Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Lands the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that about 50 farmers and their families are about to be evicted from land they have occupied for close to 15 years by Egerton University in Mpeketoni, Lamu? (b) How did the University acquire the land and from whom? (c) Could the Minister provide copies of ownership documents by the University?
Where is the Minister for Lands? On the Front Bench, I can see Mr. Ndambuki. Any idea where your colleague is?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can we proceed then see what happens in the second round because I am sure they are still on the way.
How does the second round come in? Mbunge wa Bura! REHABILITATION OF BANGALE DAM
Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, naomba kumuuliza Waziri wa Maji na Unyunyiziaji Mashamba Maji Swali maalulum lifuatalo. (a) Je, Waziri ana habari kwamba maji ya Bwawa la Bangale, ambalo ndilo njia pekee ya maji kwa wakazi wa Bangale limeharibika? (b) Je, Waziri ana habari zaidi kuwa kuna uwezekano wa kuzuka maradhi kutokana na matumizi ya maji haya? (c) Ni hatua gani Waziri amechukua ili kuepusha wenyeji na hatari hiyo?
Waziri wa Maji na Unyunyiziaji Mashamba Maji? Kama hayuko tutakuja kwa mkondo wa pili.
I am aware that the Committee on Justice is sitting with regard to the election rules and Mr. Baiya is the Chair. Is anybody aware whether he has requested someone to hold his brief in this matter? I will also come back to it later.
asked the Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he is aware of the planned disposal of land and property belonging to the Nairobi City Council, in particular land meant for fire stations; (b) whether he could also provide a list of land and properties currently owned by the Council; and, (c) whether he could inform the House what plans the Ministry has to ensure that properties owned by the Council are secure as the country moves to the devolved governments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware of any plan by the City Council of Nairobi to dispose of its land and properties. The City Council of Nairobi does not have plans now or in the future to dispose of property, in particular, fire stations. I know some Nairobi residents have applied to the Council to be allowed to operate kiosks within parts of a fire station, that is, the Tom Mboya Fire Station compound, on a rental basis. The application was, however, rejected by the city engineer who indicated that this would cause congestion in and around the fire station. (b) Attached is Annex I, a list of Council properties and land, including offices, schools, clinics, dispensaries, parks, housing estates currently owned by the City Council. (c) My Ministry has already issued circulars to all local authorities, instructing them not to dispose of any properties belonging to them. This is to protect public properties in local authorities as we move to devolved governments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can see the Assistant Minister is tabling the documents now. My Question was very specific. I expected the list
Tomorrow may be too late because I think the Order Paper is being prepared. Will Tuesday next week be okay with you?
Would you then kindly allow me to look at it before the next Question?
Can I come back to it at the end of Questions, to give you an opportunity to look at the list?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. That will allow me time to just go through it.
I will come back to the Question towards the end so as to give you an opportunity to look at the list.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Even as Mrs. Shebesh looks at the list, we are aware that even if the Council is not disposing of land, it is entering into long-term leases. Could the Assistant Minister, when he comes to give the answer---
You are being premature. He has not even completed answering the Question. Mrs. Shebesh requested to look at the list. You can validly bring up that issue when Mrs. Shebesh has taken the first bite. It is her right to ask the first question.
Properly guided. Thank you.
Next Question is by Mr. Balala.
LIST OF BENEFICIARIES ISSUED WITH LETTERS OF ALLOTMENT/TITLE DEEDS IN LAMU COUNTY We shall come back to this Question later. Next Question is by the hon. Member for Keiyo North, Mr. Chepkittony. If the hon. Member is not yet in we shall come back to the Question later.
STALLING OF ITEN-KAPSOWAR ROAD Next Question is by the hon. Member for Samburu East, Mr. Letimalo.
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) why the Ministry has not posted security personnel to Ndonyo- Wasin AP Line in Uaso Division of Samburu East District, one year after its construction was completed by CDF, and when will they be posted; and, (b) whether he is aware that both the CDF and the local community mobilized resources to establish a patrol base unit at Losesia on the border of Samburu East and Isiolo North Districts and, if so, what support will the Minister offer to the community.
Is the Minister not here? Mr. Mwakwere, do you have any idea where your colleague is?
It has just been brought to my notice that the Minister has actually written to the House, explaining that he will not be available today because of official matters. He has asked that this Question be deferred to enable him make a personal statement. Hon. Letimalo, do you have anything to say about that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Question has been filed for quite sometime. I thought that it would actually be prudent if the Minister could give an appropriate answer, given that it touches on security in that particular area.
To his credit, he has informed the Speaker’s Office of his absence. If the Clerks-at-the-Table can confirm that the Order Paper is not ready, we can put it tomorrow. Will that be okay, Mr. Letimalo?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Tomorrow afternoon. Hon. Mwakwere, please, let your colleague know that this will come up tomorrow afternoon.
asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) when the Government will formulate and present before the House the Root and Tuber Crops Policy; (b) what the benefits of the proposed policy are; and, (c) which other country in Africa has a similar policy.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, part “a” of the Question is very specific. The Question is: When will the Government formulate and present before the House the Root and Tuber Crops Policy? The Assistant Minister has not stated when. I am aware that this matter has been in Government offices for the last three or four years. Could the Assistant Minister be specific?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the next 12 months, we will have a policy in place. As I said, it is being cleaned up and will be presented to the Cabinet for approval.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what plans does the Ministry have to sensitize our farmers on this very important policy?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI) has been given the mandate to spearhead this root crops. There are many farmers whom they have given the cuttings of cassava and even vines for sweet potatoes. People are being sensitized even during farmers’ field days, barazas and agricultural officers’ meetings. Currently, this is a major exercise in the Ministry of Agriculture, to make sure that those who can grow cassava or sweet potatoes can do so. We also have factories. For example, Mr. C. Kilonzo’s constituency has a cassava factory. I also have a cassava factory in my constituency. So, we are moving in the right direction.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has just mentioned here that there is a cassava factory in hon. C. Kilonzo’s constituency and also his area. Could he tell us, in formulating this policy, how much time he took to involve the farmers, like those in Migori, who actually depend on cassava for their livelihood? Did you involve them in formulating this policy?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have done consultations in every part where cassava is grown. We are still cleaning the document and it will be all inclusive.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell this House how much the Government is prepared to spend in terms of research, since the type of tuber that we have in this country has been grown in the old ways and we would like, possibly, to have it done in the modern way?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the actual amount which has been set aside to do this research on cassava. But what I know is that
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has said that farmers everywhere are being sensitized on these crops. How much has he set aside for this planting season per constituency, to ensure that those cuttings are distributed in the constituencies?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, we released what is referred to as “high value seeds” to 117 districts. Also, we included about 11 million cuttings and vines of cassava and sweet potatoes.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is telling us about districts, when my question is simple and very specific. How much has he set aside per constituency this rain season, to sensitize the farmers? It is not just about his constituency and hon. C. Kilonzo’s constituency. Kenya is bigger.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought each constituency is a district according to the law which---
No, it is not!
Just continue answering the question as you understand it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have delivered to 117 constituencies which are in the ASAL region. I have a breakdown but I do not have the breakdown of what went to each constituency but I know I have figures per district.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when Mr. C. Kilonzo asked when this policy will be in place, the Assistant Minister was so emphatic that the policy will be in place in the next 12 months. How sure is he, especially now that we are likely to have had Elections? How sure is he, if he happens to be voted out or if the Government happens to change hands, because he must have put structures in place to make sure that even those who take over from him would also prioritize this policy? How sure is he?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not the Ministry. Even when I will be gone, the Ministry will be there and the policies remain there. The plans are for the country and not for individuals who are in offices at the moment. So, I am sure because this is a very important policy which is currently missing and it is going to be put in place whether we go for Elections or not.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministry has not been kind to farmers and the reason I have asked about the issue of cassava is because the Government promoted farmers in drier parts of this country to grow cotton. This Ministry has reneged on its promise to cotton farmers. Even the Permanent Secretary has told cotton farmers, the stakeholders, that if cotton is not making money, they should look for another alternative. Now the Government is promoting cassava and the Kenya Agricultural Institute (KARI), the Red Cross and other players are doing a good job. He has said that is it going to take them 12 months to come up with a policy and in his answer, he has specifically stated that they are now dealing with the last stakeholder which is the National Potato Council (NPC). Why should it take 12 months? I thought it
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said, it needs cleaning and there are some stakeholders like the NPC which was brought on board. There are others and there are further consultations. From there, it will go to the Cabinet for approval. The only thing I could assure the hon. Member is that the policy is going to be in place because it is required by all farmers who are doing that. It will also enhance the marketing of the cassava although at the moment the cassava grown locally does not even meet the local demand. However, I can assure the hon. Member that in the shortest time possible, we will have a policy on root and tuber crops.
asked the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:- (a) what measures the Government has taken to operationalize the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission since the former Advisory Board’s term expired on 5th December, 2011; (b) when the newly appointed Chairperson and two other Commissioners will be sworn in to office in view of the increased number of corruption cases which require urgent attention; and, (c) what action the Ministry will take to fully implement Section 6 of the Ethics and Anti-corruption Act of 2011.
Mr. Wamalwa is not here? Mr. Mwakwere, where is your colleague?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg your indulgence to have this Question answered---
But where is he? Can we come back to it?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would suggest that we come back to it at the very end.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will wait but this Question has been pending for the last two months and every time the Minister asks if I am ready to wait. I hope Mr. Mwakwere will go out and look for the Minister; his office is not very far.
I am sure he has heard you so we will come back to this a little later.
Where is Mr. Olago? We will also give him the same benefit. We will come back to this Question later.
Mr. Chanzu is not here and so we will also come back to this Question a little later. I will now go back to the beginning. Ms. Shakila Abdalla, you may ask your Question for the second time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the second time, I beg to ask the Minister for Lands, the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that about 50 farmers and their families are about to be evicted from land they have occupied for close to 15 years by Egerton University in Mpeketoni, Lamu? (b) How did the University acquire the land and from who? (c) Could the Minister provide copies of ownership documents by the University?
Where is the Minister for Lands? Mr. Mwakwere?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a very bad traffic jam towards the center of the City.
I will once again request you, humbly, to have this Question answered at the earliest opportunity starting from tomorrow.
Because of the traffic jam? Are you serious that you are asking for the postponement of this Question because of traffic jam and for that reason you want it answered tomorrow?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes.
Ms. Shakila Abdalla, what do you have to say to that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the problem is traffic jam, could this Question be answered this afternoon?
It cannot be answered this afternoon, unfortunately.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, then tomorrow afternoon.
Mr. Mwakwere, your colleagues know that failure to answer Questions under our Standing Orders amounts to misconduct and the reason you are giving is not sufficient enough for failure to answer a Question by the Minister or another Member of the Government.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I plead that you give this special consideration and I will inform my colleagues that it must be answered at the earliest opportunity that you will give us.
Ms. Shakila Abdalla, I am going to give the Minister a final chance to answer this Question on Tuesday next week, failure to which the Chair will refer it to the Powers and Privileges Committee because this is getting far too common now on the part of Ministers not being in the House and not giving any explanations at all as to why Questions by Private Notice are not getting the attention they deserve under the Standing Orders. So, it will be on Tuesday at 2.30 p.m. coupled with an explanation from the Minister as to why they were not in the House to answer the Question. REHABILITATION OF BANGALE DAM
Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ningependa kumuuliiza Waziri wa Maji na Unyunyizaji Swali lifuatalo la Dharura. (a) Je, Waziri ana habari ya kwamba maji ya Bwawa la Bangale ambayo ndiyo njia pekee ya maji kwa wakazi wa Bangale imeharibika? (b) Je, Waziri ana habari zaidi kuwa kuna uwezekano wa kuzuka maradhi kutokana na matumizi ya maji haya? (c) Ni hatua gani Waziri amechukua ili kuepusha wenyeji kwa hatari hiyo?
Yuko wapi Waziri wa Maji na Unyunyizaji? Bw. Mwakwere?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will inform the Minister that this Question was supposed to be answered this morning and failure to do so will---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am surprised that this Government does not know where the Government is. In as much as I know that the Minister has an official function in my constituency, the Assistant Minister who has been very able in answering Questions--- It cannot escape the attention of the Minister that there is an Assistant Minister unless of course, as usual, he has been arrested by the same Government for fighting for his own people.
Dr. Nuh, there is indication from the office of the Minister that this Question was answered last week. What would you like to say to that before I give any directions?
Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, hili Swali halikujibiwa wiki jana wakati nilikuwa Garsen kushughulikia shida iliyokuwa huko. Bw. Spika aliamuru kwamba swali liwekwe kwenye ratiba ya leo.
It has been explained to me that it was deferred because of your absence and not for any other reason. Now, because of that reason and the fact that the Minister is away this week, I will direct that this Question be pushed to Tuesday next week. The reason I am not putting any sanctions on the Minister is because it was deferred because of your absence. Is Tuesday next week alright with you?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, although the matter is so urgent, I have no option. Again, even though the Question was deferred, the Government has an office in Parliament and they know when Questions are appearing. As the Minister has alluded, Ministers are always unable to come here to answer Questions because of the traffic jam. We will, therefore, request Parliament to build some hostels around here so that when Ministers have Questions to answer they are accommodated there so that they are not delayed by the traffic jam.
I am sure your sentiments have been heard by Mr. Mwakwere. This Question will be deferred until Tuesday, next week.
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) When the uncompleted 5 kms section of the Kirigiti – Kibichoi Road (C64) will be completed; and (b) if he is aware that the section of the road between Kirigiti – Marige has developed potholes reflecting shoddy work done by the contractor and, if so, what action the Minister will take against the contractor.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I also apologize for having come late. I was engaged in preparations for Committee work which is going on here in Parliament. It was not intentional; I ran out of time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg for the indulgence of the House. I was not able to pick the written answer this morning because of disarrangement of my schedule. I beg that I answer this Question in the afternoon.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will have no problem with that for the sake of getting an adequate response from the Minister because this is a road which has been causing a lot of hardships to the local residents. If he can do so in the afternoon, I will really appreciate.
We have deferred it to a day other than Tuesday next week. Is Wednesday morning alright with you?
That is okay.
The Question is deferred to next Wednesday, morning session. Hon. Rachel Shebesh, have you now acquainted yourself with the answer given? Are you now prepared to ask supplementary questions?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for that chance to look at the answer and the list that was provided. My concern is that the Assistant Minister indicates that he is not aware. His answer is that he is not aware. I have it on good record that all fire stations in Nairobi have been sold. They have been given out in long leases and they have been grabbed; whichever word suits the Assistant Minister. Does he say that he is not aware because he has not consulted or is it that he believes he has been given a wrong answer? Does he really believe that there are any fire stations in Nairobi today that are owned by the City Council? As the Assistant Minister answers that Question, I would like him to be very categorical whether he would want to prove that those fire stations still belong to the Nairobi City Council.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the hon. Member for taking time to look through the list which has numerous fire stations listed. The documentation on ownership is under the custody of the City Council of Nairobi. If the hon. Member has any specific concerns on any of the fire stations, I want to assure her that they will not be grabbed and they have not been grabbed under my watch. I also want to assure her that I have consulted with the Town Clerk and we have said that we can avail ourselves with the documentation that she needs so that we can prove and visit the sites she has concerns about.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to say that he assures this House that these plots are not going to be grabbed whereas as we talk now part of the land meant for fire stations is being developed by private developers? The relevant Departmental Committee has been investigating the matter and that is why you see my able Chairman rising on a point of order on the same issue. Is he in order to mislead the House that they are doing everything to ensure that these properties are not taken by private developers?
Mr. Nguyai, is this matter pending before a Committee of the House?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware that the House was investigating certain issues, but I have not got the outcome of those particular plots. I would wish that the hon. Member becomes more specific about which plots. That way, we would get down to that and, probably, sort it out at the level of the Committee.
What is your point of order, Mrs. Shebesh?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order was when the Assistant Minister said that he had consulted with the Town Clerk. I would want to know who the Town Clerk of Nairobi is. These days, Town Clerks are being sneaked in for three months, they collect money for campaigns and then they are received by former Ministers for Local Government into their parties so that they can vie. We want to know who this new Town Clerk you have sneaked in is.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have a new Town Clerk. I will not go into the details. The new Town Clerk is Mr. Tom Odongo. He already has his appointment letter.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has talked about the protection of the school land in Nairobi. What collective measure is the Ministry taking---
Order, Mr. David Njuguna! I understand that the Committee has actually completed its investigation. I wonder whether there is any Member from the Committee here who can shed some light on this matter.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have summoned the Ministry officials and those from the Nairobi City Council to come to the Committee because there have been complaints that instead of selling – there was an embargo to that effect – they are now entering into 25 years, 30 years and 50 years leases which are equal to selling. We have not completed writing the Report. In fact, we are just about to start writing the Report.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister raised the issue of protecting school land in Nairobi. What is the Ministry doing to facilitate the issuance of title deeds to schools in Nairobi?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not only happening in Nairobi, but across the country; we are encouraging all educational institutions to acquire titles, so that they can further develop as we proceed to county governments. Even though there is an embargo on all private lease transfers, we are still processing and liaising with the Ministry of Lands and as soon we get any minutes from any of the councils, we will give titles to those institutions.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is either misleading the House or has been misled into providing information that is not very clear. If you look through the list of properties that he has provided to the House, there are several properties in terms of land that he had indicated as zero hectares. Could he tell the House how the Nairobi City Council can own zero hectares of a property? “Zero hectares” means no land.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know that computers sometimes round off figures and if they round off, the decimal points are not shown. They will reflect as zero. As to whether this is zero hectares, we will provide sufficient points so that the Member can be assured that that land exists.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is misleading the House by saying that when computers round off figures, the decimal point is not shown. If you go through this list, you will realize that there are several pieces of land which do not have land reference numbers, no acreage in terms of size and some of
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister ought to come out very clearly. In one of the pieces of land, namely, EN1, Harambee Avenue, it is New Echo Toilet. The acreage is indicated as 0.0258 hectares. If there was any number to be rounded off to zero, it would not have been any other number but this. Close to 50 pieces of land are indicated as zero hectares. What type of land is that that has zero hectares?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to blame all those rounding up errors to computer errors, yet we know that computers can be made very accurate? Has he just been infected by the syndrome of his Principal that whenever they make a mistake, they blame computer errors?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were requested to provide a list of the properties, clinics, dispensaries, parks and housing estates. Some of these properties are marked on the list as un-surveyed. This basically means that we do not have the full accurate data on what their sizes are. The list has all the Council properties. If there are concerns with any of the properties, I am wondering whether they should be brought to us or to the substantive Committee, so that it can deal with the issues that arise substantively.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, even as we investigate this matter, could the Assistant Minister consider issuing a circular to all local authorities directing them not to enter into long-term leases?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, such a circular exists. It was written and circulated. If it is necessary for us to re-issue the circular re-affirming that issue, we will do that and I will avail that circular to the House.
Given that this matter is actually pending before a Committee, I direct that today’s HANSARD be provided to the Committee and the Committee meets and completes its report within the next three weeks. Hon. Shebesh, subject to what I have said, you may now ask your final question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that direction. Let it also go on record that there is a Transitional Authority that should look at the protection of assets that are currently owned by councils in preparation for the county governments. What properties has the Transitional Authority identified as belonging to the Nairobi City Council and in good hands and not in the hands of hon. Nguyai and his Town Clerks, who sneak them in and out? We want the properties to be in good hands for the people of Nairobi when it becomes Nairobi County.
Hon. Assistant Minister, subject to what I have said, this Question will come back on the Order Paper three weeks from today, so that the answers to what hon. Shebesh and others have raised, can all be incorporated in the report. This Question will re-appear on the Order Paper three weeks from today to enable the relevant Committee to complete its work. The issues that have been raised during Question Time this morning should be reflected in that report, given the importance of land issues, not only within Nairobi, but throughout the country.
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) how much money the Ministry has set aside for tarmacking of Iten-Kapsowar Road (D 329); and, (b) why it has taken too long for the contractor who is already on site to commence the works for the 12-kilometres section of the road which has been tendered.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologize for coming late.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry, through the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA) has set aside Kshs240 million for tarmacking the Iten-Kapsowar Road, otherwise referred to as Road D329. (b) The contractor delayed in commencing due to a discrepancy on the survey data, but the issue has now been sorted out and the works are progressing.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for his answer. Could he tell this House when the first 12 kilometres of the road will be completed, how much will it cost to complete it and whether this Kshs240 million will be enough or not?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the construction has been divided into two phases. The first phase is Iten-Burugar which is 12 kilometres, otherwise, referred to as Phase 1. It is going to be completed by April, 2013. Its cost is estimated to be Kshs656,510,497. We have given the first phase of financing and we will finance as we continue.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a similar issue in Garissa with the road between Modikar and Nuno and it is 11 kilometres. The contractor, an Iranian company, namely, Icon, was given that contract to begin in February this year, but up to now, it has not started. What punitive measures does the Government use when a contractor fails to start work as per the scheduled time given in the contract?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, every contract has its terms. If the contractor will not work according to the terms of the contract, it will be cancelled.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, time and again, issues of shoddy work on our roads have been cropping up in this House. What is the Ministry doing to comprehensively address these issues, particularly on the roads that will be under construction soon?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, I am also equally disturbed by some contractors who do not give us value for our money. Unfortunately, most of them are own local contractors. Whereas we are trying to encourage the local citizens to get the jobs for contracting on our roads, I will not accept shoddy work on any of our roads. In fact, we have shortlisted a few of these contractors who are doing shoddy works on our roads and we will terminate their services immediately. That is what we will do. Let them stand warned.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is aware this road is under Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA). It extends from Iten to Nyaru. But they have allocated money from Iten to Kapsowar. When will the Ministry allocate money to do this section of road from Iten to Nyaru under the Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA)?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, whereas we are looking at all our roads with the purposes of improving them, I will request that the Member prioritizes that road through the Constituency Roads Committee where he is the patron.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to say that we prioritize this road? The road from Iten to Nyaru is a “C” road. It is under KeNHA. We do not oversee roads being done by KeNHA? Is he in order?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, whereas it might be an oversight on my part, but he is the Member of Parliament of that area, and he still has that obligation if he thinks it is necessary to give it priority. But I have taken his sentiments.
Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, zabuni za ujenzi wa barabara nyingi hapa nchini zimetolewa lakini ukarabati wazo umecheleweshwa. Mheshimiwa Rais alizuru maeneo ya Bonde la Ufa kuzindua rasmi ukarabati wa barabara ya Ziwa hadi Kitale. Wakati huo mwanakandarasi alikusanya mitambo yake kwa minajili ya kumwonyesha Rais alikuwa tayari kuanzisha ukarabati wa barabara hiyo. Ni aibu kuona ukarabati wa barabara hiyo haujaanza. Ni hatua gani Waziri anachukua kuhakikisha kwamba ukarabati wa barabara hiyo unaanza mara moja?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought that is a completely different Question from what I have been asked this morning. However, I have noted that concern. A presidential directive is important and it must be adhered to. I will find out why that directive was not followed and why the contractor assembled equipment for the President to see he was already on site.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I got the Assistant Minister right, he says he allocated Kshs70 million this financial and intends to complete this road by April. Is that money sufficient to complete the road?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, the Member got me wrong. I said we have allocated this road Kshs240 million. We will continue financing the road up to the tune of over Kshs600 million this financial year.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has attributed the delay in the commencement of the work to survey discrepancy. Could he confirm that they did engage a consultant to prepare the survey and tender documents before the tendering procedures were commenced?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg that the hon. Member repeat his question because hon. Mwakwere was loudly consulting. Therefore, I did not hear his question. I beg for protection.
Hon. Mwakwere, please, allow your colleague opportunity to listen to the question. Hon. Mwaita, will you like to repeat your question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I can repeat the question for the benefit of the Assistant Minister. He attributed the delay to commence the work on survey data discrepancy. Before the commencement of the tendering procedures, did the Ministry recruit or engage the services of a consultant which could have included the survey work of this road?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, engineers in my Ministry took a lot of cognisance of this fact and everything was done in order.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the same note, could the Assistant Minister tell us why the Miritini-Mombasa Road has been delayed and the tender was out for one year?
Mr. Assistant Minister, would you like to answer that question? It appears to be a completely different question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true it is a different question, but I have taken note of the concern of the hon. Member.
Very well, last question hon. Chepkitony.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to the records, the 12 kilometres portion of this road was allocated Kshs100 million last year. They have also allocated it Kshs70 million this financial year. Phase two of this road has been allocated another Kshs70 million. In total, the Assistant Minister says they have allocated Kshs240 million for rehabilitation of this road. What is the logic of them starting to do another section of this road before they complete the first 12 kilometres? Why not concentrate all the money on the 12 kilometres, so that you complete it by April next year?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, those are Ministerial logistics on financing. I thought the Member will be happy that we are considering and actually starting phase two. But if he so wishes, I will stop it.
asked the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:- (a) what measures the Government has taken to operationalize the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission since the former Advisory Board’s term expired on 5th December, 2011, (b) when the newly appointed Chairperson and two other Commissioners will be sworn in to office in view of the increased number of corruption cases which require urgent attention; and, (c) what action the Ministry will take to fully implement Section 6 of the Ethics and Anti-corruption Act of 2011.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to apologize for coming late. However, I beg to reply. (a) The Government took the following measures to operationalize the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission:- The nominees for the position of the Chairperson and members of the Commission were selected, as provided for under Section 8 of the Ethics and Anti Corruption Act, 2011. Upon selection of the applicants to these positions, my Ministry forwarded these names to this honourable House for approval as per Section 6 (6) of the Act. The nominees, having been approved by the House, were duly appointed by the President and are now awaiting their swearing in. This swearing in is dependent on the determination of the High Court Case No.19 of 2012, which is challenging the approval and appointment of the Chairperson to the Commission. (b) The swearing in of the Chairperson and Commissioners is dependent on the outcome of the High Court Case No.19 of 2012 which was filed by the Trusted Society of Human Rights Alliance against the Attorney General and three others. (c) Section 6 of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Act which provides for the appointment of persons to the position of Chairperson and Commissioners has been implemented as the appointment process has been undertaken. The only pending issue is the swearing-in of these appointees that is required by Section 74 of our Constitution and Section 8 of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Act, 2011 which is subject to the ruling of the High Court.
Mr. Duale, as you ask a supplementary question, be mindful that the matter is sub judice . Therefore, ask questions that do not directly relate to the case that is pending before court. You may proceed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to seek your indulgence to brief the Assistant Minister because the answer he has given is not sufficient. However, I am ready to provide the correct and current position.
Order! If you have an answer to a Question, it would be inappropriate to ask the Question in the House!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not an answer because the information that the Assistant Minister is giving---
You can point out that it is misleading. How is it misleading?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is misleading because the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission and the Police Service Commission are very critical and important constitutional offices that this Government has not operationalized up to now. The Chair and the two Commissioners were gazetted on 11th May, 2012 and the High Court case in Nyamira has been withdrawn. The only case that is pending is the Nairobi Case No.229 of 2011, which is awaiting determination tomorrow. The Chief Justice has not been enjoined in that case. In that case also, there are no orders directing the Assistant Minister or the Government not to swear-in the two other Commissioners. I want the Assistant Minister to categorically tell the nation whether there is something going on in the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission that they want to sort out, probably some cases, before swearing-in Irene Keino and Prof. Jane Onsongo as we wait for the determination of the High Court case against Mumo Matemo?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me begin with the last part of the question. I am not aware that there is something going on in the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission with an intention to sort out certain cases before the Commissioners are sworn-in. Secondly, if you look at Section 4 of the Act, you will find that the Commission consists of the Chairperson and two other nominees appointed in accordance with the Act. So, there are three members and one of them is the Chair. We have Court Case No.19 of 2012 in Nakuru where the Attorney-General is a party to the suit. The court issued some orders restraining any action to swear-in the Chairperson.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Chair, the Assistant Minister and I know, as lawyers, that there is no requirement to the effect that the Commissioners must only be sworn-in if the Chairman is there. The only case to my knowledge that is stopping the Chairman from being sworn-in is one, but there is nothing stopping the two other Commissioners from being sworn-in. So, is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House by saying that all the Commissioners cannot be sworn-in just because there is a case against the Chairman?
I would like the Assistant Minister to respond to that issue together with the one to be raised by Mr. Duale who is on a point of order. I would like the Assistant Minister to respond to the two issues if I sustain Mr. Duale’s point of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I said earlier on that this Assistant Minister is misleading this House, and he must get the facts right. The Nakuru case has been consolidated and brought to Nairobi High Court under Petition No.229 of 2011 formerly of Nakuru High Court where the Chief Justice has formed a Three-Bench-Judge. So, the Assistant Minister should not mislead us because currently, there is no case in Nakuru because the one that was pending in Nakuru was brought to Nairobi. So, the Assistant Minister is misleading the House. Let him put his facts in order. Is he in order to mislead this House?
Mr. Assistant Minister, I think it is important that you clarify the issue of those cases. The way to do it, as you know, is to present the pleadings to the House. If you rely on the principle of sub judice under our Standing Orders, you are required to table before the House particulars of the case and point out their status so that we know whether they are active so that you can dispel the issues being raised by Members that, indeed, there is no case pending in Nakuru. What would you like to say to that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me confirm to the House that, indeed, Nakuru Case No.19 of 2012 was brought to Nairobi and that is the case under which the orders subsist. The ruling will actually come up tomorrow 20th September. So, it is true that the Nakuru case was transferred to Nairobi and what hon. Duale is saying is, indeed, true. Let me now deal with the issue raised by hon. Olago. There is no order stopping the swearing-in of the two Commissioners. However, we should not act in vain because even if we swore the two Commissioners under the Act, for the functions of the Commission to be effective and be fully operational, the Chairman should also be sworn- in. So, our position is, though it is possible to swear-in the two Commissioners, however, that will not help us, as a Commission, to proceed. Since the ruling will be given tomorrow, l plead with my colleagues that we allow the court to issue it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, even as the Assistant Minister pleads with us about the ruling that will be made tomorrow, I think he should do things right and on record. There has been a precedent set before; that is, we approved the name of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) in this House, he was sworn-in and yet he still had a pending court case. The Assistant Minister has not told us whether he has orders from the court to the Chief Justice stopping the swearing-in of Mumo Matemo because of a court case. So, can we be clear? Who is making this decision not to swear-in two Commissioners who have no court case and the one who has a court case, because it is only orders to the Chief Justice that can make that decision?
Order! I think the Assistant Minister has given an explanation that for the Commission to be fully constituted, the Chair must be fully sworn-in. They have deemed it reasonable to await the outcome of the decision tomorrow so that they can swear in the three of them because swearing-in the two Commissioners will not facilitate the work of the Commission without the Chair. That is what I understood the Assistant Minister to be saying. Nevertheless, Mr. Assistant Minister, what is it that you want to add on to what hon. Shebesh has raised?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I said really is what you have just emphasized, that we feel that we should not act in vain. This is a very important Commission. We know what it is supposed to do. There is no order that bars the swearing-in of the other two commissioners. But we feel that even if we proceed and have them sworn in, they may not be able to discharge the duties of the Commission as spelt out in the Act. Tommorow, the 20th of this month is the day the rulilng will be given. I would plead with my colleagues not to anticipate the ruling of tommorow. But I think from tommorow, this issue will be sorted out and we will be able to have our Commission really proceeding with the functions and the duties they have been given under the Constitution.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when PLO Lumumba left office, he must have had a handing over list of pending cases. Could the Assistant Minister undertake to table the list of cases that were pending when PLO Lumumba was leaving office so that when they eventually swear in Mr. Matemu, this House is certain that the cases will not have been tampered with? Files should be handed over to Mr. Matemu or whoever will come into the office.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is indeed a very important issue because then it will deal with the fears that hon. Members have that maybe there are some things being done behind the scenes. Since this is a different question, my Ministry can call for those cases that existed before the former CEO left and be able to table them before this House. This is information which is critical for us to know and we have no reason to hide it. That can be done under a Ministerial Statement because this Question is fully answered.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, knowing that the political class and the Government are always happy when we have a moribund and “dead” Anti- Corruption Commission, could the Assistant Minister now confirm to the nation that whichever way the court ruling will be tommorow, on Friday morning we will have the commissioners sworn in and operationalize the new Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission---
Mr. Duale, are you not anticipating the decision of the courts tommorow?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the decision of the court tommorow will be only on the chairman.
So, you may ask a question relating to the other two but not on the chairman.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will rephrase my question. Whichever way the court will rule on the chairman tommorow morning, could the Assistant Minister confirm to the nation that on Friday morning the other two commissioners; Irene Keino and Prof. Jane Onsongo will be sworn in on Friday and take office?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue raised by the hon. Member again is what I had answered earlier, that it is true there are no court orders to stop us from swearing in the two, but it would be more prudent if the chair is also sworn in. I do not want to anticipate the outcome of tommorow’s ruling but let us really not---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was still dealing with the issue raised by the hon. Member. The outcome of tommorow’s ruling cannot be anticipated. So, I cannot confirm to this House that the entire Commission should be sworn in on Friday. If the court rules, there is no order stoping us from swearing-in the other two. But swearing in the other two will not be useful to this Commission because they cannot function without the Chair.
Mr. Samoei, that was the last question but I will exercise my discretion and allow you to ask your question.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for your indulgence. I think the Assistant Minister is running away from responding directly to the question asked. I think he should tell the country clearly that when these people applied for these jobs, they did not apply as a group. They applied as individuals to the jobs that were advertised. So, how does the swearing-in of one affect the swearing-in of another who has a court case? The Assistant Minister is just going round. He should be clear; these people applied for these jobs independently. The jobs were advertised independently. So, how does a court case affecting the chairman bar the other two from taking their positions, which they have rightfully been engaged? When will the Assistant Minister swear-in these other people into office and stop taking the country round in circles?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am actually very worried that this could be discrimination against women. If they were two male commissioners with no case pending, would there be people running round in circles not swearing them in? Is it because they are two women and you think you can manipulate the situation?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am always and I want to continue to be truthful to this House. I should be able to undertake what I think is right and will be done. Although these commissioners were appointed separately, this is now a body; a commission. You have to look at them as a team. Section 4 of the Act as I said earlier, is very clear that the Commission shall consist of a chairperson and two other members. You cannot look at them separately. You need to look at the Commission as a body able to discharge the functions of the Commission as a team. When you look at the quorum even under the Act, it should be a quorum taken by a majority of the commissioners. If we have two commissioners, for example, sitting and dealing with the issue of the Commission and there is a tie between the two, how will you break that tie? Therefore, we have to look at the three members as a body to be able to discharge the functions of the Commission. This is a very important aspect. As I said, tommorow is not far; let us wait. I believe this Commission will proceed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, please accept my apologies for coming late. I was chairing another meeting.
asked the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation:- (a) whether she is aware that the Municipal Council of Kisumu lacks capacity to operate Ober Kamoth Health Centre to optimum levels due to its inability to hire sufficient number of staff, equipment and medical supplies; and, (b) what steps the Ministry is taking to either alleviate the shortcomings or take over the running of the facility to make it offer adequate health services to residents of the sorrounding areas.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, following the principle of collective responsibility in the Cabinet, I beg to answer this Question for and on behalf of the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) No, I am not aware that the Municipal Council of Kisumu lacks capacity to operate the Ober Kamoth Health Centre. However, I am aware that my Ministry has seconded to the facility staff as follows:- One Kenya registered community health nurse; two Kenya enrolled community health nurses; two community health extension workers, and one VCT counselor through Capacity Kenya Project. (b) The Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation has no immediate plans to take over the facility since it is the property of the Municipal Council of Kisumu and such a request has not been submitted to my office.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Assistant Minister is ordinarily very diligent in his duties, but I am very disappointed this morning because Ober Kamoth Health Centre is the only health centre in that part of my constituency that serves members of the public. As I speak now before this House not even paracetamol is available at the hospital. Two months ago, power was disconnected from the health centre and I had to personally pay to have it re-connected, but I wish to thank the Ministry for seconding officers to the facility. For that, I am happy. However, as I speak, the hospital is being under-utilised. It cannot serve its purpose. There are no drugs. Power will be disconnected again very soon. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that they take over the running of the health centre since the Council is not willing to release it to them?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, whereas I appreciate the concerns of the hon. Member, who is my good friend, I would like to state categorically that the facility is under the Ministry of Local Government. We cannot just take it over. The request must, first, be made through their relevant committees and have it forwarded to my Ministry. On the issue of supply of medicines, I acknowledge that the facility has not been registered with the Kenya Medical Supplies Agency (KEMSA). I urge the hon. Member to ask his people to register it, so that it can draw medical supplies from the pool. We have a system where all registered health facilities draw medical supplies from a pool. Once the facility is registered, supplies will be made to it.
Yes, hon. Shakeel.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg your indulgence. I was the mayor of that city. So, you can probably give me a little time to explain.
Not to explain but to ask a question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to confirm that the City of Kisumu does not have the capacity to operate Ober Kamoth Health Centre. While I was the mayor, we tried. It was taken over.
Order! Order, Mr. Shakeel! Can I know whether you are answering or asking a question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am going to ask a question. I just wanted to confirm first. All the local authorities in this country have no health
Order! Order, hon. Shakeel! I am going to disallow you from further proceeding if you are not going to ask a question. The responsibility of answering questions and giving policy statements belongs to the Government, unless you are seeking to become a Member of the Front Bench in order to answer the question by the hon. Member. So, please, ask a question, if you wish. If you do not want to ask a question, desist from seeking the attention of the Chair.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your guidance. When is the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation going to take over the health centre, as per the listed policy?
Very good! Yes, Minister.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, even before a child walks, he must crawl. It is for this facility to initiate the process. We cannot take over the facility if a request to that effect is not made by the relevant authorities.
What is your point of order, hon. Shakeel?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is not answering the question. We are not asking whether we can make a request. It is a policy of the Ministry of Health to take over all public health facilities.
Order! Order! He is telling you to initiate the process.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, protect me from this heckler.
Order! Order, hon. Shakeel! You must withdraw your statement about being protected from a heckler, if you want the protection of the Chair.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I withdraw.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is well aware that the local authorities only run health centres upon being licensed by the Ministry of Health. If a local authority is not able to run a facility due to inability to do so, it is within the authority of the Ministry of Health to run the facility. So, he cannot say that the Ministry must be requested to take over the health centre. It is the Ministry of Health which gave the franchise to the local authority. If the local authority is not able to run the facility, the Ministry should take back the franchise.
Order, hon. Shakeel! You stood on a point of order but the Chair is not satisfied that what you have raised is a valid point of order. So, Assistant Minister, you may continue with your answer.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has never been the policy of my Ministry to take over facilities from local authorities. The Ministry of Local Government also has the capacity to operate health facilities. However, if the Municipal Council of Kisumu feels that it does not have the capacity to run the health centre, there is a process which must be followed to the letter.
Yes, hon. David Njuguna.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for responding to the plight of this facility by seconding personnel. Could he also, as an interim measure, consider sending equipment to facilitate the health centre to give better services to the people?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to confirm to this House that we are in the process of procuring equipment not only for this facility in Kisumu but also for other medical facilities countrywide. Eighty per cent of the health facilities that have been put up under the Economic Stimulus Programme have already been supplied with equipment and personnel.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his answer, the Assistant Minister said that in order for a health facility to get services from KEMSA, it must be registered.
Hon. Shabir, what is your point of order? It really has to be a point of order.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House by saying that his Ministry does not give licences to local authorities to run health centres? That is really what he is saying. Is he also in order to continue saying that a local authority must apply to his Ministry in order for his Ministry to take over a medical facility? Both of those statements are incorrect. It is in law. So, is he in order to say what he has said?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wonder which law the hon. Member is referring to. The law is very clear that regarding facilities under the Ministry of Local Government, the only thing we can do, as the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation, is seconding our personnel. The facilities procure their own medication. However, if they are registered with KEMSA, they get medical supplies from my Ministry. So, there is no law which allows us to take over the running of such facilities without due process being followed.
Continue, hon. Letimalo.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that the Assistant Minister said that in order for a health facility to get medical supplies from KEMSA, it has to be registered. We have got several health facilities which have been constructed through either the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) or other organisations. What is the registration process like, so that once health facilities are constructed, they do not lie idle since their services are required? What is the process involved? Who is supposed to initiate the process of registering health facilities?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is a very genuine question. Firstly, the completed health facility must be registered by the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation, after which it will be gazetted by the Attorney-General. Once it is gazetted, we can send the registration certificate to KEMSA for the facility to be registered there too, so that it can be among the facilities within its pool. So, distribution of medical supplies is done as per the registration within the pool.
Ask the final question on this one, Mr. Olago.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to commend the Assistant Minister. Considering the fact that he is not a substantive Assistant Minister for
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish the hon. Member, who is my friend, had followed the due process yesterday. By today, the health facility would be receiving medical supplies from KEMSA.
With regard to Question No. 1753, I have been informed that the hon. Member and the Minister have agreed that it be deferred and I am, therefore, deferring it to two weeks from today.
Next Order! This is Business appearing under Order No.7. Are there any Statements due this morning before I come to requests? Yes, Mr. Mwakwere.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while on a point of order, the Member of Parliament for Kisumu Town, hon. John Olago, sought a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources about the state of water hyacinth in Winam Gulf and what the Ministry was doing to remove it. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the most recent survey that may give the current indication of the status of the infestation and distribution of water hyacinth was conducted in December 2010. I think we should give that plant a local name. However, the level of infestation and distribution has been said to be spatial and temporal. I have tabulated the status of infestation and distribution of water hyacinth within Winam Gulf in Annex 1, which I shall table. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Winam Gulf and associated bays are vulnerable to infestation by water hyacinth because they are shielded from open waters of Lake Victoria. Water hyacinth infestation is a symptom of broader watershed management and pollution problems. These are brought about by, amongst others:-
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Ministerial Statement was sought as a result of the fact that bilateral funding to LEVMP has been misused on several occasions. Despite the complaints of Members of Parliament from around Winam Gulf – what used to be called Kavirondo Gulf - the programme still continues to misuse the funds to the extent that when hon. Orege asked in February before this House why the leadership in the local areas had not been involved, hon. Kajembe, the very able Assistant Minister--- Allow me to read from the HANSARD the response of hon. Kajembe to the concerns of the hon. Members. He said as follows:- “Wabunge wamelalamika kwa kusema zile kamati zingine hazikuwajulisha. Lakini sasa, mimi kama Waziri Msaidizi, nasema kwamba wakati huu, pesa hii ikija, badala ya Waheshimiwa Wabunge kuwachwa nje ya kamati, Wabunge watawakilishwa kikamilifu. Nimetoa amri hiyo, Bw. Spika na itafuatwa.” Then he went on to say:- “Ninakubaliana nao kwamba hawakushirikishwa wakati wa kutumika kwa pesa hizo. Hawakushirikishwa katika utendaji wa kazi hii. Lakini sasa ninawaahidi mimi mwenyewe kwamba wakati huu pesa zikiingia, nitawaita pamoja na tutawashirikisha. Msiwe na shaka juu ya jambo hili”. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, then the money came. This time LVEMP decided not to follow procurement procedures and tendered for some company from Nairobi and we complained. As a result LVEMP incited some members of the public to hold demos, indicating that Members of Parliament from around the gulf had stopped the funds from being used. This is the thrust of the matter. What are you doing to ensure that the funds allocated to LVEMP are used openly and transparently?
Minister, take notes. We will take two more and then you can answer all of them.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. In the Minister’s response, he has given indication of the effects of the water hyacinth and has forgotten to indicate that it has now caused loss of lives, even as recent as last month. There were fishermen who were marooned as they could not move out; they died as a consequence of that. Government rescue efforts were too slow for the fishermen. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have, indeed, been asked several questions by the fishermen around Lambwe and Homa Bay areas. Right now, the lake is completely chocked. There is no activity that is going on by persons who purely undertake fishing as their main stay. Could the Minister clarify whether they have undertaken a comprehensive study on how to deal with water hyacinth menace? Right now, the response appears to be very reactionary? Could the Minister, therefore, confirm in his response if they have considered bio-control methods, including using species such as weevils and Argentine Water Hyacinth moth that were used in States like Louisiana and Mississippi in the US? Could he tell us whether the Government has looked, very comprehensively, into dealing with this menace?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in this issue. I want to thank the Minister for a very comprehensive Statement. However, LVEMP has been in operation for over 20 years in respect of water hyacinth. LVEMP in Uganda is working very efficiently. LVEMP funded by DANIDA in Tanzania is working very efficiently. The problems of water hyacinth are not to the same extent in both of these countries. Uganda started the weevil project very much earlier. Why is it that LVEMP-Kenya has been bedeviled by all sorts of mismanagement and lack of transparency? They buy four-wheel drive vehicles and go round. Eighty per cent of the money that they say they receive goes to workshops and organizing demonstrations.
, we, as Members of Parliament, are leaders. We only requested, and the Assistant Minister confirmed it, that we should be consulted. However, LVEMP and other groups held demonstrations against both Mr. Olago and me due to misinformation that we demanded that this money goes to the CDF. We would like a confirmation from you that none of the money that is for LVEMP has ever gone to the CDF of any Member of Parliament. Furthermore, please---
One clarification at a time, please. That is our rule.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with due respect to the Minister, Mr. Mwakwere, my former Mathematics teacher, he spoke for almost five minutes with only one line indicating the action he is going to take to eradicate water hyacinth on Lake Victoria. I do not know where his scientists come from and why they do not understand that hyacinth is growing in the gulf area because of siltation of rivers that bring in dirt from the highlands, and the gulf is not breathing. The gulf is not breathing because of the Mbita Cause way. If the Mbita Cause way is not acted upon now, we will continue to get bad water in the gulf that is not useful to the residents of the Nyanza region. I would like to ask the Minister to kindly go back and constitute a proper research institution that can
Eng. Rege, you have already made a request. Please, do not turn it into a debate.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, two of my constituents died just this month.
That is no justification for converting this into a debate. You can ask it in the form of a clarification.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Minister indicate when the hyacinth on the gulf will be eradicated?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like a clarification, now that it is quite obvious that this programme has failed because it has been there for many years; funding has been given but nothing has improved. What is the Minister doing to dismiss the people in charge and institute a new body of managers to handle the problem?
Let us have Mr. David Njuguna and then the Minister will respond.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, emanating from the Statement offered by the Minister, could he indicate to this House the level of co- operation our country is receiving from the neighbouring countries, namely Tanzania and Uganda, in order to eradicate this weed threat?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is every reason to believe that this is a very serious problem, and needs not just the intervention of the Ministry and the institutions that have been put in place, but also the intervention of all of us, particularly the leadership that we depend on to get things done around the lake. I fully agree with Mr. Olago’s observation that not much has been achieved in our initiatives towards the removal or elimination of the water hyacinth in the basins, particularly the Winam Basin and other basins of Lake Victoria. However, this does not mean that we have not been doing our very best to eliminate the weed. It just confirms that we need to come up with other innovations, or even take note of what is being done elsewhere, where there is probably greater success, and apply the same methods in our endeavour to succeed. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to make a further comment or suggestion; that in order for us to be reading from the same script, I personally will go to Kisumu to join my colleague legislators for a tour of the areas that have the weed and meet other leaders. I believe together we will come up with a strategy that will, hopefully, give us a lasting solution. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the question of loss of lives, this is truly regretted. But it all amounts to the same thing; that we have not succeeded in removing the weed. Probably, there could be even more lives lost, God forbid, but this should be sorted out in one form or the other once we get together as leaders. I would recommend that we meet within the next four weeks. I know that we are very busy, but we should set aside a day when we shall all be together in Winam Gulf and other areas around the lake which are affected by the weeds.
Mr. Minister, two important issues were brought up by both hon. Shakeel and hon. John Olago regarding a specific undertaking given by your Assistant Minister with regard to involvement of hon. Members when the money was made available, but this was not honoured. The Chair appreciates that you have offered to visit the area with the hon. Members.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir,
Order, hon. Shakeel! If you insist on running the affairs of the House through points of order which are not coming in the manner provided for, then I will not allow it! Although I have several other requests for statements to be made, let us hear Mr. Haji.
Yes, hon. Yusuf Haji?
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to make this personal statement following a statement made by the hon. member for Galole, Mr. Dhadho Godhana on Thursday, 13th September, 2012, in which he mentioned me allegedly for discussing his conduct on the Floor of the House. In his statement, hon. Godhana alleged that I portrayed him as a murderer. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the HANSARD of Thursday, 23rd August, 2012, will bear me witness that I never referred to the hon. Member in that context. During my statement on the material day, I highlighted the happenings in Tana Delta where the Pokomo and the Orma communities were engaged in ethnic conflict. At that juncture, one hon. Member stood up on a point of order saying that hon. Godhana was bragging in the corridors of Parliament that he will never attend a meeting chaired by myself as the Acting Minister for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. He also said this to my Permanent Secretary. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 23rd August, 2012, in my capacity as the Acting Minister for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, I called a meeting of leaders and Members of Parliament from Tana, Garissa and Mandera counties. True to the word, hon. Godhana never attended the meeting. In response to the hon. Member who said that he had heard hon. Godhana bragging on the corridors of Parliament, I said “Yes, indeed, I called a meeting for Members of Parliament from the region and one Assistant Minister refused to attend the meeting and is still bragging on the corridors of Parliament.” It is at this juncture that several Members of Parliament demanded that I mention who the Assistant Minister was and that is how I said it was hon. Godhana. I then said that I will ask the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) to investigate him.
Any other Statement?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to deliver a Ministerial Statement which was sought by several hon. Members, including Mr. Ethuro, Mr. Duale and Dr. Khalwale. The Statement relates to the resettlement of Internally Displaced Persons in the country. Specifically the hon. Members wanted to---
Order! Mr. Ethuro, you are the Chairman of the Committee and I see that, that is the business that is coming under the Order following this Order. Is the Ministerial Statement related to that and can it come within the debate on the Bill? The Bill is actually coming after this. Mr. Ethuro, what do you have to say, as the Chair of the Committee?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is slightly different. This concerns the most recent displacements that have taken place.
So, it is not related?
It is related in the sense that it is about Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs), but it is different in terms of it being the Mau matter.
Then could it not be more conveniently dealt with under the next Order?
In fact, the next Order is a Bill, but this is a Ministerial Statement. This information will inform the debate on the Bill; so, it is good if it comes before the debate begins.
That information can come within the context of the debate that will follow after this.
Mr. Gabbow, I have received guidance and the way we will deal with it is that we will provide you with the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Government during that debate, so that you have the fullest time to issue not only that Ministerial Statement but
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Just a moment, Mr. Ethuro, let me hear what the Assistant Minister has to say with regard to that? Are you comfortable with that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, these are two different issues. Could you allow me to just highlight some of the issues which I want to discuss?
You may proceed; it is your right.
Thank you. One of the clarifications sought by the hon. Members was whether a Cabinet Minister, two Assistant Ministers and one Backbencher from the Mau Forest Evictees Resettlement Committee have truly resigned from the Committee and the circumstances that led to their resignation. This cannot be found in the Bill. The second thing that they sought was whether the Ministry could give the current state of IDPs resettlement. I will table all the documents relating to that; it is a huge document and I do not need to go through it. I want to answer the first question, that the resettlement programme includes the Mau Forest Evictees, and is managed by a three-tier committee, namely the Cabinet Committee comprising of Ministers for finance, special programmes lands and agriculture. The Permanent Secretaries in these Ministries also sit in the committee. It is chaired by the Head of the Public Service. There is also a technical committee, or task force, comprising of officers from member Ministries. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of any Member from the above committee who has resigned, nor the circumstances that may have led to the resignation. The Ministry has never been advised of the incorporation of any other committee or members that deal with IDPs. On the state of IDPs, out of the targeted population of 9,571 households of 2007 Post-Election Violence victims, 7,724 households have been resettled on 15,152.6 acres of land purchased by the Government, and 1,404 acres donated by the Municipal Council of Lodwar and the County Council of Turkana, leaving a balance of 1,847 households. Land required to resettle these households is about 5,859 acres. Of this, 5,312 acres of land are undergoing procurement processes. I do not want really to go through all these, but I will table a document indicating where the land is and what the status is; whether it is still being procured or it has a problem. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to table the list of parcels of land that the Government has purchased, the ones under procurement and parcels with pending issues. I also wish to clarify that the Ministry was only mandated to purchase land for resettlement of IDPs in camps, which did not include the integrated IDPs. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding the victims of clashes in Tana River, Mandera, Wajir, Turkana, Baringo, Samburu and Marsabit counties, the Government has been providing humanitarian assistance, which includes food and non- food items. I wish also to table a list of items that the Ministry has distributed to the clash
Are there any requests for clarifications on that Statement? Yes, hon. Ethuro!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I sought this Statement on the specifics of Mau resettlement and also in light of the clashes that have been going on, culminating in the tragic losses in Tana Delta. So, this was specific and must not be tied to the next Order, which is a Bill. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for answering the question, although he has ambushed me and the rest of us. This is because last week they were at pains to demonstrate that it would be answered on Thursday this week. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Members of this House, who are also Members of that Committee on Mau, went public in our Press Center here and said that they had left that Committee. The Assistant Minister is telling us that he is not aware. Secondly, he is claiming now that the Government has been assisting the victims, who have been displaced as a result of the clashes in the various counties of Tana River, Wajir and Garissa. We would like him to confirm that even Red Cross, a humanitarian organization, has been denied access to support the people in Tana Delta. We would like the Assistant Minister to be truthful to this House, because the Government has an obligation on issues of IDPs. He says: “We will resettle the IDPs before the next general elections if land is available.” That is conditional. Our request, as per the Report of the Select Committee on IDPs which was passed by this House, is that you must resettle all the IDPs. Even the Government itself has been giving those elastic deadlines. But this House has passed a resolution that all the IDPs should have been resettled by May, 2012. At least, we gave up to December. The Government must give a specific timeframe because this is part of Agenda Four.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have been promised that this issue of IDPs will be sorted once and for all, since 2008. I have been in the forefront fighting for this. The Assistant Minister has said that all IDPs will be resettled before the end of this year, if land will be available. I think that the Government is taking Kenyans for a ride and it is high time it came out clearly and said whether these Kenyans have a right to be settled like any other Kenyans or they are just playing politics, so that they buy time until we go for the election. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister clarify this issue of the caveat on Mau, that they have been talking about? Everytime they go there,
Now you are debating. Hon. Langat!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this issue of Mau Forest evictees has been dragging for a very long time. It is unfortunate that the Government evicts people very fast and then it takes three years to resettle them. Recently, the Prime Minister gave---
Seek your clarification, please.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he has been giving a two-week timeline for resettlement of the Mau evictees. Could the Assistant Minister confirm whether that is an official Government position or political statement meant to appease our people?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, listening to this Statement, I am really very upset. The Assistant Minister has said that this programme did not involve integrated refugees. The people of Kisii suffered from post-election violence more than any other group. They are a burden to our society, knowing how much land we have. Why are they left out of this programme? That is the first question. Secondly, what programme---
The rules are clear. You choose the one you want to ask.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what programme does the Government have to resettle the integrated refugees, specifically from Bonchari and Kisii in general?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is really shocking that the Ministry and the Government continue to take this matter of resettling the Mau Evictees less seriously. We can see it from the Statement and from the way they have downgraded it to a mere answer from somebody who does not quite understand the issue.
Order, Mr. Ruto! You cannot allege that the Assistant Minister does not understand what he is doing when he is giving you a Statement on the Floor of the House. You must withdraw that aspect that he does not know what he is doing.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think he knows and I now withdraw the fact that he does not know; now he knows. The question of Mau resettlement is a very serious matter and you can see the Government is saying that they will resettle people when land is available, but there is a caveat. You cannot buy any land to resettle them yet they are telling us when land becomes available and then they stop the possible purchase of land. It is a contradiction in terms. These people are suffering, the Government evicted them and there was a feeling that they should be given money to go and buy land wherever they can get it. Are they making arrangement to avail this money? Can anybody go and look for land na yeye mwenyewe anunue – he himself buys
That should be the last one.
Millie is part of the problem.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when the Assistant Minister stood up, he said that the Government is doing what it can.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You heard Mr. Ruto say on record that “Millie is part of the problem.” I do not know if I am part of the problem by sitting next to him and reminding him of parliamentary procedures. Could he, please, withdraw? I am not a problem in the Mau. He is more of a problem because of his policy of atiechi, so he should be the one with the problem.
But according to the rules, you must also have risen immediately when he said that and not after.
I did, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Very well. Mr. Ruto, I do not want to debate. If you said that, you withdraw without further debate on it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I said Millie is---
Did you or did you not say that Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona is part of the problem?
I did not say!
You said it!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the party she is in; it is ODM and the Prime Minister.
Did you or did you not say that Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona is part of the problem?
He said it!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did; I said it and I withdraw and apologize to Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his Statement, the Assistant Minister has said that he is doing what he can to assist the IDPs from the Tana Delta, Wajir and other places. My clarification is with regard to the Tana Delta IDPs. In the neighbouring counties of Lamu and Kilifi, our people from the Tana Delta from both communities that have been affected have taken refuge in these areas. What is the Government doing about those IDPs in Magarini and Lamu?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to contribute to what the Assistant Minister said by asking him what the Government is doing given the fact that it is causing a lot of suffering. Apart from the suffering, these IDPs are unproductive and idle. They could easily be productive people who could be contributing to improving their lives and also our economy yet it has taken so many years for the Government to resettle them. I want to give him the benefit of doubt - that they can do so between now and December? Is he being realistic by giving us that short kind of timeline?
Although he did not say December; he said between now and the next election. He was quite careful on what he said.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, but even then, next year is just
We will take the last one now from Mrs. Shebesh before the Assistant Minister answers.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement was hinging on the resignation of four or five Members of Parliament, I am not wrong, which was supposed to show a sign of political goodwill. We know that we are going to a General Elections and as a Ministry losing political goodwill on this issue of the Mau evictees at the point when we are going to an election is asking for tension and uncertainty around the area where the Mau evictees are and especially around the area where the Members of Parliament come from. Does the Ministry and by extension the Government realize that when you start losing political goodwill like resignation of those members of the committee, that they are actually showing that they have failed and that as we are going towards an election they are not in charge?
Mr. Gabbow, you may now respond to those issues that have been canvassed by hon. Members.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a difference between the other committee and those members who sit in the committee. The members who resigned, and I am not sure whether they have resigned, were the members from the local community leadership at the ground in the Mau Forest evictee region. Those are other committees and so I want us to separate between the local committee and the Government committee. So those are two things. I totally agree with you that we need that political goodwill and I am sure the Ministry is handling that to make sure that we are able to convince the other committee to continue giving support to the Ministry. The status of most of the land to resettle the IDPs is at an advanced stage. For example---
Mr. Assistant Minister, the question was how you get land if you have placed a caveat. That was the issue that you need to address.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can assure you because the committee comprises the Minister for Land, he will and he has said and that is the Government’s position that a caveat will be removed from that land so that we can purchase it. Most of the lands are almost ready. If you can give me a minute, for example, we have 11 parcels of land; one in Molo South, Ikumbi Block 1 and 2; Nakuru Longonot Block 2; Trans Nzoia, Cherengany and Nakuru Boron. The status is that money has already been paid about Kshs239 million for 1,309 acres and they are only awaiting survey. So this will be done immediately and I can assure you that you can hold this Ministry by its word that we will resettle the post-election violence victims and the forest evictees before---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You heard the Assistant Minister ask for a minute and telling us that we can hold this Ministry to account on their word. Is he in order to mislead this House and the country? This Assistant Minister committed to resettlement before December last year. That was the Assistant Minister’s word! He wants us to take more words from him; he wants more time for people who are still in camps and have no homes when he is about to conclude his term as an Assistant Minister in a very comfortable zone.
Mr. Ethuro, you are the Chair of the Committee. He is talking about immediately. Let him complete and say when and then you can revisit the issue after the number of weeks because he talks about immediately.
Thank you for that clarification. I would like to table the documents showing the following: 1. Land purchased for forest evictees, a total of 1,301.76 hectares costing Kshs239,691. This is achievable before the next General Election. 2. Land purchases for IDPs is at various stages. We have 5,312 acres. We have shown where the land is located, remarks and the stage where this is.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is just telling us about 1,000 acres or hectares. How many acres per family? How does 1,000 acres satisfy 3,700 Mau evictees? Will they be living in a quarter of an acre or 0.01 of an acre?
Perhaps you can take a look at the documents that he has tabled and then you can revisit that issue.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is what we have currently and what we have purchased. We are not saying that all of them will benefit from that piece of land. However, I have assured you that before the General Election, we will be able to achieve our target. I also have a document on land purchased by the Government for the resettlement of IDPs. It is a 13-page report which I wish to table. On the issue of the Red Cross in Tana River, currently, the Ministry is distributing relief food and non-food items to various populations and I have done a report for that touching on Wajir, Tana River, Baringo Central, Marigat, Samburu, Turkana and Marakwet. I would like to table them too. You understand that there is an Act of Parliament on Red Cross. It, therefore, does not come under the Ministry of State for Special Programmes. If there are issues with the Red Cross, say, why they are not allowed there, I think this Ministry is not responsible for it. The Red Cross does not report to my Ministry. PROTECTION TO MR. MATTHEW LOGULALE
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to ask for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security regarding the circumstances in which on the night of 13th September, 2012; that is, Thursday, last week the house of Mr. Matthew Logulale, a Governor aspirant for NARC Kenya in Turkana County was torched and his bedroom was burnt down and his properties destroyed. I would like to know how far the investigations have gone. Have there been any arrests and any arraignment of suspects in court? What is the Minister doing to stop such politically motivated attacks not only on this aspirant, but also on other aspirants in the country? In other words, what is he doing to nip this problem in the bud as we approach the elections? Has the Minister provided security to this particular aspirant who is now targeted and his family? Will the Government offer humanitarian support to this person like the Government has been doing in other situations where we
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to support hon. Karua. Only last Saturday, I visited the house of the aspirant. Knowing the kind of environment in which we operate in northern Kenya where there are too many illegal guns, we are really worried about violence towards the general election. I think it is important that the police come clear on the motive of this particular action. Secondly, if it is turning to be political, the other State organs such as the IEBC and the National Cohesion and Integration Commission must try to address this particular problem.
Hon. Beth Mugo, will you stand in for your colleagues here?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I propose that the Statement be delivered next week on Wednesday.
Is that okay with you, Ms. Karua?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would have preferred Tuesday, but I will leave it to the Chair.
We have deferred a lot of business to Tuesday next week. So, let us make it on Wednesday afternoon. What is your point of order, Mr. Kabogo? INSECURITY IN GATUNDU AND RUIRU
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence. On 6th September, 2012 I requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security regarding the disappearance of a matatu operator in Gatundu. The Speaker ordered that the Statement be given on Wednesday last week, but it was not. I seek your assistance that the Statement be issued this afternoon or latest Tuesday in the afternoon.
I wish we could have managed to contact one of the Ministers so that we get a definite answer, but nevertheless, Mrs. Mugo, would you be in a position to have your colleague deliver this Statement this afternoon or tomorrow? It was requested, I think, more than two weeks ago. When can this be done?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know exactly why the Minister has not been able to give it up to now. Should we say next week?
Since you do not know I would direct that it be given tomorrow afternoon.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, much obliged.
Hon. Beth Mugo, please, inform the Minister that it is tomorrow afternoon. The Statement has been pending for a long time. At least we need an explanation from him tomorrow in the afternoon. Next Order!
Hon. Members, with regard to the business appearing on Order No.8, I understand that a number of amendments have not yet been processed. Hon. Members, you are reminded that there are quite a number of issues pending under the Private Members’ Bills because amendments have not been submitted to the Office of the Clerk. Please, if you have any amendments on any of the pending Bills from the Private Members’, the Clerk’s Office is requesting that this is submitted by Monday at the close of business so that they can be included in the order of business for next Wednesday. Please note that. The business appearing on Order No.8 will be deferred until next Wednesday.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Internally Displaced Persons Bill, Bill No.21 of 2012, be now read a Second Time. This House formed a Select Committee on the IDPs to look into the issues of immediate humanitarian assistance to the IDPs and also to come up with a Bill that will look into this problem. I am happy that we have delivered as a House and I have the pleasure of moving this particular Bill. This week, we will be celebrating the International Peace Day on Friday, 21st September, 2012, in Eldoret, for our case in Kenya. As we celebrate this day, I am happy that this Bill is also coming this week. This Bill has two particular objects. The first one is to provide for the prevention, protection and assistance to the IDPs. The IDPs in this Bill are defined beyond just the post-election violence that everybody seems to be familiar with. We have also expanded the definition of the IDP to include victims of clashes, natural disasters and even where the State may have to force displacements for purposes of large-scale development projects. The second objective of the Bill is to give effect to certain instruments and Treaties that the Government has committed itself to. One is the Great Lakes Protocol on the Protection and Assistance to Internally Displaced Persons and the United Nations Guiding Principles on Internal Displacements. The Bill is a small one. It has about 24 clauses and there are five parts. I just want to highlight a few of the things that the Bill is looking into. First, is to give a definition of the IDPs. The second one is to create organs that will manage this process. It must be recalled that at the height of the post-election violence, the State found itself in the most embarrassing position where it was not prepared for any kind of disaster. It was not prepared for the victims of such disasters. Any country and Government worth its name
Hon. Millie Odhiambo, of course, you will be able to second and I think hon. Ekwe Ethuro has been able to say good things about you. Proceed!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank hon. Ekwe Ethuro for those beautiful remarks, especially for the women Nominated Member of Parliament and recognizing the work that we have done in this Tenth Parliament. I am sure it will go down in history. But I also want to thank him because he is one of our honorary Members of Kenya Women Parliamentary Association. He has supported us. Indeed, as women Parliamentarians when we had a fundraiser for women, we all came out in support for him, which is very rare. But we have done that because he has really supported women’s agenda. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to also congratulate the hon. Member - He was our Chair in this Committee - for a good work that he has done for the internally displaced persons in this country. The IDP issue, though it actually picked in 2007, has been a problem in this country for more than 20 years. I will give an example of Talai Community who were displaced from Nandi and were taken to Gwassi Hills who are my neighbours. Today, they speak both Suba and Kalenjin language as well. They were taken back to their community, but they are still displaced within their community. So, this Bill is very timely because it does not only look at the issue of IDPs of 2007, but before that. It also anticipates any instance of displacement in the future, which, God forbid should happen.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that hon. Martha is very eager to speak but I will just summarize in a minute.
Are you Mabwana?
Proceed, hon. Mabona. Are you done with your seconding?
I am not done, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is an hon. Member here who is asking me whether I am Mabwana or not. I am not “Mabwana” but “Mabona”.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to say that the protocols that we have annexed as schedules, we should, as much as possible integrate their contents within the body of the main Bill because, again, even though the schedules are usually part of the Bill we have a tendency, as Kenyans, to treat them as inferior. So, unless we have them within the main body, it may not be very helpful. I have certain suggestions for amendments within the clauses but because I sit in the Committee, I will not talk about them except for Clause 12. I will leave the rest to the Committee so that we save on time and give the other Members a chance to speak on some of them. However, I want to comment on Clause 12. We need to include the Commission on Gender, the Secretary for Children Affairs and somebody from the National Council for Persons with Disability in the Committee to be set up because these are the groups that are normally affected in case of displacement. With those few remarks, I second the Bill.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise in support of this Bill. I want to begin by congratulating the Mover and his entire Committee for this very thorough and good piece of legislation which they are proposing to the House.
Very well, hon. Martha. Proceed, hon. Gabbow.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to move the following amendments to the Bill---
Assistant Minister, I am guided very well by our Clerk-at-the-Table. What you can do is to contribute to debate, just like any other hon. Member, and then you move those amendments during the Committee Stage. I also recommend that you see the relevant Departmental Committee, so that you can come up with amendments which are agreeable to both you and them, so that we can move faster. So, if you wish to contribute and share the particular sentiments that you have, you can take the opportunity and do so. Contribute just like any other hon. Member. Is that what you want to do?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your guidance. I would like other hon. Members to continue contributing to debate. I can make my contributions at a later stage.
What is your point of order, hon. Ethuro?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Assistant Minister to assume the role of the Member for Wajir North when, for purposes of this Bill, he is the Minister responsible?
Order, hon. Ekwe Ethuro! What is the Assistant Minister doing? Could you make it more clearer for all of us? What is he assuming?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to bring to your attention the fact that hon. Gabbow is not sitting here only in his private capacity, as the Member for Wajir North. Even given where he is seated, on the Front Row; he is seated as the Assistant Minister in the Ministry responsible for this Bill. So, he must give the official Government response to the matters raised by hon. Members during debate, and not his personal opinions.
Hon. Ethuro, hon. Gabbow is here as Minister and Member of Parliament. So, what he is doing is really correct. So, we will go to hon. David Njuguna.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me start by thanking the Chairman of the Departmental Committee responsible for this Bill, hon. Ekwe Ethuro, for
Order, hon. Njuguna! I have about seven or eight requests from hon. Members who are waiting to contribute. We have a lot of business before us. If it is agreeable with hon. Members, could we reduce contribution time to three minutes?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
All right. I think that is carried. So, please, you have a minute to make your remarks.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, let me say that this Bill will now settle all those IDPs. As we had suggested, the committee to manage their affairs will be put in place. It will be expected to attract donations and funds from international partners. We expect the committee to utilize those funds well. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, finally, let me urge the Government to ensure that the remaining IDPs are settled as soon as possible. With those few remarks, I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Bill and particularly, congratulate this Committee - although I am a member - because not all select committees end up publishing a Bill. So, it is quite commendable that after going around the country looking at the issue of IDPs, the Committee was able to come up with such a Bill. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Bill is very good because it recognizes the current dispensation of a central Government and county governments. Under Part III on Administration, it places legitimate responsibility of IDPs on the Government. But it also says that the county governments shall also be responsible for administrative implementation of the provisions of the Bill in respective counties. In this respect then, all parts of the Government have taken responsibility.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise in support of this Bill. I am especially happy to note that the Bill gives the Government absolute responsibility with regard to ensuring prevention and also taking care of refugees, including integrated refugees, who have been discriminated against by previous programmes. I would have, however, like to see some punishment meted out to those who pretend to be refugees and flock into camps just to take advantage of the suffering of the genuine refugees and create a burden for the State. This means the genuine refugees do not benefit as they should. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to the Clause 14, I would recommend that the burden of funding this be squarely given to the budgeting process, so that it can be funded by the Government and Parliament. This is in line with the Constitution in terms of taking care of all people who are not able to take care of themselves at any one particular time. In conclusion, I want to thank the Committee for doing this good job, and Mr. Ethuro for bringing this Bill to Parliament. Let me add that the people of Kisii are very concerned about the lack of consideration of our integrated refugees. I would urge the Government to do something about it, as a matter of urgency. I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill and to congratulate the Mover for a well documented proposal for legislation. It will make systems work in order for us to be accountable as the Government; the Government includes this arm. It is the best way to get out of the mess; we have had of displacement of many caused by conflicts between communities or political competition that results in disagreements. Getting a system that will bring accountability in finance is very critical. This is because you know the Central Government has used a lot of money in the IDPs’ resettlement programme. However, that money may not have been directed into the benefits of the IDPs because of lack of accountability and systems. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is also compliance with issues of the Constitution. This piece of legislation is proposing that we have the responsibility of creating awareness and having a campaign, so that it is understood. In this country, there are very many IDPs who feel they are not accepted by the hosting communities where they live. We need to have a campaign, so that people can be sensitive and appreciate that wherever these IDPs exist they are entitled to service in the educational amenities and preferential treatment to children who are either orphaned, or whose parents have been displaced and are, therefore, economically challenged. I support this because it will give a solution that is legal and predictable. There are institutions like the national committee and the local committees that take responsibility.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) Bill, Bill No. 21 of 2012. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion because, first of all, it is a shame to this Government that for the last four-and-a-half years, there are some people who were misplaced because of politics and, up to date, they are still living in IDP camps. It is a pity that the Government is not serious about resettling them. So, this particular Bill will, therefore, address some of the challenges and difficulties facing these Kenyans who are living in pathetic situations. It is only this Government which can solve their problems. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Kibwezi Constituency, we have a lot of people who were moved from Kyulu Hills. They are scattered all over the constituency. Most of them live at a place called Makindu. They have been living in five camps for the last 20 years. They have been living there in a pathetic condition. They do not have clean water, shelter, medical care, land of their own or basic necessities. This particular Bill will even address the plight of our people in Kibwezi to make sure that they are resettled. We want the Government to give them land which they can call their own so that they can continue living like any other Kenyans in this country. So, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill because it is timely and it will take care of other parts of the country to make sure that our people are living in peace. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, I want to congratulate the Mover and the Committee. Although they were not able to visit the IDPs in Kirinyaga Central Constituency, I beg to support this Bill. I particularly support Clause 3 which calls upon the Government to address all the IDPs in this country.
What is it, hon. Cheruiyot? Are you on a point of order?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Realizing that most of the speakers are contributing in favor of the Motion, could I be in order to call upon the Mover to reply?
Hon. Cheruiyot, let me get that feeling from the hon. Members. Hon. Members, should the Mover be called upon to reply?
Because of the interest of time, hon. Gabbow, would you like to respond on behalf of the Government for a minute? Please, could you allow hon. Gabbow to reply before we move to the Mover? Proceed, hon. Gabbow!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, may I congratulate the able hon. Member for Turkana Central and a pastoralist like me for considering to improve the plight of IDPs in this country. Clashes, like the pastoral clashes, have never been considered in these Bills. Today, we have a Bill before this House that is an all-inclusive. I am sure that this Bill will be a milestone in his career. We, as a Government, fully support it and we will make sure that it becomes an Act soonest time possible. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to reply
Yes, hon. Ethuro.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In the interest of time, I just want to thank each and every contributor for their overwhelming support. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.
Order! Hon. Ogindo, do you have something to say on a point of order? Proceed, hon. Ogindo, and then I will put the Question.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have consulted the Mover to donate a minute to me---
I think he is keeping his word. Proceed!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to support this Motion. It is time we got back only to the naturally displaced persons
Hon. Members, it is now time for the interruption of business. The House is, therefore, adjourned until this afternoon on 19th September, 2012, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 12.30 p.m.