asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs:- (a) whether he could provide a list of Education Attachés in all the Kenyan Embassies, High Commissions and diplomatic missions, stating their respective stations, qualifications, positions and district of birth; (b) whether he could inform the House if the officers deployed meet the minimum educational requirements to hold their respective positions; and, (c) whether he could consider rationalizing the deployment of the officers with regard to regional and ethnic balancing.
Hon. Members, I have a request from the Minister for Foreign Affairs. He is unable to be in the House timeously this afternoon because he has been summoned to attend a meeting where he is endevouring to make Kenya’s case on the Somali Question. It is an abrupt meeting involving participants from the international community. So, it is understandable. If he does get here before we come to the end of Question Time, then we will revisit Question No.903.
Next Question, by Member for North Horr!
Is the hon. Member for North Horr not here?
Well, on this one I have advised hon. Members that sometimes there is no turning round. Please note that there is nothing like “second round” in Parliamentary parlance. So, we will excuse this because it is the second day that the House is meeting but,
asked the Minister for Labour: (a) whether he is aware that M/s Kenya Tanning Extract Company Limited terminated the services of 21 workers with effect from 31st December, 2008 but has declined to pay them gratuity, redundancy or other dues; (b) when the former employees will be paid their dues; and, (c) what measures the Ministry will take to ensure that, in the event of closure of the company, the former employees are paid all their dues.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
I had answered most of the Questions last time and we had left at a point where the parties were to record a consent. So far, we have made progress and the two parties appeared before the Industrial Court on 15th December, 2011. They reviewed the coding and out of court settlement but somehow they disagreed. They have been recalled tomorrow 16th February, 2012 and we hope that the matter will be settled once and for all tomorrow.
Hon. Member for Juja, what is your position there?
Bw. Spika hili Swali limekuwa Bungeni kila wakati na leo ni mara ya sita. Limewahi kuweko tarehe 15 Novemba, 2011, tarehe 24 mwezi huo huo, tarehe 30 mwezi huo na tarehe nane Desemba. Haya ni malipo ya wafanyakazi. Ukiangalia katika rekodi ya Bunge, wakati hili Swali lilikuja mwezi wa Desemba, Waziri aliomba kwamba apewe wiki mbili ili aweze kuona kwamba masikizano yamerekodiwa katika korti. Kwa hivyo, kusema kwamba ni kesho, langu ni kukuuliza tu uweze kutusaidia ili lijibiwe kesho kutwa ili Bunge liweze kujua kama hawa wafanyakazi wamelipwa.
Mheshimiwa Mbunge wa Juja, nimekusikiza lakini kama vile Waziri Msaidizi amesema, suluhisho linakaribia. Kwa hivyo, itakuwa ni jambo zuri kama tungempa muda zaidi kwa mfano hadi wiki ijayo Alhamisi, ili aweze kuleta ripoti Bungeni.
Ninakubaliana nawe Bw. Spika.
Swali litarudi, Alhamisi wiki ijayo.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mjadala kuhusu Swali umekwisha, Mbunge wa Kisumu Magharibi Mjini!
Lakini kama ni jambo lingine basi endelea.
Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Spika. Leo asubuhi kulikuwa na Swali kuhusu Wizara ya Kazi lakini Waziri Msaidizi hakuwa hapa kulijibu. Kwa hivyo alipatiwa “punishment” ya kwamba---
Aliadhibiwa na kuambiwa kwamba asije kujibu Swali lolote hapa lakini amejibu wakati huu!
Waziri Msaidizi, umemsikiliza Mbunge wa Kisumu Magharibi Mjini?
Bw. Spika nimemsikiliza vizuri lakini nilipowekewa vikwazo asubuhi niliongea na Naibu wa Spika na akaziondoa.
Kwa hivyo hayo masharti yaliondolewa?
Basi sawa sawa!
Swali lifuatalo ni la Mbunge wa Karachuonyo.
asked the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources: (a) whether he is aware that the Mbita Causeway, built for easy access to the Mfangano Island, has been the major cause of continued environmental deterioration at the Winam Gulf, particularly due to the
weed; (b) whether he could tell the House how much money the Government has used both from Treasury and development partners, on the removal of the weed in Lake Victoria and if he could explain why it cannot be removed successfully; and, (c) whether he could confirm the identity of NGOs that have been formed and are receiving funds from donors in the pretext of removing the weed and if the Government could conduct an audit of their activities.
Make up your mind, Mr. Kajembe and proceed either in English or Swahili.
Bw. Spika, naomba kujibu.
Nakubaliana na Mheshimiwa aliyeuliza Swali hili kwamba ile njia “causeway in Winam Gulf” imezoroteka. Imezorota kwa sababu tangu ijengwe ni miaka mingi na wakati ilipojengwa kulikuwa hakuna mambo ya mazingira. Kwa hivyo, ilijengwa tu bila kufikiria mazingira ni nini. Lakini katika mkutano wa Mawaziri wa Africa Mashariki ambao sasa wanasimamia uhifadhi wa Ziwa Victoria, wamekubaliana kwamba lazima njia hiyo itengenezwe tena. Kwa hivyo, tayari kuna mtaalamu ambaye amewekwa ili afanye kazi hiyo. Atatoa makisio ambayo yatapelekwa katika Baraza la Mawaziri wa Afrika Mashariki. Hivyo ni kusema kwamba Mawaziri wa Afrika Mashariki ambao
Bw. Waziri Msaidizi, umejaribu kulijibu Swali hili lakini ukiangalia sehemu ya (b); Serikali imetumia pesa ngapi kufikia sasa kwa uondoaji wa hayo magugu. Haujasema hayo.
Bw. Spika, ukweli wa mambo ni kwamba pesa ambazo tumetumia, Serikali haijatoa mkononi mwake. Serikali imesema kwamba wakati mwanakandarasi anapoendelea na kazi, Serikali pia itatoa ili mradi utekelezwe.
Wawekezaji wametumia pesa ngapi?
Bw. Spika, kama alivyosema Eng. Rege, kuna mashirika ambayo sio ya Serikali ambayo yametoa msaada katika mradi huu. Ningependa kusema bila kuona haya kwamba hakuna shirika lisilo la Serikali ambalo limetoa msaada wowote wa pesa. Ikiwa Eng. Rege yuko na wasi wasi tungependelea tujue hayo mashirika yasiyo ya Serikali ambayo yameleta ruzuku hio lakini kulingana na sisi hakuna shirika ambalo limeleta ruzuku yoyote ile.
Mbunge wa Karachuonyo, unalo swali la kuongezea?
Bw. Spika, nashukuru sana kwa nafasi hii. Ningependa kuchukua nafasi hii kumuuliza Waziri Msaidizi ni pesa ngapi imetumika kwa kutoa magugu hayo kutoka Ziwa Victoria kufikia sasa. Hapo Karachuonyo bado hatujaona hata hela moja ikitumiwa kwa kutoa magugu hayo. Tarehe 23 mwezi wa pili mwaka uliopita, mheshimiwa alituambia kwamba baada ya mwaka mmoja atakuwa amemaliza hayo magugu katika Ziwa Victoria. Inafaa atueleze kama hayo magugu yameisha ama bado.
Bwana Spika, mpaka wakati huu tunapozungumza, tumetumia Kshs170 milioni katika yale maeneo ya ubunge yanayozungukwa na hizo kwekwe. Kwa hivyo, katika Kshs178 milioni, ni Kshs26 milioni ambazo zimetumiwa kwako. Hizi pesa zimetumiwa aidha kwa kufanya kazi kwa mikono au kwa vifaa. Hivyo ni kusema – kama nilvyojibu Swali hili – kwamba kwekwe zilizobaki pamoja na kutengeza Daraja la Winam Gulf, tumepata mtaalamu, analeta makisio na atafanya kazi hiyo.
Bw. Spika, ninafikiri nimejibu hilo swali.
Mheshimiwa Mjumbe wa Nyatike!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is something that has been affecting the shore of Lake Victoria and Nyatike is one of the places. The Assistant Minister is being casual and he should know that we are talking about a very sensitive matter. The Assistant Minister has confirmed that about Kshs26 million has already been spent on this particular project. Eng. Rege, the Member for Karachuonyo, in his part “b” of Question wants to know why this thing has not been done successfully and, therefore, the Assistant Minister needs to explain to us why he has already spent Kshs26 million but
Bw. Spika, ninataka nieleweke kwamba Kshs178 milioni zimetumiwa zote na Kshs26 milioni ni za eneo la Mheshimiwa Rege. Pia, ninataka nieleweke kwamba kazi, kulingana na majadiliano---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Anyanga?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Eng. Rege has stood here and made it very clear that he has never seen that money being spent within that area. Is the Assistant Minister in order to lie to this House?
Order! The Member for Nyatike, you must withdraw the word “lie!”
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise and replace the word “lie” with “misleading the House.”
Order! Start “I apologise, withdraw the word “lie” and---”
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I apologise, withdraw the word “lie” and replace it with the words “misleading the House.”
Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister!
Bw. Spika, kwanza, ninataka niseme kwamba sijapotosha Bunge. Pili, ninataka niseme kwamba Wizara yangu na kamati inayohusika na mambo ya mazingira, tulikubaliana tufanye mkutano Kisumu na Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Mazingira akamtuma mwakilishi wake. Hawa Wabunge ambao wanasema wanahusika zaidi – na mimi ninaamini kuwa wanahusika – wote walikuwa wana kazi Nairobi na wakatuma mwakilishi wao! Walimtuma---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would really appreciate if the Assistant Minister could produce a letter inviting us to that particular meeting.
Is he in order to mislead this House by purporting that we were all invited to that meeting but we were all in Nairobi? Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a serious issue, just as my colleague has said.
Order! The Member for Karachuonyo, if that is the point of order which you stood to raise, then I am afraid that you have not prosecuted it so as to fall within the ambit of a point of order. At the very best, you have staged an argument or asked a question. So, I am afraid that the Assistant Minister will not respond to that!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead this House that hon. Members of Parliament especially from Nyanza were invited in Kisumu?
Order, the Member for Kisumu Town East! You have not improved the situation, but I can see where you want to go. That, is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House that hon. Members of Parliament from Nyanza were invited when, in fact, they were not?
Bw. Spika, ninasimama kidete kusema kwamba Wabunge walialikwa na wakatuma mwakilishi wao kule Kisumu ambaye alikuwa Mheshimiwa--- Mheshimiwa yuko pale!
Nidhamu, Waziri Msaidizi!
Je, una ushahidi wa kuonyesha kwamba Waheshimiwa walialikwa?
Bw. Spika, ile kamati ya mazingira na Wabunge hawa, tuliwaalika na nina ushahidi. Mheshimiwa Outa pekee aliyekuja pale akasema; “Wale Wabunge wenzangu mumewaalika, lakini wako na shughuli zingine. Kwa hivyo mimi ninawawakilisha na tutazungumza.” Tulizungumza na tukaelewana!
Yes, the hon. Member for Kamukunji!
Asante, Bw. Spika. Waziri Msaidizi amesema Mawaziri wa Afrika Mashariki wamesikilizana kulishughulikia swala hili la kwekwe. Pengine angetunufaisha na kutuelimisha hapa katika Bunge, Mawaziri hawa wana bajeti ya shilingi ngapi? Na ni jinsi gani watashughulikia matatizo tuliyonayo kwenye ziwa letu hapa nchini Kenya?
Bw. Spika, Ziwa Victoria zinasimamiwa na nchi tano nazo ni Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda na Burundi. Swala la kurekebisha Ziwa Victoria hupitiwa tu katika Baraza la Mawaziri wa Mazingira wa Afrika Mashariki. Swala hili limezungumzwa vya kutosha na kuna mkataba ambao umefikiwa kati ya nchi hizi tano za Afrika Mashariki, kwamba Benki kuu ya Ulimwengu itatoa pesa katika mafungu manne ili kuondoa hii kwekwe katika Ziwa Victoria. Pia, serikali zinazohusika za Afrika Mashariki zilipewa nafasi yao, kwamba zitaongeza pesa kusafisha hii Kwekwe. Mpaka sasa, Benki Kuu ya Ulimwengu imetoa Kshs178 milioni wakati tunangoja pesa nyingine za Serikali kuu. Hata hivyo, wakati umefika tuingie katika sehemu ya pili na Benki Kuu ya Ulimwengu ili tuleta pesa tuendelee kusafisha hii kwekwe katika Ziwa Victoria. Ninataka niseme kuwa katika mikutano ya Mawaziri wa nchi tano za Afrika Mashariki ambayo mimi pia ninahudhuria, kila kitu kinaendelea sawasawa.
Lakini ninataka uniruhusu, Bw. Spika, niseme kuwa wakati Bw. Outa alikuwa pale, zile kamati zimeweka hii kandarasi kutengezwa katika sehemu za Waheshimiwa Wabunge, alilalamika kwa kusema zile kamati zingine hazikuwajulisha Wabunge wao na nikatoa agizo, kama Waziri Msaidizi wa Mazingira, kwamba wakati huu pesa hii ikija, badala ya Waheshimiwa Wabunge kuwaachia kamati katika maeneo yao ya ubunge, Wabunge watawakilishwa kikamilifu. Nimetoa amri hiyo, Bw. Spika, na itafuatwa.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Waziri Msaidizi, wakati wa mazishi ya marehemu Prof. Wangari Maathai, tulionyeshwa kwamba mmea huu unaweza kutumika kutengeneza jeneza. Ni juhudi gani Serikali imefanya kusaidia haswa vikundi vya vijana na akina mama wanaoishi karibu na Ziwa Victoria ili waweze kutengeza majeneza na waweze kupata riziki kutokana na mmea huu?
Bw. Spika, mimi pia nimesikia maneno hayo, kama alivyosikia Bw. Wamalwa, lakini sina chembe chembe za kitaalam kuhusika na utengenezaji wa majeneza kutumia kwekwe hii. Lakini ninataka niseme kuwa katika vikao vyetu katika Wizara, tumeligusia jambo hili na wataalamu wetu wanajaribu kuzungumza. Tumewaambia watuletee taarifa kamili juu ya swala hili.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Mbita Causeway is a very serious issue. The Gulf of Winam is suffocating. I would like the Assistant Minister to clarify to this House. What is the Government of Kenya (GoK) doing on its own to rescue the Gulf of Winam from suffocating?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have seen the GoK build several bridges across the country and across the oceans, and we are proud of that. What is the Government doing on its own to ensure that there is a bridge across Rusinga?
Bw. Spika, katika majibu yangu hapo awali, nimesema kwamba hivi karibuni, tutatangaza yule ambaye atachukua kandarasi kutengeza hii njia na hili daraja. Katika majibu yangu hapo awali pia nilisema kwamba tayari tumeweka mtaalamu kutupatia bei, yaani consultant na amesema kuwa ripoti yake itamalizika mwisho wa mwezi huu wa February. Ninataka nikuhakikishie kuwa maneno hayo yanaharakishwa ili kwamba---
Ni nini, Mheshimiwa Mbunge wa Rangwe?
Bw. Spika, je Waziri Msaidizi ako kwa kanuni kwa kupotosha hili Jumba hili kwa kusema kuwa kuna consultancy inaendelea na vile vile kwa kusema kuwa kuna kandarasi imepeanwa. Ni yapi yanaendelea na ni lini yatafanyika?
Mhe Spika, labda lugha hazikuchuana, lakini nimesema kandarasi itamalizika kabla ya mwisho wa mwezi huu; mwisho wa mwezi huu tutatoa kandarasi ili sehemu ile ijengwe. Mhe Spika, nataka labda nifahamishe Bunge kitu, kwa ruhusa yako-- -
Bila kuchukua muda mwingi.
Asante. Nataka nifahamishe Bunge kwamba kazi ya kuondoa kwekwe katika Ziwa Victoria ni ushirikiano wa nchi tano na tuna mktaba na chi tano. Hakuna nchi moja inaweza kusema itafanya kazi kivyake. Jambo hili litasilishwa katika Baraza la Mawaziri. Kitu nataka kusema ni kwamba nazungumza kama Waziri Msadizi wa Mazingira. Ninamjulisha Mhe Rege kwamba mradi huu utatekelezwa haraka iwezekanavyo. Pia nataka niseme kwamba daraja liko na ninakubaliana na Wabunge kuwa haliko katika hali nzuri. Litatengenezwa na nataka nikwambie nina fedha; kama litaangukiwa na mmonyoko wa udongo tutaundoa mmomonyoko wenyewe.
Asante sana Bw. Spika. Mambo ambayo jambo hili kwekwe si lakuchuliwa urahisi. Shida ambayo tumekuwa nayo katika ghuba ya Winam yote ni kwamba pesa ambazo zinatolewa na Wizara zinatumika kwa njia ambayo si nzuri. Zinatumiwa na maafisa wa Wizara na wale wa Lake Victoria Environment Programme bila kuhusisha Wabunge ama madiwani. Pesa zote ambazo zimetumika, ni Shs178
Mhe Spika, narudia tuu. Jawabu langu ni kwamba Wizara yangu inakubaliana na Wabunge kwamba daraja limezoroteka. Pia nimesema kwamba pesa zilizotumika Kshs 178 million kulikuwa na wataalamu ambao walikuwa wameshikana na kamati katika maeneo ya ubunge ya hawa Wabunge. Nakubaliana nao kwamba hawakushirikishwa wakati wa kutumika kwa pesa hizo; hawakushirikishwa katika utendaji kazi huu. Lakini sasa nawahidi nikiwa mimi mwenyewe kwamba wakati huu pesa zikiingia nitawaita pamoja. Tutawashirikisha. Msiwe na shaka juu ya jambo hili.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the well-being of our communities, over 30 million who live around the lake, really depends on the ecosystem of the lake. I would like to ask the Assistant Minister to assure this House that the affairs of Lake Victoria will not be asked about again for the fifth time in this House. By when will the entire lake be cleaned? We want to see that you are doing something on the lake.
Bw. Spika, ingawaje Mhe Rege anasema maswali yasiulizwe tena juu ya kwekwe, mimi nawaomba waendelee kuuliza maswali maanake ni taratibu za Bunge; lakini mimi, nitahakikisha kwekwe zimeondolewa.
Mhe Spika, nimesema hapo awali kwamba wataalamu watatuambi kabla ya mwisho wa mwizi ni pesa ngapi zinahitajika; baada hapo, tutatoa hiyo kandarasi.
Sawa! I think that is a satisfactory and clear answer. Next Question by Mr. Gitau!
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he is aware that the holding cell at Wang’uru Police Station lacks toilet facilities and, if so, what plans the Government has to provide the same; (b) how much money the Ministry has spent to improve the holding cell since 1954 when the it was constructed; and, (c) what the capacity was of the cell at the time of construction in 1954 and now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that the holding cell at Wang’uru Police Station has no toilet. Currently, prisoners use a toilet which was recently renovated outside the cell. Plans are also underway to put up modern cells with modern sanitation facilities, whose plan and bill of quantities are being prepared by the Ministry of Public Works. As soon as it is ready, a request for funds will be forwarded to the police headquarters to source for funds.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would want to inform the Assistant Minister that his answer is misleading
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is a genuine case and that is why we have prevailed upon the Ministry of Public Works to give us the bills of quantities in order for us to know how much money we are going to allocate to that particular place. We are going to modernize the place. We are going to install proper sanitation. It is, indeed, true that the cells were built in 1954. I want to assure this House that once we get the bills of quantities, we are going to put in some money in order for us to modernize that particular cell.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are many police posts and police stations in this country which are in very bad physical shape. Just last year, I talked about one post, Moso, in Iliret Location and up to now nothing has been done despite that the Ministry undertook that they would allocate some funds to rehabilitate that post. When will the Assistant Minister deliver on his undertaking?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the last financial year, we requested the Treasury to allocate us some money in order for us to modernize some of these cells. Out of what we requested, we only got a quarter. So, we have prevailed upon the Ministry of Public Works to go and carry out the feasibility studies so that we know how much money is required where. That is what we are currently doing. If we get the money which we requested for reforms, I assure this House that we will come up with the most modern facilities within the police cells.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If I heard the Assistant Minister right, he said that there are three cells but the Questioner said that there is only one cell. According to Article 28 of the new Constitution on Human Rights: “Every person has inherent dignity and the right to have the dignity respected and protected.” I wonder what exactly the Assistant Minister is doing to make sure that when he has cells, the juvenile girls are separated from the boys. So, what steps does he have and what time frame does he have to make a modern police post that caters for human dignity as enshrined in the Constitution?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will try our level best to come up with very modern facilities. The only problem we have been facing is lack of funds. However, right now, we have made some savings from the construction works that have been going on. That is why we have engaged the Ministry of Public Works to go to certain cells which are badly off so that we can fast-track the construction and hand them over to the prisoners. I also want to say that this is not just in Wang’uru. There are also other cells which are badly off and we will take care of them once we get the bill of quantities from the Ministry of Public Works.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has told us how he wants to modernize this prison. However, this is a prison which was constructed during the colonial days with the full intention of punishing the Mau Mau people. Therefore---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, the Member for Mathira! Please, resume your seat. There is a point of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My understanding of the Question is that we are dealing with Wang’uru Police Station while Eng. Maina is talking about Wang’uru Prison. Is he in order to talk about a prison when we are talking about a police station?
The Member for Mathira, you are certainly out of order! Retrace your steps and proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I referred to it as a prison because it was used during the colonial days by the colonialists. That is why the local people who come from the area like myself refer to it. But now that it has been converted into a police post or station--- Since the original intention is known and that is why people who go there leave either dead or mentally disturbed because there is bilharzia and mosquitoes of unknown species, could the Assistant Minister consider transferring the modernization he wants to carry out and set up a new police station elsewhere rather than stick to this place which is inhabitable?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not object to that as long as they can make land available for transfer especially when the Member for the area thinks that it is important for us to transfer the police station from the current location. I do not have any objection. But, what we are doing, as a Government, is to make sure that we come up with modern facilities so that we have three different cells; one for the juveniles, one for females and one for males. That will be done countrywide.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has said that once he gets the Bill of Quantities, he will consider funding that police station. I remember very well last time I asked the same question about my station, I went to the Ministry of Public Works, they gave me the Bill of Quantities and everything was done but nothing has ever been given to the Police Station of Subukia. Could the Assistant Minister assure this House that he will consider Wang’uru Police Station as soon as he gets the money? Could he also consider Subukia Police Station at the same time?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is when we receive the Bill of Quanties and not when the Member of Parliament receives the Bill of Quantities. The Bill of Quantities informs us how much money we are supposed to allocate---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to say that the Bill of Quantities are with me and yet they were taken to the Subukia OCPD’s office?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need the Bill of Quantities so that we can estimate how much money we will use. I am not sure that the ones that the Questioner is talking about have so far been given to us at the headquarters. Bills of Quantities can be taken to the OCPD who does not remit them to us. I kindly request the hon. Member to ask the OCPD to remit the Bill of Quantities in order for us to do a budget and allocate funds so that we can modernize that police station.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Assistant Minister, do you want information from the Member for Subukia?
The Assistant Minister has declined.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not only in Kirinyaga but in many parts of the country like Garissa where the male and female inmates share the same room contrary to religious and cultural beliefs. Could the Assistant Minister confirm that across the nation, there are cells that harbour both sexes and even children? What is he doing in the face of the new Constitution?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is against the law to mix the male and female in a cell. If, indeed, it is true that they are mixing both male and female in one cell appropriate action will be taken against the officers who are doing that. As of now, I want to assure my colleagues that we will build modern facilities. Once we get the money and the estimates, I will allocate funds so that we can have modern facilities as cells and not prisons which fall under the Office of the Vice President and Ministry of Home Affairs and not Ojode!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could the Assistant Minister consider separating the three categories of the arrested people and put them in in-huts as a stop- gap measure as he constructs the modern police station?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will order the Director of Operations to go to Wang’uru Police Station and check what we can do as an adhoc measure in order to separate the groups as the Questioner wants. Otherwise, I want to say and assure the Questioner that we will definitely come up with something so that we separate the two cells.
Yes, the Member for North Horr!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise for coming late. When this Question was called for the first time, I was not here. With your indulgence, I amended this
Very well! The Member for North Horr under those circumstances, Question No.1009 stands withdrawn.
Hon. Members, we are now into the Prime Minister’s Time. However, for the convenience of the House this afternoon, I would like us to take the next order before we move to the Prime Minister’s Time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Leader of Government of Business on whether the Government is serious on the implementation of the Constitution and the timely passage of laws as required by Article 261 of the Constitution bearing in mind that a lot of legislation has arrived in Parliament late and Parliament has been forced, in a number of times, to either pass the laws in a hurry or jump certain stages which include the publication period and the participation of the public together with House Committees in the effective passage of the laws. The Leader of Government Business should specifically confirm to this House whether the Attorney-General as required by Article 261(4) understands that it is his responsibility to prepare the laws in consultation with the Committee on Implementation of Constitution (CIC) within reasonable time and ensure that the rest of the institutions can then play their role reasonably and deliver quality laws. I request the Leader of Government Business to give that Statement.
Leader of Government Business, when will you deliver this Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if my friend, Member for Chepalungu could bear with me and the House, I will be ready with this Statement on Tuesday next week.
Very well! It is so directed. Member for Saboti.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Medical Services with regard to the controversial transfer of the Kitale District Hospital Medical Superintendent, Dr. Morris Nyongesa Wakwabubi. I would like the Minister in the Statement to explain the following:- Under what circumstances was the said officer transferred, what informed the Minister’s decision to abruptly transfer the said officer and whether the said transfer was politically instigated.
Very well, Minister for Medical Services! Leader of Government Business, perhaps you want to indicate when this will come.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could this also be Tuesday next week?
Very well. So directed! Member for Nyando!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Attorney-General.
Order, Member for Nyando!. Is your request approved?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, from your office!
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Attorney-General explain under what circumstances an individual or an organization is deemed to have contravened the law by improper use of certain Government emblems, specifically the court of arms. Based on the specified scenario, is the Vice-President in order to have used the court of arms, superimposed on his hut in political rallies? Thirdly, could the Attorney-General specify the penalty for such an offence?
The Attorney-General? Leader of Government Business, when will the Attorney-General deliver this request?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Attorney-General, if this could also be done sometime next Wednesday, the Member for Nyando would be pleased to hear there are no issues.
Shall we say Wednesday morning?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There is no problem.
It is so directed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to raise two Ministerial Statements. I want to request the first one from the Prime Minister.
Right hon. Prime Minister, will you want to do this on Wednesday next week or when?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is usually a very clear procedure through which Members ask the Prime Minister Questions and they are answered and I have never hesitated to do so. I do not know why there is a departure so that I have to be asked to give a Ministerial Statement here instead of the Member raising the matter through your office and forwarding it to my office and then I will respond.
Right hon. Prime Minister, there is no departure. It is just that this is a request for a Ministerial Statement. So, it is treated as such. The only exception being that it is directed to you and in your case, therefore, you can respond by delivering that Statement on any Wednesday when time is set aside specially for the Prime Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I receive that request formally in writing the way I do, I will respond to it.
Very well. It will actually be transmitted to you, Right Hon. Prime Minister. Proceed, Dr. Khalwale, to prosecute the next request.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the next one is to the Minister of State for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030. This is in respect to the population of Kenya. I would like the Minister to clarify the final and official position population of this country. I would like him to give reasons that informed the initial nullification of the census results in the districts of Turkana, Wajir and Mandera counties. I would like him to clarify the fate of that nullification.
Finally, he should clarify how this is going to impact on planning for development in the country, especially in regard to the Commission of Revenue Allocation, the creation of 80 new constituencies, the allocation of Constituencies Development Fund funds and other devolved resources.
You will be ready on Tuesday?
Very well. It is so ordered.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to remind the House and you that in the last session, I requested for a Ministerial Statement on the demolitions that were taking place in Nairobi. I wanted to know the Government’s position from the Attorney-General. I never got a response from the Attorney-General and it was postponed to the opening of the new session. So, I just wanted to seek clarification as to when the Attorney-General will give the position on that.
Very well. That becomes an urgent matter. Leader of Government Business!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this could be done on Thursday next week because we have an earlier request for a Ministerial Statement directed to the Attorney-General, if that is convenient to the Member of Kamukunji.
Member for Kamukunji, are you comfortable with Thursday next week?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am afraid I am not because it appears the Attorney-General’s office or the Executive takes this House for granted. This issue has been postponed time and time again. I think he should take our request seriously and respond to it at the quickest time possible.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had asked a Question by Private Notice about the same demolitions. I am seeking your directions if it is on the same subject, then you might find it necessary to have them responded to together?
On the same day?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Yes, indeed, I have heard the sentiments of Mr. Hassan with respect to this matter having taken too long beginning from the last Sitting of the House. The situation is such that we have directed several Statements to be issued on Tuesday and Wednesday next week. So, we do not want to overcrowd those two days because it may not be practical to receive all Statements then. We will then direct that this Statement come on Thursday, next week, as much as possible, Leader of Government Business, without fail. We will now move on to the Prime Minister and depending on how much time he takes, we may then accommodate the Minister for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030 on a Statement on the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF). So, proceed, Mr. Prime Minister!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to convey my new year’s greetings to many hon. Members of Parliament whom I have not had occasion and pleasure of meeting so far this year. I wish each of you and your families God’s blessing in 2012. According to the Chinese calendar, this year is the year of the dragon. The dragon is an artificial creature that is believed to climb to heaven. This is suspicious as I believe and, this is the year Kenya will enter the era of democracy and economic prosperity. The high expectations we hold for our country are shared across the world. Three weeks ago, I joined Heads of States and Governments and CEOs of global corporations at a World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister is addressing us on the issue of sustaining reform agenda for 2012. However, he has been talking about a dragon in China and we cannot quite comprehend and relate it to what the topic is. Could he clarify so that we follow it and be able to interrogate him?
Mr. Right Hon. Prime Minister, will you proceed?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, why can the hon. Member not allow me to finish my Statement and then he can ask the questions later? I have not
Order, Mr. Right Hon. Prime Minister! Dr. Khalwale was actually entitled to rise on a point of order. My prophetic soul was unable to anticipate what he was going to say in his point of order. However, I think sometimes you have to accommodate a sense of humour which I think is permissible.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, exactly! That is the reason why I am also just returning the jest. I am not very serious as Dr. Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will finish with a
Are there hon. Members seeking clarifications?
Member for Imenti Central!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. The reform agenda that the Prime Minister talks of sustaining, is founded on the National Accord that was signed four years ago. Specifically, Agenda Four Reforms set a timeline within which the Government was to address the issue of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) and also the post election violence perpetrators who have not been sent to The Hague. What specific measures is the Government taking with regard to these two issues?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the Agenda Four items was the issue of youth empowerment. We do know that last year, there was a matter before this House about the Kazi Kwa Vijana (KKV) Programme and how the initiative had flopped. The hon. Prime Minister did indicate to the House that, indeed, they were returning Kshs4.3 billion back to the World Bank for restructuring of the Youth Empowerment Programme. We are in a new year and several months away from an election. How long would it take for this restructuring to be done, so that this Kshs4.3 billion can get to the youths of Kenya?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek a clarification from the Prime Minister in terms of the Vision 2030 and exactly what he intends to do considering that this year is an election year, and he has seen part of the implementation of the Vision 2030 while he is serving his first term in that very serious position of leadership in this country. What is he going to do to make sure that this Vision 2030 progresses up to including next year when he will not be the President?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Prime Minister what steps the Government is taking to make sure that slum dwellers in our major towns will not be evicted until the new law is put in place. Could the Prime Minister also assure me that I will not be evicted from my home, allegedly for a remark that I never made in Kisumu on 4th February(?); that “Prime Minister tosha? ”
Mr. Speaker, Sir, of utmost importance in the reform agenda in this country would be enabling legislation that has timelines set within the Constitution. It is just yesterday when hon. Members were lamenting that Bills have been presented a bit too late. I expected the Prime Minister to, at least, capture and tell us, as a House, why it has taken the Government too long to present these Bills to the House for an adequate time to be allowed for public debate. I expected that the Prime Minister would, at least, give us a clear timetable as to when the Bills that are supposed to be law, in two years time, that is, by August, will be presented to this House for participation by the public and public debate to be allowed?
Very well! Rt. hon. Prime Minister, will you respond to those five and we will try and do another five after that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Imanyara, the Member for Imenti Central asked about Agenda Four items. He specifically wanted to know about the IDPs that have not been resettled and the perpetrators of post election violence who are not being taken to The Hague.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the IDPs, the hon. Member needs to know that there are categories of IDPs in our country. There have been IDPs for a long time. There are IDPs who were specifically victims of post election violence and those who were evicted from their properties in different parts of the country. There are some of them who are in camps and others who went back and are actually being kept by relatives and, therefore, not all the times visible. Efforts have been made in the past and a number of IDPs went back to their homes. The hon. Member will appreciate that quite a substantial number of IDPs are actually back in their homes. There are a few who are not yet in their homes. Money has been made available by the Government and efforts are underway to identify pieces of land to be procured. As we speak, there are quite a number of land pieces in different parts of the country, which are being purchased for resettlement of some of these people.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member will appreciate that we also have people who are landless and who are also in the IDP camps. These are not necessarily victims of post- election violence. That is why the numbers keep on swelling despite the fact that we keep on resettling quite a number of the post-election violence victims.
Regarding those who are not going to The Hague, the Attorney-General recently set up a task force to look at the files that had been opened to see what can be done about them. I will be asking the Attorney-General to come and brief the House on the fate of those people after he receives a report from the task force that he has set up.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Wamalwa asked about the KKV Programme. First, I want hon. Wamalwa to understand well that last year, he made very malicious allegations about the KKV Programmes, which were not supported by facts and---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Prime Minister to state before this House that it is malicious for an hon. Member to seek clarification about a matter touching the youth of this country and purported misappropriation of funds, which the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports as well as the Prime Minister, in his Statement, did admit? Is he in order?
The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, so that we are on top of things at this point, you have said that the hon. Member for Saboti did make malicious statements. Could you substantiate that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to draw your attention to the debate last year on the issue of the KKV Programmes. Allegations were made that some monies were misappropriated in my Office. This prompted the World Bank to write a letter apologising to me, and saying that those allegations were malicious. It was the hon. Member for Saboti who made the allegation on the Floor of this House. So, I have got written evidence to substantiate that statement.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Indeed, it was the same Prime Minister who, on this issue, told the House that the figure which hon. Wamalwa had indicated had been misappropriated was not correct. He owned up that the figure
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has got a selective memory. At no point did I ever say that there was a smaller figure that had been misappropriated. What I said was that there was some kind of accounting problem. I said that there were two accounts – Government of Kenya account and World Bank account. There were certain expenditures which were supposed to have been paid through Government of Kenya funds and other expenditures which were supposed to have been paid using World Bank funds.
Order, hon. Members! We must get away from here!
Proceed, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Unless the hon. Member does not want to get the facts---
Order! Order, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister! I have given directions because I am satisfied that you have quoted the word “malicious” from a World Bank letter. That is why I am satisfied. Otherwise, we would have let it continue.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Therefore, all we said was that upon discussions with the World Bank, it was agreed that the funds that the World Bank was providing be withdrawn and then be directed to specific projects. So, the whole of this programme is being redesigned in that regard. The World Bank has been working together with officers from the Government in that regard and we are soon going to make an announcement as to how those funds are going to be made available. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member needs to know that the KKV Programme was a crash programme that was introduced during the serious economic difficulties following the post-election violence, the world economic meltdown and the drought that affected this country in 2008. It was an economic stimulus programme that was introduced at that time. The Treasury provided funding in that particular financial year, but it withdrew the funds thereafter and re-directed them to the Economic Stimulus Programmes (ESPs), which had been implemented even in hon. Saboti’s constituency. Therefore, the KKV programme was not a failure as the hon. Member was trying to imply. With regard to the issue raised by hon. Lessonet, Vision 2030 is exactly what it says. It is a programme aimed at propelling this country from a third world country status to a middle-income economy by the year 2030. Right now, we are in the year 2012. We still have 18 more years to reach the year 2030. There are flagship projects that have been identified in order to achieve Vision 2030. Those projects are being implemented in tandem, and are in different sectors of our economy. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Vision 2030 is anchored on three pillars, namely, economic, social and political. So, I can assure the hon. Member that the projects that have been
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I truly understand the attributes of Vision 2030. What I asked the hon. Prime Minister was what steps he is putting in place to make sure that changes in leadership, in terms of principles, do not threaten the realisation of Vision 2030.
Very well, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is asking me the impossible. He is asking me to tie the next Government to the programme that has been initiated. One can only hope that there will be goodwill in the next Government, and they will be able to continue the programme that has been initiated by this Government. I can assure the hon. Member that if I were to be the leader in the next Government, I would definitely continue this programme. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Dr. Nuh raised the issue of reform timelines. We, as a Government, have tried. However, there are areas where we have not lived up to the promises because of some difficulties which were not anticipated. The hon. Members need to appreciate the fact that these Bills or the legislations being brought before the House to implement the Constitution are being originated by the line Ministries. The line Ministries usually set up a task force because the Constitution talks of public participation. The public participates at different levels. The hon. Members need to appreciate that legislation being brought to this House here have gone through a lot of consultations with the members of the public. For example, if you look at the Devolution Bill that is now before the House, the Minister set up a task force that went around the country consulting the public. The task force also went to other countries all over the world to look how the other systems operate. It took the task force more than six months to compile the report. Likewise the Financial Management Bill also has involved a lot of wide consultations. It is because these are not Bills that can just be taken out of the shelf and then published, that is why they are taking too long. We have to apologize that some of them have not reached the Floor of the House on time. Hon. Members need to appreciate that there has been a very good reason why they took that long. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Lari asked about the slum dwellers. I am a Member of Parliament representing the largest slum in Africa, South of Sahara. That is Kibera slum. I, therefore, understand the plight of slum dwellers. Our people live in slums not through choice of their own, but it is because of the failure of the past Government to respond to the needs of our people. After Independence, very little was invested in terms of construction of low cost housing for the poor. The Government addressed the housing for the middle income in our society. The result was that as the rural urban migration increased and there was no formal settlement for them, the people responded by constructing informal structures. The Government then recognized them and they were called informal settlements. As I speak today, 60 per cent of Nairobi’s population lives in slums. It is a very high number. We cannot resolve this matter by merely using forceful eviction of people. It is
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Prime Minister for answering that part and clarifying the reasons as to why the Government took too long to present the Bills. But in part (b) of the question where I asked when this House should expect the Bills that are supposed to be law by August has not been answered. Even if he cannot give a specific date when this House should expect those Bills, at least, he should give a firm undertaking to this House that Parliament will not be rushed through these Bills and that they will be provided to this House in a timely manner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Constitution has clearly stated how Bills will come. There is the Attorney-General, the Commission on the Implementation of the Constitution and the Law Reform Commission. As the Bills are finalized, we bring them as quickly as possible to this House. We know that there are timelines. We are now bringing the ones with the deadlines. We will try to accelerate the process of preparation of the ones that are remaining. Most of them are almost complete.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek some clarification from the Prime Minister because he has been quoted quite a number of times in the media over the fact that he knew the date of our next elections and that he would consult with the President on the date. Now that he has seen the light and he believes that the National Assembly should participate in that, could he tell us when the Principals are likely to consult us on this important issue because the public in general is waiting?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we are going to sustain reform agenda in 2012 then we should do so by upholding the rule of law. Could the Prime Minister clarify whether the selective eviction of the poor from Syokimau, Maasai Village, Mau Forest and leaving the rich who have been listed in the Ndung’u Report does not amount to selective application of the law? If we want to sustain the rule of law when will he move on the people listed in the Ndung’u Report? Finally on the issue of selective application of the law, Kenyans are waiting with bated breath on the outcome of the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza fiasco. Could he also clarify whether using the same law that is being applied rightly to Nancy Baraza, he will also use it to apply to the Ministers in this House who have been found to have fallen short of glory and this House has made a pronouncement that they are not fit to hold public office?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this morning the Minister for Public Works indicated that he did not have enough funds to complete the stalled projects. This afternoon the Prime Minister has talked about economic stimulus projects which have stalled as well. Could the Prime Minister be in a position to tell us whether there is enough funding to complete the economic stimulus projects that have stalled all over the country?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Prime Minister tell the House whether the Government will remove the Mombasa Republican Council (MRC) from the list of illegal organizations and when the Government will start addressing issues which MRC have raised leading to the slogan “ Pwani si Kenya”?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister talked about the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) and what the Government is doing to ensure justice is done and to resettle them. As of January this year, 30,000 IDPs are in Moyale; their homes have been burnt down, all the schools have been closed and Moyale is a ghost town. What is this Government doing to ensure that those IDPs in Ethiopia who have no homes to return to, no schools to take their children to, whether the Gabras or Boranas, get their justice? What will the Government do to ensure that those who are behind those criminal acts are brought to book and justice is done to those IDPs in Moyale who have lost all their livelihoods and property due to the clashes that happened in Moyale in the last three months?
Let us hear the Member for Eldoret North and that will be the last one, I am afraid. If we do Eldoret North, we do not immediately do Chepalungu!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ask the Prime Minister, especially on this very important subject of the reform agenda, whether the statements he has been making about the people who voted “No” in the last referendum that indeed they do not qualify to be voted as leaders in this country is Government policy? I am talking about close to three million Kenyans who voted “No” in the last referendum. Was it their democratic right to vote yes or no? Are the statements attributed to the Prime Minister to the effect that these people have a problem is Government policy or that is his own opinion? What is the position of the Government on the democratic rights of Kenyans to either have voted “No” or “Yes”? What is the position of persons seeking office in a democratic society where there is freedom of conscience especially with reference to the reform agenda this year?
Right hon. Prime Minister, you may now respond.
Order, Member for Chepalungu! I did indicate even as we closed the last round of five that we will do another five and then we have to look at other business that is before the House this afternoon. Member for Chepalungu, you must respect that!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Kamukunji probably has selective memory. I did not say that I know the date of next elections. I said that I will consult President Kibaki in accordance with the court ruling. What I said is that I have ears and I have eyes and I know what Kenyans are saying. So I said what we are going to be doing was going to try to respond to the need of the people in this country. That position has not changed. All we have now said is that we are not going to make arbitrary decisions among ourselves. We will bring this matter to the House and allow hon. Members to have a say on the date of the next General Elections. Dr. Khalwale talked about selective evictions of the poor. This country is big and we cannot generalize. Situations differ. I must also admit that there was a time when there was what we called land grabiosis which was a malady that afflicted this country and that there are a number of people who are living on other people’s plots without a right of doing so. Therefore, we cannot really just generalize. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have said that where people have to be evicted, particularly where a community is living, it must be done with a human face. These people must be shown somewhere else that they are going to stay. We said that it is inhuman and cruel to send bulldozers to knock down structures where people are living with small children without any alternative given to them. He also referred to the Ndung’u Report but we now have a Land Policy that is coming before the House shortly. However, before that, the hon. Member will recall that the Minister for Lands has been revoking some of the legal allocations which were done last time. It is not selective and it is not confined to the poor. It is something that is applying to the middle class and the rich as well. Dr. Khalwale wanted to know whether the law being applied to Justice Nancy Baraza will also apply elsewhere. The issue of the Deputy Chief Justice we can say is more or less like sub judice. I would have my own feelings about this matter but I do not want to talk about my personal feelings on this issue because this matter is not in the domain of the Executive. This matter is being handled by the Judiciary and the Judiciary then asked the President in accordance with the Constitution to constitute a tribunal to investigate the conduct of the Deputy Chief Justice. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Executive cannot therefore, be accused of being culpable in this issue. It is purely in the domain of the Judiciary and we want to ensure that transparency is observed in handling this matter. Whether the same should apply to the Minister; I know that Ministers with cases to answer are right now not serving in the Government as I know. The hon. Member for Kiharu wanted to know whether funds are available to complete the Economic Stimulus Projects (ESPs). That is a matter that will be answered by the Treasury. Hon. Members need to know that this is what was brought to substitute
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister needs to tell the country whether the rhetoric that he is involved in is campaign propaganda he is
Order, Member for Eldoret North! Let me just guide you. I am not stopping you. Just listen to me first. Please, resume your seat for a moment. Hon. William Ruto, you have stood on a point of order. So, you really must prosecute your concern such that it falls within the ambit of a point of order as provided for in the Standing Orders. Please, just do that! If the Prime Minister has not responded to your clarification or he is doing it wrongly, then say so. You have a lot of experience in this House – this is your third term now. Prosecute the point of order!
Precisely, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to run away from answering directly the question that I put to him whether his position that he has been propagating around the country that people who voted No during the referendum should not be voted for is a Government policy or his own propaganda? He needs to answer that.
Very well. That now fits.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. ole Ntimama! The person who has addressed the House last is the Member for Eldoret North. Do you want give information to the Member for Eldoret North?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to give general information on the main question---
Order, Mr. ole Ntimama! You know even if you are going to give information, you must do so within the letter and spirit of the Standing Orders. I am afraid that up to where you are, you have not satisfied me that you are living within the letter and spirit of the Standing Orders. I am afraid I will have to decline. Proceed, Prime Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I truly believe in democracy that every Kenyan had a right at that time to say Yes or No. I have not talked against those who voted No. All I have been talking about is those who were spreading propaganda. I have not been addressing Government functions when I have spoken on this matter. I have been addressing political party---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister is an experienced Member of this House. I have asked him a direct question. He cannot keep on running away. He is always the Prime Minister whether he is in Mombasa or in this place or that place. So, could he tell this House whether what he has been saying is Government policy or his own propaganda? He needs to be categorical!
But he has responded!
Order, hon. Millie Odhiambo!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, unless the hon. Member of Eldoret North wants to answer the question himself. He should allow me to conclude.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, all I have been saying is that at times, I address members of Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) like I was addressing delegates of ODM. Yes, I am a Prime Minister, but I am also a Party Leader. However, to answer his question, it is not a Government policy; it is a statement of fact which I have been making that it was propaganda. I have been saying that the
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. George Nyamweya! I have seen and heard you. Just hold your horse for a short while; perhaps, for one more minute.
Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Order! Order! Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, please, proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, let me say this: It is on record when we were debating in this House to introduce a Bill to establish an independent tribunal to try the perpetrators of post-election violence, I spoke stood before this House and said that we should set a local tribunal and I voted for it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Members of the House who are gallivanting the country running around saying it is hon. Raila who is taking people to Hague, hon. Issack Ruto coined and said: “Do no be vague, say Hague”.
Order, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, I would want to take the point of order by hon. George Nyamweya!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the most weighty matter that this country can face. When the country was being asked: Do you accept the new Constitution as drafted or not? We were given a straight choice: “Yes” or “No.” Then, it ought to have said that if you vote “no”, it means you have no Constitution, you are not a Kenyan and you could not enjoy the benefits of that Constitution. Therefore, is it in order for the Prime Minister to stand here and tell the country that those who exercised their democratic right, who did not agree with the Constitution as drafted cannot enjoy the benefits of that Constitution, cannot have the protection of that Constitution. Is that what we are being asked to believe and understand from him?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for him, not to be guided by the oath he took, the oath all of us took to defend and protect this Constitution? Whether you voted “yes” or “no”, you are now bound by that Constitution. It is our Constitution now. Surely, it cannot be right for---
Very well! Your point is made hon. George Nyamweya. Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, do you want to respond to that point of order?
Order, hon. Ole Ntimama! I have seen you. But let the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister responds to that point of order first.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said very clearly that every Kenyan whether they voted “yes” or “no” are protected by the Constitution.
I believe on the dictum that I may not agree with you have to say, but I shall defend unto death the right to say it. That is the reason why we tolerated everybody. The “no camp” was given full protection during the campaign. They had the full force of the law behind them when they were campaigning. They were gentlemen and gentle ladies, after they were defeated, they conceded defeat. So, they are Kenyans.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is politics. As some would go and say that they are united in one thing that one person will not be the President of this country. That person has also the right to say do not trust the people who opposed the same Constitution because they will not implement it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, all I want to say is that let preach and drink what we say.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Chepalungu coined the phrase here: “Do not be vague, say Hague”
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Prime Minister in order to use his time to spread propaganda? I would like him to substantiate and prove by producing the HANSARD Report in which I coined such a statement. It is clear that before the House at that time was the choice whether to establish a local tribunal or not. It was not a choice between a local tribunal and The Hague. This is misinformation. It is the same misinformation that he would like to use his time to spread.
He has just mentioned that he was in Switzerland attending a meeting of Heads of State and Governments. What was he doing in Switzerland, and yet he is not even a Head of State neither is he a President? Was he not simply wasting public funds?
Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Wavinya Ndeti!
Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, you may respond to the first part of the point of order by the hon. Ruto. The second part breaches the rule of relevance.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first point was about “do not be vague, say Hague”. That did not go on the HANSARD. It was sung when the HANSARD was off, when there was a division!
It did not go on record. It was clear, in fact, it was inferred in the Waki Report---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is Member for Chepalungu? Please, it must be within the Standing Orders.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not digress. Now that the Prime Minister has conceded that it was not in the HANSARD and that it was never said here, could he then withdraw and apologise for bring matters that are outside the House which he cannot substantiate?
Order! I did not hear the Prime Minister say that you said on record. If the Prime Minister said so, then perhaps, I want to be informed.
Did you say, he said it on record?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I only said that he coined a phrase which was being sung during the time when the division was ringing.
If that is what the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister said then it is a matter of public not rarity because the Press has also reported quoting the hon. Member. So, if he is referring to Press, that would be different. It is not even the concern of Mr. Speaker, what is reported in the Press I cannot vouch to its accuracy.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, it was actually inferred in the Waki Report that we did not set up a local tribunal, then the matter would go the Hague. That is the reason why he prepared an envelope which was sealed and handed over to Kofi Annan, not President Kibaki or Raila Odinga; that if the Government does not set a independent tribal to investigate and try the perpetrators of post-election violence then the envelope should be handed over to the International Criminal Court (ICC). So, it is not Raila Odinga who took the envelop to ICC. It was this House at the instigation of the people who are known who took Kenyans to be tried at the ICC. We said we did not want Kenyans to be tried outside this country. We said that we want Kenyans to be tried here so that if they are found guilty we can forgive them, and say let us forgive, heal the wounds the way they did in South Africa.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, so let no falsehoods be told about an innocent member of this House by those people who are seeking sympathy. We are praying, but nobody has gone in the public to pray for the victims of the post-election violence, the people who died.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Member for Eldoret North?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to continue on a charade on matters that he has not been asked by anybody and to speak to the matters he has mentioned? While it is true that the local tribunal was brought to this House, it is the manner in which the local tribunal had been set up at that time. There was to be a court in Eldoret, Kisumu, Kericho and Nakuru, yet violence was in the whole country. Those were the matters that were prosecuted at that point in time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, a constitutional Bill that was brought to this House. The Prime Minister is on record, as late as today, castigating people who have prayed for the people who have been taken to the Hague. Who has stopped the Prime Minister from praying for other people? If he does not want to engage in the prayers he should just keep his peace instead of trying to castigate those people who are engaged in prayers for others; if he feels very passionate about praying for other people, nobody has stopped him from going ahead. So, I think the Prime Minister should be stopped from engaging this House in unnecessary charade of issues. In any case, let me speak to the Prime Minister directly. The Secretary General of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) wrote to the United Nations--- It is on record that the ODM said that they wanted those who had been taken to the Hague to be tried there, and that there was no court in Kenya that could try us. That letter is a matter of public record. Was that letter issued with the permission of the Prime Minister? Was it issued by the Secretary General with the permission of the Prime Minister, or with his knowledge or on his instructions?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! This matter really must come to an end. Hon. Samoei, you have made your point. I have allowed you latitude because I wanted you to similarly have an opportunity to ventilate. Right hon. Prime Minister, as you
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! You come from the Cabinet where the Prime Minister belongs! Do you want a point of order to correct something that the Right hon. Prime Minister has said?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to give him some piece of information although I am in the Cabinet!
Order! Information to whom, Mr. ole Ntimama?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to the Prime Minister himself!
To the Prime Minister?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir!
Order! The Right honourable Prime Minister, do you want information from honourable ole Ntimama?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to give the hon. Prime Minister some information.
Order, hon. Ntimama! Mr. ole Ntimama, I have intimated earlier on as I spoke to hon. Samoei, hon. Ruto and even the Right hon. Prime Minister that when you catch the Speaker’s eye to contribute to any matter before the House, you must live within the ambit of the Standing Orders; I am afraid that although you caught the Speaker’s eye to give information to the Right hon. Prime Minister, you have not done so. Instead you have spoken to hon. Samoei. I rule that out of order and I direct that, that information, for whatever it is worth, be expunged in its entirety from the records of the House this afternoon.
Right hon. Prime Minister, give a response only to the extent that you must.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Member has alleged that the reason why they disagreed with the Bill was because it categorized the country and came up with courts in a specific parts of the country. That was one Bill, but there was another Bill which was brought later by hon. Mutula Kilonzo, which has removed all those provisions. That Bill was also rejected. It also did not come to the Floor of the
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Dr. Khalwale!
Right hon. Prime Minister, is that really helpful to the House?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am giving him information.
Why do you not restrict yourself to what you must do?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Gitobu Imanyara brought a Bill before this House to set up a tribunal. That was also rejected.
Order, Right hon. Prime Minister! That is not accurate. The Bill by hon. Imanyara is still pending before this House, and it is not rejected. Be accurate, Right hon. Prime Minister?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for jogging my memory.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! We really must conclude this matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it did not see the light of the day for reasons which are obvious.
So, hon. Samoei is a good friend of mine, and I would be the last person to wish him harm. I talked to him because he was away when we resolved that we were going to support the local tribunal. When he arrived he addressed a Press conference at the airport and said he was against it, because he thought it would target just the small fish, and not the big fish who could not be tried here. He said we we could only get justice at the Hague. That was then. He found out much later that this had happened.
All that I am saying is that this country needs reconciliation. This country has gone through trying times, but not worse than what South Africa went through. The South Africans had a bigger and wider vision and they were able to resolve their internal differences in a much more civilized manner, and they reconciled their society. We can also do it in this country, but we cannot do it when we try to condemn the innocent. So, let us face the facts. Let us trace our steps backwards and find out how we can find a solution that will ensure that this country remains united and peaceful, so that it is able to achieve what our founding wanted, which is contained in the Kenyan dream.
I thank you.
Very well. Order, hon. Members! That then brings us to almost the end of statements. I am afraid that I will want to defer your Statement to the earliest sitting tomorrow. Depending on the fate of Order No.8, you will determine what time you can deliver that Statement.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This morning, the Deputy Speaker sanctioned the Ministry of Water and Irrigation from transacting business in the House. The Assistant Minister for the Ministry gave an explanation as to why we were not here to answer the Question on time because we had some information that had not reached our office before we came here. So, I would like to apologise so that you can lift the sanction on us.
Very well! Mrs. Charity Ngilu, indeed, the Deputy Speaker has conveyed that information to me. The sanctions imposed by him this morning are, therefore, discharged. You are free to transact business beginning this sitting.
I thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Very well! Let us move on to the next Order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the Provisions of Standing Order 20(3) This House resolves to hold a Sitting on Thursday 16th, Tuesday 21st, and Thursday 23rd February, 2012 commencing at 9.00 a.m. to 12.30 p.m. This Motion is informed by the need for us to do as much as we can to deal with the Bills particularly those on land and devolution ahead of the deadline which is on 26th of this month. I have given an undertaking that I will come and respond to the concerns raised by the Member for Chepalungu with regard to Government commitment to this very important matter of implementing the Constitution. Therefore, I want to urge hon. colleagues to treat this matter with absolute good faith because it is a matter we deliberated on as the House Business Committee and all of us are convinced that this is the way to go if, indeed, we will continue to show commitment that this House hitherto as shown with regard to full implementation of our Constitution. Mr. Speaker Sir, it should also be noted that it is not the Executive alone; we have, of course, an independent Commission, the CIOC in particular and Kenyans who must have their ideas reflected in the legislation that subsequently finds its way to the Floor of this House. Therefore, I just want to say at this particular moment that the Cabinet has done all that is within its powers including sitting very long hours to prepare the Bills that are now properly before the House. I know that you had to call for the Special Session of this House in order for us to be able to deal with these issues. Therefore, I want to urge that colleagues agree with this Motion. I will call on the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government who is also the first Deputy Leader of Government Business, hon. Mudavadi, to second this Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to second this Motion and
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion with a view of convincing the public that we truly debate for quality here. It is not true that we just look through Bills as pieces of paper. Because of the voluminous nature of the Bills that are before us, we need this time. This will also help members of the public to follow the proceedings live like they always do in their offices and as they drive to work and other places so that truly and ultimately all these Bills get a fair treatment. I support the Procedural Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy, Sir, I also wish to support this Motion. I know that we are unhappy with the Government on why it delayed, why it was late to open the House and all those whys. But maji yakimwagika, hayazoleki . Let us deal with what is now and give it our best shot. We must work extra hard. It is expected of us. It is now a moment in history that is called upon us as Members of the Tenth Parliament and let us live up to it as we have done before. I support.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion. The reason is that when we were recalled from leave, we were recalled to work. Therefore, we have to put all our effort. We appreciate that for the Government to come up with all these Bills, it required the participation of other organs or institutions and probably that is why it delayed. We should now roll our sleeves so that our Constitution can finally be fulfilled as we promised the public. I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Procedural Motion. While I do this, I would like to call upon the Executive, at least, to realise the hemorrhage they are causing this House, the Tenth Parliament, in terms of Committees not even having to deal with Committee issues but having to narrow down to debating the specific Bills. Because they are also part of this House, they should also strive in future. We were just raising concerns as to when the Bills that are supposed to be passed by 27th August this year which have a timeline of two years--- As a house, we expect that the Bills are here timely so that again we are not forced to have extra sitting hours or extra session of days just because the Executive has gone to slumber or to sleep
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am just wondering whether we are alive to the fact that once Bills are read the first time, they stand committed to the relevant Departmental Committees. If so, what is the purpose of those Committees if not to scrutinize those Bills and have public participation? If we are asked to commit ourselves to debate these Bills now, presuming that that is what we are being asked to do, are we then effectively not saying that we are bypassing those Committees? If we are, then why did we withdraw some Orders from the Order Paper yesterday that were bypassing the Committees? Again, we are effectively bypassing the Committees. I cannot find myself going through those voluminous Bills without the assistance of the relevant Committees or even having sufficient time before I come to debate and, therefore, be part of passing a Bill which I have not exhausted in my understanding of it. If this is what we are being asked to do, then I am afraid I will not go along with the others. Then we will actually be bypassing our own Standing Orders and the Constitution. In that case, I oppose this Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support the Motion. I believe the extension of the hours is because of the heavy legislative agenda before us that will bring before this House matters that are of sensitive nature that have long divided this nation and caused us to shed blood. These are matters touching on boundaries, land and devolution of resources. We need to go beyond the extra mile to ensure that we discharge our mandate. I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion. As I support, I really do not see the sacrifice the Members of Parliament want to think we are making by sitting on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. There is no sacrifice because all that we have done is to replace Committee work with Parliament work, namely, debate in the Chamber. So, if we had not allocated this time which we are now seeking through this Motion, then we would be in our Committees on that Tuesday morning and Thursday morning doing the usual Parliamentary work. So, since the Members of Parliament, who are not Members of the Cabinet have shelved aside their business in the Committees for the sake of this very heavy agenda, I would like to call upon my brother, the Leader of Government Business and tell him that we are supporting him. He also has unique brains in the Cabinet, men and women who he should whip, so that they can sit here with us, we debate this matter when they are here instead of leaving it to a small bunch of Members of Parliament from the Back Bench, as you know. We need to move together, so that we can benefit from the thinking collectively of all the Members of Parliament in this country. I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, very briefly, I also rise to support this very important Motion. Ahead of us is serious business that Kenyans are
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you because I rise to oppose this Motion. You realize that yesterday the mood was against a similar Motion. The point or the philosophy behind this is so that we shed much more light into these Bills instead of the heat that they are going to generate. They are decent Bills here that would ordinarily go to different Departmental Committees. If we spare time so that these Bills are subjected to the Departmental Committees, we will be able to deal with them simultaneously, but if we take the Committees’ time into the House time, then we will have to deal with these Bills in series instead of dealing with them at parallel. I oppose.
Leader of Government business, you can respond quickly.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought that you would just simply put the question because I do not think this is the kind of Motion that requires any response. But now that you have given me the Floor, I just want to confirm that the House Committees, for instance on Local Authorities, have been sitting. I remember I looked for the Chairman on telephone, the Member for Kinangop, and he confirmed that they are on top of things and that, in fact, they will be going along with the House as we move. Therefore, I want to confirm that nothing untold is actually happening.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the Provisions of Standing Order 107, this House orders that the publication period of the Land Registration Bill (Bill No. 4 of 2012) and the National Land Commission Bill (Bill No. 5 of 2012) be reduced from 14 to 5 days. This Motion is also informed by the discussion we have just had on the commitment by this House to do serious business. I can tell you that the Cabinet, on its part, did the best we could and I am sure the Committee on the Implementation of the Constitution as well, but I think the Members will need to get prepared for very exciting debate on these very important Bills dealing with land. As the Member for Saboti has just observed, Kenyans shed blood because of land. Kenyans are looking forward to a very informed debate on this matter. But in order to give effect to the decision this House has just made that we need to sit on the various days as elaborated, namely, Thursday this week and Tuesday and Thursday next week, it is important that we shorten the publication period in order to be ready. My learned friend and the Minister for Lands informs me that he is absolutely prepared to do exactly what the Member for Ikolomani was challenging me to do. I am
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to second this Motion. The argument has been well put by the Leader of Government Business and indeed, just to emphasize, the Speaker has been talking of this being a special sitting. We have this business to conduct. So, I would urge the Members to support this reduction from 14 to 5 days. This again, does not prevent the relevant Committees from also looking at those Bills concurrently. I beg to second.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. The reason I do so is because these Bills have timelines and we do not have much time to meet that timeline. So, if we do not shorten the period, we will be going over the period within which we are supposed to pass these Bills. For this reason, I would urge the Members that we support this Motion to shorten the period so that we can be within the constitutional requirement. I beg to support. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to add onto what Mr. Ngugi has said. There is some opinion which is also going round that we will not have enough time to look into the issues, the issues are heavy and land registration is such a difficult thing. However, I want to tell my colleagues that we have been with these issues for years. We have studied them, we have been in school with these things, we are now in leadership and so we know the difficulties. We know the problems. Now, it is decision time and we must do it. We must bite the bullet! We must pass these laws. If it is just burning a few more hours, let us do it because we must make decisions. We must make decision; whether it is right or wrong, and it must be timeously. So, I support this move to reduce the publication period to five days. At any rate, it is enough time for us to read the Bill, understand it, digest it and make reasonable contributions. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion because the land issue has been a serious problem in this country. Here is an opportunity for us to deal with the problem and fix it, once and for all.
I support a reduction of days for the publication.
I will give a chance to Mr. Mututho followed by the Minister for Lands and the Leader of Government Business to close. This is only a Procedural Motion!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. As I have said time and again, in agriculture, there are only four factors of production. Among them that is most cardinal is land. The issues of land, as long as they remain
as they are today, they will continue to affect the entire economy.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion. But just to mention that in preparation of these Bills, we took the extra step of engaging hon. Members at a workshop to look at the Bills. Subsequent to the workshop, the relevant Committee headed by my friend Mr. Musyimi looked into these Bills. The outcome of that workshop in Naivasha was considered in the Bill. So, I think hon. Members will not be confronted with these Bills for the first time. I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I simply beg to move.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The County Governments Bill be read a Second Time.
While moving, I would like to, first of all, make some preliminary remarks to acknowledge the people who have a made a tremendous contribution in getting to where we are in the draft Bill being before hon. Members and also to help the country understand through a recap the process that we have undergone to get where we are. I would like to take this opportunity at the very outset to thank the taskforce that I sent up under the chairmanship of Dr. Mutakha Kangu which comprised of very many eminent Kenyans from different parts of the country who had the mandate to help us think through the aspects of this subject called devolution as envisaged in Chapter 11 of the Constitution and, indeed, in other clauses within the Constitution that touch on devolution.
For record purposes, this taskforce was set up on 20th February, 2011 and they had sessions in all the 47 counties running from the time they were inaugurated to 15th
Order, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government! You have persisted in referring to the Chair as “Mr. Speaker”. Please, note that there is a change in the Chair.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I note that there is a change in the Chair, and you are equal to the task. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to point out that there is the issue of the appointment of the county secretaries. This is important because these are going to be the top officers in the respective county governments. We are providing for a process on how those persons can be appointed by the governors. We have also provided for the appointment of the other county chief officers, under Article 45. All these processes are important for hon. Members to look at very carefully. I now move to Part XI, which deals with the decentralised units. These are the urban areas and cities in the county governments, which are covered under Article 48. We also have the sub-counties, which are equivalent to the constituencies, as we have pointed out herein. We then have the wards, which are the smaller units within the constituencies.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill. I am just going to make general remarks because we have been taken through the Bill by the Deputy Prime Minister. Under the Constitution, the main organs for enabling or implementing legislation is the Kenya Law Reform Commission, the Constitution Implementation Commission (CIC), the Office of the Attorney-General and to some extent the line Ministries. However, the point here must be bid that specifically looking at the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution and Section 261 of the Constitution, the duty and functions of these three bodies are very important and critical. I initially have thought that the CIC has a peripheral role in terms of the preparation and tabling of these Bills before they are actually published and discussed in Parliament. If you look at the schedule, the work of the Commission is larger than it seems and, indeed, they are required to get involved in the preparation of the Bill and audit it against the Constitution to come up with a conclusion as to whether or not any legislation coming before this House not only meets the time lines, but is in consonance with the constitutional arrangement. So, within that
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Bill. I think it is an important document that this House needs to look at and support because it is prepared properly. I also want to commend the Minister for the professional presentation of this Bill.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this country adopted this new Constitution because the people wanted a Constitution, a principle law that will give them the opportunity to manage their own affairs on the ground. The majority of us struggled in this country to bring this Constitution to be. Most of this is because we wanted to empower the people on the ground to be in charge of their own destiny. Indeed, that is what the world should be. So, I always say, and I have said many times, that we have never had a Constitution since Independence. The Lancaster House Constitution was abrogated by a few people. We know that. As I said, we were ruled under dictatorship. This is because it was a one-man rule or a cartel rule.
So, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Constitution, which has brought us here now, is the one that I think is the only Constitution we have got since Independence. This Constitution is for the people which have been made by the people which according Abraham Lincolin is the real democracy as it were. It is important to realize that, this Bill here has been written, prepared for the County Government. The County Government is the basis for democracy. It is the basis for devolution. Call it devolution, it does not matter, what you call it. You can call it federal or majimbo, but it is for the people on the ground to be able to manage their own affairs. I think it has done properly.
If we are not careful and if the Government is not careful, especially the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Local Government, we could devolve some bad things or corruption. We must end corruption at this level, so that it does not go to the people, so that we do not devolve stealing, so that we do not devolve embezzlement of public funds, so that we do not devolve anything that really messes the county as it were. The counties need money to develop the people. That money, apart from the money that is coming from the Government, is from the County itself. It must be properly managed. It is a fact that local authorities are the second most corrupt institution in this country after the police. That is a fact. So, we must be very careful to make sure that this corruption does not devolve there. Once let little genes of corruption go into the county, then we will be in a mess because we will, probably, never able to clean that huge thing called the county with everybody around, especially when they all get involved in this kind of things.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir I have to talk more about my own county, Narok. Right now, we have a problem and the Minister knows it very well because I wrote to him a letter saying that I was really agonized by the kind of malpractices there. I mentioned malpractices that were taking place in Narok County Council right then. The Local Authority Transfer Fund (LATF) is being used like a personal donation by the people who control the county, from the chief officers to the councillors and other people. So, unless he does something like overhauling that council, there is going to be a problem.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to also make my thoughts known on this very good Bill. I also want to congratulate the Minister for all the good work they have done. I want to congratulate the taskforces that have been involved in developing the Bill that is before us today. Our duty in the House is to make what is good better. So, I want the Minister to note some things. I want to make specific suggestion. I will avoid generalities, so that we can think together and make the Bill even more effective than it is right now.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the first thing that I want to point out is on the county assembly that is under Part III. There are very many good provisions there; but if we think together, we can improve certain articles that the Minister has brought us to look at. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the first thing I want the Minister to think with me is on Section 10. The proposed Section 10 of the Bill provides for the leader of majority and minority in the county and there is a clear provision in terms of the order of protocol from the beginning up to the leader of the minority of a party. What is practical is that national politics hardly affects the way operations take place in the local areas. Therefore, in terms of the coalitions that will help create the leader of the majority and the leader of the minority, while here in Parliament, the Leader of the ODM, NARC (K), PNU and whatever is so important, down there, people work
Hon. Mungatana, you will have 12 minutes to proceed when this matter is before the House again.
Hon. Members, you may wish to recall that earlier in the afternoon, you passed a Procedural Motion to allow sittings and especially for tomorrow morning. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until Thursday, 16th February, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.