Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Agriculture the following Question by Private Notice.
(a) What is the justification for the ban on the exportation of raw macadamia nuts as directed by the Minister vide Gazette Notice No.16229 of 15th December, 2010?
(b) Could the Minister consider immediate withdrawal of the Gazette Notice in view of the financial losses it is causing to macadamia farmers?
(c) Could the Minister state the month-to-month payment made to macadamia farmers for their crop from January 2010 to date and also state the measures being taken to ensure the farmers are paid the best price for the crop?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a)The Ministerâs Gazette Notice No.16229 of December, 2010 lifts the ban on exportation of raw nuts. However, the Gazette Notice has been challenged in court by High Court Case No.JR368 of 2010.
(b) In view of the above Gazette Notice, part âbâ of the Question does not arise.
(c)Attached is a schedule showing month-to-month payment made to macadamia farmers for their crop from January, 2010 to date. In January, 2010, Kirinyaga East was paid Kshs3.85 million; Embu West, Kshs288,000 and Embu North, Kshs3.7 million. In February, Mukurweini was given Kshs350,000; Kirinyaga East, Kshs4.45 million; Embu East, Kshs3 million and Embu West, Kshs348,000. In March, Mukurweini got Kshs1.05 million; Kirinyaga, Kshs4.78 million; Embu East, Kshs4.5 million; Embu West, Kshs432,000 and Embu North 7.488 million. In April, Mukurweini got Kshs1.75 million; Kirinyaga, Kshs5 million; Embu East, Kshs13.5 million; Embu West, Kshs288,000 and Embu North, Kshs11 million. In May, Mukurweini got Kshs1 million; Kirinyaga East, Kshs3.96 million; Embu East, Kshs3 million; Embu West, Kshs96,000 and Embu North Kshs4.7 million. In June, Kirinyaga East got Kshs1.5 million and Embu North, Kshs3.94 million. In July, Kirinyaga East got Kshs1.59 million. In December, 2010, Embu West got Kshs48,000.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the answer given by the Assistant Minister because it confirms that the ban was lifted. However, it would have been prudent if they made it public. Presently, in the Kenya Gazette Notice, the information percolates down to the farmers. That is the reason I brought this Question on the Floor of the House. The farmers did not know that the ban had been lifted. I notice that the payments that have been made do not indicate the prevailing prices. Could the Assistant Minister give us an indication of the prevailing prices, maybe, for the month of March? He could list the prevailing prices per kilo of quality nuts.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the House that there is no ban on any raw nuts. Anybody can deal in the exportation of raw nuts, including macadamia nuts. However, during the ban, the prices of these had gone up to Kshs10 a kilogramme depending on the area. After lifting the ban, we are now talking of a price between Kshs65 and Kshs85 a kilogramme.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the Assistant Ministerâs answer, during the ban, the price of nuts was much lower than when the ban has been lifted. Has the ban been lifted voluntarily by the Ministry or it is because of the Judicial Review Application No.368 of 2010?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we did it because we realized that the prices had gone too low and it was not fair for the farmers. That is why the ban was lifted.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to note that this country is going through a crisis in terms of creation of jobs for the young people. I would like to know whether the Ministry has any policy towards ensuring that farmers of macadamia nuts, cashew nuts, ground nuts, and other nuts are facilitated and supported by the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that we have processing plants that add value so that the Government earns revenue as well as creating employment for our young people.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, farmers are organized into groups so that they can have bargaining power on the prices; they can determine at what price to sell their nuts. We have what we call KABAG(?) in the Ministry of Agriculture which deals with macadamia nuts, mangoes and so on, so that the farmer can get return from their produce through value addition and processing.
The Assistant Minister has mentioned the areas he considered when working out the prices. Macadamia nuts are grown across the country and yet his answer does not seem to cover the entire country. However, one of the observations made about the exporting of macadamia nuts and mangoes is that farmers have been harvesting raw nuts that are not ready for processing. By so doing, we lose quality market overseas. What action is the Assistant Minister taking to ensure that whatever is exported is of high
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Co-operative Development and Marketing are organization and doing a bit of advocacy and communication to let our farmers know that they can only achieve higher returns of their produce by coming up with high quality products. That is what is being done at the moment.
When is the organization going to crystallize?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that it is going on now.
Mr. Ndambuki, you said that the Ministry is âorganizingâ. When you say âorganizingâ it is infinite!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am saying that the Ministry is organizing the farmers into groups.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Assistant Minister say that they are âorganizingâ. Is that a policy or is it a matter of some farmers in self-help groups doing the job? Could he give some timeframe when we are going to start selling quality nuts and mangoes to earn this country good income?
Mr. Ndambuki, when is your organization going to mature?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the process is ongoing with the farmers.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has dealt quite a lot on value addition and also trying to organize groups that can do that. However, I would like him to tell us what action he is taking to improve the production. This is because the volumes of macadamia nuts that come from this country are quite low. What measures is he taking so that we can improve the production of macadamia nuts in this country, especially in Mathioya where the climate is quite good?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, during that time, the Ministry brings farmers together. They are taught how to take care of their crops by applying fertilizers and other farm chemicals so that they can get good returns from their crops.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Assistant Minister to tell us whether he has ever considered the auction system, where farmers can maximize on the prices of their crops. That is how coffee is sold. That would give our farmers an opportunity to fetch better prices.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason why we put farmers into groups is to enable them to have a better bargaining power. That way, they can determine how much they will sell their crop for.
Member for Rangwe.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order Member for Naivasha! You have many other opportunities.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. From the look of things, the Member for Ragwe is not here. The latest information I have is that he is out of the country on parliamentary duty. He went out of the country with the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations. I am not sure whether he is back.
I will ascertain that before I determine the fate of the Question. Member for Siakago.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that several people have been attacked, killed or maimed by crocodiles while fetching water at Kiambere Dam and, if so, could the Minister state how many people have been attacked in the past five years? (b) What action will the Minister take to stop the crocodile menace to the residents of the area permanently? (c) Could the Minister consider erecting barriers between the crocodiles and the communityâs water sources, considering that the next water source is about 30 km from Tana River?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that members of the public have been attacked, killed or maimed by crocodiles while fetching water at Kiambere Dam. The victims that the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) records indicate to have been attacked by crocodiles in the last five years are as follows:- There are a total of 14 since the beginning of 2007, with three being attacked this year. (b) My Ministry has called for an urgent stakeholders meeting at Kiambere Dam on Wednesday, 20th April, 2011. The main aim of the stakeholders meeting will be to find immediate and long term solutions to the perennial crocodile attacks menace on residents around the dam, and other dams that form the Seven Forks Dams. The key stakeholders expected to attend the meeting are Tana and Athi River Development Authority (TARDA), Ministry of Energy through KenGen, Mbeere North County Council, Provincial Administration of Mbeere North and South, surrounding areas Members of Parliament for Siakago and Gachoka and officers of KWS. (C) The stakeholders meeting called for by my Ministry will give sustainable options that can be put in place immediately so as to ensure that the community gets water without their lives being endangered by crocodile attacks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, the answer that has been given by the Assistant Minister is quite shallow. The Assistant Minister is taking this matter lightly. When crocodiles attack and kill many people, it becomes a matter of national concern. When he gives a list of only 14 people--- I know, for sure, that two of them were eaten last week and another one last month. Five have been attacked within the last two weeks. This list is not acceptable. The communities living around that dam are not only from the Mbeere community. The people who have been eaten include Kambas who live across the dam. I would like to know whether the Assistant Minister is also concerned about the Kamba side.
Order! Hon. Kivuti, I have given directions on these matters before. In this House, which is the National Assembly of Kenya, we do not refer to communities by tribes. You can refer to the communities around the dam and not to Kambas around the dam. There may as well be other tribes living around the dam.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will refer to them as Kenyans who live around the dam.
The concern here is about the people who have been eaten. It is not about the 14 victims referred to in the list. It is very important that the Assistant Minister addresses the issue of the six dams which form the Seven Forks. Many people may have been eaten without any reports being made. In many cases, the compensation made is very little. When you pay Kshs200,000 for somebody who is dead, that does not make sense. I would like the Assistant Minister to have a very strong conviction on this matter so that we can address it once and for all. We have to separate the crocodiles from human beings. That way, we will solve the problem once and for all. I would like the Assistant Minister to tell us whether the Ministry is going to commit itself to separate, permanently, the crocodiles from the communities living around the six dams in that area.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Indeed, I would like to congratulate my colleague, hon. Lenny Kivuti, for asking this particular Question. I can only tell him that this morning, a delegation led by the Chairman of the Mbeere County Council came to see me in the office. I gathered my officers to come and discuss this matter. It is not only about the Kiambere Dam, but all the Seven Forks Dams, the problems affecting the people and how we can put in place immediate long term measures to resolve the issue. Some of the issues we have agreed on and, indeed, KWS has already done, is to put up a team of five rangers with a boat to patrol the dam. They started working as from 9th this month at Kiambere Dam. Secondly, we have also laid some traps. Some of my colleagues may have seen that in the newspapers. You may have seen some of the traps that KWS has laid in that area to capture those crocodiles. One of the things that we agreed in the meeting â and, fortunately, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources and MP for Gachoka came to the meeting - was that with immediate effect, in the next few days, the fencing of the six critical water fetching points around the Kiambere Dam will be done by KWS. Since we have stakeholders in all the seven dams, including KenGen, TARDA and county council, we have scheduled on Wednesday, a stakeholders meeting which will discuss how best we can put the medium-term measures to ensure that the community is provided with water from the dam. It may be difficult right now to say that we can eliminate all the crocodiles. I think that is going to be very difficult. On a case-by-case basis, we can do that. However, the best thing we can do is to look at the option of putting walls around some parts of the dam and fencing off the area with chain link where people can access and fetch water without being disturbed. The last thing that my colleague has raised is about compensation. I know I have said it in this House several times that we are going to bring a revised Wildlife Bill. Among the issues that will feature is increasing the compensation amount from the current level that the law allows. We had to review the Bill again after the new Constitution was put in place. Very soon, I believe in a few weeksâ time, we will be engaging the Committee that oversees my Ministry and the stakeholders so that we can begin the process of taking the final Bill to the Cabinet and finally to this House for enactment.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine relates to the country-wide problem with regard to that kind of conflict. You are addressing the issue of Kiambere Dam, probably because a Question has been brought here. You have said that you will dispatch a team to look for solutions which are available for that particular area. What plans are there to
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, we have kept all our wildlife rangers on high alert in areas that have been reporting wildlife hotspots. That does not only concern crocodiles but elephants, snakes and other animals which attack people. We encourage members of the public and, especially, my colleagues that, as soon as they get this information--- That is because we may not be everywhere all the time. Please, do pass that information to the nearest KWS offices. If not, I am always here. I am always with you in the House here. I have always been participating in the Sessions in the House. Please, alert me and I will make my officers do the job that they are supposed to do.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for the answer. Indeed, I was to be part of the meeting this morning, where these critical issues were raised. People are not just a statistic. People come from families. Sometimes they are breadwinners and they are members of communities. So, when we have issues of death, I would hope that the Government would be seen to be acting because, if people lose faith in the Government, then you have a problem. Can I plead that the Ministries that are dealing with this issue, namely, the Ministry of Regional Development Authorities, through TARDA, the Ministry of Energy, through the KenGen Company and the Ministry of Wildlife and Forestry, through the KWS take these issues in a cross- section manner? A meeting at Ministerial level may be very helpful. From those five dams, namely, Masinga, Kamburu, Gitaru, Kindaruma and Kiambere, we get 60 per cent of our electricity â a major national resource in terms of national wealth.
Order, Member for Gachoka! I know that you are giving useful information but bear in mind that it is Question Time. You have spent three minutes and you have not asked a question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand guided. Can I ask the Assistant Minister to, as a matter of urgency, ensure that an inter-Ministerial meeting takes place, to which key leaders from around those dams are invited, so that we can find a permanent and sustainable solution to this problem?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that will, indeed, be in the pipeline. I have instructed my Permanent Secretary to write to the other Ministries that have a stake in the Seven Forks Dams. They include the Ministry of Energy and the Ministry of Regional Development Authorities. Immediately after the stakeholdersâ meeting that is going to take place on the ground on Wednesday next week, we will hold a meeting of key policy makers. We will invite Members of Parliament from around those dams, whose people face this problem, so that we can re-look at the solutions that will have been suggested by the stakeholders on the ground, and see the best way to implement them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Ministry spends a lot of money on compensation. Now that we happen to be thinking of reviewing the Wildlife Act, they might even be entangled in spending more money. It is not only in those dams where we have problems. Even along River Tana in Tana River District, there are hotspots where people cannot go and get water. Can I ask the Ministry to be diverting certain amounts of money to development of the watering points, so that members of the public do not seek compensation, but are enabled to get water without crocodiles striking him?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member will realise that the responsibility of provision of water is with the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. Ours is to make sure
Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that we are talking about crocodiles, I hope that the Ministry is also concerned about buffaloes which are giving us hell, and elephants from Turkana South National Park and Nasolot, where the Assistant Minister comes from. What plans does the Government have to minimise human-wildlife conflict?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that may be a different Question, but let me attempt to answer it. I know that the KWS has been having dialogue with West Pokot County Council and Turkana County Council, because the national reserves in their areas are under the responsibility of the county councils. The KWS only manages them. One of the biggest problems that we face in those national parks is basically invasions by pastoral groups that live inside the parks. This has made elephants to look for an alternative habitat. A case in point is the last two weeks where we lost two elephants because of the people who are living inside the reserve. We will continue engaging the two county councils to ensure that there is minimum interference with the elephant ecosystem, which makes them move outside the areas they normally graze.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Assistant Minister to consider one thing; in this case, we are talking of a minority community, which is protected by Article 56 of the Constitution. The use of the crocodiles in the dam has not been established. If so, I would like him to tell us how they use the crocodiles.
Order! Order! One question at a time! Even the last supplementary question is one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us when we shall have the petitioned inter-Ministerial policy-level meeting, so that we can tell the communities that the final decision will be reached by an inter-Ministerial meeting expected to take place on a specific date? If he can tell us that, I will stick to it and be obliged.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have promised to convene the inter-Ministerial meeting immediately after the stakeholdersâ meeting that is going to take place on the ground on Wednesday, next week. In relation to the second question he was asking, indeed, one of the measures we have put in place along the Tana River to reduce the crocodile population is to license some of the crocodile farmers to collect eggs. We do this through the communities. This is one of the options we need to re-look into in all the other affected areas, so that we can reduce this particular problem now and in the future.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to answer this Question without appreciating the fact that although crocodiles look stone-age and crude, they are very cunning animals and if you do not supply them with food, they will continue eating people around Kiambere?
Order! That is not a point of order. It does not pass the test, I am afraid!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that the Kisumu Municipal Council is in the process of disposing off Anderson and Arina Estates, contrary to the Governmentâs directive to local authorities not to sell fixed assets pending the actualization of counties and, if so, what is the justification? (b) Could the Minister urgently halt the process?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that the Kisumu Municipal Council is in the process of disposing of Anderson and Arina estates in a debt swop arrangement with the statutory debtors. The Council has not been able to service the following outstanding debts:- (i) The National Housing Corporation (NHC) â Kshs525,126,414. (ii) The Local Authorities Pension Fund (LAPTRUST) â Kshs269,984,795. (iii) The Local Authority Provident Fund - Kshs141,342,390. The existence of these debts means that the Municipal Council of Kisumu cannot access the Local Authority Transfer Fund (LATF) for the Financial Year 2010/2011 before these debts are cleared as per the LATF regulations and requirements. (b) The process cannot be halted because the Council has followed all the necessary procedures in regard to the disposal of the assets. Besides, the Cabinet has given approval for the Council to dispose of these estates in a debt swop basis with their creditors. (c) The debts owed to the Local Authorities Provident Fund and the Local Authorities Pension Fund attract high rate of interests and penalties. Failure to clear these debts has crippling effect on the Council. For this reason, the Kisumu Municipal Council needed to find an urgent solution to these debts. In addition, the debts are actually owed to the workers of the Local Authorities who are the sponsors of the Pension Fund and as such the property remains in public hands.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Anderson Estate in Kisumu is one of the oldest estates and houses the staff of the municipality. Arina is similarly one of the oldest and one of the biggest. If there was a real need for the Council to dispose of these two estates, why was it not necessary for the Council to consult the locals, particularly the residents, so that those who are living in these houses are given first priority to purchase them, if they can afford?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the main negotiations were between the creditors of the Fund. This is not the first time we have had this arrangement and in many instances we have found that it will be a very cumbersome arrangement where every single individual would be paying money to the creditors.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a former Mayor of Kisumu. Anderson, Arina and other estates were part of the Uhuru Deal in 1963 where the Government, which had recently attained Independence, promised housing to the poor. These estates were financed by loans from Japan and other places. The loans were written off by the
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! Allow the Assistant Minister---
Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! You know the rules!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very sure and certain that the NHC is owed Kshs525 million and I am sure there is documentary evidence to show that. More importantly, if there is something that would have gone wrong in terms of saying that this debt does not exist, I would request the Member to provide that documentary evidence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question of debts in our county councils and municipalities is rampant. Kisumu must be lucky to have these estates to sell. Could the Assistant Minister confirm that he has issued instructions to the Municipality to sell and they have actually sold these estates?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can confirm that all due process has been followed including getting the Cabinet approval for the sale of these assets. So, all the necessary procedures have been followed as should have been and as such, the Council would suffer if this sale was not to go through.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has clearly said that he has a letter from the NHC showing the amount of debt. Is he correct to talk about that amount on the basis of a letter while we can show him evidence that the loans were written off in the 1960? Can I be given time---
Order! Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! That is a matter of argument!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that the Kisumu Municipality cannot access the LATF funds. This is a very viable municipality and instead of selling these two important estates, can they not look for other properties which they can liquidate in order to settle these debts?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, obviously, the municipal council did a due diligence. I can certify here that, in fact, the Council is getting a deal. The valuation from the Ministry of Lands for Arina Estate was Kshs485 million and Kshs72 million for Anderson Estate. This is going to clear a debt that is more than Kshs800 million. I think the Kisumu Municipal Council is getting a deal. This is not unique in the sense that even the Nairobi City Council had such a swop arrangement with Madaraka Estate and the Members of Parliament and the residents of Kisumu should be satisfied with what is happening.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Local Government is the custodian of public property held by local authorities. In these circumstances, the Assistant Minister has said that they did not want to sell the houses in these estates to the residents because it would be cumbersome. Is this not a way of denying the local people who are able, but individuals, from buying the properties? This is certainly going to the rich.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, such an arrangement can be further reached once the NHC has done the swop and as such be able to conclude any deal with any individuals.
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he could apprise the House on the status of the Nairobi Beautification Programme; and, (b) whether he could also consider rolling out a similar programme in other towns and cities in the country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will reply in point form because I have a four page long answer. (a) I wish to update the House on the status of Nairobi Beautification Programme as follows:-
1. Establishing and maintenance of gardens which will include the improvement of aesthetics of the city through a multi-disciplinary initiative with various Ministries.
2. The rehabilitation and maintenance of gardens along the expansive road networks in estates and health facilities.
3. The establishment and maintenance of gardens in roundabouts through the public sector involvement.
4. Maintenance of vast lawns along the city roads and parks.
5. The Council has also continued to reach out to property owners to undertake initiatives of improvement along the frontages. The initiative has seen numerous frontages being well landscaped and previously unkempt hedges being well manicure.
6. The Council has been enforcing by-laws. The beautification programme is being done through the Annual Performance Contracts and Rapid Results Initiatives which has seen the planting of more than 2 million trees. There has been effort to protect the already existing cover and promoting it by ensuring all existing unnecessary vegetation is cleared. The Council has been promoting tree planting through partners such as the Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC) and KWS. The Council has embarked on revitalization of its plant nursery in the City Park. Additionally, establishing of other satellite nurseries is being worked on. (b) The beautification programme is also being rolled out through all other local authorities. This is through a circular dated 23rd January, 2009 and also through the Rapid Results Initiative (RRI).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Government is doing a good job on the beautification programme, one aspect which has been left out is housing. The Government does not inspect residential dwellings, even commercial and industrial buildings. What efforts will the Government put in place to ensure that by-laws and building codes are followed to the letter and that the Government inspects properties in particular residential properties to ensure that they are in acceptable standards? There is no point of dressing and beautifying outside while inside, the state is not acceptable.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we finalize on the beautification process, we will re-energize our efforts to enhance inspection by ensuring compliance. As such, we have given that circular that also outlines the requirements of inspection.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, which organization was involved in removing flowers and tree plants on Uhuru Highway between Haile Selassie Avenue and Nyayo Stadium and placing there stones and then you can see that they are trying to plant again? Which organization was behind that and who met the cost of that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Council was not responsible for that particular exercise. If it was within a Government agency, it must have been an ad hoc arrangement of which you saw the Council take action and correct the situation. Now we have very good vegetation on that section.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have just heard the Assistant Minister say that the Council was not involved. The Council is supposed to be responsible. Is he in order to mislead the House because the Council must have known that that was happening?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the point here is that whichever agency undertook the exercise, the council did take action and continued and now it has been beautified.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister says the programme has been rolled out to other authorities. In Machakos County and even in my constituency, the local authority has stopped sweeping markets. There are no cleaners in markets. The local authority does not even have latrines or toilets in the markets. So, I am just curious to know what beautification programme the Ministry has rolled out in other local authorities when the local authorities have already stopped doing what they are expected to do. A good example is a market like Kivingoni in my constituency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I am not in a position to talk about 175 municipalities, in particular the hon. Member mentioned Machakos. We were there recently where we opened an Eco toilet. If there are any specific issues that require our
asked the Minister for Lands:-
(a) what qualifies a district to have Land Tribunal and what the membership of such a tribunal is,
(b) why he has not constituted a District Land Tribunal in Tana River; and,
(c) when the Ministry will constitute and gazette the tribunal in the district.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek the indulgence of the House for me to answer this Question on Wednesday because the answer which has been submitted to my office is incorrect and I have consulted the Questioner regarding this matter.
Is that so, Member for Bura?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would be comfortable with Tuesday. I do not know why he is pushing it to Wednesday because this is information which is available within his docket.
Mr. Assistant Minister, are you able to answer on Tuesday?
Tuesday afternoon is not possible because the Commissioner of Lands is currently out of the country and he is expected back on Tuesday. So, if I could just get Wednesday, Thursday or any other date after that, I will be comfortable.
Very well. I will direct that the Question appears on the Order Paper on Wednesday afternoon.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to ask Question No.756 on behalf of the Member for Samburu East who is away accompanying the President to Emali.
on behalf of
asked the Minister for Industrialization:-
(a) whether he could indicate the potential of â Gum Arabic â and â Gum Resinis â in northern Kenya; and,
(b) when the Government will establish a gum and resin factory at Sere Olipi in Samburu East, which has abundant Acacia Commiphora trees.
I have that notice that you will ask Question No.756. Other than that, I also have a letter from the Ministry of Industrialization to the effect that there has been agreement between the Minister and the Member for Samburu East that this Question be deferred to Tuesday next week. When you did come to see me, I did not have this letter. Now I have this letter indicating that they have mutually agreed for this Question to be deferred to Tuesday next week at 2.30 p.m. So, do you agree?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no problem with that.
The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government, you could hold brief for the Government. We have given directions on this matter fairly frequently in the past that Ministries should address their letters properly written, either by the Minister to the Speaker, or by the Permanent Secretary to the Clerk. We will not accept all and sundry to address the Speaker, including very junior officers.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will make sure that this message is relayed to all the ministries.
Very well. Next Question by Mr. Bahari! He is not here? His Question is dropped.
Next Question by Mr. M.H. Ali!
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal SecurityĂˇ (a) whether he is aware that Mr. Abdikadir Mohamed Hassan (P/FNo.80729), a GSU Police Officer in the Recce Company, was dismissed from the Service;
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that Adikadir Mohammed Hassan was dismissed from the Police Service with effect from 19th February, 2008. (b) Abdikadir Mohammed Hassan was dismissed from the service following serious disciplinary proceedings after he absented himself from duty for 48 days without reasonable cause. Before the disciplinary action, he was involved in a road accident along Kiserian-Magadi Road on 24th March, 2007 while travelling in a vehicle GK A500E. He sustained a cut on the forehead and a pelvic injury. He was admitted at Kenyatta National Hospital and was discharged on 3rd April, 2007 after full recovery. Therefore, that cannot be cited as a reason for absenting himself. Previously, the officer had two other similar disciplinary cases. (c) The Minister cannot reinstate the ex-officer because a charge of absenteeism from duty without due permission is a very serious disciplinary offence, while desertion is a criminal offence. Further, due to the aforesaid, he does not qualify to be paid any dues, unfortunately.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have heard the Assistant Minister say that Abdikadir sustained a cut on his forehead and a pelvic injury. When he was discharged from the hospital, he did not recover properly. He went home to recover properly. Could the Assistant Minister inform the House why it took so long for the Commandant to see that Abdikadir was not in a position to report back so that he could perform his duties? Secondly, given that he was given leave for those days to be away, when was he called to report back to his office?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, disciplinary action was not just taken because he left to go to hospital. If you allow me, let me give my friend here the chronology of the events or the background of that particular officer. On 21st October, 2007 at about 19.15 hours at GSU Turkwell Camp in West Pokot District in Rift valley, the ex-constable absented himself without leave for a period of 10 days. He entered plea of guilt and he was convicted and sentenced to a fine of Kshs3,917. He accepted that one. Between11th November at about 08.00 hours and 29th November 2007 at about 18.02 hours at GSU Turkwell Camp within West Pokot District in Rift Valley Province, the constable absented himself again without leave for 18 working days. He was dealt with in orderly room proceedings and was convicted on his own plea and sentenced to a fine of Kshs7,050. Mr. Speaker, Sir, again, on 18th December, 2007, the ex-constable absented himself from duty for a period of 21 days and he was declared a deserter. He had stayed away for 21 days without us knowing where he was. So, he had to be declared a deserter. That is what the Police Force regulations stipulate. The ex-constable resurfaced on 4th February 2008 and reported on his own volition to Ruiru GSU Camp after being absent
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Am I in order to request the Assistant Minister to table that information? That is because I do not have access to that information?
Very well. Mr. Assistant Minister, is there any difficulty on your part to table that information?
Yes, I can share the information with him because there is nothing I am hiding. This is the whole truth. If I would have been able to assist, I would. But my hands are tied because of the disciplinary record of the officer.
Very well. When you finish, please table that information.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has just given the chronology of the indiscipline of the officer. But he has not given any information about the sick leave, or the days that he was sick. That is because from the answer he has given, the officer was admitted on 24th March and dismissed on 3rd April. That is just a week. Did the officer take any sick leave? Which are the dates that he was away?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mentioned here that the officer was not dismissed because he was in the hospital. I said that the officer had absented himself for 48 days. I also mentioned that he was a deserter for 21 days. In a disciplined force, you are not allowed to desert even for two days. That is because we do not know whether you are a criminal or whether you have gone to carry out criminal activities. This is a disciplined force and so, we cannot allow such cases. We also go by the standing orders of the Police Force.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us whether the officer was able to walk? That is because he told us that he had a pelvic injury? From what we know, when somebody has a pelvic injury, it will take quite some time before he is able to perform his duties. Was he able to walk and perform the duties of whatever he was trained for?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would not say that because he deserted. I would not know whether he was able to walk or not. However, if you want me to find out now that he is an ex-constable, I can still do the same.
Very well. Question No.2 by Private Notice is deferred to next week, Thursday at 2.30 p.m.
to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance-: (a) Under what circumstances did the Government cancel the three year contract with Ms De La Rue International PLC of UK signed in May, 2006 to print 1.71 billion pieces of new generation bank notes at a cost of US$51.2 million and what economies have been made out of the cancellation up to March 30, 2011? (b) How many pieces of bank notes were printed between May, 2006 and 30th March, 2011 and how much money has the Government spent on the contracts during that period? (c) When will the Government conform with Article 231 (4) of the Constitution and what steps has the Government taken in order to conform?
Next Order! Hon. Members, I think there are two Statements due for delivery, beginning with the one from the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, nominated Member of Parliament, hon. Shebesh, asked whether we could give the position of the Ministry in regard to the age limit which had been spelt out in the electoral code of Football Kenya elections set in Article 9(b) Clause 2(c)(d) and (e) of that criteria.
I want to state that any person contesting for any position in the federation must fulfill the following conditions as ratified by FIFA:-
(a) For the post of chairman and vice-chairman of the National Executive Committee, one must be at least 35 years of age and should be not be older than 70 years.
(b) For the National Executive Committee one must be 30 years of age.
(c) For the branch officials of the football federation relations, one must be at least 25 years of age.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 27th October, 2010 the FIFA Associationâs Committee mandated Mr. Ligala Tenga, President of Tanzania Football Federation and chairman of CECAFA to consult Kenyan football stakeholders and make recommendations for the nominations of an independent electoral board (IEB) which would be entrusted with the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me first thank the Assistant Minister for the quick response. Even yesterday, he was ready to give us that Statement. Therefore, I would like the Assistant Minister, given his admission that this is unconstitutional, to tell us for how long this bullying by FIFA in the running of football in our country will continue and whether or not FIFA rules can be above those that are in our Constitution.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, our Constitution is very clear. If you go to Article 27(4) it says that the state shall not discriminate directly or indirectly against any person on any ground and one of the grounds is age. The Assistant Minister is very much aware that the supremacy of the Constitution of Kenya is not in doubt. Whichever electoral code or FIFA rules, it does not matter because our Constitution is supreme. Therefore, is he telling us that in the meantime, before FIFA decides to co-operate, that he does not uphold the supremacy of the Constitution by telling the electoral board not to do something which is unconstitutional until FIFA decides to go ahead? Are you going to compromise on that Article of the Constitution just to please FIFA?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister clarify where those electoral rules were formulated? Were they formulated within the country and then exported to FIFA or were they formulated by FIFA? If they were formulated in this country, why did they not conform to our Constitution?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the Ministry that is responsible for affairs touching on the young people in this country. Fortunately, this Ministry has the benefit of being run by some of the most youthful Members of the Government and appropriately so. Could he give assurance and comfort to the young people of this country that the Ministry, notwithstanding this policy position, will do everything within its powers and in accordance with the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya to allow every young person in this country that desires to seek a position in this election to do so?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the youthful Assistant Minister for being mindful of the youth. Could he clarify whether FIFA rules are conventions? If they are not, then the only way you can limit any right under the Constitution, especially the rights under Article 27, is by Article 24. You cannot limit them by FIFA rules. You can only limit them constitutionally. What is the Assistant Minister going to do to advise FIFA that there are laws in Kenya which apply, unless we have adopted FIFA rules as a convention which we have not?
Assistant Minister, you may respond.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform the Assistant Minister.
Order! The Assistant Minister has not even started to respond. So, let him respond. Do not underestimate his capacity! Inform him after he begins to respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wanted to inform him as a former chairman of---
Order, Member for Gatanga!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will respond and then request to be informed thereafter by the former chairman.
That is how it should be!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to answer Mrs. Shebesh, it is straight forward. There is no regulation, whether FIFA or any other international code, which can be above our national Constitution. If any clause in any regulation, including these guidelines, is inconsistent with any clause of our national Constitution, it is null and void to the extent of that inconsistency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to answer Mr. Mbadi, indeed, as a Ministry, we are going to submit an immediate concern to FIFA through the Independent Electoral Board (IEB) for the football federation. We will expect that no elections will be conducted before these concerns are addressed. If that is deemed to be Government interference, indeed, it is legitimate for the youth of Kenya. To answer the hon. Member for Nyakach, the Electoral Code was formulated by the IEB internally. Perhaps, to make an observation, it could be because none of the eight members fell within the bracket of the youthful age of between 18 years and 35 years, and we did not want to arouse unnecessary controversy. We wanted a good result. There was an oversight in that the importance of the youth was overlooked. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is also good to note that sports is essentially about young people aged between 18 years and 35 years. To say that they cannot contest elections for federations, whose mandate is about their sector is an insult. While we submit this concern to FIFA it is also important to notify the IEB, as Kenyans, that there was a bit of uncautious decision in that regard. To answer Mr. Namwamba, as a very informed lawyer, I would concur with him that any regulation that does not accord with the national Constitution, and is meant for an organization or a group or citizens of Kenya amounts to a violation of the Constitution. I would like to assure this House that as a Ministry in charge of the youth and sports, we shall not allow any decision, whether internally made or externally approved, to violate or tarnish the very historic gains that have been made. Therefore, we are giving a very strong assurance. The youth of this country, whom I have learnt this morning notified a certain police station of an intended demonstration on this matter tomorrow, should rest assured that the Ministry in charge of sports and youth affairs is conscious of their concerns. They need not to be worried. We shall not sit and allow them to be stripped of their gains.
Very well! Assistant Minister, do you want to be informed not withstanding that you have concluded your response?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Peter Kenneth was the chairman of the Kenya Football Federation (KFF) and it worked very well. This world has had many young people who have delivered. I kindly invite him to inform me.
Order, Assistant Minister! Do you want to be informed?
He should come forward and inform us.
Do you want to be informed? Yes or No!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to encourage the Ministry to take that issue very seriously. This is because I was the Chairman of KFF for a good four years in what has been termed as a good term. I became the Chairman and left after four years before I reached the age of 35 years. Therefore, it is also important that some of my colleagues, including the then Chairman of the Liberian Football, the famous footballer, George Weah, was also below the age of 35 years. Very many Presidents of football associations all over the world who participated in meetings of FIFA statutes were below the age of 35 years. Kenya should not be an excuse for extension of the old order.
Mr. Assistant Minister, are you happy with that information?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me to say that I am happy, I would also say this; whether you are talking about microsoft or Sessional Paper No.10 initiated by the late hon. Tom Mboya the former Minister for National Planning and Economic Development and deputized by the now President Mwai Kibaki, those were young Kenyans under the age of 30 years. At one time, we learned that the Constitution had to be changed by a mafia team to prevent the meteoric rise of Tom Mboya by requiring that a President had to be above 35 years of age. The message that must go to the---
Order! Order! The area you are now going into is not quite relevant.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Last year I rose on a point of order and sought a Ministerial Statement from the Ministry of Agriculture on the rising cost of food. The Minister had pledged to give that Statement today.
Minister for Forestry and Wildlife, when can this Statement be brought here?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the House, I undertake to inform the Minister for Agriculture of the urgency of this matter.
I direct that the Statement be brought on Wednesday next week in the morning.
That is the information I will give to the Minister.
Very well. Hon. Members, you should have heard a Statement which the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife is ready to deliver this afternoon, but the Member for Molo who requested the Statement is not in the House. I do not have any explanation as to why he is not here. That notwithstanding, because he had the major interest in the matter, I will defer that Statement to be delivered on Thursday next week at 2.30 p.m. Order, hon. Members!
Do you have a Statement? I am not on notice. You may proceed; I was just about to close that sector, but you may proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.36(4) I take this opportunity to make the following Statement with regard to the business of the week commencing Tuesday 19th April 2011. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the House will go into the Committee of the Whole on the Tourism Bill (Bill N0.19 of 2010) on Tuesday. Also, the House will debate the Motion on the Budget Policy Statement, and the Motion by the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources concerning the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. Finally, the House Business Committee will convene on that day, Tuesday 19th April 2011, to consider business for the rest of the week. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am rising for the fifth time to inquire into when they are allocating time for us to debate the report on sugar. It appeared briefly on the Order Paper, and subsequently---
Order, the hon. Member for Naivasha! As a matter of fact, my attention has already been brought to that matter by the Member for Mumias. It is settled that this matter will be raised before the House Business Committee on Tuesday, next week to see if it can be allotted time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In moving this Bill on Tuesday, this week, I did indicate that it was important to consult. I do confirm to the House that I have consulted very widely today under the able chairmanship of the Departmental Committee on Health and the following parties did attend and made their contribution, all of them agreeing on the way forward. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the parties that I consulted were the Ministry of Medical Services, the Ministry of public Health and Sanitation, the Commission for Higher Education, the Kenya Medical Training College, the University of Nairobi, Kenyatta University, Moi University, Masinde Muliro University of Science and Technology, the National Nurses Association of Kenya and the Kenya Progressive Nurses Association. All of them agreed that this amendment is long overdue. It is long overdue because from 1991 when the then Minister for Health indicated that nurses can engage in private practice, there has not been any substantive legislative move to ensure that this is done harmoniously and in harmony with the existing statutes. The Nursing Council of Kenya (NCK) was established under Cap.257 of 1983 with the core mandate of, among other things, regulating and licensing of nurses. Over time, and I want to emphasize, it has become necessary to make sure that we have nurses of a particular cadre that are properly enlisted, having satisfied certain requirements to avoid quacks calling themselves nurses, doctors et cetera . The situation in the country right now is not very friendly. The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that we are 50 per cent--- All the nurses that we require currently, based on the registers are at 50 per cent. This means that we need to fast-track this legislation process because there are many of them from various institutions, like I have mentioned earlier, who would like to be registered but cannot be registered for that particular reason.
Order, Member for Naivasha! Some of the things you are saying are pretty obvious. We do not expect anybody who is not a Member of this House to second a Bill!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected, but I just thought that it is good--- Just as you have said in previous occasions, that in this House we have 60 per cent professionals. We appreciate these professionals in that aspect!
It is not very easy to please. But carry on.
Thank you, Chair and she is smiling.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, he got me smiling.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to second this amendment. I want to thank hon. Mututho for being mindful about the welfare of nurses. As he says, I am very passionate about nurses for three reasons. One, as a woman, we ordinarily have the nurturing and caring role that is God given. As I speak as a human right activist, I know that my nurturing and caring roles are God given. Therefore, I am at heart a nurse. Secondly, my mother before she changed profession was a nurse. She practiced for a short while, before she changed the nursing role and moved to a different professional that could enable her take care of us, still as a nurse. Thirdly, I also uphold the nursing profession, because last year, I was privileged to be hospitalized for two weeks, when I underwent surgery. I want to say that this is a very noble profession. I have never been in hospital for that long. The care that I got from the nurses, and I am saying from my heart was actually amazing. The nurses were from Nairobi Hospital.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise in support of this Bill, which seeks to improve governance in the nursing profession.
I want to retrace the history of nursing started by one Florence Nightingale, and say that every woman is actually a nurse by nature ordained. Everywhere in the world, it is majority of women who care for the sick, whether in their homes or outside the home. We nurture and nurse. Those two roles go together. I would like to say that in the medical profession, the nurses interact with more patients than actually their superiors, doctors.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is time that we strengthened the law to improve, not just governance within this profession, but also improve their working conditions. I hope that as we go to the Committee Stage of this Bill, we will start looking at whether members of the nursing profession are receiving sufficient remuneration for the work that they do. No surgeon can operate without being assisted by nurses. No doctor can manage the sick without being assisted by a nurse. I know countries like Canada that have laws that compel payment on the basis of value of work; equal-pay for equal-work. If you look at the supportive role that nurses play in the management of patients, then we definitely need to look at the governance in the profession and also their
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to support this Bill. I thank the Mover for taking his time to bring the necessary amendments to the Nursing Act. The role that nurses play in this country cannot be over-emphasized. Most of us who come from rural areas know that the dispensaries that we have at home are managed by nurses. With them around, lives are saved. It is not only that. To be a nurse is a calling. That is because unless you are prepared and your mind is set to help humanity, it is very difficult to practice as a nurse. When a person is sick and he or she is not able to talk or turn around in bed or do anything, the responsibility of taking care of him or her lies with the nurses. They take care of us when we are sick. Therefore, the new Bill will not only enable the nurses to register, but also to practice as nurses. That should not be seen as if they are competing with doctors. It is also their right to practice and earn a living just like the doctors, so long as they do not go beyond what they are supposed to do. As things stand now, it is critical that we support this Bill. At times, when someone is sick, he or she may continue to
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to stand in support of the Bill. As it has been said, I would like to thank the Sponsor of the Bill, hon. Mututho, who has seen it fit at this time, to bring this Bill to this House so that nurses can have a say in this country and that, their conditions and terms of service and professionalism are recognized in an Act of Parliament. The issues that were conflicting with the present Act have been addressed. For example, there was the conflict of interest where somebody who is employed by the Government goes into private practice. Hon. Mututho has addressed the issues very well in his Bill. You will have to choose either to go into private practice or be employed by the Government. This is an important issue because it will minimize the number of people who are being taken care of by the nurses in the hospitals today. We see nurses not taking care of patients but opting to go into private practice. This Bill has addressed that issue. However, I have an issue which I think will be addressed when it comes to the Committee Stage. This is with regard to Section 12(3) (d) where it says:- âA person shall be deemed not to engage in private practice if he is employed in other public bodies. There should be examples of those public bodies and appointments where there are religious organisations that are offering nursing or health services. There are so many religious bodies offering health services. There should be criteria, so that there will be no conflict between the religious bodies when they try to appoint one of them. If it is not clear, it can cause misunderstanding, which might lead to people going to court to seek interpretation. People are very fond of going to court nowadays. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was once an accident victim. I did not know the role of nurses until that time. I was bed-ridden for 29 days. I was not allowed to sit down or turn. It was only the nurses who were taking care of me. I know that the role they play is crucial. It is, therefore, important that we pass this Bill. With those remarks, I beg to support.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could the Mover to be asked to reply?
Mr. Oyongo-Nyamweya, you are completely out of order. You have already spoken. By moving that the Mover be now called upon to reply, you are denying other hon. Members the opportunity to speak on the Motion. Yes, Mr. Mbadi!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to, quickly, support this Motion. I guarantee that I will not take more than three minutes.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is hon. Mbadi in order to suggest that the Mututho law that is in place is instilling fear in him, yet he does not drink?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, she is right, but I said that it is causing pain to some of my constituents, who drink. Having said that, I want to thank hon. Mututho for bringing such legislation before the House. Looking at this Bill, it is clear that hon. Mututho wants to restructure the Council by reducing the Council membership from 21 to 13. To me, this is commendable because, in this country, we are used to very big councils and committees, which, in essence, are very ineffective. So, coming up with a more effective system, to me, is commendable. It is an idea we need to support. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, another thing which has come out very clearly in hon. Mututhoâs Bill is that he wants us to control the practice by nurses by putting in place a more defined way through which nurses can register and get practising certificates. This Bill will also go a long way in defining or helping nurses to know exactly what constitutes professional misconduct. As hon. Members are aware, in this country, we have had many cases of complaints of professionals doing things which amount to what, in our view, is professional misconduct. I am happy that we are now going to have a law which is going to define explicitly what would constitute professional misconduct on the part of nurses. Finally, the amendment that is proposed in this Bill will go a long way in defining how the Council is going to conduct its business when they are called upon to inquire into alleged professional misconduct by nurses. We have heard of cases where people complained of professional misconduct. The relevant professional bodies conducted inquiries and exonerated those professionals. The question that comes to mind is: Is there a defined way of conducting inquiries? Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank hon. Mututho because this is a matter which is addressed by this Bill in the case of nurses, so that we may know how nurses will be held responsible for professional misconduct. With those remarks, I beg to support.
Hon. Members, since there are no more contributors, I would like to call upon the Mover to reply.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this Bill, particularly for their consciousness in dealing with matters to do with unprofessional behaviour by nurses, and their registration. I have taken on board all their comments. I will study them very carefully from the HANSARD and incorporate them into the Bill during the Committee Stage, so that everybody can be taken on board.
I want to reiterate that I have consulted very widely amongst all the people in the medical field. I expect that anything they will have said will be incorporated into the Bill through amendments during the Committee Stage. I once again want to thank all those who have contributed for noting that at one point or another, one might require to be nursed. The nursing officer who will attend to you is so important.
Hon. Members, you will remember that Orders 9 and 10 were deferred by the Chair. So, we will now go to Order No.11.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, this `House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources on alleged corruption in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, and its agents (the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation, and the TANATHI Water Services Board), laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 13th April, 2011.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the mandate of the Committee that I am honoured to Chair is clearly spelt out in the Standing Orders. The Committee oversees four Ministries, namely the Ministry of Lands, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources, and the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife.
The Members of the Committee are the hon. Peris Simam, MP, Vice-Chairlady; the hon. Mureithi, MP; the hon. Washiali, MP; the hon. Silas Muriuki Ruteere, MP; the hon. Kiema Kilonzo, MP; the hon. Benedict Fondo Gunda, MP; the hon. Kizito, MP; the hon. Njuguna Gitau, MP; the hon. Mohammed Affey, MP; the hon. Mbwana Omar Zonga, MP, and the hon. Mutava Musyimi, Chairman.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the investigations into the alleged corruption in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, and its agents, were a result of two pieces of correspondence, which the Committee received on 2nd and 11th November, 2010. The correspondences were given to the Committee by hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri, MP; former Assistant Minister, Ministry of Water and Irrigation, and currently Assistant Minister, Ministry of Public Works and Member for Laikipia East.
In his submission on the issue of the alleged corruption in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, hon. Kiunjuri alleged the following:- (i) there was conspiracy to cover issues of serious accountability and integrity by the Permanent Secretary (PS) in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation; He alleged that the Permanent Secretary (PS), Treasury, sent a letter to the PS, Ministry of Water and Irrigation regarding issues of accountability as raised by the Kenya
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to second this Motion. My able Chairman, Mr. Mutava Musyimi, has given the background and the in depth summary of the Report, which is very detailed and has exhaustively dealt with all the allegations that were presented by Mr. Mwangi Kiunjuri, the Assistant Minister for Public Works. I am a Member of that Committee that was investigating the alleged corruption. I was privy to all the hearings, except very few. So, what has been said by my Chairman is very true. I want only to summarize the sequence of events. Before embarking on evidence analysis, observations and recommendations, the Committee wishes to offer a chronology of events. I believe that revolves around the whole issue of alleged corruption in the Ministry and its agents. In particular, we need to establish whether the motive of the allegations by the former Assistant Minister and actions taken by the Minister do have any relevance to the inquiry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Charity Ngilu, EGH, MP, Minister for Water and Irrigation, was appointed in April 2008 to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. The hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri, MGH, MP, was appointed an Assistant Minister in the same Ministry in April 2008. That is, they were appointed at the same time. He served in this capacity until 18th October 2010 when he was transferred to the Ministry in which he is currently, the Ministry of Public Works. The WASREB Report was launched in March 2010, and was received by the Ministry in April 2010. It took almost a month for this Report to be done. The Report was used by both the Minister and Assistant Minister either to take action or to raise the allegations.
I beg to second!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Report on allegations of corruption in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and its agents.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to commend this Committee for a very thorough work, and for a report that is well researched and very informative.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I want to thank this Committee for having gone as far as Marsabit, where Badasa Dam is being constructed at the moment. I have had an opportunity to visit it with the Minister and other Members of Parliament of the Marsabit County. Whatever is going on there, it is very impressive work.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that you have been to Marsabit as a young professional in some time of your life as a Research Assistant with the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI). That is one town, where water has been a major problem. Up to now, we depend on springs which dry up, whenever the dry spell kicks in. We use tankers to get water from as far as 40 kilometres. Today, this Ministry with the leadership of hon. Ngilu, has invested over Kshs1 billion. Once and for all, the headquarters of Marsabit County will not have water problems that it has been having for the last 50 years.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, going back to the Report, it is very clear that there are issues for sure, with those State corporations. There are governance issues. However, the Minister has taken the necessary administrative action and responsibility to deal with those issues from the front. It is very clear that she dismissed two CEOs of that State corporation; National Water and Pipeline Corporation as well as Tanathi Water Service Board. She dismissed the board of directors and appointed new ones to give it a new life. She went as far as stopping fraudulent payments of over Kshs500 million. In the report, it is well stated that she even sought support of forensic audit and as a result, saving Kenya taxpayers Kshs1.1 billion, which would have gone to waste.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, she even managed to retrieve some funds that were paid to Elbourgon Stores Limited to a tune of Kshs26 million. It is very clear that these allegations that were made are baseless from this report. I have no doubt in the work of the Committee of this House, when I know they have done very thorough work and went as far as my County.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Report on the alleged corruption by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief because I would like other people to be able to contribute. I just want to say that this issue has taken its toll through the media and this House. It has caused unnecessary tensions. As the Committee has rightly said, the whistleblower, hon. Kiunjuri allowed certain issues to come out before this investigation. But critically, what also has come out is that clearly, the allegations against the Minister and the turmoil that she has had to undergo through media scrutiny, were unnecessary and unfounded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I really want to call upon this House, that if we are going to deal with issues of corruption, let us do so, without witch-hunting and other motives. Let us work on issues of anti-corruption in a way that moves this country forward so that we put an end to this vice. However, once it is done through the kind of method and conclusion that has been drawn here, it does put a bit of doubt in Kenyansâ minds, whether or not we are playing politics or really working towards eliminating corruption.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to say that the Minister has proved that she continues to be very straight forward in her work. We support her work. Most importantly, we hope that the report helps us to move forward on this issue. Therefore, we can stop the tension that has been building on this particular issue.
With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the tabling of this report.
Indeed, let me congratulated the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources for having tabled a very comprehensive report. This report clarifies some of the issues that have been hanging without clarification that laid blames to the Minister and some of her team. We have, indeed, seen from the report, what the Chairman and the seconder have presented in this House; that, indeed, some of these allegations are unfounded---
On a point order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Would I be I be in order to move that the Mover be called upon to reply, going by the mood of the House?
Order, hon. Odhiambo Mabona!
All you need is to see the interest of people who want to contribute. So, that cannot be granted at this moment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said, the investigation by the Committee has actually established that the Minister, hon. Ngilu has conducted herself above reproach by her actions. The actions that she took even before the investigations began proved that she had nothing to be blamed on. Equally so, I would like to tell the Assistant Minister that although his allegations have not been found to be correct, I believe that whistle-blowing is important. Each one of us has a responsibility to make sure that public funds are utilized in the best way. I can only urge the Minister, and all organs of Government that are responsible to make sure that public funds are utilized in the best way. The Government should take up the recommendations that have been put forward by the Committee and make sure that action is taken. Lastly, we have a drought situation in the country. It is more or less a famine situation. One of the biggest problems, apart from food, is the scarcity of water. When I first heard the allegation that the Minister had pumped more water into Machakos, I thought that this was a new strategy to resolve a problem in one area of the country and then move to another area.
Two weeks ago, when I visited Turkana County with the Minister, we went to quite a number of places. I believe that she has also visited North Eastern and Upper Eastern. I believe the Ministry has a strategic plan to resolve water problems that Kenyans are experiencing. With those few remarks, I support the adoption of the Report.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also hope that I will have as much peace as those who have contributed. I have looked at this Report. This Report is more instructive in what it does not say than in what it says. It is the kind of a Report which appears to have had an instructorâs note to guide it. The sub-texts of it, is where I find the findings to be so interesting. I will request hon. Members to pay attention to the sub-texts of the findings. I shall demonstrate how, for some reasons known to the Committee, only the response that I gave is re-produced verbatim. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us start with the end of the bulk of the conclusions whereby we have the issues where I was supposed to be investigated; they have no room for the issues that were supposed to be investigated. With their acknowledgment that my bold position enabled certain things to happen as stated in Paragraph 1211. My words that had raised issues of concern at the Ministry are dismissed, while those of the Minister have been taken as unquestionable or as the gospel truth. It is also indicated in Paragraph 6412. That one is brought out wholesale. This Report opens by exonerating the Minister because she issued an unsolicited Ministerial Statement on 28th September, 2010. If that be the case, if any of you, hon. Members, looked at the HANSARD, you will see that she actually indicated herself, that it was because, and I quote:
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. My good friend, hon. Kiunjuri, seems to be treading on dangerous grounds by challenging the House Business Committee. He is actually challenging the integrity of Parliament and the way it conducts its business. Is it in order for him to impute improper motive on the entire House, through the House Business Committee, without substantiating?
Hon. Ruto, you are completely out of order! The Standing Orders provide for how that business should be structured. So, any hon. Member can, on the basis of the same Standing Order, raise an issue if he feels that it is not being adhered to.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kenyans are watching, and the truth will come out.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It would, therefore, be in order for the hon. Member to quote the specific Standing Order on whose basis he is challenging the inclusion of this Report in the Order Paper. It is his right to do so, but there is a procedure to be followed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have indicated clearly that I know the rules of the House. The Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, has the powers. I indicated that clearly in my submissions. Look at the authenticity of this document, it is alleged that I played golf on 26th August, 2010 with one Mary Mungai, Director of Drafts, which is one of the contractors in the dam projects, and specifically Ummaa Dam, Mr. Gikandi, a director of the Board of the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation, and Eng. Mangâoli. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairman, for whom I have a lot of regard - I have information that he is a presidential candidate in the 2012 general election, did not show any concern about it. The rules of the House demand that the authenticity of any document laid on the Table must be verified. The Committee was supposed to verify the authenticity of the document that was produced before it as evidence.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether it is in order for a matter which was handled at the Committee level to be questioned here. When the issue of playing golf came up, we dealt with it expeditiously.
Order, hon. Washiali! Hon. Members, please, raise proper points of order. The Committee has already deliberated on that matter. It is in the Report. Hon. Kiunjuri is mentioned and, therefore, he has the right to reply. Proceed, hon. Kiunjuri!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request that every time an hon. Member stands on a point of order, the clock is stopped from running. This is because the intention of some hon. Members, in raising points of order, is to derail me, and not to give information. I am accused in this Report. It is, therefore, important for the Chair to consider my request, so that even if hon. Members stand on points of order, my time is not used. Kenyans are watching. That is the only way justice will be seen to flourish. We are being watched by Kenyans, who pass judgement on Members of Parliament. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairman knows very well that the golf course---
Order! Order, hon. Members! The hon. Member on the Floor was making a request to the Chair, and not to you. I want to grant him his wish. Every hon. Member has the right to be heard.
Hon. Kiunjuri, you have the Floor. The Chair will protect your opportunity.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
I am ready to prove to this House that the Committee did not go ahead to verify the authenticity of the document that was tabled before them. I have with me, the Black Book in which all the records of the Railway Golf Club were entered in the last one year. The Clubâs Chairman, Secretary and Captain are ready to appear before this House and prove that this is the true record. If you look at the record of 26th August, 2010---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I still insist that this matter was handled effectively at the Committee level. If there were any challenges that the Assistant Minister wanted to bring forward, he would have brought them forward at that level. But as it is now, this is already in the report. Is he in order to continue misleading this House?
Order, hon. Washiali and all the other Members! He is perfectly in order to prosecute the matter. Proceed, hon. Kiunjuri!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can see the interest. This is the true document and can be proved by the Club itself. The document they allege was not the product of the Railways Golf Club. It was a photocopy, but the Committee was in a rush despite the fact that the Chairman could even summon the Chairman of the Railway Golf Club or any other official from his office. You can shout from the Continental House to the Railways Golf Club and you can be heard and ask for information. The Committee did not deem it fit to
Order, hon, Kiunjuri! Just in relation to that, you have provided this book, but there is no letter-head from the Club. There is no authentication. That is the same point that we are trying to raise and you did not even bother to do the same in terms of what you are bringing. So, the Chair cannot tell whether it is from the Kenya Railways Golf Club or any other club. So, this is not admissible for our purposes.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is true. I know that. That is why I have over-emphasized that we shall be issuing the letter. As I said, this report was tabled yesterday and nobody even expected it to be on the Floor today. Therefore, the Club is willing to do as such. I still have my right to table any other document even after this Motion. On the issue of Umaa Dam, the Committee is very much aware that this matter is in court. Parliament is of the opinion that we never discuss matters of subjudice . The Committee went ahead to make a ruling on the suitability of the contractor despite other relevant authorities, namely, the court, already having this case going on for its determination. What is even more interesting is that the Committee did not find it necessary to inform this House that I am the one who raised the issue of escalation of prices at Umaa Dam. I tabled evidence to show that the cost of the dam had already escalated by July by Kshs313 million. That was the consultant report and nobody, no authority can challenge that. This Committee did not find it fit for come and table that document here. I even tabled a document in this Committee to show that Umaa Dam was a cash cow from the beginning. The consultants had erred to an extent that they were not supposed to tender for construction of that dam. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave all this evidence. However, this Committee decided to ignore all that evidence. They went ahead to say nothing was wrong in the awarding of the contract. I was not there when the documents for tender were being prepared. Why then did I raise the issue? Would I have done so, knowing very well if they were my friends that this issue would lead to termination of this contract? I raised the issue of all the dams and all the consultants, but nobody bothered to look at all those documents. What we have here is what suits this Committee. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave the Committee further information on the issue of my investigation of this contract and the visits that I made to several other dams. This Committee did not find it fit to tell this House that I visited all other dams. I was in the process. I started with Chemususu Dam in June. I went to Kiserian the same month in June. I went to Maruba Dam in July. Umaa Dam was the fourth dam that I visited. Why have they not questioned all the other dams? But they are very much interested in this dam. That is the only question they are asking.
Order hon. Members. That document is inadmissible! It is not in your possession, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona. Do not even look at it!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was just concerned because Mr. I. Ruto is insisting that he can identify the signatures. They are from Florida 2000 Club on Koinange Street.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, nothing will provoke me. You know Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona having addressed it herself in public, therefore, she can say anything that she wants to say. She can even do it here in Parliament.
Order, hon. Members. I cannot allow Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona for you to purport that you are representing what Mr. I. Ruto was saying and to bring it to the Floor of the House. It is unsolicited; it is unnecessary and I demand that you apologize to the House.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was just concerned because hon. Ruto is insisting that he can identify the signatures and that they are from Florida 2000 Club on Koinange Street.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, nothing will provoke me. You know Mrs. Millie Odhiambo- Mabona having ever undressed herself in public and, therefore, she can say anything that she wants to say. She can even do it here in Parliament.
Order, hon. Members! I cannot allow hon. Odhiambo-Mabona for you really to purport that you are representing what hon. Ruto is saying and to bring it to the Floor of the House. It is unsolicited, unnecessary and I demand you apologize to the House.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologize even though actually Mr. Ruto did. He can confirm.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on this one, do not defend me. I am used to this. I can fight for myself.
Order! I am not defending you; I am defending the rules of the House. I do not defend anyone. I defend the dignity of this House.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. If I am provoked further, I can say more about ourselves here. So, do not open a can of worms.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Ruto.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, definitely, I will be calm. I will not allow myself to be--- Those diversionally tactics--- I am used to them. On the issue of Elburgon Stores, it is claimed that I did not raise a finger when that issue came up. That issue had come up five months before October. Secondly, despite the veracity of the matter, once again and despite serious allegations, the Elburgon Stores owner came to the Committee. But the Committee did not find it necessary to question the owner of Elburgon Stores on my relationship with him or even ask him whether he knows me. If really that was that serious, that is the first issue they could have asked for me either to accept or deny. But in his own wisdom, the presidential candidate did not find it suitable to call upon the owner of Elburgon Stores to do that.
Lastly, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir,---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Why? This is my time!
What is it Mr. Mbadi?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for now about three times, hon. Kiunjuri has referred to a presidential candidate. Are we facing elections so that we could have a presidential candidate? Could he confirm who that presidential candidate is?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he is not denying that he has interest. Why are you questioning on my behalf?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We truly need to uphold the dignity of this House. When he refers to hon. Musyimi, who is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee--- Instead of referring to him as the Chairman, he is referring to him as a presidential candidate. That is trying to degrade the roles of that Committee and the dignity of the House. Is the hon. Member in order to flout the rules of this House which he knows very well? He should refer to the hon. Member as the Chairman of the Committee or by his name.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I withdraw.
Order! Hon. Kiunjuri, restrict yourself to the Report and refer to the Member in his capacity as the Chairman of the Committee.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will refer to him as the Chairman, Rev. Mutava Musyimi. On the question that I raised â and it was so serious - on the issue of nepotism, the Committee went ahead and called the Registrar, Gachengo, to give evidence on whether she knew some of those suppliers. Suppliers like Timetrax, G.L. Williams, Cart Michaels and others. The names that were given - and that was the most serious allegation that I had raised--- Despite Gachengo giving the names of the owners of those companies - Broad Vision and the others - this Committeeâs conclusion was that it could not go further to investigate because the addresses were not given by the Registrar. An issue so serious like this one; on which the Committee had a lead on where to get the information, it did not bother to go ahead, now that it knew the companies, to verify the names. That is because already, those companies were awarded contracts to supply. Those companies were issued with Local Purchase Orders (LPOs). The companies were paid either through cheques or banks. This Committee did not have time to just rush to Kitui, where Tanathi Water Services Board is situated, to get information on those people. That is because there was an indicator of the owners of those companies.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. While I thank hon. Kiunjuri for what he is saying, I did indicate, as I was moving the Motion, that the Registrar-General appeared before us. Indeed, she had sent a junior officer and the Committee took exception. We demanded that she comes. When she came, we asked her the question very directly.
Order, Mr. Musyimi! You are on a point of order!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order to indicate that there was a relationship that was known to us and not to the Registrar-General, that those people were related to the Minister? The Registrar-General herself said that there was no legal link and there was nothing she could do about it. Is the Assistant Minister in order to speak the way he is speaking?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have gone through these documents. This Committee avoided to ask the Minister about her relationship with those individuals and companies. It is very clear and it is in this document that they avoided to ask her so that she could either deny or accept and also, they did not have enough money or time to go to Kitui and verify the information. You can know who are the owners of these companies by getting information on who was paid, when he was paid and the identity card. That is the easiest thing that they could ever do.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We asked the Minister whether there was any relationship between her and those individuals. Is the Assistant Minister in order to give this House information that is not correct?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said from the beginning, what I said was reported verbatim and what the Minister and others said was not reported. It is not in this document.
Order, Mr. Kiunjuri! You have been challenged by the Chairman of the Committee where you said that they did not put the question to the Minister.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that my time is not wasted, I withdraw on that one. The question on those companies was not addressed, despite the magnitude and the way it is stated clearly in the Public Ethics Act and also in the Constitution about the question of integrity. Regarding the question of conflict of interest, this Committee did not also find it necessary to go to the roots of this matter and that all the allegations that I made had a motive. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to say the following. You can run but you can never hide. Parliament in itself will do its duty but there are also other institutions that are also interested. It is true that it is not until Jesus Christ went to the Temple, upset the tables, whipped the traders inside there that the Pharisees and the High Priests were ready to take him on. I indicated clearly during my presentation to this Committee that the Chairman had interest, an allegation to which he said yes, he had interest but he had already withdrawn from the company that is purported to have interest with Mrs. Ngilu. Secondly, I raised the issue of corruption that money had changed hands in that Committee but I was forced to withdraw; so, I do not want to trade in that. I do not want to trade on that one because of my time.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to cast aspersions on Members of Parliament who serve in this Committee? We have never seen, known or taken anything. If anything, what is contained in this report is also contained in the HANSARD. There is a verbatim report on what happened in the Committee.
Order, you have made your point.
So, could he withdraw that Members of Parliament were actually compromised and he should also apologize? Please, it is important because we serve in this Committee.
Order, hon. Members! We can only take one point of order at a time. Mr. Kiunjuri, you have made serious allegations on the hon. Members and one Member of the Committee has challenged you. So, you either adduce evidence or you withdraw and apologize.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was very careful. I have said that I will look at the HANSARD. That I had alleged during my interaction with the Committee but I was forced to withdraw,which I did. I even now withdraw if I said it.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Ruto! You seem to be very desirous of assisting the Chair. The Chair does not need your assistance. Mr. Kiunjuri, if you apologized at the Committee level, then why are you bringing the issue here. Proceed, but withdraw and apologize.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, again, I withdraw and apologize. What I was trying to say is that this Parliament should make a decision knowing that the pharaoh in this case is not the final judge. Lastly, Kenyans are watching to see how Members vote and lobbying is properly done. I oppose the Report.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Report. First of all, let me thank the Chairman and the Committee for bringing a united Report. In the past few months, we have had cases where Committees bring reports and then on the Floor of the House, we see division. I congratulate this Committee. Secondly, we know we should fight corruption in this country, but it is very important for us to be very careful not to bring in politics, vendetta and extraneous issues. If you look at the Report of this Committee, it is very detailed. The Assistant Minister, having been in that Ministry for well over three years, did not see it fit to whistle blow early enough until the time he was removed from that Ministry. That is when he came up and started smearing the name of the Minister; as if that was not enough, he went ahead - because he was failing in his schemes - to smear the name of the Chairman of the Committee. These are things we cannot tolerate in this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge my friend and colleague; âplease, respect other Membersâ. I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will take only one minute. I want to encourage us, as Members of Parliament, not to use the Floor of this House frivolously. There is nothing in law which would stop any Minister or any Member of Parliament from employing anybody who is related to them. What we are saying is that one should not engage in excessive favouritism. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been accused here and I have spoken like this before. I have been accused just because my sister happens to be a wife of a member of the diplomatic community; it looked---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There seems to be a consensus; may we call upon the Mover to reply?
Order! Proceed, Mr. Midiwo!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was just saying that the fact that somebody is related to another who may be working in another company is not unlawful. That trend must stop. I want us to slow down on politics for the future of our country. I wish to support this Report.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will take just 30 seconds. I also want to support this Report. Secondly, I want to thank the Minister for building large dams. Waziri, please, make sure by the time we go to elections next year, we have another ten large dams. With those few remarks, I support.
Yes, Mr. Kivuti. Sorry---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my name is Lenny Kivuti, the Member for Siakago. I have very little to say. May I move that you call upon the Mover to reply?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to donate a minute to Mr. Affey and another minute to Mr. C. Kilonzo.
Order! Mr. Chairman, the House has just passed a resolution for the Mover to be called upon to reply. Therefore, you cannot donate some of your time. You either reply or we conclude the matter.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your correction. Again, I wish to thank the Committee and this honorable House for listening to us very patiently. I think facts speak for themselves. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.
Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Members, that concludes the business on the Order Paper. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 19th April, 2011, at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 6.22 p.m.