Is there a petition, Member for Mosop? Member for Mosop, is your petition approved?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Is it approved?
It is approved, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Very well. If it is, you may then proceed. Order, Member for Mosop! You have reports on petitions?
I have a report, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is why---
You should have said, “Reports on Petitions”.
I have a report on a petition.
Okay, proceed. You can table them at this point. NON-ACCREDITATION OF ENGINEERING COURSES AT KENYATTA, MASINDE MULIRO & MOI UNIVERSITIES BY KERB
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Report on a Petition on the Table of the House today, Thursday 30th August, 2012. It is the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the non- accreditation of engineering students of Kenyatta, Masinde Muliro and Moi universities by the Kenya Engineers Registration Board (KERB).
Order, Member for Mosop! So that our records are clear, you have intimated to me and indeed to the House that, that is a report pursuant to a petition. Can you kindly indicate which petition and when it was raised in the House? Member for Mosop, you know that is important. I will tell you why.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry for this. It was approved some one minute to this time. This is a petition which was committed to this Committee. The petition was raised on behalf of the students by Dr. Bonnie Khalwale, the Member of Parliament for Ikolomani.
Fair enough. That is good.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Report of a petition on the Table of the House today, 30th August, 2012. It is the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the cancellation of 2011 KCSE Results in Garissa, Wajir and Mandera counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a petition brought to this House by Mr. Aden Duale on behalf of the students who were affected. I beg to lay.
Very well. Member for Mosop, you may resume your seat but I still want you to report to one aspect on which I gave directions just about 21 days ago. Have you complied with Standing Order No.210 with respect to dispatching copies of your report to the petitioners?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was waiting for your approval and I will do so immediately.
Fair enough. Please, endevour to do so immediately hereafter. Next Order!
Yes, Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology, I believe you have a Paper to lay. The following Paper was laid on the Table:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the transfer of Moi University School of Environmental Studies from the main campus to Chepkoilel University College a constituent college of Moi University.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that Idavaga Muslim Secondary School in Vihiga District cannot carry out its expansion programmes because its land has been encroached?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Idavaga Muslim Secondary School in Vihiga District, which I have personally visited, has a land feud with the family of Mzee Zubedi which has affected the expansion of the school programmes. (b) In realization of that problem, following my visit to the school on the invitation of the hon. Member, I have now sent a team of my officers to the ground to get more information regarding the matter and particularly the nature of the dispute so as to enable me to make appropriate decision in order to assist the school in implementing its expansion programmes. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister. I am happy that it is the substantive Minister answering this Question. Last week, his Assistant Minister answered the same way. He requested that they be given one week so that they can come up with a proper answer. That is exactly what the Minister is saying now. I do not know whether the Minister is aware that the answer I have been given has supplementary information which I think serves quite a lot in giving the answer to this Question. The assurance I would like the Minister to give is: How long is this going to take? I would like it to be done properly so that we can have this matter sorted out. The school has an enrolment of over 200 students. This school was just started recently; about three-and-a-half years to four years ago. It already has an enrolment of 227 students. Expansion is a problem; we cannot put up a laboratory, classrooms and other facilities that are required. How long is this likely to take?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue has actually dragged for a very long time. The information I have and that is what I want verified by the team, is that Mzee Zubedi sold the land to the Muslim community in 1961 even before Independence. The Muslim community later gave the land to the Idavaga Primary School, who are bona fide land title holders at this moment. Unfortunately, Mzee Zubedi requested to continue staying on the land and upon his death, the land was to revert to the school. After the death of Mr. Zubedi, some two granddaughters later refused to vacate the school land. In 2003 the school secured an eviction order for the two families but the two moved to court to halt the order. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Provincial Land Tribunal was consulted in 2005 to resolve the case. The eviction order dragged on again until the tribunal was dissolved without concluding the case. The school has since gone to court again to have eviction order but the order is yet to be executed. This is really sad saga because in the Board of Governors meeting held two weeks ago, it was reported that the two families now wanted Kshs1.6 million as compensation to leave the school land. The areas chief and a small committee were mandated to follow the matter to its logical conclusion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the chief reported that some outside forces were interfering with the issue. The school was given Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) funding for a classroom and the money has been pending for a year now due to the above issues. Again, this year, the CDF gave the school money and lack of space for expansion is an issue. The school has a form four class for 2013 and plans to build them a classroom have
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a matter of public interest because it involves a school which has students, and there is a contest between the school community and the two grandchildren of the late mzee . There is already an agreement to the effect that Kshs1.6 million is the amount requested by these grandchildren. Since the Minister has sufficient information, instead of waiting for four weeks, why can he not settle quickly with the two grandchildren, and give an undertaking that he will be able to settle the Kshs1.6 million vis-a-vis the national interest involved in this matter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to being a trained lawyer, I am also trained not to succumb to blackmail. That is why I want time to determine whether the request for Kshs1.6 million is warranted. I opened by saying that the grandfather of these two Kenyan ladies sold the land to the school, and the school has a title deed. Therefore, I do not want to jump the gun and start agreeing to payment when it has already been made. I must admit that when I went to the school, I met with the Imam who impressed me as an able man. Kindly, allow me this opportunity to hold discussions and report within a month’s time. The school will not be disadvantaged unduly. This is a very homogeneous community of Muslims which should not pay an additional Kshs1.6 million in a situation where they had already paid for the land in 1961. I would hesitate to go that way.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the Minister for making an effort to visit the subject of dispute, could the Minister consider buying alternative land, probably adjacent to the school, because we do not know when the dispute is likely to be settled, so that the children will continue learning and their transition is not affected.
I want to thank the hon. Member for that suggestion, but my visit to the site demonstrated a heavily populated area. Therefore, to be able to get the sort of land that would satisfy the needs of the school - it is already structured in a particular manner - might not be possible. We might not be able to get contiguous land next to this school. I have also been struggling with the idea of recommending going upwards because the sky is the limit. We can have double storey buildings and structures. Again, the reason why I do not want to go that way at this point, is that we do not want to succumb to this sort of situation where a family sells land then they renege on the agreement and get away with it, thereby exposing a school. Therefore, I would prefer that this team goes quietly and engages everybody, including Mr. Chanzu, so that we can come up with a more permanent solution, so that the community and the school do not lose the money they paid in 1961. I think it is very unfair; if Mzee Zubedi was to wake up - I am sure he is in paradise because he obviously wanted the community to benefit since
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the record, I want to correct the name. The name is “Zuberi” and not “Zubedi”. The Minister has just talked about a very viable option because of the crisis right now. I just wanted to request him if he could consider to factor in any resources from the Ministry to the school, so that they can construct upwards. Actually, that is what will happen. That should happen because we do not know how much time the court is going to take on the matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, having the benefit of having been there myself, and even praying with the children, I have already recommended that they give me a request for infrastructure support. The request that I have received is for a library, and I am looking at it with a very keen and nice eye with a view to a favourable consideration. If the school was to consider developing a plan without prejudice to their right to continue claiming the land owned by this family, I have no doubt in my mind that we would definitely consider support upward development as opposed to ground development. MURDER OF PASTOR JAMES ATIENO AT ABC CHURCH IN KAYOLE
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Under what circumstances was Pastor James Omoth Atieno at ABC church in Kayole killed on 27th June, 2012? (b) Has any suspect(s) in relation to the murder been arrested and arraigned in a court of law and, if not, when will they be arrested?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware of the increased vandalism of transformers for cooling oil and scrap metal, telkom wires for copper, wood furniture and home appliances for sale as scrap metal. (b) I am aware that the crime has continue to increase due to the high demand of iron for construction in Kenya---
Order, Mr. Minister! What Question are you answering? Are you answering Question No. 3 by Private Notice? I do not think so, considering the content of your statements so far.
I am sorry, I mixed up my documents.
Do you want some time?
No. I am ready, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) On 27th June, 2012, Pastor James Omollo Atieno of ABC Church, Kayole, was asleep in his house within the church compound situated within Soweto Area near Masimba Stage in Kayole. At about 3.00 a.m. an unknown number of gangsters entered the church compound from the back after cutting through the fence and forced open the door to the pastor’s house. On entering, one of the gangsters struck him once in the head. The pastor screamed only once before dying. His nephew, Master Harold Auma Ojongo, who was asleep in another room within the same house and a watchman, who apparently was asleep inside the church house, were awakened by the commotion. Immediately thereafter three of the gangsters entered into the pastor’s nephew’s room and ordered him to lie on the Floor and tied his hands with ropes. They started packing music equipment which was kept in the room in cartons. The watchman saw three men standing guard outside the door of the pastor’s house and tried to call the pastor through his mobile to warn him not to open the door but the calls went unanswered. The watchman then started calling neighbours on phone to alert them of the thugs. Meanwhile after packing the music equipment, one of the thugs started calling for a taxi on the phone. After waiting for transport for some time, the gang abandoned their loot and instead stole one portable generator and two mobile phones belonging to the deceased and his nephew and disappeared on foot into the darkness. A neighbour who had been alerted by the watchman’s calls alerted the Administration Police officers who rushed to the scene but found that the gang had already left. (b) No suspects have been arrested. However, Kayole Police Station Case File No.135/308/2012 was opened by the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) officers who are following crucial leads which may lead to the arrest of the culprits. The case is, therefore, pending under investigations.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it really beats logic as to why this watchman has not been arrested. All this time when these people were actually hacking the pastor, he was there, but he never raised the alarm. Up to now, the police have not arrested him. Could the Minister tell us why he has been left loose without being arrested?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the information which I have given, I think the watchman made frantic efforts to communicate with the pastor before he was hacked to death. He also communicated with the neighbours pleading with them to assist him. Therefore, I do not think it would be in order to arrest and charge him with the murder of the pastor.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the information that was given to the police was that this pastor had an exchange with the former chairman of the church, Mr. Gideon Mulili and ABC Makadara Church pastor, Canon Mutua, a few days before he died. The two actually threatened him. They had warned him against revealing certain things to the Bishop. They told him if he did so, they would deal with him. Three days later, he was actually killed. Could the Minister also consider taking some action by arresting the two for questioning, so that we may know whether they participated in this particular heinous act?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the information given by the hon. Member is correct that the Chairman and the pastor had quarreled three days before he was
The hon. Member for Kilome?
asked the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs if he could clarify whether the then Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC) in 2004 and 2005 investigated the offence of money laundering at Charterhouse Bank Ltd. and, if it is true, to provide a list of the offences established.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank the Assistant Minister for the very able reply. He says the Charterhouse Bank was closed because of failure to follow banking prudential guidelines. Could he confirm from 2004 to date, has any other bank violated such prudential guidelines? If so, could he provide a list?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am able to confirm to this House, of course, that Charterhouse Bank Ltd. was closed as a result of failure by them to comply with certain banking prudential guidelines. It would be very difficult for me at this point in time to really confirm or deny if other banks were closed between the same periods as a result of such reasons. That is a Question that can be directed to the relevant Ministry because banking is really in the domain of the Ministry of Finance.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when this Question came to the House on Thursday, 2nd August, 2012, we asked the Assistant Minister whether he was satisfied that the Wanjikus and Akinyis who deposited their money in Charterhouse Bank were
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, when this Question came before the House on 2nd August, 2012, hon. Kabogo raised that issue. I undertook to confirm two issues; the issue as to really why the bank was closed. With regard to the closure, I have been able to confirm today here that it was closed not because of the allegation of money laundering, but because of non-compliance with the prudential guidelines. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me just mention that some of the guidelines were not followed by the bank, for example, lending to some companies in excess of the single borrowing limit of 25 per cent, of the core capital. That is one guideline which was breached. Another issue is inside lending without adequate security. The other issue is retention of bad and doubtful debts---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to refuse to answer a question asked by the hon. Member? Is he aware there is a court order allowing the bank---
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! The Assistant Minister has not even completed answering the hon. Member’s question. How do you know he will not answer it? Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question was asked by hon. Kabogo. I was addressing myself to the specific guidelines. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the process of re-opening the bank is really the function of the Ministry of Finance. Of course, I know there is the principle of collective responsibility in the Government. As I said, the closure of this bank was not in any way linked to money laundering. All my Ministry can do is to communicate our opinion to the Ministry of Finance for them to take appropriate action and re-open this bank. That responsibility falls under their domain.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, and using all the written and unwritten statutes, is he satisfied that justice is being done to the shareholders and depositors of this bank? Was this bank essentially closed because of political or technical reasons? We know of a bank that was owned by a Cabinet Minister which was closed because of political reasons.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, truly, the depositors and shareholders of Charterhouse bank have not received justice in this particular process. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government needs to do something because this bank is holding deposits of many innocent Kenyans. So, in view of what I have seen and considering a resolution of this House, this bank should be re-opened. The depositors, including my brother Mr. Kabogo here, are suffering unjustly. He is not able to enjoy his wealth. Indeed, the depositors of this bank have not received any justice in this process. I agree with the proposal that action be taken by the relevant Ministry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has confirmed to us this bank was not closed because of money laundering. Could he confirm to the House whether this bank will be fined for violating prudential guidelines before it is re-opened? Has he contacted the Ministry of Finance to know what this bank will be fined as penalty for violating these guidelines?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that there are certain penalties levied to banks which do not comply with the prudential guidelines. For example, in this particular case, in 2006, Charterhouse bank was ordered to pay a penalty of Kshs1 million. However, they continued breaching these guidelines which culminated in the closure of the bank. I confirm there are certain penalties assigned to those banks that do not comply with those guidelines.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us how many times this bank breached these prudential guidelines that warranted its closure? We are aware that Barclays Bank of Kenya and Standard Chartered banks have breached these prudential guidelines many times, but they have never been closed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may not really confirm the number of times they breached these guidelines. In my view, it is not really the number of times they have done so, but it is the continuity in the breach which matters. So, I am not able to confirm the number of times, but there was a breach of those prudential guidelines by this bank.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the depositors of these banks since 2006 have been suffering because the bank is still under statutory management. The Committees of this House have recommended the re-opening of the bank, but nobody seems to adhere or in any way comply with the resolutions of this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has confirmed that Charterhouse bank was closed because of violating the Central Bank’s prudential guidelines. From 2004 to date, could he confirm whether there has been any other bank which has violated similar prudential guidelines? If any, could he table the list before this House? Why is it difficult for him to produce such a list? What is happening here is pure impunity that is making innocent people suffer and we have to protect them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Question by the Member was very specific. His concern about other banks which have violated these guidelines and have not been closed is genuine because we need to know why this bank was closed and not others. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek your directions here because the issue of tabling those guidelines is really in the domain of the Ministry of Finance. I have been able to deal with the Question in so far as the issue touching on the defunct Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC) is concerned. We will write to the Ministry of Finance to be able to deal with that particular issue because it falls under CBK and Ministry of Finance.
I will give you directions. Hon. Members, we have already spent a lot of time on this Question and we really want to move on. But Assistant Minister, the Member for Kilome has among other things asked you why your Ministry or the Ministry of Finance has not proceeded to re-open the bank even after the findings of a Committee of Parliament and you have not responded to that. Could you kindly do so?
It is true that I have not been able to respond to that particular issue because the line Ministry that should deal with the direction of this House is the Ministry of Finance. I may have to, perhaps, liaise with them but I am seeking your directions because the Ministry to execute this particular issue, to comply with the direction of this House, is the Ministry of Finance. On the basis of collective responsibility, I can take up the issue, but it would have been more prudent for the relevant Minister, in charge of this department to come before the House and give a clear indication. I seek your directions on the matter.
In that case, Assistant Minister, do you want to ask for time to invoke the doctrine of collective responsibility which you seem to be very conversant with or do you want us to defer the Question for that particular Question that has been asked to be answered by the Minister for Finance?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek that the part of the Question which is now before us and the House, be re-directed and answered by the Ministry of Finance. That is my humble request.
That is your plea, because you think that even if you invoked collective responsibility, you will not be able to do justice to it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are certain issues which may not be adequately addressed by my Ministry in this particular case.
Hon. Members, as I said earlier on, we have already spent too much time on this Question. I will defer the Question to two weeks away and will want the Minister for Finance to come prepared to answer that supplementary question that was asked by the Member for Kilome, with respect to non-compliance with findings of a Parliamentary Committee. Member for Kilome, after the Minister for Finance responds to that particular Question, we can take up the matter as to the way forward. Member for Kilome!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your guidance, only that I will ask now that the Assistant Minister has confirmed that Charterhouse bank was closed because of violating the banking prudential guidelines, when the Minister comes to reply, he should confirm whether from 2004 to date, similar prudential guidelines alluded to have been violated by any other bank and if so, compile a full---
Indeed, Member for Kilome, you have raised that matter already and it will be part of what the Minister for Finance will come and deal with. Order! Order! Member for Eldoret North, I have seen you but I am afraid I cannot give you the Floor now. Member for Makueni!
asked the Minister for Education:- (a) why Mr. Mutie Samuel Munyao (TSC No. 384373) was dismissed by Teachers Service Commission (TSC) on 1st March, 2010 while the Commission was fully aware that he was suffering from acute Pelvic Ulcer Disease (PUD); and, (b) whether he could consider reinstating him into the service.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to beg the House for indulgence that I answer this Question on Wednesday. I know that this is the second time I am doing so, but it is a very delicate matter involving the rights of a citizen who also happens to be a teacher. I am still in the process of collecting sufficient data so that I can deal with it sufficiently and to the satisfaction of the citizen as well as my good friend, hon. Peter Kiilu. I would, therefore, request that I be given indulgence to answer this Question on Wednesday next week. I have already communicated this to the hon. Member and would rather hear what he has to say.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would accede to the request by the Minister, so this Question is answered on next week on Wednesday.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to you, the House and hon. Peter Kiilu. Would I be in order to say that I had also prepared an answer to the Question by Private Notice for hon. Pesa and it was not called?
We are aware. It is in the Order Paper.
Minister, are you dealing with Question No.1337? The good lady is keeping me engaged.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not blame you. She is a very good lady.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought that, that matter was resolved. I requested for indulgence and my good friend has agreed. So, I will answer the Question on Wednesday next week.
Very well. It is so directed.
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he is aware that due to high demand of scrap metal, vandalism has greatly increased especially the destruction and theft of
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware of the increased vandalism of transformers for cooling oil and scrap metal, Telkom wires for copper, road furniture and home appliances for sale as scrap metal. (b) I am aware that the crime has continued to increase due to the high demand for iron for construction in Kenya and other countries which has made scrap metal trade very lucrative. This increase is, however, not as a result of lenient fines and jail terms imposed on culprits. For instance, under the Kenya Information and Communications Act 1998, which was amended on 12th July, 2012, a person convicted under the Act for vandalism and any act involving scrap metal, is liable to a fine not less than Kshs5 million or imprisonment of not less than ten years or both. The Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act No.8 of 1999 provides stiff penalties for various offences involving scrap metal. Section 87(5) of The Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act provides for a jail term of not more than two years or a fine not exceeding Kshs2 million, or both for dangerous handling and disposal of wastes without a licence. Section 91(6) of the same Act provides for a jail term of not less than two years or a fine of not less than Kshs1 million for contravening the provisions of that section. Further, Section 106(1) provides for a jail term of not less than two years or a fine of not less than Kshs500,000, for offences relating to ionizing. (c) The National Environment Management Act is vested in the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) and not the Kenya Police. After the amendment of the Scrap Metal Act, which in essence removed all powers of licensing, inspection and investment from the police and vested the same in NEMA under the National Environmental Management Act, the Act did not even state whether offences under the Act are cognizable by the police or not. In the circumstances, such measures can only be developed by the said organization. The role of the police in this matter is only reactionary. For short term measures, one NEMA will endavour to regulate through licensing all transporters, yards and recycling facilities on conditions, which include recycling that does not handle vandalized products. Secondly, NEMA will intensify inspections of the facilities to ensure compliance with condition of not handling vandalized products, among others. They will also include the condition that recyclers should not receive the suspected materials until certification by a form or letter is attached as to the source of the scrap metal. They will also co-operate with the police and other enforcement agencies in ensuring that all facilities are licensed, and that they comply with the licence conditions. They will also arrest and prosecute the perpetrators. The medium-term measures proposed include requirement of all scrap metal dealers, yards and transporters to have certificates of good conduct before licence renewal or issue of new licence. Two, there will be review of the National Environment
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me, first of all, to thank the Minister for a very comprehensive answer. The proposals he has given are really valid. But I wish he would comment on the following. Given that NEMA, which has been given authority by the Scrap Metal Act to enforce it has no police, how can it enforce the measures against the vandalism of transformers, scrap metal, mabatis and road infrastructure? It does not have the capacity! It is only the Minister who has the capacity to arrest these criminals.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much. NEMA, like any other citizen, can complain to the police and the police are bound by the complaint to take the necessary action. Therefore, I advise those who are aggrieved, particularly NEMA, to co- operate with the police by reporting any culprit who breaks the law of the country and they will be dealt with.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whoever listened to the Minister carefully must have heard that the jail terms and the fines given by different orders vary from Kshs500,000 to Kshs1 million. Again, we have had occasions in this House when the Minister in charge of roads complained that road furniture and other instruments have been destroyed by those who collect scrap metal. The Minister has also said that NEMA is in charge. Why has the Government not taken time to synchronize, or harmonize these orders and the laws because vandalism of transformers is countrywide? Could the Minister give a commitment that the Government is going to look into this seriously?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think in my last statement I mentioned that there is need to review the National Environment Management Act, 1999. When it is reviewed, maybe that will give us the way forward in co-ordinating the activities of NEMA and the police, so that it will be easy to take the necessary action. I can understand the concerns of hon. Members; the increasing trend of crime under the Act may be due to weak enforcement legal structure. I said the legal structure is there and provides for up to a fine of Kshs5 million; therefore, we will emphasize the need to relook at the 1999 Act.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this problem is not only in Emuhaya Constituency; it is found in many parts of the country. I would like to request the Minister to think of how they can liaise with other Ministries. In my constituency, I know some areas where many women cannot leave their house utensils in their kitchen. They are forced to take them to their bedrooms because they will be stolen by the scrap metal dealers. I would like the Ministry to team up with the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, so that they can introduce stiff penalties. They should also see whether they can impose a ban on collection of scrap metal in this Republic.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, I think NEMA is under the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources; I am sure that from the answers that I have given, there will be need to look into the Act. Therefore, we are going to communicate to the Ministry concerned, so that there will be a co-ordination between the police and NEMA as the enforcement agency.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as much as I agree with the Minister on the answer he had given and his position that there is need to review NEMA Act, 1999, I wish he could state categorically what he is going to do in the meanwhile to ensure that vandalism of metal and transformers is checked, particularly at the local level. He has
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to some extent the hon. Member is right. I will direct the Provincial Administration and the police to be on the lookout and bring to justice anybody found vandalizing those things.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform the Minister---
Order! We will have to find out if the Minister wishes to be informed. Mr. Minister, do you want to be informed by Mr. Rege.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not have any objection to it because it is an engineer giving me the information.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to inform the Minister that the amendment Bill touching on vandalism and scrap metal is coming up for the Third Reading this time. If they do not mind, they can come up with any amendments to that Bill and this will help.
asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) whether he is aware that Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital has no ambulance or a stand-by generator; and, (b) what steps he is taking to ensure that the hospital is provided with the important facilities?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital has no ambulance or a stand-by generator. This is a consequence of the budgetary constraints that the Ministry has been facing. (b) Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital is on the profile of hospitals without ambulances and generators awaiting consideration when funds become available.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the good Assistant Minister for that open answer, Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital is so removed from major hospitals, including Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital, and is served by so many health facilities and dispensaries. The Assistant Minister has indicated that action will be taken when funds become available. Could he consider the suffering of the people of Nandi North District, where there is no single ambulance, at least, for one to be provided in this financial year?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did a proposal and it was rejected by the Ministry of Finance, for Kshs21 billion. We asked for Kshs350 million, but we were only given Kshs30 million. This can only buy ten ambulances. Considering the suffering and the pain the people of Mosop are going through, I will revisit this issue with my officers to see if among the ten ambulances, we can give one to them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that the House has agreed that we can do public/private partnership, is the Assistant Minister considering allowing the Government to lease ambulances instead of outright purchases to minimize the sufferings of Kenyans?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, we have the public/private partnership financing arrangement within the Government system although the relevant Bill has not been passed by Parliament. However, an ambulance cannot be leased from other sources. This is because an ambulance is more or less like a hospital. If we lease an ambulance, that means that we will also lease doctors to manage it. It is not the policy of the Ministry to lease ambulances.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House that leasing an ambulance means to hire it from the streets? You can lease equipment, own it for two years and then return it. They do it in the police. All over Europe and America it is done like that. You can also lease an X-Ray equipment and once they have a newer model, you return it. Is he in order?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have considered all those proposals and we found that it is more expensive to lease than to buy an ambulance. So, it is possible to do so in other developing countries, but in Kenya it is not possible because we have only been getting peanuts. So, it is not possible and it is not a policy so far in the Ministry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for confirming that he is going to get ten new ambulances within this financial year. When is he likely to receive the ambulances? Would he consider, because I really believe in him, delivering the ambulance in person?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have clearly said that I am going to revisit this issue and if the people of Mosop have not already been allocated an ambulance; the Member should rest assured that they are going to get one.
asked the Minister for Transport:- (a) whether he could provide a list of road accident related deaths, including pedestrians and boda boda since 2000, indicating the exact roads, dates of accidents and the number injured or maimed each year; and, (b) what the status of compensation of the victims is.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I will be tabling a list of road accidents related deaths, including pedestrians and boda boda since 2000. The list indicates the fatalities, both serious as well as the slight injuries. The Traffic Department within the Kenya Police collects the accidents data manually and keeps and provides data on a number of accidents and victims, but not specific particulars of every accident reported as requested by the Member. In addition, the life span of most of the records regarding the said period namely, 12 years, has expired and it will be difficult for the Traffic Department to trace the particulars of every specific accident case considering the number of accidents that have occurred since 2000.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to be fair to the Minister because 12 years is a very long time and take him through from 3rd March, 2012 which is fairly recently. I want to inform him that ten people died at Sirisia in Bungoma on 9th March and a disabled woman was ran over by a train at Pipeline, Nairobi. On 18th March, eight people died in Kisumu along the Homa Bay Road, on 23rd March, six people died along the Nairobi-Nakuru Road at Limuru and on 3rd April, 11 people died in Kinango, Kwale. On 21st April, 13 people died along Nairobi-Nakuru Highway and on 22nd April, one child was killed in Kisumu. On 26th April, two people died and six were injured along the Eldoret-Nakuru Road and on 3rd May, 15 people died along the Kisii-Ogembo Road. On 16th May, 16 people died along the Kenol-Murang’a Road and on 17th May, one person died.
Can you come to the question, hon. Mututho? This is a supplementary question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am being very polite to the Minister because 12 years is a very long time. What has the Ministry done in, at least, the last six months? The issue of compensation and deaths on our roads is hurting families in Kenya.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of motor vehicle accidents and indeed, the wider issue of safety on our roads, is a complex issue. We want to approach it from a multi-facet approach. Before this House are three documents on this subject. There is a Sessional Paper on the Integrated Transport Management awaiting discussion by the House. There is also a National Transport and Safety Authority Bill that has gone through the First Reading and by now, it should be going through the Committee and getting ready to come for Second Reading. We also have a Traffic Act (Amendment) Bill, which describes certain penalties and what we need to do in terms of sanctions for people who do not follow the law. Once the two pieces of legislation plus the Sessional Paper are approved by the House, we shall have provided the right framework for management on safety on our roads. In addition to that, we obviously also have the National Road Safety Council, which is conducting an action plan in terms of curbing the carnage on our roads. It is going to take the collective efforts of not just the drivers, the passengers or the pedestrians, but of each one of us to sort out the issue of accidents on our roads. The numbers are not the best when you look at where we are. With the list that I am going to table, you will see that the numbers are huge, but the good news is that the numbers are declining when you compare that our population and the number of vehicles on our roads are increasing. So, in terms of accidents per vehicle or per population, we are not doing as badly as we did in the past. Things are looking up, but there is still a lot more to be done to totally eliminate fatalities on our roads.
Asante, Bw. Spika. Ninaomba Waziri atufafanulie ni mikakati gani walionayo kuhusu hawa vijana wa boda boda na ajali ambazo zinatokea kila wakati. Ukienda katika hospitali nyingi, utakuta chumba maalum kimewekwa kuwaangalia majeruhi wa boda boda. Wizara inaangalia jambo hili bila kuchukua hatua yoyote.
Bwana Spika, mikakati ambayo tutaweka kwa sababu ya hao vijana wa boda boda ni ile ile ambayo tuliweka kwa wanaoendesha magari. Haya yote
Mr. Speaker, Sir, even as we wait for--- Kama tunavyojua---
Order the Member for Naivasha! That will be out of order. You do not transact business in two languages at the same time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Now that we know that there are several legislative pieces that will be coming through which will be part of the remedy, is the Minister considering as part of the fabric in our super highways to have emergency and trauma centres to minimize deaths, particularly to do with bleeding as patients await specialized treatment or while being airlifted?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, there is an initiative that we are working on with the Ministry of Transport, the Ministry of Roads, the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation, the Ministry of Medical Services, the World Bank and some of the fuel providers especially Total in the creation of accident response centres or trauma centres especially on our Mombasa-Malaba Corridor and, indeed, along the other busy roads so that we can save the patients who are involved in accidents before the matter deteriorates. So, that is already at hand and I hope that hon. Members will also support those initiatives in their various areas by raising awareness on what to do when an accident happens.
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) under what circumstances Mr. Bernard Muoki Makau, who has been in possession of plot No.364 of phase 1 Ndalani for 37 years, was evicted from the plot and subsequently arrested; and, (b) what steps he will take to ensure that he regains the property.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Mr. Benard Muoki Makau has been in possession of parcel No.364 of Phase 1 Ndalani for the last 38 years according to the ground visit made by the District Settlement Officer on 4th February, 2011. (b) However, the ministerial probe committee that was appointed to carry out detailed investigations on the squatter issues affecting the seven schemes in Yatta District in Machakos County in July, 1988 did not find Mr. Benard Muoki Makau on the plot. Instead, Macharia Ben Kabui was found in possession of the plot. Our register indicates that Macharia Ben Kabui is the legal registered owner of the plot. Under the circumstances of part “a”, no steps will be taken against Benard Muoki Makau for retaining the land because he was not in the occupation at the time when the ministerial probe committee visited the said plot.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am at a loss because the answer from the first paragraph is very clear. The Assistant Minister actually confirms that Mr. Benard Muoki
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that we did investigations and that is why we found out that Makau has been on site for the last 37 years. But the truth of the matter and the report is very clear, is that this has been out of court orders. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, I will read the report because it is very brief.
Read the relevant part!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Question prompted this office to visit the above plot on 4th February, 2011 and filed the following report:- “The plot is developed by way of farming, terrace and planted with maize and beans which are drying out due to the current drought. It is evident that the plot has been in occupation until very recently as there are demolitions of houses. For example, there are sand, bricks and iron sheets. There was no one on the ground but the area Assistant Chief gave us the following information: That one, Mr. Benard Muoki Makau who is now above 70 years old has been living on this plot and farming since the early 1970s but it is not clear why his details were not captured during the verification exercise by the ministerial probe committee. Mr. Muoki’s wife passed on in the early 1980s and her grave is on the plot leaving behind Muoki and their son who is about 40 years old, a casual labourer. This son is now married with five children and they have been residing on this plot. Muoki built some three temporary houses made of sand bricks and corrugated iron sheets. His son had built two houses of the same. Sometimes in December, 2010, Mr. Muoki, his son and family were evicted from this plot by the policemen from Yatta Police Station through a court order. Since then, Mr. Muoki has been staying with a friend within the location while his son rented a room at Sofia Market where he is staying with his family.”
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is very surprising that the Assistant Minister confirms that Mr. Muoki has lived on the land for over 37 years and all of a sudden there was a change of position. That makes me wonder whether this is a case of Government officers giving the Assistant Minister wrong answer or whether it is a question of the rich frustrating the poor by using judicial process.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you know that my Ministry obeys the law. If by whatever means somebody uses the courts to get orders and land is registered, our hands are tied.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter of land in Ndalani and Nzukini involves 450 families, majority of them very poor. What absentee landlords are doing is to use the courts. They go to court, get court orders and the poor people are evicted. If this is a Government which minds about the welfare of the people, they should not issue titles or they should even cancel titles of the parcels of land that have been occupied by people for over 40 years. The Assistant Minister is in agreement that this should not have been done. The first time that this Question appeared in this House, he actually said that
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that if the rich run to the courts and they win the case, and given the fact that there is separation of powers, we are bound to obey the decision of the court as a Ministry.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wonder whether there are two Ministries called the “Ministry of Lands.” Is it in order for the Assistant Minister today to claim that his hands are tied and yet on 22nd February, 2011, while answering the same Question, this is what the Minister said:- “Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had actually spoken to him and informed him that we are actually looking into this issue and raised other issues which are still hostile and hot. I can assure the hon. Member that once that report is actually before me, Mr. Makau will be settled because he actually should not have been displaced from this particular land.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a very affirmative statement from the Ministry that they were going to settle Mr. Makau. So, is it in order for the Assistant Minister today to claim to the House again that his Ministry cannot do anything about this innocent Kenyan and yet he had already assured this House that he would settle Mr. Makau?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, at that time my colleague was right because we were not aware of the court orders. But now that we are aware, I am sure you will agree with me that our hands are tied unless there are other ways we can use as a House.
Hon. Members, the Question by the Member for Bura is deferred generally, because the Member for Bura is absorbed in the security situation that is there, including his constituency. So, until such a time that we are on notice that he is able to come back to this place, this Question will stand deferred.
asked the Minster of State for Public Service:-
Indeed, the Member for Isiolo South you, would not have an answer. The first time you asked Question No.1716, it was directed to the Ministry of Finance. But the Ministry of Finance wrote and asked that this Question be re-directed to the Cabinet Office. The Cabinet Office in turn wrote and said that the Question belongs to the Ministry of State for Public Service. The Question was then directed to the Minstry of State for Public Service. The Ministry of State for Public Service has come with a letter saying that it should be directed to the Ministry of Finance. So, you can see that merry go-round. I think I want to ask the Leader of Government Business to determine which department should deal with this matter. So, Mr. Kimunya, we will pass these three letters to you and by the time we come to the end of Question Time, you should give the necessary guidance to the House as to where this Question will be directed. So, the Member for Isiolo South, in the meantime, you will wait until we have such directions before the end of Order No.6.
Hon. Members, Question No.1641 is deferred generally until the hon. Member is available. I am advised that Mr. Kiptanui is in circumstances that do not permit him to be before the House. I am not satisfied with that information and so, I will defer the Question generally. It will not appear on the Order Paper until I have an explanation from the hon. Member. So, the Clerks-at-the-Table please note that this Question will not come again on the Order Paper because the explanation I have been given is not satisfactory.
Yes, the Member for North Horr!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, the Member for Karachuonyo! Of course, I can see you from where I am. Yes, the Member for North Horr.
asked the Minister for Finance:- (a) what has been the increase in the revenue allocation to the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security for the purpose of operationalizing the new administrative units created by the President in the last four years; and, (b) what plans the Ministry has to ensure that adequate funds are provided for hiring of the necessary staff, building and equipping and furnishing of the new administrative offices and acquire vehicles to support the newly created administrative units.
Mr. Chachu, we have valid information which got to Parliament this morning that the Minister for Finance as well as the Assistant Minister are out of the country on official duty which I understand came abruptly. So, they cannot be here to answer this Question. So, under those circumstances, I will defer your Question to Wednesday, next week in the morning.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Members, we will then go back to Question No.2 by Private Notice. We want the Member for Migori to ask the Question. BAN ON HOLIDAY TUITION IN SCHOOLS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minsiter for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) What urgent measures has the Minister put in place to ensure that schools experiencing acute staff shortages complete the syllabus before end of year national examinations in view of the fact that the Ministry has banned holiday tuition in schools? (b) Could the Minister clarify whether he sought the concurrence of the key education stakeholders and Parliament before implementing the decision to ban holiday tuition in all schools in the country?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You forgot the last Question on the Order Paper; that is Question No.1522.
Indeed, I overlooked Question No.1522 by ommission but we will come back to it. Proceed, Mr. Minister!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Ministry of Education through the Directorate of Quality Assurance Standards in conjunction with the Kenya Institute of Education develops the curriculum which is then broken down into syllabus for different subjects. Within these subjects, the materials are broken down into topics, sub-topics and lessons. The allocation of time for each subject depends on weight assigned on each one of them by the experts. All these are covered within the academic year, term date of 38 weeks. In developing the 2012 term dates for schools and colleges, the Ministry held, as is normal, consultative meetings with stakeholders and on the basis of these
Order, Minister! There is something you have done while the Member for Imenti Central kept me engaged. You were tabling a Report of a Committee, which, in fact, was tabled in the House, and which the House adopted. So, there is no need to re-table it. You will just refer the House to a particular part that you think is most relevant.
That is confirmation. I have referred to the relevant pages of that report and I will retrieve the document because it speaks for itself. Luckily, I have worked very well with this Committee and even Mr. Pesa has chaired it sometimes. That report is of 2008 and I am implementing it, unlike my predecessors who will not be named. I am going to implement that policy. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to table this because it is not in possession of the House. It is a circular of 10th January, 2012, before I went to the Ministry, reviewing 2012 term dates for schools and colleges. I am happy to say that it speaks for itself. It says in paragraph 5.0 page 2:- “The week beginning 5th November will be dedicated to examinations. This measure will create enough time for teachers to do remedial work with their students. Subsequently, holiday is hereby banned and District Education Officers (DEOs) are directed to ensure that this is effectively implemented.”
Again, this is straightforward national education policy. The third document that I want to table--- I think it is the second, because I am withdrawing the second one, it is the circular of 18th August, 2008, arising from the Parliamentary Report that I have referred to. The then Permanent Secretary, Prof. Karega Mutahi, issued a circular again to all Provincial Directors of education, to all Directors of City Education, DEOs and heads of schools. It is quite clear; if you allow me, I will read two sentences. It says:- “Professionally, extra-coaching, or tuition, is given to learners who exhibit weaknesses in certain subjects. This is what constitutes remedial teaching and does not involve payment by parents.” I emphasize these words. The professor went on, at page 2, to say:- “No whole class tuition will be allowed to take place in any school.” This is the policy that I am now implementing, and I would like to also table that.
Order, Mr. Minister! Do you realize that you are now on your 15th minute, just giving an answer!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the trouble with this issue is that it has been very much misunderstood, and it is fair that I give this information. This is my final document to present and it is straightforward.
I have given you so much indulgence because I thought it is an important matter, but now you are doing an over kill.
Well, Sir. You know me; I would like to do an efficient job. As I said, in 2001, the Ministry of Education appointed a task force on student discipline and unrest in Kenya. It is dated September 2001. In paragraph xvii, recommendation number one says:- “The Ministry of Education bans holiday weekend and after school tuition for all primary and secondary school students.” I wish to table this. Allow me to table that document, so that it is seen that it is not just an issue for Parliament. I rest my case, wish to submit to this country that I ban holiday tuition and I will continue to do so.
Hon. Member for Migori, that answer was exhaustive; I think we should restrict the number of questions here.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I once more want to thank the Minister; since he came to this Ministry, I must say, and commend him, that he has done a very good job. What I am asking here should not be seen as if I am trying to challenge him.
Ask the first supplementary question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister rightfully says that I am a Member of the Committee on Education, Research and Technology. He says that he is banning
Order, hon. Member for Migori! We cannot go that way. That will keep us for too long. Just come to the question that is relevant to the answers given by the Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister picked on item number eight which recommended that when the above have been done, then tuition in schools should be banned. I am not against banning tuition, but my concern is that which of these other recommendations has the Minister implemented since he took over the Ministry?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister and also congratulate him for the reforms that are taking place now, particularly the workshop they undertook recently in Naivasha. The main problem seems to be the way the information went out. It was like an ambush. I want the Minister to tell the House what he is going to do with the mode of examining. This seems to be the main problem. This is the reason why every child has to get grade A. So, the teachers are under pressure to ensure that it is realized. That is the reason why they go through the backdoor and try to charge children a lot of money. I do not know what the Minister is going to do to make sure that he delivers the information that the long-term programme is going to be implemented by the Government, so that everybody will be comfortable.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am doing more than just banning holiday tuition. I have already completed a new Sessional Paper for this country on education, because the one existing is of 2005, and created the windows for extra tuition and a lot of other hanky punky that I have found. So, I will be tabling in this House for debate, the new Sessional Paper that the Cabinet has already approved. I am waiting for the Attorney-General to release it for publication. In this Sessional Paper, we are addressing all those issues, including this preoccupation with grades As and Bs. In fact, I will be going further and telling this country---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to inform the House that he has banned holiday tuition when he has left loose all the private schools? We have not heard him addressing that issue. Private schools will take advantage and yet we know there is no quota system of admitting students even in the universities.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the holiday ban applies to all schools, private or public. Article 53 which create the right of a child to free and compulsory basic education does not recognize private or public pupils or children, for that matter. So, the ban is across the board. In fact, those private schools that we have engaged during the first week have already sent apologies to me; Kilimani Junior School is one of them, and they have released the children. When we are protecting the rights of the Kenyan child, we will not accept categorization of schools. They must all be treated alike during holidays.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Minister needs to be commended because wherever he goes to a Ministry, we see differences. Mr. Speaker, Sir, given that he has already undertaken various reforms which require supervision from his education officers, what has he done to ensure that these officers are given capacity in terms of transport to enable them supervise and inspect these schools? The other day, he took disciplinary action against the County Education Director, Homa Bay, who comes from my constituency. She is a widow and very hardworking officer. He has assured me that he will look into that matter again next week. She has no vehicle to inspect the entire county. That is why, probably, whatever happened at Asumbi happened. Otherwise, she would have done the right job the way it was required. So, what is he doing to ensure that they have enough capacity in terms of vehicles to move around, otherwise, they would not be able to police or inspect many schools in that county?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is such a fundamental question. I am glad it is coming from my good hon. Member, who is also a finance specialist. I did make recommendations to his Committee for sufficient funding for motor vehicles because I would like to supply transportation facilities to all county directors of education as well as district education officers. As soon as I get this funding, I am working very hard on it to convince hon. Githae, during the Supplementary Estimates, I will give them these facilities. I am also seeking to ask the Kenya Rural Electrification Board to supply electricity to all district education heads, so that we can get this information on the spot. The problem in Asumbi was not just transport--- I continued to check with all county directors and I asked them: “Was there holiday tuition in your county?” and we were assured there was none. I recalled this lady back to the head office, so that we could allow investigations on the ground and also hear her case of the matter but she cannot remain in Homa Bay. I will post somebody else there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
There is a lot of interest in this, but I am afraid we have to cut it short. You can look at the clock and see where we are.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am glad the Minister has answered one of the questions which I wanted to ask. Surely, he has done a good job, but he must also accept certain facts that go on in the country. We have schools in this country with only two teachers. Imagine a school from Form One to Form Four with only two teachers. There is a shortage of teachers. He should tell this House that he will use his energy to ensure that the Government allocates enough money to his Ministry to employ more teachers before the exams are done.
Order! Hon. Member for Migori, I do not see your question in all that, but all the same, I will allow the Minister to make whatever response he can.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is such a fundamental thing for the country and although you think there was no question, it is important that I tell you without fear that this country needs an additional 80,000 teachers. We only need to take the population of the children in school of 14.5 million and divide it by 40, and you will begin to realize that we face an enormous challenge. Right now, we are recruiting 11,000 teachers. I want to congratulate all the hon. Members in this House because we recommended that they be present during recruitment. There are a few complaints like in Bungoma District, but I will sort them out. I will continue fighting so that the rights of the child to free and compulsory basic education is not contaminated by the absence of teachers. That I will do. When the opportunity occurs during Supplementary Estimates or should the Government decide to come back here for further funding, please, support it because this is for the future of our children. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! We have the last Question, but we do not have the time to take it because it is about food. You will notice we have taken almost a half an hour on a single Question. Maybe we will devise ways of dealing with such matters in future differently. So, hon. Member for Wajir South, I will want to defer your Question to Tuesday, next week, subject to what the Minister says because we just do not have the time to go into it. Minister of State for Special Programs, hon. Murugi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a one-sentence response. So, I think you can give me the indulgence to do so.
Just one sentence?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
I am not so certain whether the hon. Member for Wajir South will be satisfied, but let us try. Hon. Member for Wajir South, you may proceed!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
asked the Minister of State for Special Programmes why food that had expired or was about to expire was distributed to the people during the drought season and who or which organizations were responsible for the food distribution.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Minister for her short answer, I would like to tell her that the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives is investigating this matter and I find her lack of willingness and sensitivity to this matter--- But it is in public knowledge that early this year, there were these cases in Eastern Province, North Eastern Province, Turkana and at the Coast Province as well. Documentary evidence has been tabled to the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. So, is she in order to mislead the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, like I said, I am not aware and I know that the food that the Kenya Red Cross had distributed and had expired, they actually destroyed it. So, it actually did not reach the beneficiaries.
Order! Hon. Member for Central Imenti, if you press the intervention button, I see that immediately. As a matter of fact, I was going to pick you. So, we have moved away from that way of doing business. But now you have caught my eye. What is it?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Minister not to disclose that the matter is actually being investigated by the Committee of Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives?
Minister, are you aware that there is an ongoing investigation into this matter by the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives?
The Assistant Minister for Agriculture tells me that there is a request for that, but I am not aware.
The Assistant Minister has hinted to you that there is investigation going on.
Yes, but I am not aware.
Should the matter not rest there, hon. Sirat, for the time being until such time that the Committee completes its investigation?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know how this Committee got seized of this matter, but I will appreciate if they speed up the investigation.
Yes, hon. Sirat, I direct so by virtue of Standing Order No.78 because it is before the Committee. I will just ask the Committee to expedite its investigation, so that they table the report before the House at the earliest opportunity. Maybe they can do so within the next 21 days from today. So, if they can complete that task within ten days, they may table it by then. So, it is so directed. Hon. Members, that completes Order No.6. Before we move to the next Order, I have a communication that I wish to make.
Hon. Members, you will recall that we held a kamkunji on 28th June, 2012 to review among other issues securities matters and conduct of Members of Parliament, staff and members of the public in the precincts of Parliament. I am happy to report that there has been co-operation with regard to inspection of cars entering parliamentary premises and screening of Members and all other persons accessing Parliament. There is need, however, to have proper control of admission of visitors to any part of Parliament Buildings and gardens and for which I ask all hon. Members to lend the necessary support. I urge all Members of Parliament to observe Speaker’s Rules regulating to admission and conduct of strangers made under powers conferred by the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act. In addition, I wish to reiterate the following salient rules in order to improve security in the precincts of Parliament:- 1. All persons accessing Parliament buildings, including all visitors of Members of Parliament, will continue to be subjected to security screening. Members of the public or visitors once authorized to enter the buildings must wear visitors’ badges all the time. The badges must be surrendered when the holders leave the precincts of Parliament 2. All Members of Parliament will be allowed a maximum of two visitors at a time and for whom they will be responsible over their conduct and movement in the buildings. 3. All vehicles entering Parliament buildings and all occupants in them have to be subjected to security screening. 4. All staff of the Kenya National Assembly and other authorized persons must wear identification badges within the buildings all the time. Pursuant to rule 24 of the Speaker’s Rules, the Serjeant-At-Arms or his assistants are authorized and required to expel from the buildings, gardens and Members’ Car Park any person infringing on the rules and no such expulsion shall be questioned, except by way of reference to the Speaker after compliance therewith. The Serjeant-At-Arms is, therefore, under strict instructions to enforce all the rules without fear or favour and liaise with police in re-enforcing security within and outside Parliament buildings. I thank you. Next Order! Order, Member for Isiolo South! We have moved from Order No.6, but that notwithstanding, your Question is reasonably deferred to two weeks from today so that the Deputy Leader of Government Business sorts out who is going to deal with that matter.
Very well! We want to take the next Order.
Hon. Members, in the area of Statements under Order No.7, we will first take two statements which are urgent. The first is by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. We want him to do so in not more than five minutes. The second one we will be by the Minister for Justice, Constitutional Affairs and National Cohesion. Similarly, Minister, you must do that in at most five minutes, not more. You can see where we are on time. We have done so badly. UNSAVOURY REMARKS ON LATE PRIME MINISTER OF ETHIOPIA BY KENYAN NATIONALS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to deliver an unsolicited Ministerial Statement following the demise of the Prime Minister of Ethiopia His Excellency Atto Meles Zenawi on 21st August, 2012. My Statement also comes in the wake of reports about alleged uncomplimentary remarks about the late Prime Minister attributed to some of our nationals. Members may be aware that His Excellency President Mwai Kibaki issued a message of condolence to the Government and people of Ethiopia on behalf of the Government and the people of Kenya, which I personally delivered to the Acting Prime Minister of Ethiopia, His Excellency Hailemariam Desalegne. I was warmly received in Addis Ababa and assured by the Acting Prime Minister that there will be no change in the friendly relations between our two countries and that his Government will continue to pursue existing policies with us. I wish to point out that under the leadership of Prime Minister Zenawi; Ethiopia has been a very stabilizing influence in the region. Both Kenya and Ethiopia share common history of suffering under the aggressive irredentist ideology that was espoused by Somalia under Siad Barre. A key blank of both Kenya’s and Ethiopia’s foreign policy under successive leaders, from 1960s to the present, has, therefore, been to protect the borders that we inherited at Independence as they were considered sacrosanct.
We were supported in this by the organization of African Unity’s principles and later the African Union. The fall of the Barre regime in Somalia, the collapse of the state system in that country and its reinstatement by various militias led to Kenya and Ethiopia bearing the brunt of the problems which arose from the absence of a government in Somalia. This included attacks and destabilization by extremist militia forces, which both countries have had to counter as effectively as they could. Ethiopia under Prime Minister Zenawi was involved in the peace process aimed at restoring stability and proper governance in Somalia. Their intervention in that country in
Order, Minister! There is a point of order from hon. Mbadi! What is it?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You did make an indication that, really, we did not have time and I believe that Parliament’s time need to be used effectively. I have been listening to the Minister and do not understand why the Statement is called for. Heads of State have been dying in this continent and we have never heard anything. If there is a specific reason---
Order! Order! You are now taking the Minister’s time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he should tell us why this Statement is necessary. If there are Kenyans who made unnecessary remarks, he should tell us rather than making it general.
Thank you for your protection, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is clear that the strong foundation laid by the late Prime Minister will remain a critical force in sustaining the continued growth of Ethiopia in the political, social and economic spheres. I wish to give the assurance, in my capacity as the Minister for Foreign Affairs, that unfriendly remarks made by any of our nationals regarding the late Ethiopian Prime Minister do not in any way represent the position of the Government of Kenya. We will continue to hold the Government and people of Ethiopia and the late Prime Minister, Meles Zenawi, in high esteem. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the eighth year transitional period in Somalia comes to an end, we also recognize the very positive role that the late Prime Minister Zenawi played in stabilizing Somalia. In that regard, I reiterate His Excellency President Kibaki’s call for a peaceful and transparent conclusion to the transition process
Order, Minister! There is a point of order from hon. Shebesh.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Statement does not seem to say who made disparaging remarks. This is the Floor of the National Assembly; this is a House that is taken seriously on national television. The Minister cannot be making a Statement on hearsay. He is not telling us who made these remarks, what they were and how they affect the Government. Honestly, we cannot be coming to do public relations for one side of the Government against the other.
Order! Hon. Shebesh, I do not think that the Minister mentioned any Member of Parliament. Minister, let me hear what you have to say with regard to what hon. Shebesh has said.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rose to make these comments because as the Minister for Foreign Affairs, we have had a complaint from Ethiopia about unsavory comments being made about their country. I want to take the Floor of this House to reassure the Ethiopian Government that Kenyans are free to make their comments, but that does not represent the Government position. I think that is the basis upon which this Statement is being made---
Very well! I think that is sufficient clarification.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I conclude my remarks by assuring the people of Somalia that Kenya looks forward to working with the new Parliament of Somalia as well as whoever will be elected as President.
Order, Minister! Are you referring to Somalia or Ethiopia? In your Statement, you have read “Somalia” instead of “Ethiopia.”
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you listened to me carefully, I did mention the role that the late Prime Minister Zenawi played in Somalia. As a continuation of that---
Okay. Conclude then!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I conclude my remarks by assuring the people of Somalia that Kenya looks forward to working with the new Parliament of Somalia as well as whoever will be elected as President. We have no preference for any of the candidates and it is up to the people of Somalia, through their new Parliament, to elect their leadership. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall that on 28th August, 2012, hon. John Mbadi, Member for Gwasi, rose on a point of order to seek a Ministerial Statement from my Ministry on the tabling of the Draft Election Rules and Regulations to Parliament. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, specifically, the hon. Member sought the following clarifications:- (a) when the Draft Election Regulations 2012, will be tabled in the House as stipulated by the law now that contents of the said regulations are already in public domain and causing anxiety and jitteriness to Kenyans who want to contest the next general elections; (b) whether I am aware that Section---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Will I be right to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to hold on because we have a number of clarifications to seek after he has made the Statement?
Order, hon. Keynan! You were present in the House when the Chair indicated that because of the nature of the business that the hon. Members want to transact this afternoon, he was allowing two Ministerial Statements. If you did wish to ask questions on that Statement, I did not see you rise.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been on this for the last ten minutes. This is a critical national issue.
Order! Order! Minister, continue!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Hon. Mbadi asked: (b)) whether I am aware that Section 109(3) of the Election Act, which stipulate that the power of the Independent Elections and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to make electoral regulations should only be exercised after a draft of the proposed regulations have been tabled and approved by the National Assembly, at least, six months preceding a general election. These six months expire on 4th September, 2012 and also to provide a roadmap toward realizing the rules and regulations; and, (c) the reasons behind the delay in the tabling of the Draft Regulations as envisaged in Section 109(3) of the Elections Act. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was given five minutes to do this. On the first part of the question, I wish to say “yes,” the Draft Election Regulations are ready.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, I am aware that the time for approval expires on 4th September, 2012, which will be next Tuesday. I will urge the
Hon. Minister, you are now anticipating debate on the Rules.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is what we have placed before the House and are asking that the House do consider them and take the necessary action within the stipulated time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do table this.
Ms. Amina Abdalla, I am aware that this morning you had a Committee meeting on this issue. What do you have to say?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will put that blame squarely where it belongs. The Committee on Delegated Legislation had written to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) on 14th May regarding the timelines for these regulations. Now that these regulations have been tabled, it means that we must do a report before Tuesday next week, and the House will have to allocate time for its discussion, noting that they had all the time. So, even if we are to be given the regulations now, we will have a meeting tomorrow and Monday to come up with the report and the Leader of Government Business must provide us with time on the Order Paper, otherwise the six-month deadline, which is on 4th September will have been passed. So that we are able to put the blame where it belongs, I would like to table the letters the Committee, through the Clerk, wrote to the IEBC, and so that it can be seen that it is not this House that is sleeping on the job, but it is the Executive and the IEBC that have been sleeping on this job.
Table the letters and I will take four clarifications on that, if there are any that are sought.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Act says the power to make regulations shall be exercised only after a draft of the proposed regulations has been approved by the National Assembly, at least six months preceding a general election. Even though the Minister is calculating his six months to elections to end on 4th, I would like to tell him that, to me, the date is 3rd September. Because elections will be on 4th, the last date to the end of the six preceding months is 3rd which is a Monday. So already we are violating the provisions of this Act. The Minister was very much aware---
Order! You are seeking a clarification; we are not debating the rules.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it says that the regulations should be tabled in this House six months to the elections. The reasons why I raise these matters are as follows: These regulations were ready way back. Why did the IEBC refuse to submit these rules and regulations to his office to table them in Parliament? Was it because they did not want this Parliament to scrutinize these regulations? Now that this House is not likely to meet this statutory requirement, what are they going to do to ensure that these regulations, even when we approve them, will not be challenged as being illegal, because we will approve them after the expiry of the time prescribed?
Order! It is a clarification that you are seeking and you have done very well on that. Is there any other clarification being sought?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know in the past we have been subjected, as a House, to be being ambushed by the Executive, whereupon we end up not doing as thorough a job as this House needs to do. So, I would like the Minister to confirm to the House, and the country, that the delay in laying these rules and regulations--- They are going to set the exact timetable which the IEBC is supposed to follow. We know that the delay is not part of a conspiracy, or a scheme, to ensure eventually elections in this country are not held on 4th March, 2013.
You have done well.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to seek a clarification on the Statement by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and he is not in. Can I go ahead because his assistant is here?
No! Directions were given by the Speaker on that. It was unsolicited request and any Minister can do that. It is the discretion of the Speaker as---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I give an unsolicited statement on the same?
Order! You are out of order. Are there any other clarifications being sought on the rules?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the clarification I seek from the Minister following on what Mr. Mbadi said, it is clear we will not be able to approve these regulations six months before the elections as required in law. Could the Minister
Mr. Minister, it has been brought to my attention that these regulations are not signed. They do not bear any signature. So, if you are taking the responsibility, you need to sign them.
It’s a conspiracy!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a draft. The law requires us to table the draft. Once it is approved, then it will now---
Order! Any document that is tabled, whether in a draft form or not, must be signed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will take responsibility for that.
Then indicate that. Approach the Clerks-at-the Table and sign them.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, okay; we will take responsibility for that.
So, can you respond to the clarifications that have been sought?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I will start with the one by Mr. Mbadi. We want to assure him that we are within time and the elections will be on 4th March, 2013. That date will not be changed. It has been upheld by the High Court as well as the Court of Appeal. When counting the time, we know that it includes the parliamentary day, and the next one is Tuesday. So it is inclusive and we are on track; Mr. Mbadi should not worry about that. As to whether there was a conspiracy or not, I want to assure you that the IEBC is one institution that has been given great responsibilities by this country under Article 88. There are so many things that the IEBC is trying to juggle with like procurement, getting of the equipment and so on, half the time they have been before Parliament. We have also the issue of the coming by-elections; there are a lot of things they are trying to do to also make provision for the Diaspora. They have been communicating with the Diaspora and going around. It is not a conspiracy. We believe that these regulations had to go through the necessary stages; that is, from the IEBC to the Constitution Implementation Commission (CIC). You know very well that we had our hands full in preparing for the constitutional Bills that were before this House. So it is just that we had our hands full. It is not a conspiracy. We are within time and the rules have been well prepared and they should meet the satisfaction of this House. Ultimately, the responsibility is with this House to approve them. They are just draft proposals for your consideration. If you approve them by Tuesday, we will get them back and publish them. Eng. Gumbo, we want to assure you that the election date remains 4th March, 2013. There will be no conspiracy to change that date and these regulations will be in place.
Mr. Minister, these are the directions of the Chair bearing in mind that the regulations are very explicit as to time limits; I direct that the Committee that adjourned its sitting this morning continues with their meeting tomorrow, complete their report and the Leader of Government Business assures the House that this matter will be on the Order Paper on Tuesday in order to beat the constitutional deadlines regarding the approval of these rules. Could you give that indication, so that the Chair does not have to order that it be on the Order Paper? Leader of Government Business, can you assure the House that this matter will be on the Order Paper for Tuesday next week?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, indeed, I was to cover that in my statement that is coming shortly.
Very well. Ms. Amina Abdalla and your Committee, therefore, the meeting that you adjourned this morning should continue tomorrow, complete your report within time to enable the debate and approval, or otherwise, of these rules on Tuesday next week.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in our Constitution, public participation is critical and is provided for. We are getting these rules now and you are directing the Committee to sit tomorrow and present the report on Tuesday next week. When is the public going to play its role? When will public participation take place? Could you provide some guidance?
We are only taking note of the law as it is. These are issues any Member could have raised long before. These rules are known by every Member of Parliament. So, you could have raised these issues any time. As it is now, we have only this weekend and the purpose of hearings by the Committee is to enable public participation. Unfortunately, as the situation is, we have to abide by the rules and get these rules before the House before the expiry of six months, which is Tuesday next week.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had requested for a Ministerial Statement.
I will get to requests because they are a number of them. Continue, Mr. Kimunya. BUSINESS FOR WEEK COMMENCING 4TH TO 6TH SEPTEMBER, 2012
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to make the following Statement with regard to business for next week. Next week, the House will consider debate on the Sugar (Amendment) Bill, Bill No.62 of 2011, that is currently awaiting the Second Reading. Also expected is the Committee of the whole House on the following Bills:- The Finance Bill, Bill No.26 of 2012 and the Ratification of Treaties Bill, Bill No.28 of 2011. In addition, the House will consider the following Motions:- (i) The Motion to adopt the Report on the Agreements Between Kenya and the International Partners in Combating Piracy on the Indian Ocean, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010.
While you are at it, take these requests from hon. Kabogo and hon. Chanzu. Is there any other request? Hon. Kabogo, make the request. Deputy Leader of Government Business, please, note, so that you can respond.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. This concerns the mysterious circumstances under which Messrs Pius Kimani Karumba, Gatundu Umoja SACCO Manager and Kamau Waithaka, a driver in the same SACCO, disappeared from last week. This was on Wednesday, 22nd August, 2012, just a few days after the Chairman of the Gatundu SACCO was killed under mysterious circumstances. Bearing in mind that the Minister himself came to the House and issued a Statement that security would be beefed up in Gatundu, in his Statement, he should tell us what he has done---
Minister, you are here? Mr. Kabogo, the request is explicit.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his Statement---
Order, Mr. Kabogo!
I have not finished, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Kabogo! Your request is explicit enough. The Minister will indicate what---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have an approved Statement.
Order, Mr. Kabogo, Mr. Kabogo! Order! You have an approval to rise---
To read it all, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Not to read. Order, Mr. Kabogo! Please, do not---
Since you already know, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you may ask for me!
Order! You are out of order. Minister, you may not respond. Who is the next one? He is totally out of order. The next one! PROCEDURE FOR ACHIEVING TWO-THIRDS RULE IN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND SENATE
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is to seek direction from the Chair. In answering a Question regarding the two thirds principle yesterday, the Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs told the House that the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2011, that is before the House is the document that will be used when debating the two-thirds principle, yet we are aware that that Bill incorporated two amendments, one of which has already been overtaken by events regarding the elections date. Knowing that the tradition of this House is that we do not amend constitutional (Amendment) Bills, what procedure will the House use in dealing with the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2011, to remove the election date? Should we be allowed to amend, what would be the procedure if an individual wishes to amend the component that is relating to the two-thirds principle? I wish to seek your direction on that.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was a similar Question by hon. Otichilo and it will be answered next Tuesday. So, we can combine the two. STATE OF AIRPORTS AND AIRSTRIPS
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I sought a Statement from the Minister for Transport on 8th August, 2012 about the state of airports and airstrips. We have asked several times about this. Last week, the Minister promised to give the Statement today and the Speaker directed so.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are having a backlog of Statements because of time availability. I request to be allowed to issue this Statement next week.
Next week when?
Tuesday or Wednesday depending on how many we have.
In the morning session on Wednesday next week because a number of them are coming on Tuesday.
That is fine, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. PLANNED TEACHERS’ STRIKE ON 3RD SEPTEMBER, 2012
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Education on the planned teachers’
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will communicate to the Minister who has left Parliament buildings so that he can prepare a Statement. I believe Thursday next week might be the earliest he will get on the queue.
Is Thursday next week all right, hon. Gitari?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it might be overtaken by events because the strike is planned for Monday. MEASURES TO AVERT IMMINENT DOCTORS’ STRIKE
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, the Assistant Minister for Medical Services issued a Statement on the strike by medical doctors and I was held back and told that I would interrogate the Statement today. He is around, but I do not know what the Chair will have to say, because I am ready and willing to interrogate it.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I never thought that the matter was complicated. I will ask for more time.
How much time?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, two weeks is enough for me.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether it is lost on the Assistant Minister that his doctors are not treating Kenyans. They are on strike and he is asking for two weeks for Kenyans to continue dying. All we know is that if one of his children or his wife falls sick, he/she may be treated in South Africa or in London. We are talking about doctors who are treating Kenyans now and they are not working.
Mr. Assistant Minister, can you give it in a week’s time?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue involves the Ministry of Finance and my Ministry. The saddest thing is that the two officers were interdicted because of the same. I have instructed my officers to recall them so that we can deal with the issue accordingly.
When will you address this issue then?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the two officers have already been recalled and they will be in their offices most probably by Thursday. So, I need another week.
Dr. Khalwale, that will be issued on Thursday, next week.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no way that I can push the Assistant Minister. But if he could, please, as he comes on Thursday, he should come with a list showing how the Kshs200 million that was released by the Treasury to him to pay these doctors--- He should show us the doctors who were paid because the doctors who were supposed to have been paid are the ones who have gone on strike and they are saying that they have not been paid.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the HANSARD will bear me out. Yesterday, the Minister for Medical Services, while seated here issued this Statement. The only thing that the Speaker directed is for us to do interrogations to the Statement that he gave to the House and to the nation. So, I am wondering why the Assistant Minister is misleading the Chair by saying that he needs more time. Yesterday, the Speaker gave him the leeway and he made a Statement to the House pertaining to the doctors’ strike.
I understand you but the hon. Member who has misled the Chair is Dr. Khalwale because he did not indicate that to us. Mr. Assistant Minister, the issue can be interrogated on Thursday. If what, indeed, hon. Duale is saying is the correct position.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, I want to confirm that what hon. Duale is saying is the correct position. However, of more importance is that while the doctors are on strike, the Assistant Minister brings another complication. That is a ploy to defer the Statement further. Could he tell us what is so complicated that he cannot be interrogated today and in the event that, indeed---
Order, hon. K. Kilonzo! Hon. Khalwale agreed that this can be interrogated on Thursday. Please, hold your horses. That will be on Thursday, next week.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I agree with what you are saying, I want the Assistant Minister to confirm to this House that the complication he is talking about is one that he will resolve on Thursday and if not, we refer this to the Prime Minister so that he comes and manages it because it is cross- cutting.
Order! That can be determined on Thursday after the interrogation of the Statement.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. My point of order is on procedure. The rules are simple on how one is supposed to make a request for a Ministerial Statement. I did request mine and you shut me out but you never told me when I should expect the Statement. So, I am asking for your indulgence so that you can tell me when to expect this Statement from the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Kabogo. You have come the right way; I indulged you because your Statement was due yesterday. The approval was for 29th August. I indicated to you that I would allow you to raise that issue today. However, rather than raising it, you wanted to argue with the Chair on the same but nevertheless, now that you have---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was not me who postponed it. It was the then Speaker.
Order! You have given me the request. I have looked at it and I have not seen it marked 30th. . If you want to pursue this matter further, I will ask you to table that request as approved by the Chair if you are prepared to take the full consequences of it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be prepared. I am saying---
Please, allow me to speak.
I just want to give you directions that you can---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before you do that, give me a second.
I will allow you time. I am requesting you to make available through the Chair the approval by the Speaker to raise the Ministerial Statement. Before you proceed, further, could you, please, approach the Clerks-at-the-Table and give them the request?
Order, Mr. Kabogo! I have the request that was approved. It has three signatures, one by the Deputy Speaker and the staff, all of them indicating to you that you make the request on 29th August. Nevertheless, you did approach the Chair and I allowed you to summarize the request because you were raising it out of the time approved. Do you still want to pursue the matter further?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to correct that. That is not the correct position. Let me explain. Before I came to you---
Let us get this clear. I am working on a document that bears the signatures---
If you allowed me to speak, you would understand.
I will understand from the documents you have tabled on the Table of the House. Please, do not persist. I am allowing the Minister to indicate when he can give you the Statement. If you will persist on amending the request which is properly signed, then you must be prepared to take the consequences. Very well, the Chair will give a considered ruling on this issue on Tuesday. I have the documents. Next Order!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion.
(Mr. Orengo) seconded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the matter of currency printing contracts between Central Bank of Kenya and De La Rue Company laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 1st August, 2012. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to use this opportunity to thank the entire House for their presence today. I also want to thank the membership of the Public Accounts Committee for collecting, collating and analyzing evidence and finally returuning a unanimous verdict with no dissenting view at all. Allow me to thank the eight witnesses who appeared before the Committee through whom we were able to compile this Report. For the clarity of the House and the nation, the witnesses who appeared before us were as follows:- 1. The then Acting Minister for Finance, hon. Robinson Githae 2. Mr. Joseph Kinyua, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Finance 3. Hon. Amos Kimunya, former Minister for Finance who is currently serving as Minister for Transport 4. Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u, Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya 5. Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, former Deputy and Acting Governor of Central Bank of Kenya 6. Mzee John Machaira Gikonyo, former Legal Advisor and Company Secretary to the Board of Directors, Central Bank of Kenya 7. The Directors of De La Rue Company Management 8. Dr. Andrew Mulei, former Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As much as I do not want to interrupt my good friend, Dr. Khalwale, I want him to be very clear because we are here attentive to prosecute this Report and he has given us information which he has heard from the grapevine. Does the House allow information which has been heard from the grapevine to come here? If it is so, can he then tell us exactly who these people are, who want to reduce this Report to be a contest because we want to deal with substance?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I finish so that you can benefit?
You were raising a point of order. I just want to get what is the point of order that you are raising? What is it?
What I am asking Dr. Khalwale is: Is he in order to start referring us to grapevine stories instead of confining himself to the details in his Report because we are going to prosecute what he will bring on the Floor of the House and we are here to support him?
Order? I have heard you now but you know you are out of order because the Question has not even been proposed and seconded. So, you are out of order!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have organized myself in such a manner; I want to bring to the attention of the House what our recommendations were and then subsequently, justify those recommendations.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Kabando wa Kabando, I see you are on a point of order. You are an Assistant Minister, so use either the Dispatch Box or the Front Row.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just wondering whether it is in order for Dr. Khalwale, given the seriousness of this matter, because it is something that has happened in the past, these references to people’s domestic issues, mentioning families, spouses and their children on a national matter is a little indiscipline--- Is he in order to bring family issues as a justification for his argument?
Mr. Kabando wa Kabando, if you were listening to the ruling I gave with respect to Mr. K. Kilonzo, you are out of order. The Question has not even been proposed. You can raise those issues properly on a point of order after the Question has been proposed and seconded. Continue, Dr. Khalwale!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my bundle of documents within the Report---
There is yet another point of order from Dr. Machage.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the opening remarks of the Chairman, he did refer to hon. Members in this House who are turning this Report into a personality contest. Would I be in order, therefore, to demand that he expounds on that remark or withdraws because it is holding us in bad taste? Substantiate!
Indeed, Dr. Khalwale, you know the rules about casting aspersions on Members without a substantive Motion, you know what the rule is. You are better than all of us in that regard.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that we do not engage in sideshows, I wish to withdraw. If any hon. Members feels offended, our apologies. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the recommendations are as follows: 1. That the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) commences investigations into the conduct of hon. Amos Kimunya with a view of recovering the lost Kshs1,830,909,616 billion. 2. That the same commission to commence investigations into the conduct of the Governor of CBK, Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u over the loss of the same amount of money with a view of making a recovery of the lost funds. 3. That hon. Amos Kimunya and Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u having been responsible for the loss of the said Kshs1.83 billion, acted contrary to the provisions of Cap.6 of the Constitution of Kenya, the Public Officer Ethics Act and the Public Procurement and Disposal Act. In that respect and for this reason, they are not fit to hold public office. 4. That the appointment of Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u as Governor of the CBK should be terminated and towards this end, His Excellency the President should appoint a tribunal pursuant to provisions of Section 14(2)(f)---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chairman to read the recommendations of a Committee he was chairing when it is in the HANSARD that when the Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade previously presented certain recommendations to this House, including one saying that Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u and the Minister were not fit to hold public office, the same gentlemen objected? So, these people were angels then but they have since become devils now that they have---
Order! Order, hon. Shakeel! What point of order are you raising? I have not so far heard a point of order being raised other than interrupting the hon. Member. What is your point of order?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is about the position of the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), hon. Bonny
Order! Order! You are out of order. Seeking clarification at this moment is not in order, because the Mover has not even finished moving, neither has the Question been proposed, as I have said many times. Hon. Members, can you allow hon. Bonny Khalwale to move? I can see that hon. Eseli has a point of order. What is it, Dr. Eseli?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek your guidance, with all due respect to my colleague, hon. Bonny Khalwale, the Chairman of the PAC. The method he is using, of starting with the Recommendations part of the Report, is unprecedented. So, I seek your guidance as to whether it is in order.
Dr. Khalwale did explain why he is going that way. So, procedurally, we cannot stop him. He indicated the reason. What is your point of order, hon. Shabesh?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek clarification as to whether there is conflict of interest between the PAC and the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, given the fact that the two Committees were looking into the same issue. We already have precedence in this House. The issue was being investigated by the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade but the PAC took it up and brought their Report to the House ahead of the other Committee. In the circumstances, what happens to the work of the Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, which is currently looking into the same matter?
Hon. Shabesh, I appreciate your point but that is a matter for the House Business Committee, which approved this Report for debate this afternoon. Hon. Duale, what is your point of order?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need you to give direction. This is a matter of national importance. There are procedures to be followed. In a number of times, you have reminded hon. Members that we will do well for this country if the Chair of the PAC is allowed to move the Motion, have it seconded and the Question proposed, so that we can debate it.
Hon. Mbadi, yours shall be the very last one. Please, it had better be a point of order.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, mine is, really, to plead with the Chair. This is a very important matter. We are interested in listening to the Mover and the seconder of the Motion, so that we can make an informed decision. The recommendations in this Report are weighty. Could you, kindly, allow the Mover to proceed uninterrupted?
Yes, but it is also hon. Members’ right to raise points of order if they do as, indeed, hon. Charles Kilonzo is on a point of order. Yes, hon. Charles Kilonzo.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I concur with your position but I also appeal to hon. Members that we need to get a hearing. The only way we can achieve it is to restrain ourselves from too much interruption. In as much as there are
Hon. Members, you have, indeed, raised all those preliminaries. Hon. Khalwale, please, continue. Let us avoid raising unnecessary points of order to enable him to at least move the Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that indulgence. I truly want to appeal to fellow hon. Members that I started deliberately by giving you the names of the witnesses, so that you can realise that what I am doing this afternoon is merely reported speech. It is not my evidence. I am simply appearing before the House with these facts, so that you can give me an opportunity to persuade you to agree with us on our findings. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I was briefly interrupted, I was going on with the fourth recommendation, which was requesting the President to appoint a tribunal, pursuant to the provisions of Sections 14(2)(f) and 14(3) of the Central Bank of Kenya Act, Cap.491. In the meantime, the Committee requests that Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u must step aside from office with immediate effect. The fifth recommendation is that the Committee concurs with the Cabinet decision for the Government of Kenya to enter into a joint venture with De La Rue company with respect to the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant; but notes several anomalies relating to the Draft Joint Venture Agreement, which I have attached. For that reason, the joint venture should only proceed upon fulfilment of certain conditions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we recommend that the joint venture should not tie the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) to signing a ten year currency printing contract with De La Rue as this contravenes Government procurement procedures and regulations since the CBK cannot be guaranteed a fair market price for currency printing, unless there is a competitive procurement process. We further suggest that the joint venture must address the issue of the capacity of the plant, given that the machines and technology in use at the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant lack the capacity to effectively and efficiently print huge volumes of bank notes with enhanced security features. Besides the attachments we have put in this Report to explain this fact; that is why De La Rue preferred the controversial tender of 1.7 billion pieces of bank notes for the CBK to be printed in Malta, and not in Nairobi, at their Ruaraka plant. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, besides, the Government must also address the complex structure of De La Rue. There is a complex web of companies all claiming to be subsidiaries of De La Rue International Limited, with the Nairobi one changing name from time to time. The Committee has fears, and we beg the House to share those fears with us. Our fears are that the multiple change of name by the Ruaraka company may have been intended by the company to camouflage itself against liabilities in future, should creditors lay claim against the assets of the company to be borne out of the joint venture, thereby putting the Government of Kenya investment and taxpayers’ money at great risk. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also put the condition that the Government should negotiate and enter into a joint venture with De La Rue International Limited in the United Kingdom, with respect to the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant, and not its subsidiaries.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not want to interrupt, but some facts need to be properly put before this House. The Chairman of the Committee was very categorical that hon. Kimunya cancelled the contract yet in the same report, on pages 19 and 20 of the Auditor-General’s Report, it is very clear that the special board of directors approved cancellation and the board cancelled in December. So, is he in order to mislead the House?
Order! Mr. Kimunya! Order!
Order, hon. Members! Hon. Kimunya, you are really not on a point of order. You will have plenty of time to respond to those issues when the question is proposed and seconded. As of now, that is really not a valid point of order because you are contradicting what he says by pointing to another section of the report which you can do when your time comes. Proceed, Dr. Khalwale!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Hon. Kimunya, these are serious matters. I would request him to re-read the letter he wrote. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was talking about the interim orders. Everything was wrong with the interim orders because---
Order! Mr. Abdikadir, are you on a point of order or have you pressed the interjection button by mistake?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had pressed it so that I can contribute to the debate.
You will do that after it has been seconded. Proceed, Dr. Khalwale!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. What is wrong with these interim orders is as follows. Those of you who care to remember, after the NARC victory in 2002, patriotism was flowing in the veins of all Kenyans; small people and big people like Mwiraria. This is why this single sourcing was cancelled. The real benefit of it was that the new contract was cheaper and it was printing better currency. The price differential was that the new contract was one-and-a-half times cheaper than the old contract. So, after hon. Kimunya cancelled the new, better contract, he then ordered, through the letter that I have referred to, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela to commence interim
Order, Dr. Khalwale! There is a point of order from Mr. Elmi Mohammed.
Order, Minister! You are a Minister of Government. You should either use the Dispatch Box or the Front Row. Continue, Dr. Khalwale. When he complies, then I will hear his point of order.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, in her patriotism, defied hon. Kimunya’s directive. I have attached her evidence. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that hon. Members can realize the seriousness of this session, she had to request the Chairman of Public Accounts Committee to request for special security for her to come and give evidence. When she was giving evidence, she gave it in camera. She then defied the Minister. According to her evidence which is annexed, there was a big verbal exchange between them, which is documented.
On a point order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to refer to a letter as cancellation when the letter actually is not about cancellation? Mr. Kimunya raises issues about the cancellation by a Board. So, may he read for the House to fully understand? Let him read the letter.
Minister, it is completely out of order to direct the Member on how to present his case. Hon. Khalwale, please continue.
Hon. Minister, I beg you; just wait, you will contribute. You will have time to read the letter.
Hon. Khalwale, continue.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, because of that patriotism of doing the right thing---, the situation became more and more complex until she lost her job. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, come in Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u as the Governor of the CBK. After he came in, the interim orders started flowing one after another. As this continued, the legal officer of the bank or Secretary to the Board, Mzee Macharia Gikonyo, who again, had to be given special security to come and give evidence--- Again, requested to give his evidence in camera. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he then advised Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u that what he was doing was wrong. This is what the bank had advised your predecessor Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela. I have attached in my evidence, communication between him and Mr. Macharia Gikonyo, the legal officer. He was defying that advice. I have attached e-mails that he was sending to the legal officer from abroad when he was there. I have attached letters on which he has marked and scripled showing how he defied expert opinion from the bank Secretary.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I know that we have said that there should be no interruptions, but is it really fair that as the hon. Member is giving us his Report, he is also construing what is supposed to be a conclusion, that already leads to bias, if we were told to be quiet and listen to the Report? Could he give his Report without calling people “Siamese twins who are going to share loot” because that means that, already, he is concluding for us what we have not concluded after hearing this Report ourselves?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have been referred to as having connived to share some spoils. That, in my understanding---
You do not have to go further. Hon. Khalwale, you know that, that is a breach of the rules.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you could give the necessary directions to protect my reputation.
Indeed, hon. Khalwale, you know the rules on that one. You cannot cast such aspersions, such as the Minister looting, without a substantive Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have come before this House and the Republic of Kenya not to injure anybody. I am struggling to pick the proper English without offending anybody. What leads me to make this conclusion is arising from the letter dated 25th August, 2006, from hon. Kimunya to Jacinta Mwatela. If you go to the second last paragraph, hon. Kimunya says: “In our discussions with James Houssay(?) of De La Rue, during the visit to Ruaraka Plant in July, they were agreeable to change the dates without cost implications to Central Bank. Let me know of progress on this and if I need to intervene, based on our broad understanding with De La Rue on the potential future partnership.” Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have pointed out that hon. Kimunya was not party to the contract and here, he inadvertently discloses that he went to Ruaraka and discussed with Mr. Houssay(?) of De La Rue about a contract which was not his; and actually cut a deal that “should we cancel this contract, you will not make any claim.” In fact, for the sake of the truth, the Directors of De La Rue appeared before my Committee and confirmed---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. With all due respect to the Chairman - we know that he has done a very good job on this Report – is he in order to continue imputing improper motive on hon. Kimunya; that he connived for spoils without any proof? Whatever he has read does not prove anything.
Dr. Machage, indeed, I did point out to him that, that would be out of order and I understood him to be withdrawing the “looting” allegation. What is your point of order, hon. Kiunjuri?
Order! You are out of order! Hon. Njuguna, what is your point of order?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chair of the Committee to refer to Mr. Kimunya and Prof. Ndung’u as twins when he is aware that twins are from the same mother and same father?
Dr. Khalwale, whatever you meant, you are clearly out of order but I assume you spoke metaphorically.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You made a ruling that we appreciate and let the Chair move after which we are going to do our interventions. We are still holding our breath. Could the other Members, who feel that they want to intervene hold their horses, until he finishes otherwise we are going to interject and he will not make progress?
I hope your advice is well heeded. Continue Dr. Khalwale.
I have referred to a law---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is important that we let the Chairman move; but it is equally important that we are not condemned unheard. The fact that you raise issues about deal cutting, sharing costs and not showing how this---
Are you not being repetitive. I have made a ruling on that issue. What is your point of order? Do not repeat the issue that has been raised by Dr. Machage, and on which the Chair has made a ruling.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are responsible for the accuracy of the statements that we make before this House; there is the question of substantiation. If you are that lenient, then we shall continue injuring each other as long as we are not made to substantiate our claims.
Order! He has not repeated---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it Mr. Duale? Please, let us allow Dr. Khalwale to complete moving his Motion.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is on a point of procedure. The Mover moves, he is seconded, the House debates; it is up to the House to decide the way to go; it can either reject or adopt the report. We should give the Chair, as I said earlier, a chance to proceed and conclude the moving, otherwise we will sit here until the cows come back home.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is just to supplement what Mr. Duale has said. Having listened to the points of order that have been raised, particularly the other side, they are very similar, yet you have made a ruling on those points of order. So, can you allow the Mover to move this Motion?
Dr. Khalwale, move on and do not provoke points of order by using language that attracts the points of order.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have made reference to a loss of Kshs1.83 billion. It is imperative that this House is sufficiently convinced that, indeed, that loss was there. I want to beg hon. Members to go to Appendix No.2. You will find on page 5 of Appendix No.2 how the loss was calculated. The Auditor-General did a special audit, and, when sitting in the Committee--- Ordinarily, the modus operandi is that in grave issues the Auditor-General personally sits in the Committee, but on lesser issues he sends his deputy. When sitting in the Committee he gave us his opinion in the form of a special audit. That special audit is on pages 5 and 6 and you will see how---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are some procedures and precedents that must be observed in this House. A report is being referred to by the Chairman from the Controller and Auditor-General’s report, which by tradition is supposed to have been tabled in this House to be adopted. I need the guidance of the Chair. Is it proper for the Chairman to use that report, which has not been tabled in this House?
Dr. Khalwale, maybe, you can address that issue as you make your presentation.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is an easy one. The Assistant Minister can paint it against the Constitution. Article 229(7) of the Constitution provides the procedure through which audit reports can find themselves here. It provides that:- “Audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly”.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had wanted to raise this point of order for some time and I did not get the time. I agree with what the Chairman has said about the Constitution on Article 229 on the submission of audit reports. It says that audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly and he has shown a letter from the Auditor-General to the Clerk of the National Assembly. When you go to the Public Audit Act, 2003, which is still law, Sections 42(1), (2) and (3), it says that the report should be submitted to the Minister, but if the Minister fails to table it, it should be submitted to the Speaker, who will then table it in Parliament. So, the audit report the Chairman is referring to has not been tabled in Parliament.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I support your request from the Members that we concentrate on receiving the report from the Chairman, I was concerned when Dr. Machage rose and said that he does not know the procedure. Actually, it is true he will not have known the contents of the Constitution because when we were going through the whole process, he was still in the “No Camp”. So, there is no way he could have known what was in the Constitution.
Order! Hon. Members, let us allow Dr. Khalwale to make his presentation. All these issues that you are raising can be raised as points of debate when the Motion is seconded. Continue, Dr. Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect to my senior colleague in Medicine, Dr. Eseli, he is quoting from a statute and the same Constitution, which he knows, tells him that in terms of comparison, when a statute competes with the Constitution, the Constitution takes precedence. It overrides. That is for the loss. Allow me now to go to the issue of the joint venture. We have made a specific recommendation that we are supporting the joint venture but we have pointed out in our recommendations anomalies which must be addressed by the Government if the Government wants to respect institutions; and if the Government wants to rule this country using the rule of law. The Section 231(3) of the Constitution of Kenya insists that procurement cannot be done without a competitive process. That is in black and white. We have insisted that there must be need for a feasibility study, risk analysis and assessment of the machines which are there. We took the trouble and visited the plant in Ruaraka. We were shocked
Hon. Dr. Khalwale, I am reminded to caution you that you have five minutes remaining.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I fail to finish due to the many points of orders, allow me an additional five minutes so that I conclude this important matter. We have now put the Treasury under pressure to now give more money to Telkom (K) and yet the intention of privatisation that led to the loss of 1,700 jobs at Telkom (K) or the reason was that we wanted to make it a profit-making State Corporation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were shocked as Members of the Committee to hear both De La Rue Directors and hon. Amos Kimunya tell us that they were so patriotic they wanted to save 260 jobs at De La Rue. Where was that patriotism when the same Minister was killing the jobs of 1,700 Kenyans at Telkom (K)? This is an excuse.
I beg this House that to encourage Government into investment is something which is obtaining in other countries including the USA. But please, if you have to invest tell the country what you are investing in and that which you are investing in, let Kenyans know how much it is worth. You cannot just take hundreds of millions of Kenya shillings or Kshs600 million and say you are investing and then what I fear will happen as it happened in Telkom (K) is that when these investors will pack and go because there is no capacity for printing currency in Ruaraka, the creditors or themselves will come back and sue us for breach of
I will give you an extra sixty seconds to move because your time is up!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to beg hon. Members to support this Report and allow me to remember what the great American President, Abraham Lincoln, who felt for black people, said. He said, “If slavery was not wrong, then nothing in America was wrong.” I am saying today that this is corruption and if corruption is not wrong then nothing in Kenya can possibly be wrong. With those remarks, I beg to move and request Dr. Kones to second the Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank my colleagues in the Committee for putting all their time into the work that led to this Report. It took us time to go through the relevant documents. We got so much
Hon. Kones, I am sorry to interrupt you. The clocks in the House need to be synchronised. You will have 18 minutes when debate on this Motion resumes.
Hon. Members, it is now time to adjourn the House to Tuesday, 4th September, 2012, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.