Hon. Members, I have one communication to make. You will all recall that I delivered a communication from the Chair on Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, to the effect that the Kenya National Assembly in partnership with the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA) and as part of the Speaker’s Round Table, will be holding a two-day Conference at Leisure Lodge Resort, Mombasa, beginning on Friday, 23rd to Sunday, 25th November, 2012, for all Members of Parliament, representatives from both the public and private sectors. Due to other international and regional commitments for which the chief guest has to attend during the said period, it has become necessary to reschedule the conference to Monday, 17th going on to Tuesday, 18th December, 2012. Consequently, hon. Members travel arrangements will be rescheduled to Sunday, 16th December, 2012. Therefore, I am asking the indulgence and understanding of the House for the deferment of this conference. We also regret the inconvenience it may cause to our invited guests both from the public and private sector and we seek their understanding of the matter. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts Sessional Paper Number 4 on the National Pharmaceutical Policy laid on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 21st November, 2012.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that Ms. Rosemary Wariera Nduati is missing and had earlier complained of detention and mistreatment by her employer of phone number +966551782526 in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia? (b) What urgent measures is the Minister taking to ensure that she is traced, released from her exploitative employer’s custody and repatriated? (c) What is the Government doing to ensure that Kenyans living and working in the Middle East are safe from such dehumanizing occurrences?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to make an apology for not coming with this answer for the simple reason that as I speak with you, the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in Saudi Arabia. The information I have is that he has gone there to personally follow on this matter as he is doing other business. Presumably, he will give us a definite answer by next week on Tuesday without fail. The reason is that hon. Kabogo had made a particular request and needed certain substantiations which I made sure I requested the Permanent Secretary, who then decided to go. I believe he should come with a substantive answer on this matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very surprised by the answer from the Assistant Minister because I had a word with him a few minutes ago unless he has just found out that information; that he had no answer. He was asking me to understand his frustrations. Now, I doubt whether what he is telling the House can be factual or truth. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the last time this Question came to Parliament on 12th October, 2012, we did agree that I would accompany him to Saudi Arabia because I gave him the recording of a telephone call between me and the captive girl and the telephone number that I used to get to her and he said he will be able. What he told me in confidence is that he is frustrated by the Permanent Secretary who cannot even facilitate him to go and get this girl from Saudi Arabia. He even tells me further that he cannot even use a Government vehicle due to those frustrations. So, really, Mr. Speaker, Sir, he has frustrations from his Ministry, but he is not able to express himself. So, I would really urge you to help me here. This girl has been held captive in Saudi Arabia. This Question has been to the House eight times.
Mr. Assistant Minister, I would want your reaction to all those assertions by the hon. Member for Juja before I give a final direction.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. To be honest, I would like to reiterate that hon. Kabogo has said the truth in so far as the fact that I have been feeling very frustrated. I have been frustrated for the reason that, one, the Speaker actually ruled that we were supposed to have travelled, but it was not possible for the Ministry to facilitate us in terms of per diem, tickets and all that we needed for the team that was supposed to have travelled. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in terms of the frustrations, that is what I told him. But in terms of my vehicle, that was with a light touch. In terms of the issue as to whether I mentioned to hon. Kabogo, yes, I told him that my frustration was that I was not able to travel as we had discussed when you ruled on this matter. But as I was walking in, an officer called me and told me that the Permanent Secretary – and indeed he is not in the office – had travelled the day before yesterday on this matter as he is conducting his other business. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that if by Tuesday we do not have a precise answer on this issue, then I would come and tell the House that I am unable to solve the problem.
Fair enough! Hon. Member for Juja, I will not hear you again. But I want to give the following direction. I believe the Assistant Minister because I have formed the impression that he is completely honest. He has owned up to being frustrated, unfortunately by a person that ought to be his junior under normal administrative circumstances. So, he has my sympathy. Hon. Member for Juja, I will direct that this Question be deferred to Tuesday, next week at 2.30 p.m. I will also direct as follows. That this House does not act in vain. Since we comprise the second arm of Government--- After the Executive, it is the Legislature. I direct that in the event that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is unable to facilitate your travel, Assistant Minister, together with the hon. Member for Juja to Saudi Arabia, Parliament will do so because those resources are from Government coffers. That is my direction. I hope it does not get to that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am much obliged. I remember yesterday you also made a ruling that there were documents that I was to table. I managed to get the documents---
Just before we move to that, we want to wrap up this matter of Rosemary. I want to give the Floor to the hon. Member of Juja. Hon. Member for Juja, could you, please, stick to the subject?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate your ruling and I am happy with it. In addition, I just want to make a request through the Chair. As you know, we have said many things about Kenyans held in Saudi Arabia. I requested for a diplomatic passport to be able to go there, worried that with an ordinary passport, I will get into trouble. The same Permanent Secretary has refused, even after hon. Kajwang wrote to him, to either acknowledge to either give me a diplomatic passport for the purpose of travelling to Saudi Arabia. So, I do request the Chair to help me in the same line.
Fair enough! We will take that on board even in the directions that I have given; that if the Ministry fails to facilitate you to travel to Saudi Arabia, the Legislature will take up that matter and facilitate your travel.
Assistant Minister, we may now hear you on a different matter; not on the same.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Your office had requested that we table certain documents, which included the translations of the medical records from the post mortem of Madam Esther Muthoni Ngerege to the House. I was also expected to present the complete version of the translation from Arabic into English. I would like to table that translation. I would also like to table the English and the Arabic versions of the same for certainty. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second issue that was raised was as to whether we were able to bring back Madam Lillian Nyambura, who was a sister to Madam Esther Muthoni Ngerege. I personally had a telephone conversation with the Kenyan Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. He told me that he personally had spoken to Madam Lillian Nyambura and she said that because her sister had passed on, she was comfortable staying behind. She did not want to come back home and she was willing to speak to anybody, including the Member of Parliament, Capt. Clement Wambugu, to confirm the same. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Just table it; the hon. Member for Mathioya will have time to go through them. If need be, we will then list the Question on the Order Paper.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that means that with the tabling of this document, I would want yourself to, maybe, intervene and make a request that the hon. Member could ask the family to deliver a ‘no objection note’ to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, so that we can send it to Saudi Arabia for us to make sure that the body is here by the weekend.
That is fair enough, Mr. Assistant Minister. The Clerk of the National Assembly will ensure that, that is communicated to the hon. Member for Mathioya, so that he will co-operate. Next Question by the hon. Member for Marakwet West. DELAYED RELEASE OF FUNDS TO CHEBARA SECONDARY SCHOOL BY MINISTRY OF EDUCATION
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that compensation funds from the Treasury through the Ministry of Water and Irrigation earmarked for Chebara Secondary School and other institutions in Marakwet West Constituency have not been released by the Ministry of Education? (b) Is the Minister further aware that the contractors on site have stopped construction works due to non-payment? (c) What urgent measures will the Minister take to ensure that Kshs.189,000,000 received from the Ministry of Water and Irrigation for construction of educational institutions in Chebara town is released to the institutions?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that compensation funds from the Ministry of Water and Irrigation for Chebara institutions forwarded to the Ministry of Education for onward transmission are yet to be fully released to the institutions as envisaged. So far, Kshs117,812,471.60 has been released. This has been occasioned by the disbursement formula earlier agreed between the management of the said institutions and the Ministry, where the release was to be in tranches upon submission of certificates on the progress of works on the side which was to form the basis of replenishing the school accounts. (b) I am not aware that the contractors on site have stopped construction works for non-payment. (c) The requisite paper work for authority to release the funds by the Treasury is in progress. As a matter of fact, they are done. The Ministry will, therefore, disburse the entire outstanding amount totaling to Kshs.182,187,528.40 to Chebara Secondary School’s infrastructure account No.1128202239 or once the Treasury avails the funds. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am surprised. The Assistant Minister is not even aware that the contractors at Chebara have stopped working. The money in question was not meant for the Ministry of Education. It was supposed to transmit the money directly to Chebara institutions. This is actually compensation money. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministry had promised to keep this money under a suspense account, so that whenever the money is needed, then it is posted to the schools’ accounts. But today the money has been transferred to other developments by the Ministry. Could the Ministry come up with definite dates as to when this money will be released? The Treasurer has already availed the money---
Order, hon. Kaino! Your question is already asked!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my duty is to prepare the papers and give them to the Ministry which will release the money. My papers are ready. I hope that if the Treasury has money, the school will get all its money by next week. I already said that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister confirm the assertion of the hon. Member that his Ministry already received the money, but they have used it for other purposes and he is now looking for money at the Treasury? If he has not, then he must undertake to get the money from Treasury and tell us by what date.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know of that assertion. If the Member of Parliament has documents to prove, let him table them. As far as I know, the money lies with the Treasury. We provide the papers and the Treasury then releases the money. I am not aware of money belonging to Chebara Secondary School that was put to other use. The balance is within the Treasury. The paper work, which is already done, was with us. So, let us wait for the money. It will come.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this country, infrastructure is still a challenge to most institutions. It should be the work of the Ministry to ensure that whenever there is money, it reaches the schools. When did the Assistant Minister receive this money? Very importantly, could he confirm that by next week, he will actually ensure that the money is in school?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I repeat that my paper work is ready and---
Order, Assistant Minister! Please, resume your seat for a moment. Listening from where I sit, you were asked two questions although it should have been one question. However, you must answer the questions that you have been asked. The first part asked you when you received the money. The second part asked you: “Could you confirm that the money will be released next week?” So, you cannot repeat! Just say when you received the money and confirm whether or not the money will be released next week. That way, you will have answered the question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the money was supposed to be released to the school by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. But that Ministry agreed with my Ministry that the money would be released through the Ministry of Education from the Treasury. So far, the money that Treasury has given us has been released to the school. The Ministry is still retaining the amount that I have indicated which will be released immediately the Treasury gets our papers which are already prepared. We are giving the Ministry the papers by tomorrow so that the Treasury avails the money if it has it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am perturbed by the misleading information from the Assistant Minister. He is not even equipped with the answers. I stand here to say the truth that all the money had been sent by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation to the Ministry of Education, so that it sends it to institutions in Marakwet. Instead of this, they used the money. The contractors have now been stopped the works. Could he tell us when the money will be released? This is because the money is there!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me give a brief background of this issue. The Chebara institutions which include the secondary school were displaced because of the construction of the dam. The agreement between the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and the institutions is that a total of Kshs635 million should be given to the Chebara institutions which include the secondary school and other institutions around. This money is to be given out as compensation. However, so far, the only amount that was agreed between the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and my Ministry is Kshs300 million. Now, Kshs335 million was not negotiated with my Ministry. As of now, we have agreed with the Ministry of Water and Irrigation that the remaining Kshs335 million be channeled by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation directly to the institutions and not through the Ministry of Education. After all, it was the Ministry of Water and Irrigation that created disturbance to the Chebara institutions and not the Ministry of Education. So, the remaining Kshs335 million will go directly to the Chebara institutions from the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. We are in charge of the remaining Kshs182,187,528.40 and we have prepared the papers. The Treasury will release the money to Chebara institutions. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I have done my job.
Fair enough, Assistant Minister. I have heard you. I direct that so that this matter is dealt with the requisite finality this Question should appear again on the Order Paper 21 days from today for you to confirm that the money has been released. That will be the position.
, on behalf of
, asked the Minister of State for Public Service: (a) If he is aware that there are many pharmaceutical technologists who have not been employed to-date; and (b) what plans the Government has to find employment for these technologists. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Chanzu is away on official duty.
Do you have challenges with the Dispatch Box? Maybe the Serjeant-at-Arms will want to assist you. I do not have control of that one. I am dispatching the Serjeant-at-Arms to assist you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the scheme of service for pharmaceutical technologists is administered by the Ministry of Medical Services. We requested for the necessary information to answer this Question adequately from the Ministry of Medical Services and we received the answer this morning at 9.00 a.m., which I felt that it was unsatisfactory. I, therefore, request that this Question appears on the Order Paper next week, so that I can give an answer that should be adequate as required by the hon. Member.
Member for Emuhaya, are you comfortable if we defer this Question? The Minister says that he requires time to get the information.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with the Minister that this is a very important Question touching on a very highly specialized field. I will be very happy if he comes up with a very comprehensive answer, so that this House can appreciate the importance of this specialized training.
So, in those circumstances, I direct that the Question stands deferred to Thursday afternoon, next week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Roads the following Question by Private Notice: (a) Could the Minister confirm that the National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) has stopped the construction of Thogoto-Mutarakwa Road? (b) Why was the commencement of works allowed without the Environmental Impact Assessment Licence? (c) What measures is the Ministry taking to ensure that the road is motorable for use by residents of Ndeiya in Limuru; and could the Minister consider compensating the contractor for delayed works arising from the stoppage of works?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the construction of this road started in 2000 before I became Member of Parliament. This road is from Thogoto to Limuru. It was never deemed to have Phase I and Phase II. Secondly, the road was done half way. About 15 kilometres of it was tarmacked. If that certificate was given by NEMA, I do not see why he has to get another one unless he is saying his officers were incompetent and they advised the construction of that road commences without NEMA’s approval. If that is the case, he must tell this House how he will deal with the loss of public funds by way of delay of those works.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the hon. Member that the construction of that road started that far. I also want to inform him that at that particular period in time, the Ministry of Roads as directed by this House was undergoing institutional reforms. In the process, the issue was overlooked to submit an Environmental Impact Assessment report that had been prepared. That caused the delay in the construction of the section of the road. Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, it may not have been Phase I and Phase II, but I want to indicate that financial resources also control the extent a contract can go in the construction of a road.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House that the Ministry was undergoing institutional reforms whereas the issue of roads has been there? There is nothing about construction of roads and the NEMA requirements that required institutional reforms. This is simply a procedure. I have been in that Ministry and even before I left, it was just a procedure. So, you cannot say that your officers forgot because you were undergoing institutional reforms. I think he is misleading this House.
Order, Member for Limuru!
Is he in order to mislead this House?
Fair enough! Minister, would you want to respond?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a fact that it happened that way, but I did not know that hon. Mwathi was in that Ministry. He may also have an idea of what really happened. What I have stated is the fact that in 2008, there was a lot of movement in the Ministry in the sense of trying to comply with instructions by this House to strengthen authorities, so that they be efficient and effective in the construction of our roads.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in these institutions, we appear to increase the bureaucratic red tape in development projects. Could the Minister explain to us whether it is mandatory, therefore, for the respective institutions under the Ministry of Roads to get NEMA certificates for every development even where the road previously existed? Do
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Member. There is a requirement that every construction of a road must receive a licence from NEMA. Even for a road which is being maintained, they must obtain a NEMA licence all the time for the simple reason, which they give, that climate change and topographical issues are changing every time. That is a requirement which we have to contend with. We have even started some works late because of having to wait for licences from NEMA.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel a bit bothered by the answer given by the Minister. In part (b), he has said that it was a continuation of phase one. He also says that his officers forgot to submit the environmental impact assessment report. There is a letter from NEMA which says, in part, that the Ministry was advised. It says that:- “---without undertaking environmental impact assessment as required by law despite our earlier improvement notice”. Did the Ministry intentionally refuse to submit the report as advised by NEMA?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was no such action on our part. We would wish that these construction works on our roads are done expeditiously, but we have to comply with requirements of other Government departments, lest we are stopped from working the same way we have been stopped by NEMA.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 13th September this year, in answer to a Question regarding the same project, the Minister stated, having heard my request, that he was going to send a team of engineers to inspect, confirm and ensure that they restored confidence in the public. The usage of the section of the road which is currently not usable would be restored. He said this in this House. To this day, no officers have come and the section that he referred to is not passable. That means that the residents of Ndeiya, whole division, cannot get to the main road. What urgent measures is he going to take to restore the usage of that section? It should be passable immediately!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I undertake to check what happened after I gave out those instructions earlier on. I seek the indulgence of the House for hon. Mwathi to meet me tomorrow in my office, so that we can address this matter together. Indeed, I sympathize with the users of that road and I want to be part and parcel of a solution to it, so that the Member can also be comfortable.
Hon. Mwathi, I am sure that is music to your ears. Please, be in the Minister’s office tomorrow at the time that is convenient to both of you, so that you can get this road done.
asked the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that NEMA granted Bedford Bio-fuels an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) licence for a 10,000 hectare Jatropha plantation pilot project in Kitangale Ranch in Tana Delta. The EIA licence was granted on condition that the project was going to be implemented on a pilot basis, and that NEMA, in consultation with the Technical Advisory Committee constituted to advise on the project, would monitor its implementation. (b) I am further aware that the East African Wildlife Society appealed against the decision by NEMA. However, they were advised to put up their case with the National Environmental Tribunal (NET) for redress as required by the law. (c) The Standards Enforcement and Review Committee (SERC), which was convened on 21st October, 2011, and chaired by the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources, approved the cancellation of the licence. It has since been established that NEMA has not effected the cancellation of the licence, citing Section 28(2) of the Environmental (Impact Assessment and Audit) Regulations 2003. The Ministry is now reviewing the matter and the appropriate measures to effect the cancellation are being taken.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first allow me to thank the Minister for having taken a very decisive decision to have the cancellation of this licence. Having said that, I want to know why the cancellation has not been effected given the fact that NEMA is under this Ministry. It is the one that is supposed to cancel the licence and the Standards Enforcement and Review Committee has proposed the same.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the law is very clear that the Standards Enforcement and Review Committee has no powers to cancel a decision of that nature made by NEMA. However, a complainant may forward complaints to the National Environment Tribunal for redress. That has not been done. However, I have personally intervened to ensure that this is done and, in the process, effect cancellation as desired.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Minister tell the House why NEMA that is supposed to be in charge of protecting the environment gives licences contrary to advice and, therefore, forces members to resort to tribunal action?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a process that must be followed before NEMA grants a licence. It appears that the company that applied to do the Jatropha project in Tana Delta, namely Bedford Bio-fuels, applied and the due process was followed. In fact, people were invited to give their comments and views. The public and the civil society organizations raised concerns and a lot of examples were given citing potential negative impacts on the environment, loss of biodiversity and inadequate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a feeling that the Minister is being too economical with the truth and information. Could he confirm that the report which was produced by the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) on the strength of which their purported licence was given, had an advice that the licence could not be given and that it was corrupt NEMA officials who gave the licence contrary to the recommendations of the committee and the report that it purports the licence was given?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of the allegations that are now being exposed to me by the hon. Member for Bura. However, the bottom line is to have this licence cancelled. We have other very good reasons to ensure that the licence is cancelled and that is being put into effect by my Ministry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for being honest and for giving real facts concerning this project. What I need him to confirm to this House is when he is going to cancel the licence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, ---
Order, Minister! Minister, will you resume your seat for a moment? Hon. Dr. Noah Wekesa, I have given directions on this matter repeatedly that those hon. Members who wish to consult with their colleagues may sit next to them or withdraw to the Speaker’s Chambers at my back to consult. So, please comply. Also, hon. Shakeel should do the same.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to confirm that cancellation of the licence will be effected before the expiry of my term of office as the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources under the Tenth Parliament.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you see hon. Dr. Noah Wekesa come across, then cross back again to the other side? Is he in order? You said he should have gone back to the Bar at the door to bow and then cross.
Order! Hon. Noah Wekesa, if that happened, you are out of order. So, you will have to go through the motions. Go through the motions on what it takes for you to move from one side of the House to the other.
Hon. Dr. Wekesa, you will now go to your left. Go to your left first. We want to train you.
Go and sit next to hon. David Musila. Proceed, hon. Dr. Wekesa. Do not take it lightly.
Thank you, hon. Dr. Wekesa. Can you now make your way to go and see hon. Cheruiyot?
Thank you, hon. Dr. Wekesa, and well done.
Next Question by hon. Mwaita.
asked the Attorney-General:- (a) whether he is aware that the new Constitution advocates for the use of Alternative Dispute Resolution in settlement of disputes and if he could clarify whether the accreditation of the mediators and arbitrators is done in the United Kingdom through the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (Kenya branch); (b) whether he is also aware that the UK Chartered Institute of Arbitrators is frustrating Kenyans who want to be mediators and arbitrators since only less than 500 persons have been approved as members of the United Kingdom Chartered Institute of Arbitrators since 1984;
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am indeed aware that the new Constitution advocates for the use of alternative dispute resolution in the settlement of disputes. Indeed in exercising judicial authority, courts and tribunals are obliged to observe the guiding principle set out in Article 159 of the Constitution. On the issue of accreditation of mediators, I wish to state that in this country, their accreditation is carried out through the Accreditation Committee which is, a committee appointed by the hon. Chief Justice under Section 59(a) of the Civil Procedure Act as amended by this Parliament earlier this year in the Statute Law Miscellaneous (Amendment) Act, 2012. The composition of the accreditation committee includes the chairman of the rules committee, one member nominated by the Attorney-General, two members nominated by the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) and eight members nominated by the following bodies:- (i) The Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, Kenya Section, (ii) The Kenya Private Sector Alliance, (iii) The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), (iv) The Institute of Certified Public Accountants, (v) The Institute of Certified Public Secretaries, (vi) The Kenya Bankers Association, (vii) The Federation of Kenya Employers (FKE); and, (viii) The Central Organization of Trade Unions (COTU) Mr. Speaker, Sir, the accreditation of arbitrators is governed by the Arbitration Act, Act No.5 of 1995 and in taking into account the provisions of Article 159 of the Constitution and those of the Arbitration Act, any arbitration including one done under the traditional justice system are recognized as valid arbitrations under Kenyan law. This means, therefore, that for someone to be recognized as an arbitrator in Kenya, he or she does not have to be accredited in the United Kingdom. The LSK, the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, the Arbitrators Society of Kenya and many other organisations are able to appoint arbitrators who carry out valid arbitrations in Kenya and indeed in the region. Parties are free to appoint arbitrators of their choice. These arbitrators do not have to belong to any organization and no accreditation is necessary. The Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, Kenya Branch, offers training in mediation, arbitration and other alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. The Institute maintains a list of persons who have passed the examination offered by the Institute. Membership categories include associate member, member, fellow and chartered arbitrator status. I am aware, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that you are one of the members of this institute and it is my privilege to be a member alongside you and alongside other distinguished members like the hon. John Olago Alouch.
Mr. Attorney-General, before I call Mr. Mwaita, I just want to thank you for that citation and recognition as extended to the three of us, including yourself. Perhaps to add that we are available to all hon. Members if they want services.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to, first, thank the Attorney-General for a very detailed and comprehensive answer which fits the bill. In his part “c” of the answer, he says the UK approves courses and examinations to be taken locally when we have over five or seven universities in this country. Why do we have to get our examinations approved in the UK 50 years after Independence?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the simple answer is that the qualifications awarded by this institute are qualifications of the UK institute. I think it is true of many other professions, including in accountancy, law, engineering and architecture, you can be a locally trained professional who may chose to take a foreign certified qualification. Unfortunately, you have to take that examination as it is set by the mother institution. What I think the hon. Member, however, has alluded to which is very significant and my office would like to work with him and other like-minded people in the future, is that we ought to develop a local competent certification board of our own. We can do that with our regional partners in the community. I will take up that challenge.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just going to ask the same last part of it, but also to say that I am proud to be an associate of the CIArb for quite some time. However, I would like the Attorney-General to be specific on when he can make the ground suitable because what he has referred to like the legal profession or accounts, we have the ACC and then we have our local bodies. What are the timelines to make it necessary for this to be achieved, so that we can have the local examination body here for those who want to do it here and those who want to be accredited internationally can continue having what is going on now?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I accept the challenge and when we are debating the Nairobi International Arbitration Centre, among the other considerations, we will have in the Legal Committee and elsewhere we will debate the Bill is whether we need to amend the Arbitration Act itself and provide within it a certification mechanism for mediators or arbitrators, so that we obviate for locals to take a foreign qualification in order to be recognized as professionals in this area.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Mr. Mwaita for bringing up this issue about arbitration and reconciliation and thank the Attorney-General for a very well researched answer to this Question and for recognizing himself, you and me as premier members of this Society. It must have been noticed by hon. Members that those who are properly qualified and experienced in arbitration approach the issues of conflict with level-headedness. It is a course that I would recommend for all Members of this House. This is because if we do that, then we would be able to resolve some of these conflicts that we have between regions and constituencies. Therefore, in those circumstances for the sake of Mr. Mwaita and those who might wish to know, when is the ground going to be open for any Member of this House who may wish to apply for examinations to be members of the Kenya Chapter of the CIArb?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a matter of fact, a majority of members of the CIArb of Kenya are not lawyers. I think quantity surveyors and architects predominate the institute. I have found in my own experience, they make very good arbitrators because they are methodical, purposeful and they work with deadlines which cannot always be said of the honourable profession of lawyers. We will open a dialogue with the institute along the line suggested by the hon. Member and I hope to return with a confirmation by the institute before the House breaks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no further question.
Very well! Well done, Mr. Attorney-General; you did well.
asked the Minister for Education:- (a) how many public schools are in Mombasa County and how many inspectors of schools are in the county; and, (b) when the Minister will increase the number of the inspectors in the county.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister says there are 124 public schools and six quality assurance and standard officers in Mombasa County. This is one of the reasons for poor performance by public schools in that country. Could he tell us when the last officer was employed among the six whom he has just mentioned?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have that information with me. The hon. Member wanted to know the number of officers we have in the county. With regard to when they were employed or deployed, I need to consult further to get the personal files and know the data.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I remember about two years ago, I asked a similar Question about increment of zonal and quality assurance officers and the answer was similar to the one which has been given now. It said that they are working on a structure and once it is ready, they will be able to employ officers and services would improve. It is even worse in some areas like in my constituency where we have about 200 schools with only six officers. How long will the Minister take to finish this restructuring and employ inspectors of schools because it looks like an excuse so that hon. Members can be satisfied?
Order, hon. Member for Kitui South. You know it is Question Time and we have allowed you some latitude but now you are carrying it too far.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the structure we have been working on is included in the Education Bill which is currently before this House. Across the country - for the benefit of my colleagues - we have a shortage of officers just like we have a shortage of teachers because of inadequate financial support to hire officers. As a matter of fact, we are supposed to have 1,696 quality assurance officers in the country but currently, we only have 866 for the whole country. We do not have enough money to hire officers.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has just informed the House that there are six Quality Assurance Officers. How are these six capacitated by the Ministry to reach the 124 schools in that region?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not get the number of vehicles they have but at least each district has a vehicle. But just like other Ministries, we do not have enough vehicles although we try to manage the resources we have and we give them on the ground.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is trying to avoid my earlier question. The purpose was to know about the officer we had received last year. Does the Ministry recognize and employ the nursery teachers who are teaching Early Childhood Education (ECD) so that we could have better education standards in Mombasa? They should have a programme which will recognize and employ the nursery teachers in Mombasa County.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my wish is to employ ECD teachers because we are mainstreaming ECD in our policy. In the last financial year, we employed ECD
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) what plans the Ministry has to supply water to residents of Wamba town and its environs, construct Lorok Onyokie Pan Dam in Lorok Onyokie Sub-location and drill the Koiting borehole in Koiting Sub-location. (b) when the project will be undertaken and commissioned for use.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry, through the Northern Water Services Board, will rehabilitate the Wamba Water Supply and equip two new boreholes to replace the community borehole. Additional streams will be tapped from the ranch to boost the Wamba Water Supply. This would add the water supply to 168 cubic metres per day. The project is funded by the World Bank and the Water Supply and Sanitation Improvement Project where Kshs36,500,000 has been earmarked for the works. The project is at a tender stage and would be implemented in the current financial year, 2012/2013. My Ministry, through the Northern Water Service Board, has designed the Lerok/Onyokie Pan Dam with a capacity of 10,000 cubic metres which would cost Kshs16, 000,000 which will also be implemented during this current financial year. This would serve the residents of Koting Sub-location and my Ministry through the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation would also equip the borehole at a cost of Kshs6,000,000 in the current financial year. (b)The above project would be completed and commissioned this financial year.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for that answer. My only concern is about Wamba Water Supply. I have had the opportunity to look at the design in the Minister’s office and the position is that the current water production is 138 cubic metres of water per day and yet the demand is 1,004 cubic metres per day. Now, will Kshs36.5 million be sufficient to meet the demand for water in Wamba Town?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that the current water supply for Wamba is way below what it should be providing. We are in the process of designing a bigger water programme and project for Wamba Town. In fact, I had the opportunity to visit the place with the hon. Member and these are the plans that we have already put in place in the Ministry. So, I will have just to ensure that this is done a little faster so that the Wamba community can get safe drinking water.
Last Question, Mr. Letimalo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that this project has been earmarked for implementation this financial year, is she able to state when exactly the project will take off?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the resources are already available, it is possible to put a lot more pressure on our engineers and the people who are supposed to be implementing it so that it is done a little faster. It should be completed even before the end of the financial year.
Next Question, Member for Ikolomani!
NON-ISSUANCE OF FIREARM CERTIFICATE TO MR. MICHAEL O. OLE KIRUSUA The Member for Ikolomani is not in? The Question is dropped.
asked the Minister for Medical Services: (a) whether he is aware that Mr. Patrick Njau was taken to Kerugoya District Hospital complaining of severe headache on 29th July, 2012; (b) whether he is further aware that his condition worsened on 30th July when the family was asked to pay Kshs3,500 for his transport to Mathari Medical Institute for a head scan but later passed away on the same day before transfer to the medical institute; and, (c) what action he is taking against the management of the hospital to avoid a recurrence of similar incident and if he could consider compensating the bereaved family for negligence by the hospital management.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to answer. (a) I am aware that Patrick Njau Murugo aged 49 years from Getua Village, Marua, was admitted to Kerugoya District Hospital on 30th July, 2012 at 2.10 a.m., with complaints of headache, fever and a swollen left hand. (b) I am also aware that his condition worsened later that day and after review by a physician, a CT scan was ordered but the patient died before the procedure could be done. (c) No action is being taken against the hospital management neither is it necessary to compensate the bereaved family as the death was not as a result of negligence.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to thank the Minister for the brief answer. However, I would like him to confirm to this House whether the relatives of the deceased like Pastor Gathira were told by the management of the hospital to make sure that they pay Kshs10,000 to arrange for the deceased - before he died - to be
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of the conversation between the relatives and the hospital officers in that regard. What I know is that the patient died as a result of suspected contamination by anthrax. He was reported to have slaughtered a dead animal one week before admission and the symptoms leading to his death were very good indication that the possibility of an anthrax infection could not be ruled out. After that, the conversation that led to the relatives believing that he could be transferred to Nairobi was overtaken by events because he died before anything could be done to that effect.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of patients dying in the hands of doctors and nurses as a result of negligence is a worrying concern. The Minister knows that I have been having two running cases regarding Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) where, clearly, some amount of negligence is evident from the way the patients were handled and yet no action, apparently, has been taken. Could the Minister confirm or deny that the attitude of people at his Ministry is making many Kenyans die because doctors know that whether they kill people or not, no action will be taken against them?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is neither the tradition nor the practice of doctors to kill. It is the training and commitment of medical professionals to save life. However, we should know that it is God who gives life in the final analysis. Where there are cases of suspicion of negligence, there is proper procedure followed in the Ministry to the effect that the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board receives reports from such health facilities. The Board meticulously follows such reports and hearings are heard to ensure that those who accuse health facilities of negligence are properly attended to. The process of reviewing such cases must be meticulous and sometimes take a long time. However, this is because both parties must be listened to; first, the health professionals being put under question and secondly---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister should realize that some of these questions are very personal to us because they involve negligent killing of relatives. How can he say that the Board is meticulous when he knows that for two years, I have raised the case of my brother with him and the Board has not even contacted me? These cases are personal and the Minister cannot come here and invoke the name of God when the doctors are negligent.
Order, the Member for Rarieda! I know that you are fairly passionate about that. It is a valid point of order except the method you have adopted to prosecute it. However, the Minister has got the gist that he is misleading the House when, in fact, the Member for Rarieda has a live case which fits that category of professional negligence. He has cited it to you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the substantive Question I am answering is from Kerugoya. However, if, indeed, the hon. Member wants to bring a substantive Question regarding his case, I can answer it after receiving relevant documentation from the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. I would not like to answer a question on guess work. I have told you and the House that---
Order, Mr. Minister! The way you are going about your answer does not fit within our practice and rules. The Member for Rarieda raised a valid point of order; whether or not you are in order to mislead the House that this case does not amount to professional negligence, whereas there is a case he cited of his brother in which the facts are almost similar and it amounted to professional negligence. So, Mr. Minister, your answer would simply have been, from what you have said that you are not aware unless a specific Question is brought. The rest of the story you are telling is unnecessary.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought I was being helpful but if, indeed, I am not being helpful, then I am not aware.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, the Member for Rarieda! You will not speak to me from your sitting position but I will give you an opportunity to raise your point of order. Tread carefully!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Minister in order to say that he is not aware of that case when I have written to him more than four letters? This is a----
Order, the Member for Rarieda! The Minister is in order to say that he is not aware. You cannot force the Minister to give the answer that you want or the response that you want. If you want to challenge the Minister, then table those letters that you have written to him. That is the only way I can moderate in a situation like this or even the Members of the House can be aware that the Minister is misleading the House. Do you have those letters?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can you give me up to tomorrow morning to bring those letters here?
Fair enough! I will. We can let this Question reappear on the Order Paper on Tuesday and we want you to come with those letters.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, most of our medical practitioners are doing a good job in this country, but the Minister should be aware that there could be some errant ones. When a Question like this one is raised, what the Minister does is to ask the same personnel to give him answers. Mr. Waziri, what other avenues do you use to get information so that you are able to guide and correct mistakes where they occur?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the only avenue I can use is the health professionals themselves; the Questions asked are specific to specific health institutions where health services are delivered. It will be unprofessional, on my part, to seek information from any other person other than from the medical practitioner, who performed either an operation or was involved in a case. It will be hearsay to involve other parties who are not professionally qualified to deal with life.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, looking at the answer the Minister has given, I wanted to ask whether he can accompany me to Kerugoya where the incident happened to get the fact that these people were asked to pay and they paid by 1.30 a.m. They were promised that the patient was to be transferred to Mathari Hospital by 3.00 a.m. But at 3.30 a.m., they were told that it was a bit late for them to transport the patient and that patient died that same day. Could the Minister accompany me to Kerugoya to get these facts on the spot?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, the relatives made a request for the patient to be taken to either Mathari Mental Hospital or Nyeri Provincial General Hospital for a CT scan. But by the time the relatives were ready for the patient to be taken for a CT scan, he was unstable and could not be transported to these places for a CT scan. It would have been professional negligence to transport a patient over that distance; he was already too unstable to be transported from one facility to another. It was unfortunate that the patient died, but he was already in such a condition that he could not be transported from one facility to another. Those are the facts as they are.
Order, Minister ! I am satisfied, Member for Kirinyaga Central, that this Question is adequately answered; all the requisite ventilation has been permitted, as indeed, it should. But I will defer the Question to 10 days away from today for the Member for Rarieda to table his documents; that is the only aspect of the Question that you may have to deal with, namely the point of order raised by the Member for Rarieda; however relevant it will be, Minister, it will be up to you to determine how best you will want to deal with it.
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) how much money has been allocated to Simbara-Kamatongu Water Project since 2002; (b) whether she could indicate the specific activities the money was intended for; and, (c) whether these activities have been carried out efficiently and effectively by the people implementing the project.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry together with International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) allocated and spent Kshs19,276,530 in the implementation of Simbara- Kamatongu Water Project since 2002. (b) The specific activities the money was intended for included construction of intake, procurement of pipes and fittings, both GI and UPVC, construction of storage pressure tanks, construction of anchor blocks, pillars, valve chambers, thrust blocks and also repair of pipelines. (c) Certainly, it could have been better but due to poor community participation in the project not all the activities were carried out as efficiently and effectively by the people implementing the project as would have been expected. However, my Ministry, through the District Water Office, has carried forensic audit of the remaining works which will now be completed within this financial year. Already funds have been set aside for this purpose.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me thank the Minister for coming up with such a good answer but I have one question. Could she in future channel money intended for water projects through the MP’s office? As we have all heard, there must be some money which has been misused?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the only Exchequer funds that are channeled through Members of Parliament office is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Since we do not have a policy to channel funds through Members of Parliament offices, we will continue using the channels that we have been using until things are changed by this House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want the Minister to tell us exactly when the works for this project will resume.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the works will resume immediately, and we will make sure that they are completed soon. I know Kieni is a water scarce constituency, and I would ensure that the work is done expeditiously.
(a) whether he is aware that there is no road connecting Lower Yatta, Kisasi and Mbitini districts, (b) what plans the Ministry has to construct a road from Kavisuni and Maliku to Mbitini through Kisasi; and, (c) when the Ministry will construct a bridge to link Kawongo in Lower Yatta to Maliku in Kisasi District.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware that there is no road connecting Lower Yatta, Kisasi and Mbitini districts because I think there is a connection. (b) My Ministry will consider construction of a road from Kavisuni and Maliku to Mbitini through Kisasai as maybe prioritized by the Constituency Roads Committee in their work plan. (c) My Ministry has undertaken a structures inventory for construction and rehabilitation works within this region and the estimated cost to construct a drift to link Kawongo in Lower Yatta, to Maliku in Kisasi is Kshs15 million. I want to inform the Member that Kitui West Constituency Roads Committee should prioritize this drift for funding.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence just to say one word before I ask the specific question.
If you do not overdo it, yes I would permit it, otherwise, no.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the roads I am talking about are roads connecting two districts; one district was formerly Lower Yatta, but which is in Kitui West, and the other district is in Kisasi, which is in Kitui Central. These places have been combined to make Kitui Rural Constituency. So, as we discuss this, please, note that there is currently no Constituency Roads Committee which can do what he wants to do.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, I agree that one consideration in devolution is road connectivity because it is important for delivery of farm produce and other items from the main industrial sector to the farms. I also agree with the hon. Member when he says that the CRC money available may not be able to do that construction. I am simply asking the hon. Member to place that particular road in the work plan at CRC so that we may pick it up from there to give additional funding from a relevant source in the Ministry. Otherwise, we cannot look at it until they prioritize it themselves. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also aware that there are some roads which are linking up this area like Road E720 from Kavisyuini Lower Yatta District through Kawagongo to Mandongoi E511 which is 28 kilometres. There is also another road D511 connecting Mandongoi to Kavisyuini which is two kilometres. There is also another road which is Road D732 connecting Kavisyuini D511 to Kisasi District headquarters which is 20 kilometres. The only difficulty I see is the issue of CRC funding and I share the hon. Member’s view regarding that. I would want him to prioritize at least one of the roads and we sit together to see how we can fund that road.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this constituency is actually formed by three districts. So, in effect, there were no roads interlinking it. Between the Lower Yatta and the other two districts, there is Thiba River which is actually a bigger river with a very big span. Could the Minister ask the Regional Manager the possibility of opening that area, so that he can use his special funds to do so because none of the CRCs can handle the opening of that constituency?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will do that but I would want the CRC in that constituency to prioritize this particular road and bridge in their work plan. It is out of the workplan that they submit to us after prioritizing that we will work on it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for his willingness to assist. In view of the fact that the CRCs have already submitted their workplans for next year to the Ministry and these roads were not considered, how do you want us to do it? What kind of framework do you have in mind?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am available for amendment of the workplan. So, if any hon. Member has submitted to us a workplan for next year and they would wish the same to be amended for this reason or the other, I want to say we are available for such amendments.
asked the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife:-
Mr. Speaker, Sir, after signing this answer, I have received information from the ground which suggests that there is need for us to do more investigation. Therefore, the House should allow me one week to get more information regarding this Question because the answer is very unsatisfactory. I have discussed this with the Member for Kuresoi and I think we concur.
Member for Kuresoi can you confirm your concurrence?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, I have consulted and I see signs of the donkey curse in the answer. I agree the Minister can give us a better answer.
Very well! In those circumstances, the Question is deferred to Wednesday next week.
Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Order No.6. Next Order!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order to bring to your attention a matter which I think is of grave national importance, which has been alluded to by the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. I think this matter will have a bearing on how this country wishes to implement this Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has alluded to the fact that the National Security Council, using the provisions of the Constitution, particular Article 243(3)(b), which says that the Military can be used in times of emergency and disaster to aid other Government departments during such calamities or disasters. It is important for you to guide this nation. Was what happened in Baragoi a disaster of the nature alluded to in the Constitution or is the article which was relevant to that the one that follows which says that the Military can be used to restore peace only with the approval of Parliament? It is very important because I see nowhere in the Constitution where the military can go on combat internally without the approval of this Parliament. The Minister has even confirmed that the Military was there offering aerial support, which is combat. It is important and imperative that you make a ruling, because what has just happened in Baragoi and Garissa for that matter, opens a window where any rogue individual will get the military to the streets to fight helpless Kenyans. It is important and crucial because I think it is against the United Nations (UN) Convention for any country to use the Military on its own people. I seek your guidance before the Minister continues with this Statement. I think this Statement is based on wrong interpretation of the Constitution or it is meant to clean a wrong or it is meant to open a window where the military will be used, including the time of elections wherever there are skirmishes, to stop Kenyans from electing their leaders. I say this because of the experiences of 2007 and looking forward to 4th March, 2013. I say this also because word is in the air that there are a few people in this country who say that change shall not come in this country. They are saying: “Hook or crooks, even if it means bullets.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, you must guide this country.
Fair enough, the Member for Gem. You are also our Chief Parliamentary Whip. I will be prepared to give directions, but first, by slip of the tongue, I think you have used a word that I will want you to withdraw, so that we expunge it from the record. You have said: “By hook or”--- You said something else there. I want you to withdraw the word that preceded “hook.”
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw it.
So, I direct that the word be expunged forthwith from the record. We will leave “hook or crook.” Thank you, the Member for Gem for that understanding. Hon. Members, I understand the concern by the Member for Gem. Indeed, it raises very serious issues. I will certainly want to give directions on that matter. At the moment, I will not want to take further contribution on that aspect. I will, obviously, want to give directions on that matter, but, the Member for Gem, our practice is such that if a Minister wishes to give a Ministerial Statement, he or she is at liberty to do so. But as to whether or not he can use that Ministerial Statement to justify breach of the Constitution is an important matter on which I will give directions as, indeed, I am under duty to do.
Order, Mr. Minister! In that case, are you withdrawing the word “deploy” because I heard you clearly from where I sit?
Mr. Minister, I will want you to carry on and conclude your Statement and I will allow interventions. I will give directions after those interventions to which you will be expected to respond.
Mr. ole Metito): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just concluding. The following arrests have been made, one councillor, two chiefs, two assistant chiefs, two teachers and two Kenya Police Reservists (KPRs). Lastly, I wish to take this opportunity to assure Kenyans that the security agencies, with the help of the military aerial surveillance, are doing everything possible to arrest the bandits and have them arraigned in a court of law and recover the Government firearms. This operation is targeting criminals and not innocent citizens or a particular community. Thus, the members of the public should volunteer information on the perpetrators, financiers of rustling and persons illegally holding firearms.
Hon. Members, I will allow some interventions in this matter. Because of the gravity of it, we may have to go beyond the standard five, but we will do so in batches of five. We want to begin with the Member for Ndhiwa. Minister, please take notes and follow very carefully.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, looking at the ages of the young police officers who died, most of them were under 25 years of age. Why would you deploy or send such young inexperienced police officers to a terrible rugged terrain such as the Suguta Valley? These were young boys who did not have a lot of experience in terms of dealing with cattle rustling and the complex security issues of that particular region.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for the comprehensive response. He has indicated that they are not targeting any ethnic community. Could he give the ethnicity of the persons who have been arrested if there is no ethnic profiling?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me start by sending condolences to the two families whose bread earners perished in this incident. Could the Minister inform the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for the comprehensive Statement. It seems we are just dealing with the symptoms of the insecurity crisis in the Republic of Kenya. I do not want to go to the merits and the demerits of the deployment. I would have asked the Minister, first of all, to avail copies of his written Statement, because that is what we would have believed in, but since you assisted, I do not want to take that route. This country has different security sectors and the KDF is one component. We have the police and within the police we have the GSU, the Rapid Response Unit, the Kenya Police Reservists, the Administration Police and the Anti-Stock Theft Unit. What measures has the Government put in place as a result of this sad incident? It is clear that our police officers are demoralized because of the many years of neglect. What are we doing to revamp our Police Force, so that in future we do not resort to the Army, which should be used as a last resort, to do policing activities? What are we doing in terms of equipping the police, raising their morale, re-training them and about their many years’ delayed allowances like risk allowances? We know that because we live in this country what has happened has not happened along any Kenyan border, but inside Kenya. What has happened to the intelligence? Was this not known to the intelligence entity in the Republic of Kenya? Why did the Government not detect that there were criminal elements who were out to cause havoc within the communities of Kenya?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has said in his Statement that the raid took place on 19th October, 2012 and it was not until 9th November that security officers were deployed to recover the stolen animals. Why did it take that long before the security personnel pursued the stolen animals? Secondly, the intention of the security operation being carried out is to apprehend the bandits and recover the stolen animals. Could the Minister tell us whether any progress has been made in respect of the recovery of the stolen animals and equipment?
Minister, will you make your responses to that set and we will take the next one?
Mr. ole Metito): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to start with hon. Oyugi’s concern. He asked why the officers who were less than 25 years old and inexperienced were deployed. There will be a recruitment exercise for police officers tomorrow across the whole country and everybody has seen that the minimum age requirement is 18 years. I believe that the 25 year old officers have met the requisite age to join the police service. Secondly, in terms of experience, it takes the police 15 months to undergo the training. I want to assure this House that it was not the experience which was lacking. I want to give an example here. We had a similar problem in Tana River. The police officers who had just graduated--- After the official pass out, they headed to Tana River. They were 1,600. From that day, no life was lost and no attack was made again in Tana River. That tells you that it is not a must for you to be experienced to go for your duties. It is just that the terrain was terrible in Suguta Valley or Baragoi; two, there was an ambush on these officers. It was a trap. It is very difficult, however experienced you are, to get out of an ambush.
We will take the next five beginning with hon. Ethuro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I want to thank the Minister with a heavy heart for attempting to come to this House and explain certain things. However, you realize he was trying to edit his own report and this is the problem when we do not
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what we are seeing in these particular raids and infighting in the country is just a tip of the iceberg on what is going to happen in this country in the future. Unless this country comes up with a marshall plan to address the issue of the youth and trained personnel who are retired or who were fired from the armed forces like the army, navy, air force and the police, so as to create a way by which these people are integrated into society through training and allocating funds for them to start businesses--- The way you look at the fighting, killing and ambush of trained people, it was not done by local Turkanas or Samburus, it was by trained people who have retired because they are idling at home. Nobody identifies them. So, could the Government take some trouble to carry out a census of all retirees and call them and talk to them, counsel them, train them and provide them with revenue so that they are busy? Look at the issue of Eastleigh, for example. We have a lot of youth who have been trained by the Al Shabaab in Somalia. Now, they are back here. They are causing havoc because nobody recognizes them.
Order, hon. Konchella! There is a point of order by hon. Kimunya.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard hon. Konchella allege that the ambush is attributable to retired officers who have served in the various commissions in this country. Is he in order to attribute these heinous acts to officers who have diligently served this country and have retired? Is he in order to actually blame them for this ambush unless he has any evidence he can table here to show that this ambush was actually conducted by retired officers of the various disciplined forces in this country?
Hon. Konchella, press “intervene”. Make your response, hon. Konchella.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to respond to hon. Kimunya, I only sympathise that he does not know what he is talking about.
In a nutshell--- Hon. Konchella, please resume your seat for a moment.
Hon. Konchella, in a nutshell, hon. Kimunya has asked you to substantiate your assertion if you made that assertion, because I did not hear it in those terms. If your claim was that the insecurity has been caused by retired officers then hon. Kimunya has asked you to substantiate that assertion. Are you able to substantiate?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will educate the Minister before I am asked to substantiate. I can advise him that under---
Order, Mr. Konchella! Once again, resume your seat. Is it your contention that the insecurity is being caused by retired officers? Is that your assertion?
Order, Mr. Konchella! There is something that we must get clear for the purpose of the record. This is a Parliament of record. Are you, therefore, now saying that you do not agree with Mr. Kimunya who is also the Minister for Transport, that you have claimed insecurity is being caused by retired officers, we want to be clear? If that is your assertion, then applying our Standing Orders, you are under duty to substantiate. If it is not, it is a different matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to guide the Minister on possible ways of trying to address the problem.
Do not guide the Minister. I have asked you to repeat what you said to the House. Was it your assertion that the insecurity is being caused by retired officers?
My answer is no, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
That was not your assertion?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Okay; in that case you may proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am addressing the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, not the Minister for matatus . So let me just address the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security.
Order, Mr. Konchella! That part you will have to withdraw. Please, concentrate on your core business which is to interrogate the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. Will you please withdraw “the Minister for matatus ”? I do not think that is relevant. Withdraw and apologise.
I withdraw and apologize to my friend and former Secretary- General. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point here is that I would like the Government to be serious on what I am saying because we are creating a big problem for this country, if we do not address the issue of our youngsters who are leaving the services fully trained on how to use firearms and on maneuvers in the battle field. We need to rehabilitate them into society so that this country can be safe. I see myself as somebody who is properly trained.
Fair enough; we will take Mr. Midiwo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I await your directions on the other matter, I wish to seek clarification from the Minister over this issue because in the media and in public domain, it has been explained that a meeting to plan this raid was done by the district security committee. The media goes further to say that chiefs were invited to that meeting. My clarification that I would like to get from the Minister---
Order, Mr. Midiwo! Before you proceed, what media are you quoting bearing in mind the provisions of the Standing Orders?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I saw specifically on Citizen TV yesterday morning and as they said the meeting which decided this raid--- It was Citizen TV, Mr. Mutegi Njau in particular.
Then you may proceed, I am satisfied.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this meeting, chiefs were called to listen to the planning of this meeting. Why did somebody not think that the chiefs would go and warn the Turkanas on the impeding raid and the revelation that there was a plan? Why would the Government go to a heavily militarized area with recruits? If it was planned, why did they not get enough firepower to protect their own lives? Why do it with reservists, first of all? Why do it with only one senior officer? Could it also be confirmed, therefore, that somebody was setting up this massacre to happen? The chiefs knew they would go back and warn people to get ready and that they did not send enough troops as per rules of any combat.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the outset, I want to ask you and Parliament to rise to the occasion on the massacre that has taken place in Garissa. Parliament has an oversight role. I want you to listen to the death, destruction and cries. As I speak here, the chief of Modika has died; a staff of the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security was killed by the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) under his own colleague, Mr. Haji. I want you to live to that expectation. I want him to clarify to the nation---
Order, Mr. Duale! That part where you are naming Mr. Haji, I am afraid, that you have to withdraw and apologize because it cannot stand the test of the Standing Orders.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to withdraw and apologize, but I will rephrase it that the chief of Modika died one hour ago from gunshots, a chief who is a staff of the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security was killed by the KDF who are under the Minister of State for Defence and the Commander- in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kenya. I want the Minister to confirm to the nation---
Order, Mr. Duale! You know the Standing Orders that I have drawn your attention to say that you cannot impute an improper motive on a Member of the House unless you bring a substantive Motion. That is where I was. So when you say you name Mr. Haji as being in charge of an operation that resulted in the death of a chief or you turn it round and say Minister of State for Defence, obviously, it does not make the difference. So withdraw that part, apologize and proceed. Address what is relevant now; what is on the Floor much as you have my sympathy as a Kenyan and as a leader in this country. Indeed, I will condone with the family of a chief if a chief is dead, but do not mix matters. You understand? This is a very sensitive matter. We must address it with sobriety even if it is emotional as it might be. We are the leaders of this country. Proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize and withdraw, but I want it to go on record that the chief of Modika has been killed by the KDF. That is a fact. The Minister of State for Defence went to my constituency, visited the people who were shot by the KDF, the chief being one of them. The matter is bigger than sympathy. The matter is of great national interest. We, as leaders, will not sit down when our own constituents and voters are being butchered. Our towns are being destroyed by the KDF.
Order, Mr. Duale! Emotional as you may be, you must stick to the rules. If you want to discuss Mr. Haji or the Minister of State for Defence, for that matter, bring a substantive Motion and I will allow it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will even go further and bring a substantive Motion against the Government of Kenya over the death of our people. I promise you that.
That would be within the rules.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I promise that we will bring a substantive Motion against this Government over the death of our people. I want the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security to confirm to the nation that there is a Provincial Security Committee based in Garissa, there is a District Security Committee based in Garissa and the law provides that for any operation to take place, the concurrence of those two committees must be sought. I want the Minister to confirm to the country whether the death, destruction, killing, raping and the looting by the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) in Garissa was sought from the committee. If so, he should table the minutes.
Fair enough! I will take the hon. Member for Kuresoi as the last one in that group.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to tell the House who planned this operation and what his or her state of mind was. Are they normal people to send people to Suguta Valley? We would like to know.
Fair enough! Minister, you will speak to those. Hon. Members, in view of where we are, we will do another five and that will be it because we have a further Ministerial Statement tomorrow which I think will be issued by the Minister of State for Defence. That is a Statement sought by the hon. Member for Lagdera and it is coming tomorrow afternoon. Proceed, Mr. Minister!
We will take the last five beginning with the hon. Member for Eldoret North.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in sending my condolences to the families of citizens including our security personnel who have lost their lives in the last three months. I appreciate the Minister’s position very much. He has mentioned about raids and for a very long time we have had a country where children do not go to school. Many lives have been lost. I was in Suguta about a month and a half ago, at Nachoda, the very place where this happened. There are many children in that region who are not going to school because of cattle rustling and insecurity. There are no teachers in schools and there is no business going on. It is just mayhem. The question I want to ask the Minister and the Government is: When, how and what strategy does the Government have to stop this menace of cattle rustling that is taking this country backwards? When the Minister says casually that “this community is raiding the other or the other village is raiding another village” it looks very casual and looks like business as usual. When is this going to stop being business as usual? Does the Minister sincerely believe that we must rein in the cattle rustlers so that we can allow the children in this area to go to school, citizens to live as the rest of the country and contribute in turning around this economy? Mr. Speaker, Sir, we vote a lot of money for this Ministry which is responsible for security. What is the Minister doing for Kenyans to get value for that money? What is he doing so that we open up security purchases whether they are hardware or software to competitive bidding so that this country can supervise the use of colossal amounts of money that we put in our security docket that I am afraid we are not getting value for? What is the Minister doing because we keep complaining?
Order, hon. Member for Eldoret North! You also have to stay within the rules. You have used the words “what is the Minister doing” four times. I have allowed latitude but you know you must stay within the rules. You have to avoid being repetitive.
I will, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In the Constitution, Section 240, under the establishment of the National Security Council, the Constitution clearly mandates all security agencies to work in tandem and integrate their activities. The Minister must begin to think outside the box and ensure that rather than waiting until they carry out an operation when the act has already happened, he should be thinking of how to get all our security personnel, military and policemen included and properly integrated in securing this country. He should not use security agencies to go and beat up innocent citizens when the action has already happened. What has the Minister done to make sure that those security personnel, whether they are the military or the police are integrated in a way that they can multi-task? Whenever we need the services of our military personnel, it should be possible for the Minister, at the slightest of instructions, to mobilize all our security agencies and hardware to protect the citizens of this country. What we are witnessing is unacceptable and it must not be business as usual until we sort this out. Mr. Minister, what are you doing?
Order, the Member for Eldoret North! Your point is made. Do not belabour it. I want to take the Member for Naivasha.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I start by condoling all the families and relatives of those who have died in this most unfortunate situation. How long will the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security take to
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had waited for too long until I decided to switch off my equipment.
If you have switched off your equipment, I will give the chance to another hon. Member.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to say that cattle rustling is something that has been recurring many times as admitted by the Minister. The objective of the operation is to recover stolen animals and to disarm people. It is quite clear that disarmament has never been successful and it will never be successful in this country. What has the Minister done to address the critical issues that compel these communities to engage in cattle rustling activities which, in this case, are neglect in terms of development? What has the Minister also done to provide the necessary economic infrastructure on the ground to dissuade these cattle rustlers from engaging in futile and vicious activities that take their communities nowhere and instead engage in productive ventures?
Order, the Member for Mount Elgon! Up to where you are, examining yourself very consciously, how different is your issue from what the Member for Eldoret North raised? Honestly, let us use our time optimally!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, honestly, that is why I switched off the microphone, but because you gave me the microphone again, I had to make a point.
Order, the Member for Mount Elgon! If your point of order is already spent, then you leave it and give the opportunity to other hon. Members. I could see that you were still making a request. Yes, Mrs. Shebesh!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister was probably part of the rest of Kenyans who watched the interviews that were going on in search of the Inspector General of Police. One of the interviewees who happens to be the spokesman of the Police, Mr. Kiraithe, clearly said that as far as he knows, that was not an operation of the police. That was a statement that shocked Kenyans because that was the Police spokesman who spoke. Could the Minister clarify that what Mr. Kiraithe said is true; that the operation in Baragoi was not an operation of the police as was said by the Police spokesman?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In the past, there has been a question in this Parliament on the use of electronic devices that are planted in the rumen of cattle that can be used to track down stolen animals. This has been used in the past in countries like Swaziland successfully. When will the Minister implement that so that we can track down stolen animals?
And finally, the Member for Rangwe!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Of late, I have heard of several applications being directed to you to join certain parties. I have seen that you have been very generous to the TNA - URP Group.
Order, the Member for Rangwe! That is completely unwarranted.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise.
If you want us to take that line, I am afraid, I will ask you to do much more. However, I am glad that you have apologized.
And I withdraw, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Thank you. Proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to Article 240 of the Constitution, the National Security Council comprises of the President, the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Defence and Internal Security which the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security occupies. The Chairman of the National Security Council is the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces. I believe that the Commander-in-Chief commands the Defence Forces. When the Minister says that the Kenya Defence Forces were asked to help, I do not know what command would come in the language of: “Can you, kindly assist?” That is not a command. So, I do not know how the Minister will wriggle out of this but I believe that a resolution of the National Security Council to the KDF to take up certain assignments is deployment. But more fundamentally is the fact that of late, there has been a tendency to invite the military to every internal insecurity situation. This was the case in Tana River, Baragoi and Garissa. We are fast approaching the General Election. What has the Minister done, in his capacity as the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, to ensure that the internal insecurity situation is left in the hands of internal security organs so that the country gets demilitarized in readiness for the General Election so that we do not get into the elections with the military all over the country?
Minister, please make your responses.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will start from hon. Ogindo. I want to put the record straight that there was no military intervention in Tana River. It was not also invited in what happened in Garissa. That is very clear. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the clarification sought by hon. Munyaka and hon. Mututho is the same. It is an issue of using technology. I would agree fully with them that with technology a job that is manually done by 600 officers can be done by a group of not more than ten officers. This just calls for resources and you will need armoured vehicles. You will also need a lot of specialized equipment. This brings me to what hon. Samoei was asking in terms of whether we are getting value for money. I want to respond by saying that this Ministry is not given a lot of money. I appeared before a Parliamentary committee yesterday and I informed the Committee that security agencies are under-funded by 48 per cent of the required budget. We requested for Kshs125 billion this financial year but we were only allocated Kshs65 billion. That is slightly more than a half, 52 per cent. So, the much the security officers are doing with respect to police services is actually their best given the available resources that they are given. I want to make a kind appeal to this House, as we go to the Supplementary Estimates that is coming before the end of the life of this House---- We are now approaching the general election. Surely, even if we have to stop doing one road, I kindly request that enough resources be allocated to the security agencies to be able to deal with this heightened tension as we approach the general election. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to respond to my good friend hon. William Samoei and actually tell him that I am not casual when I say one community raids the other. I want to make it very clear that I am a pastoralist 100 per cent, pastoralist No.1. This is to
Hon. Nanok, I see you want to rise on a point of order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a point of information to the Minister.
Minister, do you want information from your colleague, Assistant Minister? You have the liberty; it is either yes or no.
Very well. What is it hon. William Ruto?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate what the Minister is saying and agree with him that he does not entertain cattle rustling in his region, there is cattle rustling going on in Kenya. That is what we are concerned about. I asked him a very direct question, value for money. Why is it that even to buy a Land Rover to be used by our security men, it is a security budget? What is so secretive about buying a car for the police? That is the question we are asking. That is how we pay more than we should for very simple things. So, I am asking him, when are security hardware and software going to be subjected to the supervision of this House in terms of competitive bidding, so that Kenyans can get value for the money they spend, and so that he can even have the moral authority to ask for more money?
Fair enough, Minister you apparently have not responded to that request for clarification. Please do so.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I meant by saying I do not entertain cattle rustling is that I mean serious business in looking for ways to end cattle rustling in Kenya. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of motor vehicles, let me inform this House that the police require 4000 motor vehicles as per the Ransley Report. But what is provided for in a financial year is only 200 motor vehicles. We have in these country 290 districts. We have 180 OCPDs. Now, every district--- Take for instance the District Security Committee that comprises of not less than five officers, a District Commissioner (DC), an Officer Commanding Police Division (OCPD), an intelligence officer and the officer in charge of the Administration Police (AP). So, a minimum of five vehicles in one district, times 290 districts gives you 1000 plus vehicles. But what they are given in a year are 200 vehicles. So, it is not the issue of procurement that is difficult. It is first of all the money to buy the vehicles required.
What is it Member for Turkana Central?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought the Minister should not get away with this one. He says he is a pastoralist but the county he comes from does not engage in cattle rustling. I just wish to contradict you. His own Assistant Minister--- In fact, the hon. Member for Samburu West, hon. Lesrima, who has no problem with both communities in his constituency, is at the centre of this business. The hon. John Munyes, Minister for Labour---
Order, Member for Turkana Central! We have to get you clear. When you say the hon. Lesrima, the Assistant Minister in the Office of the President is at the centre of cattle rustling, what are you saying? Otherwise, you will be in breach of the Standing Orders? You have the Floor but I do not see your request.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I meant, with utmost respect to the hon. Lesrima, that he is not the agent or the perpetrator of cattle rustling. But cattle rustling, especially what we are taking about in Baragoi is happening in his constituency. That is what I meant.
That is clearer. Okay, carry on.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for according me the opportunity to clarify on this good man.
It would have gone down very badly.
This one I can confirm. I wanted to confirm further the hon. John Munyes, Minister for Labour, in fact is being sought by the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) because of cattle rustling. The hon. Samuel Phoghisio, Minister for Information and Communications, cannot even communicate because of cattle rustling where he comes from; hon. Assistant Minister for Forestry and Wildlife, Mr. Nanok, cannot have peace. He was just released today from the court because of cattle rustling. Is it in order for the hon. Minister to mislead this House by saying just because Ministers come from certain counties, they cannot engage in cattle rustling? This problem is bigger than mere Ministers.
Minister, do you want to respond to that? Yes, Proceed.
What is it hon. Odhiambo-Mabona? I see you want to rise on a point of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I know the hon. Minister has the right to seek consultation, I am just wondering whether it is in order in a matter of this magnitude for him to be getting consistent directions and guidance from hon. Kimunya. When his own colleague asked to give information, hon. Kimunya told him to say “no” and he said “no”. We are watching from here. He is
Minister, maybe, you want to respond to that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my colleague and I here are the ones who actually pressed the button first and we have not been given the opportunity---
Order, Member for Nyakach! You do not have the capacity to know who presses the button first unless you want to replay our system before you can make that assertion. So, I am afraid you will have to withdraw that contention.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to apologize and I want to thank you very much for taking my consideration. For the last five years, I have lost 15 people in my constituency because of this menace. When policemen are killed in Baragoi, the Government readily sends its military people to go and deal with the rustlers down there. What I wonder is whether this country has intelligence officers or are they posted just to trail politicians and not to track down the rustlers in every place that they attack? Has the intelligence gone to sleep? Did they pass this information before this mayhem happened in Baragoi? Secondly, does the Modagashe rule still apply and when does it apply?
Minister, you may respond and I am afraid at this rate, I do not see the requests for points of order being accurate because you are not living within the letter and spirit of the rules. So, that will be the last one Minister.
Order! Proceed, Minister. I want you to complete this.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had wanted to know whether this particular incident that happened in Baragoi was properly passed on to them and if it was, what action they took. Secondly, I asked whether the Modagashe rule still applies when---
They know. They are security people and they know.
The Minister wants you to explain. So, can you kindly do so?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may not guide him because he knows and that is why he is there.
Order! I am directing you as the Speaker to explain what Modagashe rule means.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Modagashe rule applies when animals are taken from one particular community to another community, the security forces go, trail those animals and bring them back. If they are not able to bring back the same animals, they get animals from the other community until the other ones are availed.
Fair enough! Minister, you may now respond.
You see I have been affected so I know all these things.
Fair enough! Member for Nyakach, this matter has to come to an end and, indeed, it is now. Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Statements which were due. If there are any other Statements we will take them tomorrow. But we will take a request for a Statement. I think there is one that I approved this afternoon. Hon. Member for Eldama Ravine, yours is not yet approved. Member for Turkana Central, you may proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a simple one just to ask the Minister for Finance when he will release more money to the CDF as he had promised this House.
Hon. Amos Kimunya, Deputy Leader of Government Business, when will this be forthcoming?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will communicate to the Minister. This is a fairly straight forward matter and we can get a response to this tomorrow afternoon.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to again apologize to you for that out of line statement that I made.
Fair enough! I have taken it in my stride and I have accepted the apology. Perhaps what you may want to do is go and look at the HANSARD and take the statistics, work percentages of what you believe are parliamentary political parties as participated in the business this afternoon. Perhaps, you will be satisfied that I was very fair. There is an explanation for why I called hon. Shebesh before I called you. Trust me as the Speaker that I do my work very diligently. I was aware that there is need for gender balance, gender parity and so I called her before you. She had to have priority before you because otherwise the lady hon. Members were marginalized.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought you would be issuing a clarification on the Minister’s reference to Article 243(3)(b) as a basis for deployment of the army. Further, it was reinforced by Mr. Ethuro that we need to clarify what is an emergency and what is a disaster and also so that for the purposes of implementation of this Constitution, we know when and how to deploy the military. It could have been ignorance or mischief but I think you need to guide us because I think it is important and you had promised so.
Yes, indeed, I am aware that I made that commitment and I will give directions on Wednesday next week. This is a constitutional matter. Allow me time also to look at my books; Wednesday next week at 2.30 p.m. We want to move to the next Order.
Who was on the Floor? Mrs. Odhiambo you have 18 minutes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had indicated concerns before we rose about education standards at the university. I had also given general comments. I just want to look at specific clauses in the Bill. I will refer the Minister to Clause 13. I will bring an amendment for one of the standards that need to be included. The standards provided under Clause 13 should relate to infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is also provision for degrees, including honorary degrees. Again, I will indicate that we need to provide for standards, especially for degrees. This is because nowadays, we have provided for standards for certain degrees. There is information that people get degrees after two or three months. That is unfair because there are people who have to study for years to get those degrees. So, it is not in order for others to get degrees in six or four months. If it is possible for everybody to get degrees in six months, then we should all be told that it is part of accreditation so that all of us can very quickly get degrees in six months. But we should not have a privileged few who get their degrees in six months. Again, in the clause that also talks about accreditation, I will also move an amendment that provides that the public must be informed about accredited universities to avoid wastage of resources. This is because I know several people who have attended universities for three years and after they have completed, they are told that, that university is not accredited. This is the case and yet the university has been mounting courses with the knowledge and information of the Government of Kenya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to congratulate the Minister for Higher Education, Science and Technology. This is a very timely Bill. For the first time, we are going to have a comprehensive way of dealing with university education. The Minister’s staff has done a commendable job; in particular they are aligning everything, namely the standards and the manner of getting a charter. I know that there are at least 15 universities waiting for charters and this will be the most exciting news for those who have been pleading to have this law in place, so that they can get charters. Among them is the Kisii Constituent College. I have been pleading on behalf of not just that university, but it is just a specific one that I am very keen about, understandably. The other thing that I wish to mention is that we should get universities in all the 47 counties. Sometimes it is lost that a university creates employment and other opportunities like businesses. Many cities have grown from university environment. So, it will be a useful thing if we aim, as a Government, to establish universities in each of the counties. It would also help stimulate economic activities in the counties and give them
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill. We have been longing, especially as a Committee, to see this very important transformation in our higher education. This Bill is addressing so many challenges that we have faced in our universities. One very pertinent thing that this Bill contemplates is to have one Act in place of so many Acts that we have. For the information of the House, currently, we have eight different Acts for eight different universities. Therefore, the management of universities varies from one to the other. This Bill will bring harmony and ensure that issues of university education are addressed from one point. Very fundamentally is the quality of education in our universities. We must all agree that we, as Kenya, are not doing very well in the ranking internationally. We, as a country, must endeavour to ensure that our universities competitively compete with other universities internationally. One thing this Bill is addressing is the issue of the Commission for Higher Education whose successor, in this case, will be the Commission for University Education. As I speak now, it has only been in charge of private universities. Our public universities have been independent. Their programmes have not been subject to approval by this very important Commission. The functions of this Commission are critical to the extent that all our universities programmes should be approved by it. One of the functions of the Commission as provided for under Clause 5(1)(c) is to promote quality of university education. That is an
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Bill and I also congratulate the Minister for this excellent work. In examining the history of this country, education has been and perhaps continues to be the number one filter that is used to stratify society in various ways. If you were to look at the number of children in Class 8 and then compare that to those who make it to Form Four and then compare that to those who get to university, you would see a very sharp pyramid. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in colonial times, in my reading of history, it was never intended that many of us Africans should rise to the top of the social apex. In those old days, access to university in my view had been restricted. Therefore, there is this move to standardize the management of the universities. There have been calls that we provide a university in every county. I support these calls because education is the only certain way of transforming society. All of us hon. Members would not have been here if it were not for education. Therefore, we must aspire to get the highest possible level of education for our people. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to point to two specific improvements on university objectives. We all know universities are agents of social change in our society. So, I would like to see a specific objective directing or encouraging universities to have an outreach or extension like in many other universities in the world. If you look at the role of Silicon Valley and the Stanford University and other institutions play in development of their country, is lacking in our universities. For example, a university in Maralal must specialize in the management of rangelands. A university in rural Laikipia, for example, must come up with programmes aimed at improving farming. It must help us to train agricultural extension officers in order for us to improve our produce. I urge each university to establish an extension department. For example, ICT is a key component for the development of this country. We should see many universities providing specialization in software development, in writing applications for mobile phones or for any smart gadget that may come about. So, before a university is granted a charter, it must state which area it will specialize in. It is important to encourage universities to specialize in specific fields if we want to develop this country. Another area of concern is engineering. Today we have an estimated 6,000 engineers in the country. About half of them are registered with the Engineers
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want, first of all, to thank the Ministry, the task force that was involved in drafting this Bill and all the key stakeholders who took a lot of time to discuss it. I also want to thank all those key stakeholders who made our Committee and gave very good proposals on how to make this Bill much better. I want to thank all of them. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a Bill that will completely revolutionize our university education. It is a Bill that will focus our university education to the socio-economic needs of this country. Therefore, I want to say that the Ministry has done a commendable job. We want to ensure that this Bill goes through as soon as possible. Since a lot has been said about this Bill, I do not want to go through the Articles in it, but I want to say that it is a Bill that is timely. We should support it and have it enacted as law before the life of the Tenth Parliament ends. This Bill will bring sanity in our university education. Therefore, I want to support it wholeheartedly.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to add my voice to this Bill by requesting the Minister to consider that all examinations are carried by the university as it used to be with the Cambridge University. Ultimately, the universities are the consumers of these students. The onus will be on them to have quality examinations. That would also be a cost saving measure and will help avoid all the problems we have with examinations at the moment. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would request that all those who are holding degrees like Mr. John Mututho here, get checked again to determine whether they are genuine degrees of just pieces of papers. My admission number, declaring interest is 1517/80 of the University of Nairobi. This is for clarity so that everybody can be encouraged to check their own degrees they hold and also check against their own portfolios.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to this Universities Bill. I want to support it because it
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would also like to join my colleagues by saying that this is a very important time to have such an important Bill. I just want to add three points. One, before A-Levels were abolished, we had pre-university/National Youth in-take, but it was not well structured. Although the competencies of the people who trained those students were not well thought out, the idea of having a pre-university/National Youth Service in-take was an excellent one. We all come from various counties and various cultural and ethnic backgrounds. It was at that time that those interactions and patriotism was inculcated. You will realize that most graduates do not know our national days. They do not know the meaning of Kenyatta Day or the Heroes Day. They do not know the meaning of Jamhuri Day. They also do not know the history of our country. It is very important that we inculcate patriotism, good virtues and good values in our young people. The good values can be inculcated to fight even corruption. I would like to propose a pre-university/National Youth Service intake. The young people should also be posted to work in various parts of the country where they do not come from. For example, people from Nyeri should go and work in Kisumu while those from Kisumu should go and work in Wajir. People from Wajir should go and work in Meru, so that at that early stage, the young people can know the various geographic compositions of our country, ethnicity and productivity, so that it does not appear strange when somebody is posted to Wajir. This will make them appreciate one another. This is will minimize ethnic practices and cultures that bedevil us; the elite and the political class. I would also like to congratulate the Minister for the special universities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are at a discovery point. Our country is endowed with a lot of minerals and those specialized universities will be able to bring out experts, who will then be able to deal with those special blessings that God has given us such as oil, minerals and the rest.
Order, Members! Since there is no more interest, I will call upon the Mover to reply.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all I want to take this opportunity to really thank all the Members for their very encouraging and radical recommendations on this Bill. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Committee of hon. Koech for the support they have given us all through. I also want to thank the taskforce for doing a wonderful job; we had several forums with them and they came up with very transformative issues that will actually change our education sector for quite some time to come. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank our support staff, technical officers from the Legal Department, technical departments, all of them for a job well done. We are going to respond to all the issues; we will make sure that all the issues are addressed. Since we have to use the time of the House optimally, I just want to use just two minutes, then I can handover to my next colleague. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of accreditation will no longer take three or six months. We really have to mean business and we must conform to the requirements of the new Commission. We will take into consideration having a university in every county; a country like--- I was privileged to go to Cuba with our Speaker. A country like Cuba, which is the size of Turkana County, has more than 200 universities. I think we need a university in every county. Recognition of universities will be addressed. The issue of scholarships, we know that poverty in this country is very high. Most families live in abject penury. So, we need to assist the children to get the best of education. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of appointment of chancellors, we will make sure that this is highly competitive. Also, the issue of appointment of the chancellors that one of the Members mentioned, I want to confirm to you that everything that is done in our Ministry is done in accordance with the law. We have to be within the beacons. We do not flout the law. The letter of interim authority is given after thorough scrutiny of the facilities that are available in a university. So, we really conform to the best of requirements. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, lastly, we will still address the other outstanding issues with our Committee. There is the issue of pre-university national youth service. That is a priority; you all know that this is what inculcates patriotism, matters of charity, and matters of children feeling that they really belong to this country. So, we really support that and we will find a way of meeting the kind of request made With those many remarks, I beg to move. Thank you Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to move.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Agriculture, Livestock, Fisheries and Food Authority Bill, Bill No.61 of 2012 be now read a Second Time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have arrived at this juncture after these Bills have been considered for nine years. In the last two years, we have intensified the consultations. In these consultations were the Ministries of Agriculture, the Attorney- General, Kenya Law Commission and the Constitutional Implementation Commission. It therefore, makes absolutely no sense to have some of the circulars that are going around the House alleging unconstitutionality. We took care of that. Let me say at the outset that we have listened and the Ministry of Livestock Development is not happy. There are also people who have intervened. We have met them at the Committee Stage and the Chairman of the Committee can confirm this. We have, therefore, withdrawn any reference to livestock in our Bill. We should, therefore, be allowed to streamline the Ministry of Agriculture in keeping with the Constitution that requires that we do this now. We have, therefore, without any fear of contradiction, done this to make sure that Kenyans are well served. However, the Bill which is before the House, as usual and in keeping with parliamentary practice---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I seek your guidance on this. Listening to the Minister, she is talking of having a Bill which is aligning issues with the new Constitution. Our Constitution contemplates 22 Ministries. Looking at the three Ministries, Ministry of Agriculture, Ministry of Livestock Development and Ministry of Fisheries Development, all these will be lumped together. I seek your guidance on this that this Bill seeks to remove the Ministry of Livestock Development as a Ministry.
Order, Mr. Koech! The Chair has not understood you.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, maybe I should put it this way: The Minister seems to be contradicting herself in the sense that she is talking of aligning the Ministries to the new Constitution and the new Constitution contemplates that these Ministries as put here are supposed to be one Ministry. So, by removing livestock is she really aligning the Ministry to the new Constitution? We need that clarification.
I think it is clearer now. I am sure even the Minister has understood you. Initially, it was a bit muddled up.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I understood him from the beginning. There has been vehement opposition to aligning and the accusations that perhaps people are seeking wider, larger areas to administer. I am happy to exit from the Cabinet when we go to elections and be a Backbencher, if I am lucky to be elected. This was simply to streamline, but since the Ministry responsible for
Hon. Minister, if the proposed Bill is to align Ministries according to the Constitution and that was part of your preamble, then how do you disentangle one Ministry from the rest? I am sure the House requires that explanation as sought by hon. Koech. It should not just be a matter of Dr. Kosgei, the Minister for Agriculture and Dr. Kuti, the Minister for Livestock Development deciding that each of them should keep their turf. I thought that there should be another mechanism of resolving it. Dr. Kuti, you are requesting to be allowed to contribute, but you cannot contribute. You should be on a point of order, although I do not know whether you want to contradict your colleague. Let us have the Minister for Agriculture first!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have the fauna and flora. We want to align the laws governing the flora with the Constitution. It is my understanding that the Ministry of Livestock will have the opportunity to align the section that deals with livestock with the Constitution. I think they have the capability to do so. So, may I beg the House again, recognizing the fact that the Bill is the property of the House and the House can choose what to do with it--- I still feel that to make progress for us and avoid the angst that has come up constantly in the media, which we know where it is fueled from, and has made its way here--- We are very clear about the laws on agriculture as far as farming is concerned and are anxious to align this with the Constitution, so that when we get round to the counties next year, we shall not be found wanting. I am sure that whoever will be the Chief Executive will, indeed, choose how to put those Ministries together. For us, it is the laws that we seek to change. If there is more time, we will explain to you why we are changing. We will not touch the laws that involve livestock. This is to avoid the problems that we face. We are capable of doing the ones that govern our agricultural sector, as far as that section that has to do with crops and agriculture, outside of livestock is concerned. That is all we seek to do. We have changed the title, which we have done at the Committee, to exclude livestock because the Committee and that Ministry will be responsible for the livestock sector. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I go on?
Proceed, hon. Minister!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have our justification for this. Many of the current laws in our books are archaic. Let me give you three examples, if I have time. I will do the rest tomorrow. One is that natives, being us, cannot sell eggs after 6.00 p.m. There are many like that. We cannot say, 50 years after Independence, that we do not have this in our rules.
Order hon. Minister! You will proceed when this matter will be on the Order Paper
Hon. Members, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 22nd November, 2012, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.