that they got their money from piracy. When our people work hard, we are told that we are involved in money laundering. We cannot allow it. We cannot be part of that leadership. I am sure that my colleagues, who have come enmass to this House today, will not accept, under the current Bill of Rights. We will not condone that. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I support this Motion.
Mr. Ruto Isaac. You have two minutes because the official Government Responder has five minutes. So, you have two minutes.
Thank you. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, today is a very sad day because there is a clear demonstration that our security apparatus have no idea on how to behave and how to act. They are operating in total impunity and in total violation of the Constitution. With regard to that particular activity, we will demand to have an apology from the Commissioner of Police or else he quits tomorrow morning. We will not tolerate this. We know our colleagues here and we will indulge them. However, they are equally hurt. What is happening with the police? Why are they doing this? I know that they have been doing that even in other pastoralist areas. They have been doing that in Pokot, Turkana, Transmara and in places like Murang’a. We have seen boys being given terrible treatment by police officers. Where are we heading to? Why? The Prime Minister will give his pledges here. The Cabinet will plead but there is something which is not about to change within the police and the Provincial Administration. They are completely oblivious of the complaints that Kenyans have raised during the years. The General Service Unit (GSU), the Anti-Stock Theft Unit (ASTU) and other police officers are not concerned at all. There are very few who are clean. The worst hit is the GSU and ASTU. I am aware of a few cases. Indeed, I filed a Question regarding their activities in Transmara. We have similar cases and we cannot continue to tolerate this. I associate myself with all the views that hon. Members have given. I want to stop there because, as you had indicated, I had two minutes.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I will donate a minute each to hon. Mrs. Noor because she is feeling strongly about this, and to hon. Mr. Kimunya.
Thank you, your Excellency. I want to take this chance to honestly thank all hon. Members who have contributed to this Motion. When I look back, I see history repeating itself. Impunity in North Eastern Province is the order of the day. It is the order of the day and it will continue. It is an unfortunate, unacceptable, unconstitutional and barbaric act that we will not accept in this era and at this time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs for donating this one minute to me. I also join other hon. Members in condemning that act. I believe that whether done by a police officer or by a member of the public or by anyone, no Kenyan blood deserves to be spilt under any circumstances. Once we agree on that, it does not matter whether this happened in North Eastern, in Central Kenya, in Lunga Lunga or anywhere. No blood of a Kenyan should be spilt under any circumstances. I would like to condemn that and, in the same breath, say that we should not be condemning the entire Police Force. As we walk out of here and go back to our homes, we are entrusting our lives to security officers attached to us and we trust them to take care of us and our families. We also trust them to take care of all other Kenyans. So, let us isolate a bad guy from the good guys and hope that we can create a bigger Kenya for all good policemen and citizens without the bad ones.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the remaining three minutes, I want to say that the Government takes a very serious view of this matter. I have seen that we are a bit
Hon. Members, that concludes the business of the day. The House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 11th November, 2010, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.